post collision non treatment by paramedics

Slyderx1

say hypothetically that one was involved in a single person collision that left the the vehicle jammed between two branches of the tree with the drivers compartment crushed but miraculously you appeared with minor cuts and scratches though with a whiff of alcohol.
The gardai arrive first and while waiting for the ambulance arrest you on suspicion of drunk driving and question you before the paramedics have examined you. The gardai say that you declined to be taken to hospital and back at the garda station no doctor was called.
What is the procedure for medics post collision where a person may be in mild shock .cut and scratched. Surely best practice would dictate a trip to casualty for internal injury etc.
If i am in the wrong discussion section mod please move.

Beano

Seems a very unlikely scenario. If the drivers compartment was crushed then you would need to be cut out of the car by the fire brigade. No guard in their right mind would take you out of such a vehicle without assistance from DFB. The potential liability if you had a spinal injury would be massive.

Slyderx1 wrote: »

... The gardai say that you declined to be taken to hospital and back at the garda station no doctor was called.

Say to who? Are you saying that medical treatment was requested but the request was ignored?

Slyderx1

Not as unlikely as you might think lol But to answer your second question the Garda Member in charge at the station has to fill out a custody record and whilst the box on the form only refers to a request for medical attention I assume that the MIC can call one of his own initiative

ibebanging

If you refuse treatment from the paramedics, the paras will satisfy themselves that 1. You are aware of the clinical situation 2. The potential consequences if treatment declined 3. Recommend you seek an alternative care plan.
If you have the capacity you have the right to refuse treatment even if you are making the wrong decision.
"Shock" is a medical term referring to stages of blood loss, I think your describing "fright".
So if you refuse treatment it's your decision, no the fault of paramedic.
Many patients are under arrest when treated and the Garda stays with the patient.
I've never seen a patient in a prison or Garda custody refused medical treatment.

Slyderx1

ibebanging wrote: »

If you refuse treatment from the paramedics, the paras will satisfy themselves that 1. You are aware of the clinical situation 2. The potential consequences if treatment declined 3. Recommend you seek an alternative care plan.
If you have the capacity you have the right to refuse treatment even if you are making the wrong decision.
"Shock" is a medical term referring to stages of blood loss, I think your describing "fright".
So if you refuse treatment it's your decision, no the fault of paramedic.
Many patients are under arrest when treated and the Garda stays with the patient.
I've never seen a patient in a prison or Garda custody refused medical treatment.

Thanks, that probably helps but the scenario involved what apparently was a very serious car crash and a survivor who was scratched and bleeding slightly but I take your point .

meathstevie

The Gardai on the scene would simply make sure that you get all the medical care you could require and if that means hospitalisation they'd just get a doctor to get evidential blood or urine samples if they reckon you're over the drink driving limit.

If you refuse medical assistance after arrival of an ambulance/EMT all the ordinary arrest and sampling procedures would apply.

I still need to meet the first Garda who would refuse someone access to medical assitance and lie about it, first of all because the overwhelming majority are decent folks and second because the risks are phenomenal if they'd deny you medical assistance.

Slyderx1

meathstevie wrote: »

The Gardai on the scene would simply make sure that you get all the medical care you could require and if that means hospitalisation they'd just get a doctor to get evidential blood or urine samples if they reckon you're over the drink driving limit.

If you refuse medical assistance after arrival of an ambulance/EMT all the ordinary arrest and sampling procedures would apply.

I still need to meet the first Garda who would refuse someone access to medical assitance and lie about it, first of all because the overwhelming majority are decent folks and second because the risks are phenomenal if they'd deny you medical assistance.

nobody is lying in this scenario...the point I am trying to grasp is can someone be assessed and left on the side of the road after a serious accident irrespective of 'I'm ok thanks' attitude ?
As a matter of interest by his own admission the Garda chose to interview and arrest the defendant before the ambulance staff assessed the injured party. There was no intoximeter produced or sought.

ResearchWill

Slyderx1 wrote: »

nobody is lying in this scenario...the point I am trying to grasp is can someone be assessed and left on the side of the road after a serious accident irrespective of 'I'm ok thanks' attitude ?
As a matter of interest by his own admission the Garda chose to interview and arrest the defendant before the ambulance staff assessed the injured party. There was no intoximeter produced or sought.

If a person was in fact injured and refused medical assistance and it later came out that he was in fact injuries there may be a medical negligence issue.

The secon point any interviews may not be admissible but each case has its own facts and legal advice should be sought if charges are pending. There is no need to produce a roadside test as AGS have power to arrest after RTA for the purpose of medical sample or breath test.

Kristopherus

Slyderx1 wrote: »

nobody is lying in this scenario...the point I am trying to grasp is can someone be assessed and left on the side of the road after a serious accident irrespective of 'I'm ok thanks' attitude ?
As a matter of interest by his own admission the Garda chose to interview and arrest the defendant before the ambulance staff assessed the injured party. There was no intoximeter produced or sought.

Did you not say it was a hypothetical scenario. Your quote above appears factual, to me anyway. Did this actually happen or not?

Slyderx1

Kristopherus wrote: »

Did you not say it was a hypothetical scenario. Your quote above appears factual, to me anyway. Did this actually happen or not?

As I pointed out in my originating question the solution I am looking for is perhaps based on medical procedure post accident rather than the legal sequelae which may or may not flow from the surrounding circumstances...hmmm reminds me of demonic questions on the Law Society paper so I understand your point of view lol

Peregrinus

Slyderx1 wrote: »

nobody is lying in this scenario...the point I am trying to grasp is can someone be assessed and left on the side of the road after a serious accident irrespective of 'I'm ok thanks' attitude ?

Yes. You can always refuse medical treatment, and if someobody persists in treating you after you have declined treatment, that's an assault. Paramedics may attempt to persuade you to change your mind but if you won't, you won't. If you are apparently aware of your circumstances, and capable of the use of reason, then it would be extremely risk for any paramedic to refuse to respect your decision not to be treated. They certainly can't override your decision merely because they think it's unwise.

As for the guards, they are not involved in the medical issues at all (unless they, e.g., take you to the station before the medics arrive, or otherwise interfere with your ability to get medically assessed and treated). There is no objection to them interviewing or arresting you while they wait for the medics to arrive.