Sexist hiring of staff.

lkionm

***UPDATE***

They posted it again with a new picture. A guy leaning over backwards with one girl on the bar in a belly top and one to the side of him in a belly top as well showing off her bra and her top goes below the bottom of her cleavage.

He is in a whit T shirt being fed whiskey from the bottle.

Steve O

Madam_X wrote: »

Doubt the girl who gets hired is gonna be useless at bar-work.

My post was an attempt at poking fun at the ridiculousness of gender quota policies. You should be hired based on skill not gender.

I'll admit that the clarity of my post...is quite poor.

lkionm

Madam_X wrote: »

Doubt the girl who gets hired is gonna be useless at bar-work.

My point is what if there is a guy who is better and has more experience and dosent get the job because she has boobs.

maxfresh

Stupid sexy barmaids

HondaSami

lkionm wrote: »

My point is what if there is a guy who is better and has more experience and dosent get the job because she has boobs.

More experience does not always mean better at the job. I have seen some barmen/women who are useless at chatting to the customer.
Barwork is something you can learn, if you have the right personality you really cannot go wrong.

Madam_X

Steve O wrote: »

My post was an attempt at poking fun at the ridiculousness of gender quota policies. You should be hired based on skill not gender.

lkionm wrote: »

My point is what if there is a guy who is better and has more experience and dosent get the job because she has boobs.

Yeh but they're obviously hiring her because they want a sexy chick at the bar, which could help increase customers, mostly male. So it's not discrimination for the sake of it - there is a practicality to it.
They're not just gonna be hiring any woman who's good at bar-work either - she'll have to be good-looking with big boobs, probably long hair and a great figure, so it could be argued that that's further discrimination against plain, short-haired, flat-chested, fat/thin women.
It's a business decision, not a political one.

Rabies

Steve O wrote: »

My post was an attempt at poking fun at the ridiculousness of gender quota policies. You should be hired based on skill not gender.

I'll admit that the clarity of my post...is quite poor.

*puts on serious hat*

We live in a world where people fight gender equality in roles.
The simple fact is its often not good business practice. Some roles are more physical, others require a certain level of compassion and other times we the customer like to look at a nice piece of eye candy. Be that male of female depending on the role.

I have been in the situation where I've had the option to hire two females or one male.
Knowing the girls will get a slightly better spend per head from the customers but not be able to work as hard as fast. Or hire one guy, but I know he can churn out the booze all night long.
Other times hiring all female staff works against you. We are quiet on a monday night in the bar. I'd never leave a girl alone for the last few hours to close, clean up and cash up alone. Just not safe. Will always be a guy for nights like that.

Generally you will find that its not sexist managers stops guys from getting hired in bars. People are often viewed on the levels of attractiveness and how the convey themselves. Most make up stalls are filled with good looking female staff staff, but the majority of them have no problem talking to people in a friendly manner and upselling the products.

To say only girls would be hired in a normal bar is wrong. I bet if a good looking guy went for the role he would get it. Women like a bit of ass behind the bar too and will go there to see it on a night out.

ScumLord

lkionm wrote: »

My point is what if there is a guy who is better and has more experience and dosent get the job because she has boobs.

but if the requirements are boobs then it makes sense to hire a woman.

All you have to do is look at women's magazines to see even women prefer looking at hot chicks.

lkionm

HondaSami wrote: »

More experience does not always mean better at the job. I have seen some barmen/women who are useless at chatting to the customer.
Barwork is something you can learn, if you have the right personality you really cannot go wrong.

yes, experience.


Well its down to the interview on how well you convey those skills to an unskilled job where they will teach you everything anyway.
Being a guy or girl wont matter and having a ''quota'' is strange if I convey my skills better than Mary in the interview and she gets the job.


Ill ask them when they filled the womens positions how many of each got hired.

What would your reaction be if it was 6 boys and 4 girls or vice versa?

A Primal Nut

Madam_X wrote: »

Yeh but they're obviously hiring her because they want a sexy chick at the bar, which could help increase customers, mostly male. So it's not discrimination for the sake of it - there is a practicality to it.
They're not just gonna be hiring any woman who's good at bar-work either - she'll have to be good-looking with big boobs, probably long hair and a great figure, so it could be argued that that's further discrimination against plain, short-haired, flat-chested, fat/thin women.
It's a business decision, not a political one.

I agree with this and I'm fine with what the bar are doing. The problem would be if the roles are reversed and they only wanted men there would be outrage, so it seems a bit hypocritical.

Earthhorse

It's okay to engage in sexist hiring practices as long as you make more money from it.

GLaDOS

Don't bars need a certain amount of staff from both sexes for checking/cleaning toilets?

Rabies

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Don't bars need a certain amount of staff from both sexes for checking/cleaning toilets?

Yup.

You can get a guy to clean the ladies, always make sure a bouncer is by the door though.

HondaSami

lkionm wrote: »

What would your reaction be if it was 6 boys and 4 girls or vice versa?

I would not see anything wrong with it tbh, it's not necessary or practical to have equal amounts of male/female in any job.
The way i see it they are hiring another female but there is male staff also.

Chemical Burn

Super-Rush wrote: »

Their reasons are simple.

Loads of good lookin women behind the bar = more men in the place.

Men will drink a lot more than women = moar money.

I tend to drink in a place that has culture. There is a very nice pub on Wexford Street (Can I say the name here ?? ) selling marvelous world beers and I usually go there. There is also another global beer pub that I frequent that has old men and middle aged women serving there. The server doesn't attract me, and if you are attracted by who is serving then you are a rather dim individual indeed. Those places are usually frequented by a lower species anyway (ie, scum). I hope someone takes this place to the cleaners and puts the fucking bastarding cunts out of business

ahnowbrowncow

HondaSami wrote: »

I would not see anything wrong with it tbh, it's not necessary or practical to have equal amounts of male/female in any job.
The way i see it they are hiring another female but there is male staff also.

So you don't agree with gender quotas?

Chemical Burn

Madam_X wrote: »

Maybe read the post again.

No, it's just how they're wording it. If you look back through their posts you will see that there are not nor were there any male only recruitment drives because the feminists and poxy womens council would get their man boxers in a twist. They had a mixed drive and probably hired mostly girls now they have a girl only drive and it's fucking bastarding bollocks

HondaSami

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

So you don't agree with gender quotas?

Does every job have equal quotas of male/female?

Chemical Burn

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

So you don't agree with gender quotas?

No, no intelligent person or normal person does.

Ilik Urgee

Chemical Burn wrote: »

I tend to drink in a place that has culture. There is a very nice pub on Wexford Street (Can I say the name here ?? ) selling marvelous world beers and I usually go there. There is also another global beer pub that I frequent that has old men and middle aged women serving there. The server doesn't attract me, and if you are attracted by who is serving then you are a rather dim individual indeed. Those places are usually frequented by a lower species anyway (ie, scum). I hope someone takes this place to the cleaners and puts the fucking bastarding cunts out of business

Do these places serve you directly on the horse or will they tether it for you?

ahnowbrowncow

HondaSami wrote: »

Does every job have equal quotas of male/female?

No because it seems they're only implementing gender quotas in well paid jobs (politicians, board of directors) that are dominated by men.

I think they're ridiculous but if you're going to have gender quotas for one job why not them all?

Chemical Burn

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

No because it seems they're only implementing gender quotas in well paying jobs (politicians, board of directors) that are dominated by men.

I think they're ridiculous but if you're going to have gender quotas for one job why not them all?

Jobs must have 30% women minimum .. but if they had only 5% men the feminists wouldn't be complaining then, would they :rolleyes: bunch of hypocrites

lightspeed

Why are people debating if this is right or wrong? I mean it is clearly wrong in my opinion but my opinion is irrelevant as its the law that this is completely illegal.

If the position was advertises as the op stated than this is no more legal than advertising that they are recruiting people to deal drugs or commit fraud.

Ryanair was fined a while ago for advertising that they were looking for young staff as it was deemed ageist.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ryanair-fined-8000-for-ageist-ad-26096114.html

Article 5(2) from the european charter of human rights states the following:
Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited."

The employment equality acts ensure that the above is adhered to in most regard so you should report this to the employment equality authority.

People in this country need to respect the law and accept that they cant discriminate as and when they feel like it just like you cant just assault someone whenever it feels justified to do so.

It amazes me the arrogance of some employers in this country. Seriously try and report this ad, chase it up to see if this bar can be fined and the result published in the media.

Steve O

Rabies wrote: »

*puts on serious hat*

We live in a world where people fight gender equality in roles.
The simple fact is its often not good business practice. Some roles are more physical, others require a certain level of compassion and other times we the customer like to look at a nice piece of eye candy. Be that male of female depending on the role.

I have been in the situation where I've had the option to hire two females or one male.
Knowing the girls will get a slightly better spend per head from the customers but not be able to work as hard as fast. Or hire one guy, but I know he can churn out the booze all night long.
Other times hiring all female staff works against you. We are quiet on a monday night in the bar. I'd never leave a girl alone for the last few hours to close, clean up and cash up alone. Just not safe. Will always be a guy for nights like that.

Generally you will find that its not sexist managers stops guys from getting hired in bars. People are often viewed on the levels of attractiveness and how the convey themselves. Most make up stalls are filled with good looking female staff staff, but the majority of them have no problem talking to people in a friendly manner and upselling the products.

To say only girls would be hired in a normal bar is wrong. I bet if a good looking guy went for the role he would get it. Women like a bit of ass behind the bar too and will go there to see it on a night out.

100% agree with everything you say alright, common sense radiates from this post.

Unfortunately we don't live in a common sense world where this gender quota bollocks is concerned. If you were found out to be hiring a woman or a man purely because they were a woman or a man, you would be in a whole heap of legal shiiiii'. My attempts at being hip aside, uh, what were we talking about?

Steve O

Madam_X wrote: »

Yeh but they're obviously hiring her because they want a sexy chick at the bar, which could help increase customers, mostly male. So it's not discrimination for the sake of it - there is a practicality to it.
They're not just gonna be hiring any woman who's good at bar-work either - she'll have to be good-looking with big boobs, probably long hair and a great figure, so it could be argued that that's further discrimination against plain, short-haired, flat-chested, fat/thin women.
It's a business decision, not a political one.

As I said, I am a big believer in common sense and while I would love all my decisions to be made by my genitals, my legal alarmed brain would be ringing all over the shop.

Dwork

I for one support the hiring of the sexiest staff. I am pro-sexiest. Is there any chance they could narrow it down to Blonde Virgos? If you're going to aim sexy, might as well aim sexiest.

lightspeed

HondaSami wrote: »

I would not see anything wrong with it tbh, it's not necessary or practical to have equal amounts of male/female in any job.
The way i see it they are hiring another female but there is male staff also.

The way you see it does not matter but because it is not compliant with the law to advertise a position for only a particular sex unless there can be justified reasons for doing so.

Chemical Burn

lightspeed wrote: »

The way you see it does not matter but because it is not compliant with the law to advertise a position for only a particular sex unless there can be justified reasons for doing so.

This gentleman here has his head screwed on. Even IF they did have a male only recruitment drive then a female only, it is still sexist. They can't make jobs gender specific without genuine reasons. For example, lady needed to care for elderly ladies' toilet duties in retirement home or vice verse for men. Or female needed for breast exam specialist or gentleman needed for prostate exams.

HondaSami

lightspeed wrote: »

The way you see it does not matter but because it is not compliant with the law to advertise a position for only a particular sex unless there can be justified reasons for doing so.

The op states the guy positions have been filled, the original add was for male and female staff, guys applied and got the job, women applied but the position has not been filled.

WindSock

Yes it is in the sense that everyone in here has stated that the sole purpose to seek a female bartender is not for her ability, but to be objectified.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Chemical Burn

WindSock wrote: »

Yes it is in the sense that everyone in here has stated that the sole purpose to seek a female bartender is not for her ability, but to be objectified.

What really irks me is that this recruitment drive is sexist against gentlemen because females are hired over gentlemen, if the case is highlighted, then females will say "ohh, the women are objectified and ogled yabber, yeabber, yabber". If gentlemen are hired in favor of female applicaants it is still sexist. They are never happy.

If gentlemen were hired to be ogled by females, it wouldn't be sexist. One rule for us and one rule for them.

humbert

HondaSami wrote: »

The op states the guy positions have been filled, the original add was for male and female staff, guys applied and got the job, women applied but the position has not been filled.

I can't see where the OP mentions an original ad (I could have missed it).

Dwork

HondaSami wrote: »

The op states the guy positions have been filled, the original add was for male and female staff, guys applied and got the job, women applied but the position has not been filled.

I for one am all for filling women in certain positions. Sorry, I'll say that again..

stretchdoe

Madam_X wrote: »

Doubt the girl who gets hired is gonna be useless at bar-work.

Perhaps they should hire a girl who is.
I mean, if she's frequently spilling drinks down her top, that may well attract even more men into the bar.
Follows along the same line of logic.

HondaSami

humbert wrote: »

I can't see where the OP mentions an original ad (I could have missed it).

The op did not post the original add so i'm assuming here, ''guy positions have been filled'' does this not mean the job was open to male and female?

humbert

HondaSami wrote: »

The op did not post the original add so i'm assuming here, ''guy positions have been filled'' does this not mean the job was open to male and female?

Not exactly. It might, but it would remain true if there were no guy positions at all or they haven't hired a guy in ten years. Even then we're taking their word for it.

Annasopra

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

yes it's sexist but it's their business and i'm sure they have their reasons
no harm

it's illegal

WindSock

Chemical Burn wrote: »

What really irks me is that this recruitment drive is sexist against gentlemen because females are hired over gentlemen, if the case is highlighted, then females will say "ohh, the women are objectified and ogled yabber, yeabber, yabber". If gentlemen are hired in favor of female applicaants it is still sexist. They are never happy.

If gentlemen were hired to be ogled by females, it wouldn't be sexist. One rule for us and one rule for them.

Hmm, interesting use of dichotomy there. Gentlemen and females...

By and large, men aren't hired to be ogled by women, but for their abilities. There is a lot of bleating when women are hired over men, because it is perceived they weren't hired for their abilities, but to fill some quota...even if she is just as capable or moreso than the male applicants, it doesn't matter 'coz she has a pair of tits'. That's all she is seen as.

Steve O

WindSock wrote: »

Yes it is in the sense that everyone in here has stated that the sole purpose to seek a female bartender is not for her ability, but to be objectified.

Surely they don't know this before they take the job?! Poor innocent doves they is.

Dwork

WindSock wrote: »

Hmm, interesting use of dichotomy there. Gentlemen and females...

By and large, men aren't hired to be ogled by women, but for their abilities. There is a lot of bleating when women are hired over men, because it is perceived they weren't hired for their abilities, but to fill some quota...even if she is just as capable or moreso than the male applicants, it doesn't matter 'coz she has a pair of tits'. That's all she is seen as.

I have a feeling I may well have been. Is there somwhere I can send a thank you card? I view "being ogled" as a perk. Ogle ahead, s'all good.

Earthhorse

Steve O wrote: »

Surely they don't know this before they take the job?! Poor innocent doves they is.

Once again, this makes it okay.

Gummy Panda

Some of the people in this thread have to be insane. Its okay because its a guy discriminated against and they want boobs behind the bar. Business decision. Seriously?


What discrimination is unlawful under Irish equality legislation?

Irish equality legislation prohibits direct and indirect discrimination in the area of employment and in the supply of and access to goods, facilities and services, on any of the following nine grounds - gender, marital status, family status, sexual orientation, religion, age, disability, race or membership of the Traveller community.
Discrimination in the area of employment is prohibited by the Employment Equality Acts 1998 and 2004. The Acts cover all aspects of work including recruitment and promotion, the right to equal pay, conditions of employment, training or experience. If you are an employee, or trying to get a job and you feel you are discriminated against unlawfully, on any of the nine prohibited grounds, you can make a claim under these Acts.

humbert

It's a little absurd but given the reasoning here, how do strip clubs and the likes hire??

Dwork

humbert wrote: »

It's a little absurd but given the reasoning here, how do strip clubs and the likes hire??

On ability.:D Everyone knows men are crap at giving other men the horn. Ok, not all men, and not all men, but generally. Or you could word the add "wanted, beautiful person with slim legs and great dancing ability." That's 3/4 of all the lads gone straight away.

lkionm

****UPDATE****

They want to even out the ratio as there is only 1 girl working

Fukuyama

humbert wrote: »

It's a little absurd but given the reasoning here, how do strip clubs and the likes hire??

Casting couch :cool:

WindSock

Steve O wrote: »

Surely they don't know this before they take the job?! Poor innocent doves they is.

I'm not talking about the person taking the job, or even the company advertising for the job, I am talking about the assumption by everyone in this thread that the women are hired for the sole purpose to be looked at, rather than anything else.

Rabies

WindSock wrote: »

I'm not talking about the person taking the job, or even the company advertising for the job, I am talking about the assumption by everyone in this thread that the women are hired for the sole purpose to be looked at, rather than anything else.

Same goes for guys.

admiralofthefleet

lkionm wrote: »

***UPDATE***

They posted it again with a new picture. A guy leaning over backwards with one girl on the bar in a belly top and one to the side of him in a belly top as well showing off her bra and her top goes below the bottom of her cleavage.

He is in a whit T shirt being fed whiskey from the bottle.

not from the jar?