Buying bitcoins

el diablo

petr1 wrote: »

What's the cheapest way to buy now?

Didn't know GDAX was shut...turned in to coinbase pro or something which seems to be down at the minute aswell.

So whats cheapest/easiest now?

A SEPA transfer to Kraken and put in a limit order is the cheapest in my opinion.

Grumpypants

But kraken falls over every time something big happens and you can neither buy, sell or withdraw. I've lost at least a grand because of it before i closed my account.

Kuva

Grumpypants wrote: »

But kraken falls over every time something big happens and you can neither buy, sell or withdraw. I've lost at least a grand because of it before i closed my account.

Think that happens to all of them?

Tango One

Grumpypants wrote: »

But kraken falls over every time something big happens and you can neither buy, sell or withdraw. I've lost at least a grand because of it before i closed my account.

Is that since all the upgrade work a few months back.

Grumpypants

I gave up on them about 8-9 months ago so not sure if it got better. But volume over all has been so low recently that i don't think it's been tested properly.

makeorbrake

Tango One wrote: »

Is that since all the upgrade work a few months back.

In fairness, I have not heard of them coming in for that sort of criticism since January. Most of them got caught with their pants down back then.

Dohnjoe

nuac wrote: »

Thanks, but in Bitcoin have we anything approaching a free market?

Isn't the market controlled and manipulated by those "whales"?

A free market is inherently manipulated and influenced. By what degree is up for debate. The main issue with this market is that one coin is so dominant and exerts a push/pull on the whole market.

august12

petr1 wrote:

What's the cheapest way to buy now?

Coinbase pro same as gdax, the two are amalgamated into one, you can still do limit buy and sell for free.

Pussyhands

BTC running riot.

dinneenp

Pussyhands wrote: »

BTC running riot.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2018/07/24/bitcoin-just-hit-8000-heres-whats-pushing-it-up/#12e9db8888f5

makeorbrake

Is this just a bull trap? Will the market fall back again if the ETF isn't approved next month? There's no doubt that there's going to be a take back - and wealth will transfer back to the institutions. However, have they cleared enough of the dumb money out of the way?

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

Is this just a bull trap? Will the market fall back again if the ETF isn't approved next month? There's no doubt that there's going to be a take back - and wealth will transfer back to the institutions. However, have they cleared enough of the dumb money out of the way?

Absolutely could be, but even a bull trap is better than a drawn out bear (like 2014 to early 2017). Let's say BTC rises steadily for 3 weeks then falls sharply on bad ETF news - as long as the drop isn't "as bad" as the worst point in the last 6 months, then it's good

It shows that the market isn't completely dominated by fear and no confidence and a pattern of rises quickly culled by bears

I think that ETF has a decent chance too, much of the market infrastructure and regulatory aspects simply weren't around 2 or 3 years ago. Even if it fails, I wouldn't be surprised to see a successful filing at some point in the future

We'll see - the number one thing about this market is how unexpected it is

Pussyhands

What is the idea of the ETF exactly? What would it do?

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Absolutely could be, but even a bull trap is better than a drawn out bear (like 2014 to early 2017). Let's say BTC rises steadily for 3 weeks then falls sharply on bad ETF news - as long as the drop isn't "as bad" as the worst point in the last 6 months, then it's good

I guess so - albeit that I'm not all that bothered so long as the actual technology itself is being worked on. Markets correct themselves one way or another. A long grinding bear market is boring I'd imagine from a speculators point of view but if the tech delivers, it will manifest itself in the markets at some stage in any event.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I think that ETF has a decent chance too, much of the market infrastructure and regulatory aspects simply weren't around 2 or 3 years ago.

It's literally impossible to know. In reviewing the material that's being put out there, media are now relying on reports from a former SEC employee and from another current employee....very tenuous stuff. There can't be any confidence in it going either way. I'd be inclined towards a negative as they don't usually approve an ETF at the first attempt (and whilst there have been many other crypto etf applications, this is the first from the CBOE). They would usually request further clarification or kick the can down the road and delay the decision.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Even if it fails, I wouldn't be surprised to see a successful filing at some point in the future

Without a doubt. Its an inevitability - and I don't think it will be long...it just doesn't sound like it will be this time to me. I suppose I'm also working on the hunch (and of course it's no more than that!) that the old money wants to drive out the young $ - before they move in to the space.
For those of us that have been following this space over the past year (and longer), it may seem like an age since the madness of Dec/Jan but it's not really that long ago. People by nature don't have much in the way of patience. There simply doesn't seem to be any way of proving it but I would not be in any way surprised if this is a final bull trap to clear out the dumb money. Only time will tell though.

In the meantime, I'm just wondering on how best to approach the decision day. Presumably we should see some fall back if it's knocked back...i'm less sure what a 45 day delay will do?? ...as regards a confirmation, its clear what that will do. Has anyone tried to get in on the action at the time of a decision confirmation? Presumably things move in the space of a milisecond?

Not having touched the market since January, I went back in for a week - and made a 17% gain (on 15% of funds...i'm not mad enough to go all in!). However, I missed the overnight pump which would have more or less doubled that. I'll be thankful for what I got but there's a lot to learn for those of us not used to the ways of markets (and highly volatile markets at that).

makeorbrake

Pussyhands wrote: »

What is the idea of the ETF exactly? What would it do?

The ETF makes speculation on bitcoin/crypto possible for institutional investors. The established money have systems in place and ways of working. They won't rock up with a hardware wallet and go onto coinbase and buy crypto!

So...if an exchange (in this case the CBOE) or a fund is given permission to list an exchange traded fund, that opens up the market to institutional money. Crypto has been unique in that it's possibly the first time in history that an emerging market has been brought up the way by grass roots - without a cent of institutional money. They missed out on the initial party - they don't want to continue to leave money on the table.

Crypto market cap is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. However, if that sort of buying power was let loose on it, the likelihood is that the price will be driven up.

The only thing that confuses me is that we already have an ETF (GBTC) - its just not under the watch of the SEC and not on the 1st tier markets. It makes me wonder what the fuss is all about as this fund is available to institutions is it not? I don't have the background in the whole trading game to understand that. Perhaps someone else here does??

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

In the meantime, I'm just wondering on how best to approach the decision day. Presumably we should see some fall back if it's knocked back...i'm less sure what a 45 day delay will do?? ...as regards a confirmation, its clear what that will do. Has anyone tried to get in on the action at the time of a decision confirmation? Presumably things move in the space of a milisecond?

With this one I have no idea, I typically look at a similar situation in the past and then apply the rule of traders being one (or two) steps ahead of that, with hindsight

Not having touched the market since January, I went back in for a week - and made a 17% gain (on 15% of funds...i'm not mad enough to go all in!). However, I missed the overnight pump which would have more or less doubled that. I'll be thankful for what I got but there's a lot to learn for those of us not used to the ways of markets (and highly volatile markets at that).

Best advice for long term holding stands up well, buy when no one else is talking about crypto and everyone is selling. Yeah to time that is the tricky part, but there's no harm mitigating the risk by buying in stages

Grumpypants

Certainly, some green shoots around after the long winter. The Goldman sachs' news last week, Google and Facebook lifting their Crypto bans this week and a general turn in sentiment has seen a little bump. Take it nice and handy now and trickle its way back to the moon.

yoshimitsu

makeorbrake wrote: »

The ETF makes speculation on bitcoin/crypto possible for institutional investors. The established money have systems in place and ways of working. They won't rock up with a hardware wallet and go onto coinbase and buy crypto!

So...if an exchange (in this case the CBOE) or a fund is given permission to list an exchange traded fund, that opens up the market to institutional money. Crypto has been unique in that it's possibly the first time in history that an emerging market has been brought up the way by grass roots - without a cent of institutional money. They missed out on the initial party - they don't want to continue to leave money on the table.

Crypto market cap is miniscule in the grand scheme of things. However, if that sort of buying power was let loose on it, the likelihood is that the price will be driven up.

The only thing that confuses me is that we already have an ETF (GBTC) - its just not under the watch of the SEC and not on the 1st tier markets. It makes me wonder what the fuss is all about as this fund is available to institutions is it not? I don't have the background in the whole trading game to understand that. Perhaps someone else here does??

It's important to point out that "institutional investors" largely invest retail/pension money. It's not that Goldman Sachs, Blackrock and all other players that have expressed interest in cryptos over the last few months will be investing material money out of their own balance sheet. Blackrock is the world's largest asset manager (6.3 trillion dollars in assets under management)... those funds are the savings of retail investors, pension funds (which ultimately belong to individual workers), university endowment funds and some sovereign wealth funds (rich governments). A SEC approved ETF allows these people to get an exposure to the crypto asset class in a regulated/supervised vehicle. It may be fine for us to dibble and dabble through coinbase/kraken/revolut/robin hood and the likes but if you are a high net worth individual or a large pension fund you dont want your account hacked, or a local regulator imposing bans/limits or all the other shenanigans that happened in the past. you want to buy a security (that's ultimately what an ETF is) that -although it may be very volatile in value - has limited risk of fraud/failure. If you're Blackrock, you want to avoid being sued by your customers because you bought cryptos through non-legit way. A SEC regulated ETF avoids that risk.
There was a Global Wealth Management report put out by CapGemini recently (I think it's freely available on the web) that found a strong interest, in particular from Asian institutional investors, to acquire an exposure to cryptos as part of diversified portfolio of stocks, bonds, real estate, commodities and all other traditional asset classes. It may not be a predominant exposure but people are starting to realize that the returns on cyrptos can be attractive but in particular they are not correlated to the returns of most other established asset classes, so they provide diversification = less risk in a diversified portfolio. So if trump starts an all out global trade war, if the Fed decides to hike rates by 300 basis points, if Oil prices collapse because Iran is allowed to export more... crypto returns shouldnt be affected and may provide an important hedge in your portfolio.

I work in the asset management industry and - believe me - the above is a very powerful proposition.
As to how to trade the event, I have no clue! I bought my first bitcoin in Dec 2017 and have held on to it through the ups (and especially) downs so I dont feel I'm entitled to give any meaningful/reliable advice. General rule of investing though is that you have to look at risk/reward and given the strong bounce from the lows I wouldn't be going into the event (the SEC decision) with a full load. just my 2c... interested in getting feedback from more experienced traders

makeorbrake

yoshimitsu wrote: »

A SEC approved ETF allows these people to get an exposure to the crypto asset class in a regulated/supervised vehicle. It may be fine for us to dibble and dabble through coinbase/kraken/revolut/robin hood and the likes but if you are a high net worth individual or a large pension fund you dont want your account hacked, or a local regulator imposing bans/limits or all the other shenanigans that happened in the past. you want to buy a security (that's ultimately what an ETF is) that -although it may be very volatile in value - has limited risk of fraud/failure. If you're Blackrock, you want to avoid being sued by your customers because you bought cryptos through non-legit way. A SEC regulated ETF avoids that risk.

I accept that completely - i.e. they would be deemed to be negligent to use the exchanges that we use in their current format. However, are you saying then that simply because it doesn't come under the auspices of the SEC, the Bitcoin Investment Trust (GBTC) could not be used by these institutions for investment purposes for the same reasons?

yoshimitsu wrote: »

It may not be a predominant exposure but people are starting to realize that the returns on cyrptos can be attractive but in particular they are not correlated to the returns of most other established asset classes, so they provide diversification = less risk in a diversified portfolio. So if trump starts an all out global trade war, if the Fed decides to hike rates by 300 basis points, if Oil prices collapse because Iran is allowed to export more... crypto returns shouldnt be affected and may provide an important hedge in your portfolio.

Trying to educate myself on this world but from what I can figure out, it seems to me to be the perfect hedge (or at least equal to any other hedge that's currently being used). I think the next true test of bitcoin is the next major market slump and to what extent people use it as a shelter from a major bear market.

yoshimitsu wrote: »

As to how to trade the event, I have no clue! I bought my first bitcoin in Dec 2017 and have held on to it through the ups (and especially) downs so I dont feel I'm entitled to give any meaningful/reliable advice. General rule of investing though is that you have to look at risk/reward and given the strong bounce from the lows I wouldn't be going into the event (the SEC decision) with a full load. just my 2c... interested in getting feedback from more experienced traders

I take your point. In my own scenario, I've kind of being forced to go back in to crypto in order to extract my $ from an exchange and make it available to invest in the conventional market (I'll spare you the tedium of why..but it's just something related to the shortcomings of existing crypto exchanges).

Other than that, there's so much 'buy the rumour, sell on the news' going on. This (the SEC decision) was known about a long time ago....so how is it suddenly a dramatic piece of news the last few days..

yoshimitsu

makeorbrake wrote: »

I accept that completely - i.e. they would be deemed to be negligent to use the exchanges that we use in their current format. However, are you saying then that simply because it doesn't come under the auspices of the SEC, the Bitcoin Investment Trust (GBTC) could not be used by these institutions for investment purposes for the same reasons?

Well in my firm for example we are only allowed to buy units/shares in UCITS funds/ETFs. UCITS is a EU directive that regulates these instruments much in the same way that an SEC approval would. Just a few examples: there are minimum liquidity requirements; funds have to be open-ended and easily redeemable; funds have to segregated between the ETF manager and custodian; etc. I'm not too familiar with GBTC but I know it's traded over-the-counter rather than on an exchange and liquidity is quite limited.

grindle

makeorbrake wrote: »

This (the SEC decision) was known about a long time ago....so how is it suddenly a dramatic piece of news the last few days..

Well, there are two possible outcomes - ETF/No ETF - both mean profit for the wealthy or those with the means to trade news earlier (Bloomberg Pro users get news earlier than anybody else as it can be used to set alerts for pre-defined keywords or combinations thereof, like a fancy instantaneous finance RSS feed, costs ~$25k a year for a terminal).
There's no point buying in and causing a run up too soon before the date, might as well let the market lay entrenched in suicidal despair and buy at cheaper spot prices. If ETF is confirmed there'll probably be typical crypto movements selling the news and they can take advantage of that again. Or maybe they start that movement themselves because they're patient and know how stupid the average crypto trader is ("These guys sure like buying back higher!"). They can sell a portion of whatever they've bought and cause mass panic, $1b of a BTC sell-off would drive it back under $6k in a day or two, there's not that much buy pressure and bulls will pull their buy walls to make sure they're not getting their longs minced if they're leveraged.
If the ETF fails they'll sell before average crypto users have a chance to.
Win/Win. For them. And ultimately hodlers. Anybody trading this kind of news based on TA and without inside info is well past "borderline retarded".

Trading based on the barely-there fundamentals of crypto is gambling. Day-trading crypto based on memelines is an extra layer of gambling on top, margin on top of that multiplies the risk. Trading news in a game that wealthy people explicitly do not want you to win is like a coinflip kamikaze mission.

Also, there's a CME futures expiration date tomorrow, there's a good chance we could see a pull-back in the next day or two depending on who wins that gamble.

makeorbrake

grindle wrote: »

Well, there are two possible outcomes - ETF/No ETF

Well, there's a third category - they can just delay the decision and kick the can down the road for another 45 days or so. Not sure how that news is likely to be interpreted...i guess a mixed unclear reaction?...no different to what the thoughts are right now..

grindle wrote: »

both mean profit for the wealthy or those with the means to trade news earlier (Bloomberg Pro users get news earlier than anybody else as it can be used to set alerts for pre-defined keywords or combinations thereof, like a fancy instantaneous finance RSS feed, costs ~$25k a year for a terminal).

I figured the big, old money would have mechanisms to get in before - I was never in any doubt it would be any other way!

grindle wrote: »

If the ETF fails they'll sell before average crypto users have a chance to. Win/Win. For them.

And I guess this is where I'm intrigued. I don't even need to know - I can work on the assumption that the big old money will get in first regardless of the decision. What I'm wondering is - is a run up or down already more or less formed by the time they're done? Is there an opportunity to get in before other amateurs in time to gain on a price run up? I've never tried to jump in in that sort of scenario before so don't know how it pans out.

grindle wrote: »

Anybody trading this kind of news based on TA and without inside info is well past "borderline retarded".
Trading based on the barely-there fundamentals of crypto is gambling. Day-trading crypto based on memelines is an extra layer of gambling on top, margin on top of that multiplies the risk. Trading news in a game that wealthy people explicitly do not want you to win is like a coinflip kamikaze mission.

Well, I've become totally disillusioned with the 'news'. I think it's a complete and utter waste of my time at this stage (for the most part) as you can believe nothing.
On TA, despite all the warnings, I'm taking a look at it. It doesn't claim to read tea leaves but it's totally disconnected from 'the news'. It's an indicator of 'probabilities' rather than a set of analysis tools that claims to predict anything. It most certainly can't be any worse than following the garbage 'news'. Additionally, there's an element of self fulfilled prophecy with it as if people use it, then it reinforces all of these resistance and support lines, etc.
That said, I'd be more about approaching this decision in a 'if-then' type of way. i.e. it's logical that the price would go up on an approval and should fall back some on a knock back. After that, to me its a question of whether you can get in either side of that at a price that you consider good value.

We're really looking at a specific short term event in this instance. However, having read some of your past posts, you seem to have a better process in terms of primary fundamental analysis that works for you. I have not been able to muster this together in a way that I'd have confidence in it. Then again, it may be that I'm lacking a background in the tech generally that serves you well in carrying out that analysis..

grindle wrote: »

Also, there's a CME futures expiration date tomorrow, there's a good chance we could see a pull-back in the next day or two depending on who wins that gamble.

I still don't understand how futures are affecting the market. Basically isn't it a case that it's the amount between long and short futures at the settlement stage that is relevant? If this amount isn't all that sizeable, how does it affect the actual market? I'm not seeing it.

Pussyhands

I was listening to a podcast and isn't there a risk that Bitcoin getting an ETF will require regulation?

Would the SEC allow an ETF of an unregulated asset? I think there was talk of SEC wanting coinbase etc to be regulated more.

makeorbrake

Pussyhands wrote: »

I was listening to a podcast and isn't there a risk that Bitcoin getting an ETF will require regulation?

Would the SEC allow an ETF of an unregulated asset? I think there was talk of SEC wanting coinbase etc to be regulated more.

That's a consideration of theirs (and has been for previous ETF applications) in arriving at a decision. They may or may not feel that significant progress has been made on that front and of course, CBOE have insurance in place in this instance so it's an improvement on previous applications.

grindle

makeorbrake wrote: »

Well, there's a third category - they can just delay the decision and kick the can down the road for another 45 days or so. Not sure how that news is likely to be interpreted...i guess a mixed unclear reaction?...no different to what the thoughts are right now..

Option 'No ETF' is always a temporary thing so includes the Option 3 can-kick to my eyes. I can't see how they can keep it from happening at this stage - their regulatory cconcerns have to be met at some point, just a matter of when.

makeorbrake wrote: »

What I'm wondering is - is a run up or down already more or less formed by the time they're done? Is there an opportunity to get in before other amateurs in time to gain on a price run up?

The rails for an up or downswing are set up but these millionaires and billionaires putting their private money in before anything happens will have quants and traders analysing every tick and repositioning of walls, they'll be alert. They're used to a market dominated by small percentage gains so the ease with which they can flip for 5-10% gains with big money on the table is like a dream for them.

makeorbrake wrote: »

On TA, despite all the warnings, I'm taking a look at it. It doesn't claim to read tea leaves but it's totally disconnected from 'the news'. It's an indicator of 'probabilities' rather than a set of analysis tools that claims to predict anything. It most certainly can't be any worse than following the garbage 'news'. Additionally, there's an element of self fulfilled prophecy with it as if people use it, then it reinforces all of these resistance and support lines, etc.
That said, I'd be more about approaching this decision in a 'if-then' type of way.

TA works fine until it doesn't, it only works when the market acts kind of normally (well, as normally as it can). Every dump or mooning destroys it and leaves you sad for watching the charts so closely.
Case in point, me looking at charts - I could have made a decent sum of money with GoChain recently if I'd only held, instead it was moving sideways and I got bored of watching bots push the price up and down - at the same exact time every couple of hours ffs, how could I resist?
Instead of a 500% gain I ended up with a paltry 30% gain and a heavy heart.

makeorbrake wrote: »

...you seem to have a better process in terms of primary fundamental analysis that works for you. I have not been able to muster this together in a way that I'd have confidence in it. Then again, it may be that I'm lacking a background in the tech generally that serves you well in carrying out that analysis..

1. I got lucky. I've also been unlucky and have been burnt. No exit-scams (yet) but product delays and impatient dumpers have hobbled some of my litany of shítcoins. The craziest/best thing about this market is you can have 1 good hit out 10 with the other being 9 relatively dismal failures and that one good pick can have you in profit.

makeorbrake wrote: »

I still don't understand how futures are affecting the market. Basically isn't it a case that it's the amount between long and short futures at the settlement stage that is relevant? If this amount isn't all that sizeable, how does it affect the actual market? I'm not seeing it.

The futures don't directly affect the market but traders can affect the market to affect the outcome of the futures in order to skim more profits. I'd be surprised to learn talented traders/quants/whales weren't taking advantage. Maybe they aren't.
It's a case of them having their cake and eating it in my eyes. Or the futures are the icing to their cake. Whatever the case, they're having cake & it's tasty and it scares me, because while I'm a glutton I hate leveraging my cake and then having my cake taken away from me. I'd much rather hold onto my cake (which - unreasonably enough for cake - has somehow gotten tastier with time. Could be an Xmas cake?) and sell it to someone else who's hungry for it in the future just like every other property owner who waits for their market to heat up before selling.

Bonus cake pic.

Dohnjoe

grindle wrote: »

The craziest/best thing about this market is you can have 1 good hit out 10 with the other being 9 relatively dismal failures and that one good pick can have you in profit.

Absolutely.

You have to share, any projects outside (or inside) the top 200 you have your eye on? obviously out of the ICO stage

Sometimes a coin will gnaw away at me, I just have to buy it, even a tiny amount (personally I hold, I don't dare attempt buying/selling)

makeorbrake

An illuminating post as always Grindle....particularly the confectionery section

In essence, you're saying that you can't really get particulary comfy in doing any type of short term trade except maybe hitting upon a diamond amongst some turd coins at the ICO stage.

I was always of a mind to stay long for the most part. I just have cause to move some $ out of an exchange and back through crypto ...so is the only reason that's brought me to checkout a few shorter term plays. Have gotten away with it this time but may not be so lucky next time....but then at previous prices, i was happy to hold it. Wouldn't be so sure about right now as I feel it will drop down again just yet.

The futures thing I guess i was only looking from one side of the equation and not the other.

grindle wrote: »

Option 'No ETF' is always a temporary thing so includes the Option 3 can-kick to my eyes. I can't see how they can keep it from happening at this stage - their regulatory cconcerns have to be met at some point, just a matter of when.

Sure - it's an inevitability - especially with the demand rising from their side of the fence - but it certainly doesn't have to be over the next few weeks.

banie01

All this talk of the ETF has reminded that I still hold a little of the XBT ETN 😉
Completely forgot about it, not that it's worth anymore I fecking paid for it.

grindle

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Absolutely.

You have to share, any projects outside (or inside) the top 200 you have your eye on? obviously out of the ICO stage

Sometimes a coin will gnaw away at me, I just have to buy it, even a tiny amount (personally I hold, I don't dare attempt buying/selling)

I still have my eye on GoChain but waiting to enter at or under 0.0001

That buy may never hit but I know there are a ton of people who've bought at 0.00004 so there's still a lot of potentially impatient people waiting to dump and the sell wall currently looks much more imposing than the buy wall. Maybe that's part of somebody else's game?
Could easily be 60% loss or up 500% within a week so this is obviously not advice either way.
Their Telegram seems small enough, #8.9k - until you see that they had an airdrop in China and they've got 36k+Chinese on their own separate Telegram.
It's literally an unabashed ETH clone with far fewer nodes based out of separate businesses as a means of decentralisation (KuCoin being one of those nodes).

As an ETH clone any current ETH devs can copy/paste their code to GoChain and have their DApp working as if stage 2 of Casper had arrived, even if only as a temp measure until ETH's scaling is in place. Every update ETH gets, GO gets and they'll be keeping it that way - they want to be a scaling solution alongside ETH, not a blatant competitor.
They've got a couple of ICO's coming their way which could affect the price enormously - a $30m cap ICO on ETH barely dents ETH's cap, a $30m cap ICO on GO (if the ICO is popular) would drive the price up enormously, it would require an enormous coordinated effort for it not to. If people want GoldenShítTokenX and need $30m worth of GO to fund it while GO's cap is currently $33m... If they get a big ICO to launch on their platform then GO is a veritable moon mission in itself.

Neufund. A community funded VC firm, your tokens entitle you to a share of any profits and I'd think "eh, anybody could do that or pretend to do that" until I saw Binance are involved (though they still aren't listed there yet) and their list of contributors (for picking firms/companies to fund) is a who's who list of shít-hot devs and tech bigwigs (scroll down).

Aeon if privacy coins don't get crippled by regulations. Works like Monero but faster and cheaper, Smooth (XMR Core dev) is the lead dev here but it is slow moving, sometimes gets used to test ideas which aren't considered to be appropriate for XMR yet. Litecoin to XMR's Bitcoin in a way but this market is so small that a bull market could see developers and a community swarm towards it if they deem it to be a more appropriate concern while XMR's fees get higher (high fees aren't useful to those terrible markets privacy coins get used on, absolutely awful...are you hearing me, FBI? Really terrible use-case, eugh! Why on earth should people want fungible, usable money, to be able to spend as they wish, so gross, I mean... Makes me sick. Privacy and freedom, makes me sick.) Not saying it could or should overtake XMR but it could easily hit 1/10 of it's cap.

Metronome. Kind of like WAN, has blockchain interoperability as it's focus. May work, may not. Has J.Garzik as head dev - he's a bit of a slime but he's also a hard worker and one of the few BTC devs who isn't a maximalist. ICO distribution was obscene though, basically 50% of the tokens lay in the hands of 3 buyers, stupid Dutch auction ICO.

There are other shítcoins which are much riskier and appear dead if you were to look at their charts but I'm speaking with those devs a bit and check their gits often enough to know that they're just working and don't care about price at all right now, but I couldn't in good conscience mention them because the devs could kill the projects tomorrow as failures and there would be absolutely no liquidity left to save your hard-earned.

makeorbrake wrote: »

Sure - it's an inevitability - especially with the demand rising from their side of the fence - but it certainly doesn't have to be over the next few weeks.

It could easily be a shorting game for them. Buy billions-worth OTC at low prices, pump a bit into the big exchanges, set those buy walls and push the price up, sell at peak once enough buy walls exist ahead of their own. Who knows? Even fairly large characters like Novogratz or Arrington speak of crypto-whales as manipulative phantoms who're working against their own wishes, but they could just be poker-facing.

I'd love to know how coordinated these feckers are. Makes my foil hat tingle.

Dohnjoe

Thanks Grindle, great insight as always

makeorbrake

Following on from discussion re. the SEC - earlier today they knocked back another application from the Winklevii for their ETF citing concerns over market manipulation. I doubt very much the other one will be approved. They will knock it back and eventually we will have one approved either very late 2018 or early 2019.


The price will be driven down sufficiently first - and clear out some more amateurs before old money finally gets it's mitts on it.

rob316

Back down we go

asteroids over berlin

i see the pessimists are still around. Treat your investment as an investment, patience, go take a year out. BTC is not going to crash, it will go up. The market is turning (slowly), yes the Bro's ETF proposal was shot down but there are others (which will probably be shot down), it will happen though. Believe in your investments or more so the actual projects you have thoroughly researched, they will pay off. Patience. Anyway, talk to you in another 2 months.

makeorbrake

asteroids over berlin wrote: »

i see the pessimists are still around. Treat your investment as an investment, patience, go take a year out. BTC is not going to crash, it will go up. The market is turning (slowly), yes the Bro's ETF proposal was shot down but there are others (which will probably be shot down), it will happen though. Believe in your investments or more so the actual projects you have thoroughly researched, they will pay off. Patience. Anyway, talk to you in another 2 months.

I'm not pessimistic overall - quite the opposite. However, I do still expect a significant dip in the shorter term before things bounce back fully.

makeorbrake

So the SEC kicked the can down the road - decision deferred to next month.

Bob24

makeorbrake wrote: »

So the SEC kicked the can down the road - decision deferred to next month.

And that seems to have triggered a serious dip for all coins!

makeorbrake

Bob24 wrote: »

And that seems to have triggered a serious dip for all coins!

What's the return policy on a Lambo?

el diablo

Anyone think we'll break $5,800 again?

Shauny2010

If Bitcoin drops below $6000 that would be an extremely bearish position. I'd be liquidating all cryptos at that stage as it would signal a drop much lower.
But at the moment its holding so if it stays above $6000 then it still on a Bull run

Shauny2010

Shauny2010 wrote: »

If Bitcoin drops below $6000 that would be an extremely bearish position. I'd be liquidating all cryptos at that stage as it would signal a drop much lower.
But at the moment its holding so if it stays above $6000 then it still on a Bull run

Why is 6k the turning point?

Didn't it drop t below 6k a few months ago, and rebound to over 9k ?

Shauny2010

It did, and it has tested $6k 3 times since the ATH in December. It may well bounce back again, its more likely that it would go and test new lows instead.

Shauny2010

Shauny2010 wrote: »

It did, and it has tested $6k 3 times since the ATH in December. It may well bounce back again, its more likely that it would go and test new lows instead.

Perhaps it will. Why is it more likely though?

cnocbui

This is potentially interesting: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/15/fidelity-launches-trade-execution-and-custody-for-cryptocurrencies.html

Fidelity Investments, which administers more than $7.2 trillion in client assets, announced a new and separate company called Fidelity Digital Asset Services Monday.
The firm will handle custody for cryptocurrencies like bitcoin, and will execute trades on multiple exchanges for investors like hedge funds and family offices.
Other crypto companies have debuted similar products but Fidelity is the first Wall Street incumbent to officially provide cryptocurrency solutions like custody.
“Our goal is to make digitally-native assets, such as bitcoin, more accessible to investors,” Fidelity Investments Chairman and CEO Abigail Johnson says.

cnocbui

Coinbase is opening an office in Dublin due to brexit fears.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-15/coinbase-opens-office-in-dublin-as-brexit-contingency-plan?srnd=premium-europe

Grumpypants

cnocbui wrote: »

Coinbase is opening an office in Dublin due to brexit fears.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-15/coinbase-opens-office-in-dublin-as-brexit-contingency-plan?srnd=premium-europe

Collect our lambos in person

cnocbui

Grumpypants wrote: »

Collect our lambos in person

I'm beyond the pail, they can deliver mine.

Thargor

Grumpypants wrote: »

Collect our lambos in person

Or if it all goes to sh1t just call in and demand your money back

makeorbrake

cnocbui wrote: »

This is potentially interesting: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/15/fidelity-launches-trade-execution-and-custody-for-cryptocurrencies.html

Followed up in this same week with Goldman Sachs investment in crypto custodian, BitGo.

They're gearing up for something as we've seen announcements like this practically every week for the past few months. These are the same lot that brought the 2008 scenario about - they'll get their mits on it as they won't have outsiders making $ on it, they'll probably make a tonne on it in the short-medium term and could set it up for a big fall.

But of course that's the greedy money end of it. The original ideologically-driven proponents of crypto must be having seizures seeing where this is headed! Hopefully, there will be a 2 track development...and there's still potential for the development of truly decentralised money and systems for the good of society.

makeorbrake

Morgan Stanley confirm what has been clear for a while now. i.e. the big money is moving into crypto.

cnocbui

makeorbrake wrote: »

Morgan Stanley confirm what has been clear for a while now. i.e. the big money is moving into crypto.

Geniuses. It should have been pretty obvious years ago that Bitcoin has many of the attributes of gold and is superior on many levels.