Property Tax. Putting a Figure on it.

Kettleson

Gloomy reading in the post today. Received Property Tax Letter.

Any tips for completing it within the context of Sligo areas? It all seems pretty random to me. Are the Auctioneers/Estate Agents going to be of any help?

On a side note: I can remember the Tory lobby in the UK having the slogan "Can Pay, Will Pay, Do Pay the Poll Tax" which I though was ironically humorous at the time. No such lobby in Ireland.

Geuze

There was a small auction recently.

Auction highlights extent of crash

PROPERTY PRICES AT A FRACTION OF PEAK

Comments



2-bed apartment Guide price: €25k


HARRY KEANEY– 22 January 2013
THERE'S A silver lining to every cloud, and so it is too with the property market.




With prices having shot through the roof during the Celtic tiger boom, properties are now selling at a fraction of their one-time asking prices.
An example is an apartment in The Buttermarket complex, pictured, in Sligo city centre, now selling for just over a tenth of what was once being sought.
Comprising two-beds, its minimum reserve price is €25,000.
According to auctioneer Shane Flanagan, of DNG Flanagan Ford, the asking price would have been in the region of €230,000 during the boom.
He explained: "It is a standard two-bed apartment on patio level within The Buttermarket.
Meanwhile, in Mulberry Park, in the Ballinode area of SLigo, a fourbed semi-detached house is for sale with a reserve price of €75,000.
There was a time when the asking price for the house, at 44 Mulberry Park, would have been €375,000 to €380,000.
In the same area, another fourbed, semi-detached house, at 11 Copper River, is for sale with a reserve price of €65,000.
Again, between €330,000 to €340,000 would have been sought for this house during the boom.
Both houses, in Mulberry Park and Copper River, are in need of refurbishment.
However, with their location between IT Sligo and St. Angela's College, they are in a prime rental location.
And, despite the credit crunch, it appears there are still people out there with money.
"We had a lot of viewings of these houses. There has been great interest," Mr. Flanagan said.
Unless previously sold, all these properties will be auctioned on Friday, February 1st, at 3 p.m. in The Glasshouse Hotel.

Geuze

Auction results:

Buttermarket apt = 43k

Ballinode

11 Copper River = 69k

44 Mulberry Park = 81k

Kettleson

Thanks Geuze,

Going by auction prices achieved, the nice folk at the Revenue Dept have way overestimated all properties in County Sligo and beyond. Of course they wont see it that way.

dingding

Also have a look at the property price register to see what stuff is going for.

http://www.propertypriceregister.ie/

slapbangwallop

Kettleson wrote: »

Thanks Geuze,

Going by auction prices achieved, the nice folk at the Revenue Dept have way overestimated all properties in County Sligo and beyond. Of course they wont see it that way.

That's because Market Value assumes that the properties are not in a 'Forced Sale' situation, which these were.

Buford T Justice

According to the property price register a house sold in my area for circa €50K, yet on their website our house and the same area is in region 2 100 - 200K

Guess what I'll be doing.

Kettleson

Buford T Justice wrote: »

According to the property price register a house sold in my area for circa €50K, yet on their website our house and the same area is in region 2 100 - 200K

Guess what I'll be doing.

That's a very good point, notionally, it would be more logical to use the property price register as a means of assessing value.

ie: a similar 3 bed house in an area within a Km range sold for whatever. And if there was say 3 properties of the same description in that area take the average of the 3 and so on. At least its a real base value.

Of course we know that wouldn't happen, and if it did, the Revenue would just simply raise the tax level on lower valued properties and would continue to bleed us for every cent they can get, so it wouldn't make a difference anyway.

These times remind me of growing up in the 70's when nobody had a shilling and getting a new pair of jeans was the talk of the street. We had nothing, but we didn't have the debt either. Keep well people:D

Geuze

Kettleson wrote: »

T, the Revenue would just simply raise the tax level on lower valued properties and would continue to bleed us for every cent they can get, so it wouldn't make a difference anyway.

Note that taxes in Irl are below average.

My parents pay 5% income tax on 50k.

Great country, where else would you get it.

No wonder the fiscal deficit is huge!!!!

Geuze

slapbangwallop wrote: »

That's because Market Value assumes that the properties are not in a 'Forced Sale' situation, which these were.

Forced sale or not, we don't know.

The most recent sale is the market value.

An asking price is not a true value.

You can ask as much as you like.

But until somebody puts their hand in their pocket, an actual market value can't be established.

Kettleson

Geuze wrote: »

Forced sale or not, we don't know.

The most recent sale is the market value.

An asking price is not a true value.

You can ask as much as you like.

But until somebody puts their hand in their pocket, an actual market value can't be established.

Indeed, a house is only worth as much as someone is prepared to pay for it.

garancafan

Geuze wrote: »

My parents pay 5% income tax on 50k.

I would keep quiet about that.

DieselPowered

Kettleson wrote: »

Gloomy reading in the post today. Received Property Tax Letter. Are the Auctioneers/Estate Agents going to be of any help?

If you get an Auctioneer/Estate agent out to price up your home, they say its worth €X value (what they think someone is actually willing to pay) and you get a letter from the Auctioneer/Estate Agent saying its worth €x,(and X fits into category 1 value) ........but on the Revenue letter/Revenue letter they say its worth €Y (which is substantially more in Revenue's opinion) (and Y fits into a higher category, say category 2 value),

Is there any reason why you can't go with your valuation report value €X (lower category) which you can justify and stand behind as coming from a source from some one who knows your local market price?

I think this is something a lot of people will be wondering

SligoLady

Revenue have said that the valuation bands are guidelines. It is up to you to self-assess and pay the tax on what you think is the current market value of your property. Revenue can query this if they think you've undervalued your property and you'll need to prove the value, ie. Recent comparable sales, Estate agents valuation report.
They have said the valuation will stand for 4 years and is then up for review so if you think your property is worth considerably less than Revenue's guide prices then it may be worth your while paying a valuer a small fee now to save paying a higher property tax over the next 4 years.

IME people have always over-valued their own property when selling it.. I imagine everyone will now be under-valuing! Although bear in mind, if you undervalue now and sell your property for a lot more or happen to die and the property is valued much higher, you/your family will then be liable to pay the difference in tax anyway.

Daft.ie have a far superior property valuation guide so it's worth checking that before you do anything.

DieselPowered

SligoLady wrote: »

Revenue have said that the valuation bands are guidelines. It is up to you to self-assess and pay the tax on what you think is the current market value of your property. Revenue can query this if they think you've undervalued your property and you'll need to prove the value, ie. Recent comparable sales, Estate agents valuation report.
They have said the valuation will stand for 4 years and is then up for review so if you think your property is worth considerably less than Revenue's guide prices then it may be worth your while paying a valuer a small fee now to save paying a higher property tax over the next 4 years.

I think there will be a problem in estate type housing locations where most people who may consider selling over the next few years will value their house on the higher side in the hope that they may get a better price down the road, but that could lead to a situation where the self assessed value would/could be similar to the Revenue's notice of estimate value (which according to most people seems to be overvalued/high) and this in turn would make folks who self assessed to a lower category look like they undervalued in the eyes of Revenue.

If the majority of people in in an estate go with a value between a certain band, it will make others stand out in a lower band (even if they fairly believe their valuation is correct).

We will have to wait and see.

slapbangwallop

Geuze wrote: »

Forced sale or not, we don't know.

The most recent sale is the market value.

An asking price is not a true value.

You can ask as much as you like.

But until somebody puts their hand in their pocket, an actual market value can't be established.

That's not correct.

Market Value implys a willing seller and buyer. A Forced Sale scenario skews that definition and can blight the marketing of a property and is therefore NOT considered true Market Value.