Russian Leader Warns, “Get All Money Out Of Western Banks Now!”

G Power

this cannot be classed as conspiracy stuff anymore, wake up and smell the truth that while most of the country gave governments and banks the benefit of the doubt for over 5 years now they have let each and everyone one of us down big time with their own brand of denial and greed.

anybody interested in discussing the impending worldwide bankrun that the "leaders" brought about themselves??

http://www.eutimes.net/2013/03/russian-leader-warns-get-all-money-out-of-western-banks-now/

A Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) “urgent bulletin” being sent to Embassies around the world today is advising both Russian citizens and companies to begin divesting their assets from Western banking and financial institutions “immediately” as Kremlin fears grow that both the European Union and United States are preparing for the largest theft of private wealth in modern history.

According to this “urgent bulletin,” this warning is being made at the behest of Prime Minister Medvedev who earlier today warned against the Western banking systems actions against EU Member Cyprus by stating:
“All possible mistakes that could be made have been made by them, the measure that was proposed is of a confiscation nature, and unprecedented in its character. I can’t compare it with anything but … decisions made by Soviet authorities … when they didn’t think much about the savings of their population. But we are living in the 21st century, under market economic conditions. Everybody has been insisting that ownership rights should be respected.”

Medvedev’s statements echo those of President Putin who, likewise, warned about the EU’s unprecedented private asset grab in Cyprus calling it “unjust, unprofessional, and dangerous.”

In our 17 March report “Europe Recoils In Shock After Bankster Raid, US Warned Is Next” we noted how Russian entities have €23-31 billion ($30-$40) in cross-border loans to Cypriot companies tied to Moscow, and €9 billion ($12 billion) on deposit with Cypriot banks [as compared to the €127 billion ($166 billion) being kept in similar circumstances by 60 of the United States largest corporations in offshore accounts to avoid paying American taxes] which are in danger of being confiscated by EU banksters.

Unbowed by the misery they have inflicted upon the entire continent, however, and in spite of Russian warnings, European Union officials hardened their stance against Cyprus today by announcing that if the Cypriot government did not allow the raiding of private bank accounts by Monday they would be forced to destroy their banks, which remain closed for the seventh straight day and have no signs of opening soon.

In an editorial agreeing with Russian leaders anger against the EU over Cyprus, Canada’s Globe and Mail News Service further writes:
“The parliament of Cyprus was right this week to reject a proposal to confiscate money from modest-sized bank deposits. The idea was a reductio ad absurdum of the euro zone’s policy on the sovereign debt of some of its member-countries.

It would be better for the government of Cyprus to default outright on some of its obligations rather than to seize part of the savings of the proverbial widows and orphans, as well as retirees or those approaching retirement – while purporting to levy a tax. This is especially true in a country that has deposit insurance for up to €100,000, in order to protect small savers.
Until a few years ago, Cyprus – which is really the ethnically Greek section of Cyprus, the Turkish section being a de facto protectorate of Turkey – had a fiscal surplus, but its close relationship to Greece resulted in a downturn when Greece fell into a severe recession. The government’s debt in itself is still manageable, but Cypriot banks have become shaky because of their loans to Greece.”

In the face of massive popular outrage, however, Cypriot MPs spectacularly voted earlier this week against the EU plan to steal their bank depositors money, thus leaving the Euro Zone reeling, a situation that was, in fact, created by European banksters who had forced Cyprus banks to lend money to nearly bankrupt Greece in the first place.

Even worse may be what is in store for the Americans, who on 31 January lost an unlimited US government guarantee that was granted on over $1.5 trillion of their bank deposits during the 2008 financial crisis to assure skittish customers that their cash was safe.

According to Kremlin sources, though, President Obama’s sudden visit to Israel this week, the first he has made since being elected in 2008, was to personally warn top Israelis of his regimes “plan” to begin confiscating his citizen’s bank deposits too.

Interesting to note is that the Obama regimes “master plan” to steal their citizen’s wealth that is no longer protected was detailed by the global management consulting giant, and the world’s leading advisor on business strategy, The Boston Consulting Group (BCG) who in their 2011 September report titled Collateral Damage: Back to Mesopotamia? The Threat of Debt Restructuring warned of the US governments plan confiscate up to 30% of not just the Americans people bank accounts, but also of their other wealth.
The highly respected Zero Hedge financial newsletter in commenting on this dire BCG report grimly stated:

“Denial. Denial is safe. Comforting. Religiously and relentlessly abused by politicians who don’t want nor can face reality. A word synonymous with “muddle through.” Ah yes, that “muddle through” which so many C-grade economists and pundits believe is the long-term status quo for the US and the world just because it worked for Japan for the past three decades, or, said otherwise, “just because.”

Well, too bad. As the following absolutely must read report, which comes not from some trader of dubious credibility interviewed by BBC, nor even from an impassioned executive from a doomed Italian bank, but from consultancy powerhouse Boston Consulting Group confirms, the “muddle through” is dead. And now it is time to face the facts.

What facts? The facts which state that between household, corporate and government debt, the developed world has $20 trillion in debt over and above the sustainable threshold by the definition of “stable” debt to GDP of 180%.
The facts according to which all attempts to eliminate the excess debt have failed, and for now even the Fed’s relentless pursuit of inflating our way out this insurmountable debt load have been for nothing.

The facts which state that the only way to resolve the massive debt load is through a global coordinated debt restructuring (which would, among other things, push all global banks into bankruptcy) which, when all is said and done, will have to be funded by the world’s financial asset holders: the middle-and upper-class, which, if BCS is right, have a ~30% one-time tax on all their assets to look forward to as the great mean reversion finally arrives and the world is set back on a viable path.

But not before the biggest episode of “transitory” pain, misery and suffering in the history of mankind. Good luck, politicians and holders of financial assets, you will need it because after Denial comes Anger, and only long after does Acceptance finally arrive.”

To the evidence that the masses of Americans or Europeans average citizens will begin protecting themselves against this apocalyptic outcome their remains little evidence as their so-called “mainstream” media continues to cover-up this coming catastrophe. But, and as Russia has now warned, the time for protecting oneself is fast running out, and the only survivors will be those who listened.

antoobrien

G Power wrote: »

http://www.eutimes.net/2013/03/russian-leader-warns-get-all-money-out-of-western-banks-now/

A Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) “urgent bulletin” being sent to Embassies around the world today is advising both Russian citizens and companies to begin divesting their assets from Western banking and financial institutions “immediately” as Kremlin fears grow that both the European Union and United States are preparing for the largest theft of private wealth in modern history.

Russia never believed the lost the cold war and have been in an economic war with the US & allies ever since. This will be third attempt at screwing over the West after their default on foreign debts in 1998 and the attempt to undermine the US financial system by coordinating with China to dump bonds in various us financial institutions, helping to undermine the Western (if not World) economy and speed up the collapse of dozens of financial institutions.

Jonny7

You'll have to wait a bit longer for the impending apocalypse because it's empty rhetoric. The Russians are just pissed that so much of their money may be used to bail out Cyprus.

the_syco

So, I'm taking this is in retaliation to the Cyprus government not playing nice to the Russians who may have money in the Cyprus banks?

G Power

the_syco wrote: »

So, I'm taking this is in retaliation to the Cyprus government not playing nice to the Russians who may have money in the Cyprus banks?

no if you read it you would see it's America trying to dig itself out of the astronomical hole it's in regarding debt, planning to steal 30% of yanks savings and their wealth!! why do you think it goes in bombing the **** out of oil rich countries?? it will do anything to keep the money flowing so it can keep control of everything

Jonny7

Well, the IMF/EU plan was to levy Cypriot bank deposits to raise funds to bail the banks out.

Up to 50% of the deposits in those banks are Russian..

clever..

Russians not the happiest seeing their precious laundered billions saving someone else's banks.

cameramonkey

Was in Rissian in the 90s when many of their banks collapsed. This is just anti western stuff by Putin and the want to get all that dirty money back into Russia.

have a look at the history of Russian bank collapses and the ripping off of the small depositor if you want to see what areal horror show looks like.

G Power

a real horror show to me would be letting banks and governments continue unchallenged when we could be living much better off if the system was let fail and we started back again with a fairer system. if people wanted it they could demand in within days. i cannot understand why we don't demand it? it's crazy beyond belief that anyone can argue for the continuation of this mess

jmayo

I think this is the Russians flexing their muscles.

The more worrying thing is that it looks like other countries, apart from Cyprus, have been toying with the idea that bank deposits are now fair game if a bank gets into trouble.
AFAIK New Zealand are definetly developing such plans with rumours the Uk have been developing plans for this scenario.

The myth that the small depositor is safe is being busted and that means the next time rumours spread about a bank being in trouble there is a good possibility there will be runs.

Godge

I just don't understand the fuss.

The Cypriot banks are bankrupt. If they go bust, depositers up to €100k are guaranteed and will get their money first from the bank assets and if there is a shortfall from the Cypriot government. Depositers over €100k will get whatever is available from bank assets if anything left. They face the prospect of getting next to nothing.

In order to prevent this collapse of the Cypriot banking system and to offer some succour to depositers, the Troika have stepped in to offer assistance. The way the Cypriot government intended to fund their share of this was through a c10% levy on bank deposits.

In reality large depositers face a choice of losing nearly everything or of losing something. A third alternative of someone else picking up the bill, be it the Cypriot or European taxpayer is not available so why aren't the depositers embracing the tax option? Am I missing something?

yore

Godge wrote: »

I just don't understand the fuss.

The Cypriot banks are bankrupt. If they go bust, depositers up to €100k are guaranteed and will get their money first from the bank assets and if there is a shortfall from the Cypriot government. Depositers over €100k will get whatever is available from bank assets if anything left. They face the prospect of getting next to nothing.

In order to prevent this collapse of the Cypriot banking system and to offer some succour to depositers, the Troika have stepped in to offer assistance. The way the Cypriot government intended to fund their share of this was through a c10% levy on bank deposits.

In reality large depositers face a choice of losing nearly everything or of losing something. A third alternative of someone else picking up the bill, be it the Cypriot or European taxpayer is not available so why aren't the depositers embracing the tax option? Am I missing something?

That's fine if the people guaranteeing it have the money to pay it out.

handlemaster

G Power wrote: »

this cannot be classed as conspiracy stuff anymore, wake up and smell the truth that while most of the country gave governments and banks the benefit of the doubt for over 5 years now they have let each and everyone one of us down big time with their own brand of denial and greed.

anybody interested in discussing the impending worldwide bankrun that the "leaders" brought about themselves??

http://www.eutimes.net/2013/03/russian-leader-warns-get-all-money-out-of-western-banks-now/

A Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) “urgent bulletin” being sent to Embassies around the world today is advising both Russian citizens and companies to begin divesting their assets from Western banking and financial institutions “immediately” as Kremlin fears grow that both the European Union and United States are preparing for the largest theft of private wealth in modern history.

According to this “urgent bulletin,” this warning is being made at the behest of Prime Minister Medvedev who earlier today warned against the Western banking systems actions against EU Member Cyprus by stating:
“All possible mistakes that could be made have been made by them, the measure that was proposed is of a confiscation nature, and unprecedented in its character. I can’t compare it with anything but … decisions made by Soviet authorities … when they didn’t think much about the savings of their population. But we are living in the 21st century, under market economic conditions. Everybody has been insisting that ownership rights should be respected.”

Medvedev’s statements echo those of President Putin who, likewise, warned about the EU’s unprecedented private asset grab in Cyprus calling it “unjust, unprofessional, and dangerous.”

In our 17 March report “Europe Recoils In Shock After Bankster Raid, US Warned Is Next” we noted how Russian entities have €23-31 billion ($30-$40) in cross-border loans to Cypriot companies tied to Moscow, and €9 billion ($12 billion) on deposit with Cypriot banks [as compared to the €127 billion ($166 billion) being kept in similar circumstances by 60 of the United States largest corporations in offshore accounts to avoid paying American taxes] which are in danger of being confiscated by EU banksters.

Unbowed by the misery they have inflicted upon the entire continent, however, and in spite of Russian warnings, European Union officials hardened their stance against Cyprus today by announcing that if the Cypriot government did not allow the raiding of private bank accounts by Monday they would be forced to destroy their banks, which remain closed for the seventh straight day and have no signs of opening soon.

In an editorial agreeing with Russian leaders anger against the EU over Cyprus, Canada’s Globe and Mail News Service further writes:
“The parliament of Cyprus was right this week to reject a proposal to confiscate money from modest-sized bank deposits. The idea was a reductio ad absurdum of the euro zone’s policy on the sovereign debt of some of its member-countries.

It would be better for the government of Cyprus to default outright on some of its obligations rather than to seize part of the savings of the proverbial widows and orphans, as well as retirees or those approaching retirement – while purporting to levy a tax. This is especially true in a country that has deposit insurance for up to €100,000, in order to protect small savers.
Until a few years ago, Cyprus – which is really the ethnically Greek section of Cyprus, the Turkish section being a de facto protectorate of Turkey – had a fiscal surplus, but its close relationship to Greece resulted in a downturn when Greece fell into a severe recession. The government’s debt in itself is still manageable, but Cypriot banks have become shaky because of their loans to Greece.”

In the face of massive popular outrage, however, Cypriot MPs spectacularly voted earlier this week against the EU plan to steal their bank depositors money, thus leaving the Euro Zone reeling, a situation that was, in fact, created by European banksters who had forced Cyprus banks to lend money to nearly bankrupt Greece in the first place.

Even worse may be what is in store for the Americans, who on 31 January lost an unlimited US government guarantee that was granted on over $1.5 trillion of their bank deposits during the 2008 financial crisis to assure skittish customers that their cash was safe.

According to Kremlin sources, though, President Obama’s sudden visit to Israel this week, the first he has made since being elected in 2008, was to personally warn top Israelis of his regimes “plan” to begin confiscating his citizen’s bank deposits too.

Interesting to note is that the Obama regimes “master plan” to steal their citizen’s wealth that is no longer protected was detailed by the global management consulting giant, and the world’s leading advisor on business strategy, The Boston Consulting Group (BCG) who in their 2011 September report titled Collateral Damage: Back to Mesopotamia? The Threat of Debt Restructuring warned of the US governments plan confiscate up to 30% of not just the Americans people bank accounts, but also of their other wealth.
The highly respected Zero Hedge financial newsletter in commenting on this dire BCG report grimly stated:

“Denial. Denial is safe. Comforting. Religiously and relentlessly abused by politicians who don’t want nor can face reality. A word synonymous with “muddle through.” Ah yes, that “muddle through” which so many C-grade economists and pundits believe is the long-term status quo for the US and the world just because it worked for Japan for the past three decades, or, said otherwise, “just because.”

Well, too bad. As the following absolutely must read report, which comes not from some trader of dubious credibility interviewed by BBC, nor even from an impassioned executive from a doomed Italian bank, but from consultancy powerhouse Boston Consulting Group confirms, the “muddle through” is dead. And now it is time to face the facts.

What facts? The facts which state that between household, corporate and government debt, the developed world has $20 trillion in debt over and above the sustainable threshold by the definition of “stable” debt to GDP of 180%.
The facts according to which all attempts to eliminate the excess debt have failed, and for now even the Fed’s relentless pursuit of inflating our way out this insurmountable debt load have been for nothing.

The facts which state that the only way to resolve the massive debt load is through a global coordinated debt restructuring (which would, among other things, push all global banks into bankruptcy) which, when all is said and done, will have to be funded by the world’s financial asset holders: the middle-and upper-class, which, if BCS is right, have a ~30% one-time tax on all their assets to look forward to as the great mean reversion finally arrives and the world is set back on a viable path.

But not before the biggest episode of “transitory” pain, misery and suffering in the history of mankind. Good luck, politicians and holders of financial assets, you will need it because after Denial comes Anger, and only long after does Acceptance finally arrive.”

To the evidence that the masses of Americans or Europeans average citizens will begin protecting themselves against this apocalyptic outcome their remains little evidence as their so-called “mainstream” media continues to cover-up this coming catastrophe. But, and as Russia has now warned, the time for protecting oneself is fast running out, and the only survivors will be those who listened.

where did you find the time to come up with this rubbish. the solidarity fund wil bridge the funding gap. Back to normal affairs on tuesday.

IS_a_Class

Now the bondholders have finally secured their assets after 5 or so years of maneuvering, depositors' money is no longer safe.

If I had more than a few pennies to rub together I'd be running down to my bank, taking out my cash, and transfering a portion of it into yuan,dollars, and silver. As it stands, I don't have that much in my bank so i can't be bothered.

jmayo

handlemaster wrote: »

where did you find the time to come up with this rubbish. the solidarity fund wil bridge the funding gap. Back to normal affairs on tuesday.

Care to bet on the chances of things being normal in Cyprus on Tuesday ?

The moment the banks open there will be people trying to remove their money.
Granted the government may have formulated capital movement laws which just means there will be riots instead as depositors are told they can't remove their money.
If I was a bank offical in Cyprus the only reason I would go to work on Tuesday is to remove my own money.

G Power

IS_a_Class wrote: »

Now the bondholders have finally secured their assets after 5 or so years of maneuvering, depositors' money is no longer safe.

exactly!! now wasn't it worth sitting back and leaving them to it

G Power

jmayo wrote: »

Care to bet on the chances of things being normal in Cyprus on Tuesday ?

The moment the banks open there will be people trying to remove their money.
Granted the government may have formulated capital movement laws which just means there will be riots instead as depositors are told they can't remove their money.
If I was a bank offical in Cyprus the only reason I would go to work on Tuesday is to remove my own money.

we may well have crossed the rubicon and still the majority hope against hope it will all be ok in the morning, oh to be so ignorant as to not admit to myself what's really going on on the global scale, i really don't understand how people can still not see what the crazy bastards "running the show" are really at

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/europe/cyprus-is-endgame-in-plot-by-politicians-and-banksters-to-steal-wealth-of-citizens-1.1334574

whatstherush

IS_a_Class wrote: »

Now the bondholders have finally secured their assets after 5 or so years of maneuvering, depositors' money is no longer safe.

If I had more than a few pennies to rub together I'd be running down to my bank, taking out my cash, and transfering a portion of it into yuan,dollars, and silver. As it stands, I don't have that much in my bank so i can't be bothered.

Ya, except the Cypriot Banks were bondholders in the Greek banks and got burned in 2011. Hence the hole in their balance sheet. I guess they are a different type of bondholder.

G Power

whatstherush wrote: »

Ya, except the Cypriot Banks were bondholders in the Greek banks and got burned in 2011. Hence the hole in their balance sheet. I guess they are a different type of bondholder.

the whole system has been bastardised beyond all recognition and I reckon the Cypriot government have had enough of this madness and fair balls to them, if it was me I'd have done it for Ireland long ago, we'd have been sorted by now, look at Iceland for the love of all that is good!! the system needs changing end of

Jonny7

The situation won't be normal on Tuesday - there will be severe restrictions in place on cash movements whatever happens

As it stands, right now, from leaks - the deal they are thrashing out appears those with 100,000 or less will be spared - but bigger depositors and creditors would be hit with some fairly sizeable haircuts

Again, no confirmation of that yet

The people can riot all they want and hang whomever they want - it's not going to "fix" the situation and they know that. The time for solutions is now, the finger-pointing and blame, later.

Also a significant proportion of the population are employed in banks and finance.

whatstherush

G Power wrote: »

the whole system has been bastardised beyond all recognition and I reckon the Cypriot government have had enough of this madness and fair balls to them, if it was me I'd have done it for Ireland long ago, we'd have been sorted by now, look at Iceland for the love of all that is good!! the system needs changing end of

Look your calling for bondholders to be burned, this is what happens. I know you like to imagine bond holders are big fat cats that deserved to be burned, but the truth is they are other banks, pension funds etc... You want to burn them, except the consequences.

IS_a_Class

whatstherush wrote: »

Ya, except the Cypriot Banks were bondholders in the Greek banks and got burned in 2011. Hence the hole in their balance sheet. I guess they are a different type of bondholder.

I guess they must be

Lantus

Cyrpus is an interesting point in case. A small island with relatively small population. The amount of bailout according to the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21893911

is proportonally less than other bailouts so why the severe action? Does Europe beieve that the fact its an island will make it an easier target to do something else on a small scale and teach the rest of Europe a lesson. I wouldn't be surprised in the coming months to see the IMF come in and run this country with the government being essentially elected to do what they are told.

As for the world debt problems. I would watch modern money mechanics on you tube.

All money is debt as banks create it out of thin air and then sell it with interest (money which doesn't yet exist.) Its a ponzi scam that will come to a very bad end....for the ordinary people.

There are better alternatives to money through debt creation. In the short to medium term money controlled by governments that is not created out of debt, just created and spent as needed.

In the long term we need to move away from monetary systems and towards a resource based economy. Well,only if we want humanity and our children to have half a chance of surviving the stupitidy of the 20th and 21st century's.

hatrickpatrick

Look it really is perfectly simple.
I'm sorry, but regardless of the political or economic factors, whoever came up with this genius idea of taxing principle bank deposits should have known that the ONLY possible outcome was a bank run and massive international contagion in the form of a confidence collapse.

The fact that the people in the EU who came up with this are apparently "taken aback" and "shook" by the scale of the chaos which followed, to me, proves that they know absolutely nothing whatsoever about mass psychology or economics. Which is very frightening if they're the people responsible for trying to fix this whole eurozone mess.

Seriously, a child of 10 could have told you that if you start telling people you'll be taking cash out of their piggybank, they're going to empty it and stop using the feckin' thing. This is possibly the most basic logical common sense imaginable.

That someone is honestly surprised at the reaction to the plan just shows how utterly clueless those in charge are. And I find that pretty f*cking scary.

Jonny7

Lantus wrote: »

Cyrpus is an interesting point in case. A small island with relatively small population. The amount of bailout according to the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21893911

is proportonally less than other bailouts

It's proportionally much more than other countries I thought

jmayo

G Power wrote: »

the whole system has been bastardised beyond all recognition and I reckon the Cypriot government have had enough of this madness and fair balls to them, if it was me I'd have done it for Ireland long ago, we'd have been sorted by now, look at Iceland for the love of all that is good!! the system needs changing end of

I don't give any credit to the Cypriot government or at least some memebrs of it.
They supposedly helped forumlate the plan.
Granted they were under duress.

There is no way a politican could vote for the raiding of ordinary savers deposits.
It would be fooking suicide and potentially not just political suicide.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Look it really is perfectly simple.
I'm sorry, but regardless of the political or economic factors, whoever came up with this genius idea of taxing principle bank deposits should have known that the ONLY possible outcome was a bank run and massive international contagion in the form of a confidence collapse.

The fact that the people in the EU who came up with this are apparently "taken aback" and "shook" by the scale of the chaos which followed, to me, proves that they know absolutely nothing whatsoever about mass psychology or economics. Which is very frightening if they're the people responsible for trying to fix this whole eurozone mess.

Seriously, a child of 10 could have told you that if you start telling people you'll be taking cash out of their piggybank, they're going to empty it and stop using the feckin' thing. This is possibly the most basic logical common sense imaginable.

That someone is honestly surprised at the reaction to the plan just shows how utterly clueless those in charge are. And I find that pretty f*cking scary.

This has been my point all along.
Of course you find economists, media pundits and posters around here, saying that were else could Cyprus find the money.
What these people seem to fail to notice is that this situation is not solely limited to Cyprus.

Has anyone been keeping an eye on Greek banks because surely their depositors must be shifting their money out.

As McWilliams, love him or loath him, mentioned the other night on PrimeTime, someone should have known this was a bad idea when looking at the grand scheme of things.

The troika oked this deal and they should have known they were crossing a line with no return.
The stupdity of people in power, be they in governments, banking institutions or corporations never fail to surprise me.

Once this was mooted and given offical backing, much like a spouse admitting they had an affair, it can never be taken back and it will forever be there in the background like a pretty bad festering smell.

People can't forget they heard this.
The consequences of this don't just affect Cyprus, but any country that has already landed in trouble or may be heading for trouble.

Scofflaw

Jonny7 wrote: »

It's proportionally much more than other countries I thought

Yes - €10bn is about 60% of GDP, which is larger than ours. The full bailout programme, including the €5.8bn the Cypriots have to put in, is nearly equivalent to their GDP of €17.5bn (it's 90%). Together with the loan they already took from Russia, of €2.5bn, their recent borrowing and bailout needs are a bit more than 100% of GDP.

Since they had debt:GDP of 75%+ already, loaning the whole amount would take Cyprus to 177% debt:GDP, which is regarded as unsustainable, which means the IMF cannot be a part of the bailout, which means the other countries will also pull out. Hence the €5.8bn that Cyprus has to find itself - it takes the Cypriot debt load down to 144%, closer to the 120% generally agreed sustainability level.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Chucky the tree

G Power wrote: »

a real horror show to me would be letting banks and governments continue unchallenged when we could be living much better off if the system was let fail and we started back again with a fairer system. if people wanted it they could demand in within days. i cannot understand why we don't demand it? it's crazy beyond belief that anyone can argue for the continuation of this mess

Yea, it's amazing how people don't want to lose all of their life savings and pension.

G Power

Lantus wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised in the coming months to see the IMF come in and run this country with the government being essentially elected to do what they are told.

didn't you get the memo?? we lost our sovereignty a couple of years back

Chucky the tree

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Look it really is perfectly simple.
I'm sorry, but regardless of the political or economic factors, whoever came up with this genius idea of taxing principle bank deposits should have known that the ONLY possible outcome was a bank run and massive international contagion in the form of a confidence collapse.

The fact that the people in the EU who came up with this are apparently "taken aback" and "shook" by the scale of the chaos which followed, to me, proves that they know absolutely nothing whatsoever about mass psychology or economics. Which is very frightening if they're the people responsible for trying to fix this whole eurozone mess.

Seriously, a child of 10 could have told you that if you start telling people you'll be taking cash out of their piggybank, they're going to empty it and stop using the feckin' thing. This is possibly the most basic logical common sense imaginable.

That someone is honestly surprised at the reaction to the plan just shows how utterly clueless those in charge are. And I find that pretty f*cking scary.

When is this bank run going to happen? I haven't seen massive queues in banks around Dublin with people looking to empty their accounts. Maybe it's happening in your area?

G Power

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The fact that the people in the EU who came up with this are apparently "taken aback" and "shook" by the scale of the chaos which followed, to me, proves that they know absolutely nothing whatsoever about mass psychology or economics. Which is very frightening if they're the people responsible for trying to fix this whole eurozone mess.

Seriously, a child of 10 could have told you that if you start telling people you'll be taking cash out of their piggybank, they're going to empty it and stop using the feckin' thing. This is possibly the most basic logical common sense imaginable.

I think they know only too well what they're at, there is nothing new happening here, only difference to any crash that was engineered in the past is the amounts are just larger

it will also further frighten the $hit out of everyone on the breadline as to how far they will reach into our lives to save those who've got money to invest in bonds from losing a penny!! fear/denial/stockholm syndrome and all the messing they do in full view of us all only strengthens their grip on our lives, not the cypriots, the greeks, the Portuguese or the spanish though, surprisingly. if any of the other countries I mentioned were informed their government were about to change what were being proven to be illegal promissory notes to more "legal" ECB bonds they would have been out in their droves to force the government to vote against such things, anyone who says they wouldn't is lying to themselves. there would have been significantly more then 30 or 40 people that were outside Leinster house on that night but no were Irish and we fully believe it will be all grand in the morning. all our eggs in one basket held by basket cases.ie

G Power

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Yea, it's amazing how people don't want to lose all of their life savings and pension.

we'd be better off in the medium to long run if we changed the system for the better though or am i mental??

what I'm talking about is probably utopian to some people but I firmly believe if we can have such a complicated banking and financial system and be so advanced as a species with our inventions, discoveries, scientific knowledge etc etc we could force the real people, banking institutions at the very top to change to our way within weeks.

why can't people see we may have to make things a little worse before we ever have a chance of a fairer system for as long as we're willing to fight for it if corruption creeps in again. There are 7,000,000,000+ people ruled by a banking system exclusive to a few families/institutions. how the hell did we let them get such control over us that we sit back and watch them practically destroy the system??

are we really going to put up with this forever?? I for one am sick of their $hit!! Am I really alone here like????????????

Chucky the tree

G Power wrote: »

we'd be better off in the medium to long run if we changed the system for the better though or am i mental??

what I'm talking about is probably utopian to some people but I firmly believe if we can have such a complicated banking and financial system and be so advanced as a species with our inventions, discoveries, scientific knowledge etc etc we could force the real people, banking institutions at the very top to change to our way within weeks.

why can't people see we may have to make things a little worse before we ever have a chance of a fairer system for as long as we're willing to fight for it if corruption creeps in again. There are 7,000,000,000+ people ruled by a banking system exclusive to a few families/institutions. how the hell did we let them get such control over us that we sit back and watch them practically destroy the system??

are we really going to put up with this forever?? I for one am sick of their $hit!! Am I really alone here like????????????

Yea pretty much. Plenty of people are living perfectly happily as they are. It should be pretty obvious why everyone isn't willing to loss everything based on some pipe-dream.

P_1

There is risk and reward associated with every financial decision you make in life really. A few examples.

Keeping your money under the mattress. The risk is that your house could burn down or somebody could steal your money. The reward is that you have access to your cash.

Keeping your money in the bank. The risk is that the bank could collapse or that somebody could steal your money. The reward is a small percentage interest.

Betting your money on the 20/1 outsider in the 3:20 at Chepstow. The risk is that your horse could lose. The reward is that it could win at odds of 20/1.

G Power

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Yea pretty much. Plenty of people are living perfectly happily as they are. It should be pretty obvious why everyone isn't willing to loss everything based on some pipe-dream.

you must be smokin some pipes yourself to be able to ignore all the mental $hit going on worldwide right now this minute and for far too long in my view and it's gone on practically unchallenged by us.*

you know, our governments are supposed to be working for, not the bosses of war, financial and big pharma.

all this is connected because where there's money they're the ones controlling it for their gain and our loss if it they decide so

we may well be sheltered from war and bombs here but ya can be damned sure that how some countries are being brought into into line at the moment

we however have our own financial bombs keeping us under the thumb to such a point we'd rather fight amongst ourselves and not the system keeping us all wondering what the fcuk next??

* if someone says this is a conspiracy theory tell that to those who are being blown to fcuking bits in a war against terror that's only creating it for a never ending campaign.

the_syco

Jonny7 wrote: »

Well, the IMF/EU plan was to levy Cypriot bank deposits to raise funds to bail the banks out.

The plan was to tax those with over €100,000 in their accounts.

Russia uses Cyprus like we use the Caymens.

G Power wrote: »

we could be living much better off if the system was let fail and we started back again with a fairer system.

What utter crap. If the system fell, those with the most guns would make the new rules, and anyone who thinks differently will be shot.

G Power wrote: »

look at Iceland for the love of all that is good!!

Look at Iceland who powers 40% of it's own electricity, a large employment base, that Iceland? It's always windy here, but we have sweet fcuk all wind turbines, we have the biggest waves, but no WEC's. If we were to start over, the same sh|te would happen again, with the pump politicians. The only other way would be for the americans to rewrite our constitution to throw all the catholic crap out, and for an armed militant coup to overthrow the current gubbernment for the republican cause. Any guess what party could do that?

G Power wrote: »

we'd be better off in the medium to long run if we changed the system for the better though or am i mental??

The bat sh|t insane type of mental, yes.

G Power wrote: »

to change to our way within weeks.

Don't you mean "your way", whatever fcuked up way that is?

G Power wrote: »

why can't people see we may have to make things a little worse before we ever have a chance of a fairer system

You want the state to fall over, and for someone to take control that doesn't have an agenda? It's ain't crazy talk; it's stupid talk.

G Power wrote: »

Am I really alone here like????????????

You should get an island, and let us know how you get on in 5 years.

G Power wrote: »

we may well be sheltered from war and bombs here but ya can be damned sure that how some countries are being brought into into line at the moment

If the state collapses in the way you want, our country will have a civil war, and there will be no winners, only losers.

G Power wrote: »

* if someone says this is a conspiracy theory tell that to those who are being blown to fcuking bits in a war against terror that's only creating it for a never ending campaign.

What the holy fcuking crap is that even meant to mean? If what you say isn't a conspiracy, look at Iraq? WTF are ye on about?

Pete_Cavan

The reality is that the EU, Troika or IMF didnt come up with the plan to tax deposits under €100k, the Cypriot government came up with that one themselves. As Scofflaw pointed out earlier, the IMF refused to bail out Cyprus because it would have increased the debt:GDP ratio to unsustainable levels. Not unreasonable really, would you lend to someone already swimming in debt? The Cypriot government had to come up with €5.8bn om their own without taking on more debt, hence taxing deposits. Of course, they could have left out deposits under €100k from the beginning and gone after Russian billionaires instead of ordinary Cypriots.

What was the alternative to taxing deposits, let the banks fail and lose almost all of your savings? Look at the mayhem caused here when Ulster Banks system was on the blink for a week, imagine the complete collapse of major banks. People would lose far more than the c.6% proposed in the tax, close to, if not 100%. Cypriot banks are also major employers in their country so huge unemployment, and other businesses would lose access to overdrafts and working capital causing further unemployment. Their economy would be completely destroyed.

It is easy to say something is not the right solution when you are not offering any solutions yourself. Dont rely on Russian propoganda when the Russians have a vested interest in the matter.

G Power

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The reality is that the EU, Troika or IMF didnt come up with the plan to tax deposits under €100k, the Cypriot government came up with that one themselves.

ya and i suppose it was the greek presidents decision to step down and let a goldman sachs banker run greece within weeks of wanting to allow the greeks the right to vote for or against the bailout, heaven forbid anyone of us gets to decide whether they take on private debts or not!!

if wikileaks has thought us anything it should that what we see may not be the truth and it usually isn't

but sure we'll just go along with it not taking anything for face value anymore, no matter how many times it's proven to us that governments and their bosses and associates will do anything they flipping well want to keep their lifestyles intact

step in their way and you're out but i'd like to see them do that to everyone if we all grew a pair and told them to really cop on

it's a simple as that like

G Power

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

It is easy to say something is not the right solution when you are not offering any solutions yourself. Dont rely on Russian propoganda when the Russians have a vested interest in the matter.

they've all got a vested interest in it, that's why we're the ones covering it all ffs!!

I am offering a solution, simplify the financial system to be a transparent and fair system, let government govern and no more interference from big pharma, america, war, financial corruption etc etc etc.

i am done trying to advocate standing up for ourselves and demanding true change for once and for all when the reasons for it are everywhere to be seen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMUiwTubYu0

G Power

I have to wonder why it is people will fight to the death to defend lunatics who are up to their necks in so much **** neither them or us can even see through it anymore! Once someone starts painting a pretty picture of the people trying to bring about real change they get shot down immediately without even giving it a try. If we did it right we wouldn't have to bring the system down, only convince them to cut the $hit.

There's hardly a move any of them make anymore but we hear about it either before, during or after the fact so there's plenty of scope for us to show approval or not for whatever they're up to.

or we can just do nothing and leave them go completely unchecked. who are they supposed to answer to if it's not us the people?? and i mean those at the top now

Pete_Cavan

G Power wrote: »

I am offering a solution, simplify the financial system to be a transparent and fair system, let government govern and no more interference from big pharma, america, war, financial corruption etc etc etc.

OK, so once you have allowed the banks to fail, where do you get the money to pay back all the Cypriot depositors (bearing in mind depositors are considered on equal footing with senior bondholders)? You can say taxing deposits is unfair or whatever but it is pointless unless you have a solution which allows depositors to lose nothing.

G Power

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

OK, so once you have allowed the banks to fail, where do you get the money to pay back all the Cypriot depositors (bearing in mind depositors are considered on equal footing with senior bondholders)? You can say taxing deposits is unfair or whatever but it is pointless unless you have a solution which allows depositors to lose nothing.

here's one recently thought up solution

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100582622

The real shame about the mess in Cyprus is that it's all so unnecessary.

All the complicated proposals aimed at restoring the solvency of Cyprus' insolvent banks, all the confusing false flag plans, all the Great Game geopolitics surrounding the natural gas resources, the threat to the unity of the European Union, and the unsettling of the Cypriot people.

It's all unnecessary. There's a much better, and simpler, alternative that has been available right from the start.

Let the failing banks fail.


Only The Wall Street Journal's editorial board seems to understand this:
Cyprus's two biggest banks, Laiki and the Bank of Cyprus, are deeply insolvent. While the EU, the IMF and Cyprus could spend the weekend trying to negotiate a deal to inject billions into the banks, the time would be better spent arranging for their bankruptcy.
Here's how it could work: Shareholders, along with senior and subordinated debt holders, would be wiped out. Deposits up to €100,000 that are insured would be protected. Larger depositors would take a haircut in the range of 40 percent—somewhat more for Laiki depositors, somewhat less for account holders at Bank of Cyprus, reflecting the extent of the losses and the capital needs at the two banks.
In exchange for their losses, these depositors would get all the new equity; they would become the proud owners of two newly well-capitalized banks. No public funds would be needed to save the banks, and both creditor seniority and the rule of law would be respected. Cyprus would be able to take its banking problem off its books at a stroke, and the banks could reopen on schedule Tuesday with full access to the ECB's emergency liquidity assistance, if needed to meet any withdrawal demands.
This would both avoid the need for the German government to approve something its people so obviously do not: bailing out another Mediterranean country. It would avoid the moral hazard of a bailout. It would avoid defaulting on deposit insurance promises. And it avoids asking Cyprus to sell or mortgage its valuable energy assets.
One of the biggest problems with an across-the-board levy on deposits is that the penalty on savers would be divorced from the level of insolvency of their bank. Careful savers who put money in one of Cyprus' healthier (relatively speaking) banks would suffer with those who carelessly kept their money in Laiki. This was its own form of moral hazard—discouraging public monitoring of bank risk.
The unlearned lesson of Lehman remains badly unlearned. The problem wasn't that Lehman failed—it was that the government was never able to send a consistent message about its approach to troubled financial firms. Bear was rescued, Fannie and Freddie brought into something called a conservatorship, Lehman bankrupt, and AIG bailed out. No wonder chaos broke out.
This is what's at risk in Cyprus. There seem to be no agreed-upon rules, no official process, nothing that can be counted upon.

G Power

http://www.forbes.com/sites/traceygreenstein/2013/02/20/icelands-stabilized-economy-is-a-surprising-success-story/

You may have heard about Iceland’s toppling economy back in 2008. As one of the hardest-hit countries at the time, Iceland’s heavily criticized method to escape veritable economic demise actually did the trick.

Faced with the possibility of financial failure, Iceland had to think on its feet. Instead of bailing out banks USA-style, the country forgave mortgage debt for the population – and completely started over from square one.

A country with a small population of roughly 320,000 citizens, Iceland‘s entire banking structure “systemically failed” in the early days of the 2008 recession. Despite the fact that Iceland is still on the road to recovery, the country ranks high as a politically and economically stable nation. Their success over the last few years has been largely under-reported, and the story behind it is quite fascinating.

A Little Bit of Morality Goes A Long Way

Let’s face it: Icelanders are tough. They are entirely isolated, living in frozen tundra, perpetually enduring less-than-optimal weather patterns. While they are surrounded by epic natural beauty, these people aren’t spoiled; they’re tenacious.

Instead of allowing the criminals responsible for bank fraud to run free as the years passed by, Iceland thought it might be wise to actually indict bankers who committed serious financial crimes that contributed to the collapse. By paying off loans for consumers, forgiving homeowner debt (up to 110% of the property value), and throwing the offenders in prison, Iceland was able to bounce back. Now, its economy is “recovered” and is growing faster than both the US and European economies.

When Iceland’s President Olafur Ragnar Grimmson was asked whether or not other countries – Europe in particular – would succeed with Iceland’s “let the banks fail” policy, he stated the following:

“Why are the banks considered to be the holy churches of the modern economy? Why are private banks not like airlines and telecommunication companies and allowed to go bankrupt if they have been run in an irresponsible way? The theory that you have to bail out banks is a theory that you allow bankers enjoy for their own profit, their success, and then let ordinary people bear their failure through taxes and austerity. 
People in enlightened democracies are not going to accept that in the long run.”

Grimmson’s “famous” reply to the controversial question, “What is the reason for Iceland’s recovery?” is most remarkable.

“We were wise enough not to follow the traditional prevailing orthodoxies of the Western financial world in the last 30 years. We introduced currency controls, we let the banks fail, we provided support for the poor, and we didn’t introduce austerity measures like you’re seeing in Europe.”

Picking Up the Pieces On the Road to Recovery

Of course, though, everything isn’t all rosy. Many Icelanders have two or three jobs to sustain themselves and their families post-2008, and a sudden spike in taxes – an inevitable result of letting the banks fail – made the burden even harder to bear.

Though unemployment is down (it’s less than 5% of the population), you could say that “Iceland is a victim of its own success.” Very high standards of living and 60-70 hour work weeks create a bit of a pinch in the pockets. Difficult challenges lie ahead, but whichever way you look at it, Iceland did avert a seemingly incurable catastrophe. The point is that Iceland was criticized for allowing the banks to fail – and we now know that the disparaging remarks from scathing critics were too quick to judge.

Since 2008, Iceland has added jobs to its tourism and green energy sectors. In fact, according to the Icelandic Tourism Board, foreign visitors increased last year by 15.9% – and travel now accounts for 5.9% of GDP.

However unorthodox in its method, Iceland’s “let it fail” policy resulted in jubilation. We can’t seek perfection in the years after a global financial collapse, but we can acknowledge nations who persevered with integrity.

G Power

as far as I'm concerned it wouldn't be half as complicated to simply cut the $hit as it will end up being by the time this does "fix" itself

it only takes one decision to do the right thing but it takes millions of lies and spin to do what they've gotten away with so far and will need to spin such crazy amounts yet to get out of it for a few more years before everything will inevitably fall down around us all over again and again and again. it's already happened how many times before like??

i have kids and I want them to grow up in a different world to the one we're living in right now. is that too much to ask of people who should remember we have the power to change whatever we like about the system and fcuk anybody who tells us any different!!

I had a successful business until 2009 and I had been contributing a nice bit of tax, paying lots of vat being on the road all day, road tax and all the rest, but instead my little girl has to get by on what little I can afford to feed and cloth her on the dole with no prospects. This madness has gone on long enough as far as I'm concerned and nobody will ever change my mind on that. I don't envy anybody when they realise not even they can escape the effects this whole mess is having on the planet. I cannot unsee what I've seen taking place and knowing it's all illegal or wrong. I don't think we're meant to either, or are we really as the intelligent species supposed to sit back as a tiny minority wreck everything for private gain??

handlemaster

the scare mongers will be disappointed. parliment has passed legislation for monetary control of capital also solidarity bond will be issued. all sort for tuesday. you can sleep easy ...

G Power

handlemaster wrote: »

the scare mongers will be disappointed. parliment has passed legislation for monetary control of capital also solidarity bond will be issued. all sort for tuesday. you can sleep easy ...

ya that's it all fixed up alright, follow the yellow brick road follow the yellow brick road

handlemaster

G Power wrote: »

ya that's it all fixed up alright, follow the yellow brick road follow the yellow brick road

we all have to follow one road or go our separate ways in europe. the cyprites got themselves here if they cant put in a little now theres not much hope of countries such as ireland getting our money back that we lend them.

G Power

handlemaster wrote: »

we all have to follow one road or go our separate ways in europe. the cyprites got themselves here if they cant put in a little now theres not much hope of countries such as ireland getting our money back that we lend them.

would ya stop the lights ahahahahahaha!! the money we lent them we borrowed from those who took it from others who took it from the Cypriots and it's all gone full circle many times over across the world and you want this kind of system to continue??

tell ya what we'll do now, let's give the proud Cypriot people a few hours to show what they think of the "deal" before we even acknowledge the crazies managed to pulled out a small plaster to try fix a hemorrhaging financial system

the way we're going on would equate to waiting to drown instead and not even trying to swim out of danger

G Power

thankfully the revolution is being televised or at least it was until this happened

http://www.ustream.tv/occupycarlisle?utm_campaign=unknown&utm_source=9763106&utm_medium=social

I'm told by occupy wall st facebook the live feed will be back on when independent and regular media are back in control over there

Pete_Cavan

G Power wrote: »

Here's how it could work: Shareholders, along with senior and subordinated debt holders, would be wiped out. Deposits up to €100,000 that are insured would be protected. Larger depositors would take a haircut in the range of 40 percent—somewhat more for Laiki depositors, somewhat less for account holders at Bank of Cyprus, reflecting the extent of the losses and the capital needs at the two banks.
In exchange for their losses, these depositors would get all the new equity; they would become the proud owners of two newly well-capitalized banks.

Cyprus’s depositors aren’t covered by deposit guarantee rules because the state is insolvent. So in your solution the banks are liquidated and assets sold off. Bondholders would make legal challenges to all of the money raised going towards deposits <€100k as both are unsecured creditors on the same footing. You can be sure there would be similar challenges by deposits >€100k (ie. some of the richest people in Russia). There would not be enough money to pay the deposits <€100k and these depositors could lose a lot more than the 6.75% proposed in the original bailout package.

You can say ordinary depositors shouldnt lose any money but in order to put that into practice you need to find several billion euro to cover the costs. I hate it when minor details like that get in the way of an otherwise brilliant plan.

chinwag

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Cyprus’s depositors aren’t covered by deposit guarantee rules because the state is insolvent.

That's a new one on me. Aren't they part of the eurozone? And perhaps worryingly, Ireland is too.
I heard a Labour spokesman giving his 'opinions' on this matter on the PK Show on Thurs.
Credibility seems to have really gone out the window these days.

G Power

chinwag wrote: »

That's a new one on me. Aren't they part of the eurozone? And perhaps worryingly, Ireland is too.
I heard a Labour spokesman giving his 'opinions' on this matter on the PK Show on Thurs.
Credibility seems to have really gone out the window these days.

only lately??? :eek: