Buying bitcoins

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

Morgan Stanley confirm what has been clear for a while now. i.e. the big money is moving into crypto.

I would hardly say "big money" is going into BTC right now, far from it, but the foundations are (very slowly) being laid. The system needs to be extremely robust and compliant - from a FMI perspective this is happening gradually. Personally I am excited about a 3 to 5 year period.

The above link is crypto blog site, which typically put a selective and positive sheen on things

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I would hardly say "big money" is going into BTC right now, far from it, but the foundations are (very slowly) being laid.

I guess I wasn't clear in what I was saying but that's what I meant. We've had announcements week on week. Last week it was Fidelity Investments, Goldman Sachs and Galaxy Digital. The foundation or ecosystem is getting built out.

I don't expect there to be a major pump in a short space of time, this will be a slow burner - but the point is that they're taking control of it. This is no longer the domain of retail investors dominated by homegrown crypto upstarts such as coinbase and binance, etc.

Whelo79

More than likely irrelevant but we do like to dream.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/9t68j3/this_is_the_first_time_weve_seen_bitcoin_close/

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

The foundation or ecosystem is getting built out.

Oh yeah bigtime. The largest custody and safekeeping institutions in the world are currently developing and implementing groundwork for secure custody of crypto assets and development of blockchain and DL tech

6541

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Oh yeah bigtime. The largest custody and safekeeping institutions in the world are currently developing and implementing groundwork for secure custody of crypto assets and development of blockchain and DL tech

but will it be bitcoin ?

cnocbui

6541 wrote: »

but will it be bitcoin ?

Bitcoins market cap is 5.5 times that of the next highest cap crypto - Etherium. It would be very surprising if not.

Dohnjoe

6541 wrote: »

but will it be bitcoin ?

They directly mention digital and crypto assets/tokens, so I presume any system that is built will be capable of servicing and providing custody for almost any type

We're talking about institutions which provide custody for e.g. $28 trillion in assets already

Also the new issue that was recently issued using blockchain and Ethereum is a pointer as to how banks may adopt existing cryptos rather than exclusively develop their own

Bob24

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They directly mention digital and crypto assets/tokens, so I presume any system that is built will be capable of servicing and providing custody for almost any type

Yeah I think it’s a safe assumption. All crypto assets are vastly similar and there is no big technical difference in what you need to do to safely store a BTC, ETH, XRP or most other cryptos.

So it wouldn’t seem like a wise strategy to build a custody solution which is closely tight to one specific type of asset and doesn’t allow for flexibility in what you can store with it.

Now depending on other factors they might decide to actually only offer the service for a small number of asset types and for exemple even if their solution is technically capable of doing it they might not bother offering dogecoin storage if there is too little demand from clients. But they would be in a situation to quickly evolve to changing demand and if for whatever reason many client started to ask for digecoin custody they would be in a position to make that available very easily.

makeorbrake

The market dictates. They provide a service, they'll list/hold whatever coins the market demands. For logistical reasons, it may start off as just a handful.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Whelo79 wrote: »

More than likely irrelevant but we do like to dream.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/9t68j3/this_is_the_first_time_weve_seen_bitcoin_close/

The comments on that :pac::pac::pac:

Truckermal

Angelo Sparse Sunflower wrote: »

The comments on that :pac::pac::pac:

They are all deluded every one of them...:p

nomwakao

I have earned some money speculating with crypto-currencies and I hold small amounts of Bitcoin (BTC), Bitcoin Cash (BCH), Dash, Ethereum Classic (ETC), Ethereum (Ether), Litecoin (LTC) and Ripple (XRP). However, I am Sceptical about cryptocurrencies as an investment and here I explain why: http://iitm.be/cryptos4asset

yegorzima

Hey! I remember how many people wanted to buy Bitcoins after its price rising last year and then I decided to invest my money too. I bought MotoCoin cryptocurrency and it works still.

kowloon

yegorzima wrote: »

Hey! I remember how many people wanted to buy Bitcoins after its price rising last year and then I decided to invest my money too. I bought MotoCoin cryptocurrency and it works still.

Well, that's me convinced.

Benildus

kowloon wrote: »

Well, that's me convinced.

Looking at these numbers it's hard to argue with him :rolleyes:

TallyRand

yegorzima wrote: »

Hey! I remember how many people wanted to buy Bitcoins after its price rising last year and then I decided to invest my money too. I bought MotoCoin cryptocurrency and it works still.

There are no scams. This must be an embryonic something or other, eh vaporware white paper..............move along

grindle

TallyRand wrote: »

There are no scams. This must be an embryonic something or other, eh vaporware white paper..............move along

There are a shítload of scams. This doesn't mean everything is a scam, so what point are you trying to make?

TallyRand

grindle wrote: »

There are a shítload of scams. This doesn't mean everything is a scam, so what point are you trying to make?

My point is I was lambasted by posters here shouting “there are no scams” “how could there be a scam, who is behind it” etc etc to ****load of scams.......just happy to b some concession on that point and we all move on

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

My point is I was lambasted by posters here shouting “there are no scams” “how could there be a scam, who is behind it” etc etc to ****load of scams.......just happy to b some concession on that point and we all move on

Concessions cut both ways. Still waiting for you to confirm that the cryptocurrency industry is a legitimate industry in it's own right, that bitcoin, ethereum and those coins which account for 95-98% of cryptocurrency market cap are not scams.


Here's my prediction - you will do anything BUT confirm that.

TallyRand

makeorbrake wrote: »

Concessions cut both ways. Still waiting for you to confirm that the cryptocurrency industry is a legitimate industry in it's own right, that bitcoin, ethereum and those coins which account for 95-98% of cryptocurrency market cap are not scams.


Here's my prediction - you will do anything BUT confirm that.

I think the intention of a few coins weren’t scams although I believe they are heavily manipulated.

I’d say 99% or coins were proper pump and dump scams, who got their dump going so now practically have no market cap.

Like the dotcom bubble I don’t think the internet was a scam obviously and I don’t btc or eth are scams but again manipulated they are manipulated to “the moon”. Whereas the internet had use and matured into the everyday used thing it Is today, I think the likes of Btc don’t have any function in comparison and the whole idea of decentralized currency, sore of value etc will fail to a minimal sub-culture

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

I think the intention of a few coins weren’t scams although I believe they are heavily manipulated.

It's telling of an underlying prejudice that you can't simply come out and say that cryptocurrency as a whole is not a scam!

It's a nascent market where regulatory frameworks are only being put together now. Furthermore, it's proportionately a tiny market, making it much easier to influence. Market manipulation happens in all markets but this one is more susceptible. I can cite plenty of examples from the conventional world but in case you don't believe me, here's a recent one. These are the actions of bad actors but it doesn't define a whole industry. Manipulation is not synonymous with 'scam'. As liquidity improves, the ability of these guys to influence the market reduces.

TallyRand wrote: »

I’d say 99% or coins were proper pump and dump scams, who got their dump going so now practically have no market cap.

Do you have any stats for this belief?

Small cap coins were always small cap coins. 95-98% of overall market capitalisation in cryptocurrency is concentrated amongst the top coins whether that was last December or this December.

TallyRand wrote:

I think the likes of Btc don’t have any function in comparison and the whole idea of decentralized currency, sore of value etc will fail to a minimal sub-culture

Of course I don't believe that - but that's your belief and that's fine.

TallyRand

makeorbrake wrote: »

It's telling of an underlying prejudice that you can't simply come out and say that cryptocurrency as a whole is not a scam!

It's a nascent market where regulatory frameworks are only being put together now. Furthermore, it's proportionately a tiny market, making it much easier to influence. Market manipulation happens in all markets but this one is more susceptible. These are the actions of bad actors but it doesn't define a whole industry. Manipulation is not synonymous with 'scam'. As liquidity improves, the ability of these guys to influence the market reduces.

Do you have any stats for this belief?

Small cap coins were always small cap coins. 95-98% of overall market capitalisation in cryptocurrency is concentrated amongst the top coins whether that was last December or this December.


Of course I don't believe that - but that's your belief and that's fine.

I don’t believe the whole crypto industry is a scam, happy now? I don’t have a problem with anything I say and I don’t mince words.

I can’t say crypto “currency”, because none of them are or will be currencies in my view.

Also, I don’t have a fear / dislike of banks or the man at the scale most crypto supporters do so I’m not aboard that train.

Further, I don’t understand the whole “in it for the tech” mindset, if I was in it for the tech I’d build some application for use.

Lastly, what i didn’t like was the “know it all-ism” that prevailed last year (not saying anyone here fits that bracket)

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

I don’t believe the whole crypto industry is a scam

Why, thank you :rolleyes:

TallyRand wrote: »

happy now?

Not particularly. I don't have time for people who can't discuss this topic openly without harbouring deep seated prejudices. There was mention of a ten minute snippet on national radio today where 'Ponzi scheme' was used in relation to bitcoin on a couple of occasions. I don't have any time for anyone that tries to label any crypto with lies that suit their own prejudicial view.

TallyRand wrote: »

I can’t say crypto “currency”, because none of them are or will be currencies in my view.

Even Jay Clayton of the SEC recognises Bitcoin as a currency but whatever, dude. I'm not interested in changing your view. I just want to make sure that anyone that hasn't formed a view isn't faced with lies.

TallyRand wrote: »

Also, I don’t have a fear / dislike of banks or the man at the scale most crypto supporters do so I’m not aboard that train.

I wonder if the government or a bank walked away with 20-30% of your savings one day, would that soften your cough a little bit. I guess that would never happen. I guess it never almost happened in Ireland and never happens somewhere in the world every year.
I think your concentration on this point is telling though - as you have a politicised view of crypto when the reality is that crypto draws people from the most diverse of backgrounds.

TallyRand wrote: »

Further, I don’t understand the whole “in it for the tech” mindset, if I was in it for the tech I’d build some application for use.

Betrays a fundamental lack of understanding about the technology and whats being developed in the industry - from cryptocurrency through to blockchain applications.

TallyRand wrote: »

Lastly, what i didn’t like was the “know it all-ism” that prevailed last year (not saying anyone here fits that bracket)

Again, that only serves to betray a deep seated prejudice. There are many people involved in crypto and blockchain in one form or another. Some might be over-exhuberent in their expression of interest in it whilst others not so much. I don't see in any way, shape or form how that would be a consideration in this discussion.

TallyRand

Everyone is prejudiced about everything, you’re as prejudiced for crypto as I am against so maybe time to drop that argument.

I judge it by what I see and all the info I’ve gathered, I didn’t and don’t have a biased opinion from day 1 of my crypto awareness, my opinion comes from a collection of everything I’ve accumulated good and bad.

If I’m proven wrong (and I don’t wish to be or hope I am to score a point versus anon accounts not be internet) then so be it but I still tell it like I see it.

JohnnyFlash

Death by multi quote is a difficult thing to counteract, but what exactly was wrong with today's piece on our national broadcaster? They visited two crypto investors early this year, and then went back to them to see how things were working out. The reality of the situation is that their investments have dropped by over 90% since then. They then spoke to Brian Lucey who is Professor of International Finance and Commodities in Trinity. He was a sceptic then, and remains one now. He doesn't have a vested interest either way. He has studied and lectures on financial bubbles, the financial economics of gold, the principals of 'sound money', and the need for regulation.

It was a very balanced piece of radio journalism.

His recent blog post is actually a good read: https://www.tcd.ie/business/news-events/bitcoin-roller-coaster-ride.php

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

Everyone is prejudiced about everything, you’re as prejudiced for crypto as I am against so maybe time to drop that argument.

Its patently clear that you trigger on a politicised view of crypto - together with the 'know-it-all-ism' comment. Neither of those things have ANYTHING to do with consideration of speculating in/ investing in crypto (or consideration of the underlying tech).

TallyRand wrote: »

I judge it by what I see and all the info I’ve gathered, I didn’t and don’t have a biased opinion from day 1 of my crypto awareness, my opinion comes from a collection of everything I’ve accumulated good and bad.

If I’m proven wrong (and I don’t wish to be or hope I am to score a point versus anon accounts not be internet) then so be it but I still tell it like I see it.

Many posts back, you couldn't list a single positive facet of blockchain or cryptocurrency until pushed - and even then, it was the most reluctant admission ever. That's how I recognise your view to be less than objective.

Many of the regular contributors to this sub-forum have highlighted what they find problematic with crypto as much as what they like about it.

There's a distinction.

TallyRand

[/quote] Many posts back, you couldn't list a single positive facet of blockchain or cryptocurrency until pushed - and even then, it was the most reluctant admission ever. That's how I recognise your view to be less than objective.

Many of the regular contributors to this sub-forum have highlighted what they find problematic with crypto as much as what they like about it.

There's a distinction.[/quote]

I don’t have to list positives about crypto or the “underlying tech” or clarify what percent I think it is a scam.......it’s like your insecure about the whole thing.

I hold my views from all the info I’ve consumed, no more no less. I’ll either be right or wrong, it’s just my opinion, please please get over the obsession with needing me to validate crypto, I’ve not contradicted myself at all........

makeorbrake

TallyRand wrote: »

I don’t have to list positives about crypto or the “underlying tech”

Evidently, you don't find any redeeming features whatsoever in crypto and blockchain tech. Sorry, but I can't treat your view as objective on that basis.

TallyRand wrote: »

or what percent I think it is a scam.

We've been over this - but fine. People label with 'scam', 'ponzi' and 'pyramid' on this thread and on every conceivable media form every day of the week in relation to Bitcoin and cryptocurrency in general.
That's where you were headed with that yourself. Further evidence of that today on RTE when the word 'Ponzi' was used at least twice in the discussion of Bitcoin when there is no earthly way it is a ponzi scheme. That all started with banks and governments.

TallyRand wrote: »

it’s like your insecure about the whole thing.

It's quite simple. On a board such as this, someone can call you out on our BS.

TallyRand wrote: »

get over the obsession with needing me to validate crypto,

I have NO interest in the likes of you 'validating' crypto. What I have an interest in - is deconstructing blatant lies where crypto is concerned.

TallyRand wrote: »

I’ve not contradicted myself at all........

Nor have I. ....nor do I feel the need to go searching through a years worth of your posts to prove jack (and sorry, but this nonsense about stumbling upon something when searching for something else...nobody believes that).

JohnnyFlash

I had a look at coinmarketcap. Can anyone more knowledgeable than me explain what is happening with Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin SV? I know there was a split a few weeks ago as a result of Ver siding with Bitcoin Cash ABC and Craig Wright going for his Satoshi Vision. SV is pumping like bejaysus, while Bitcoin Cash is dropping off a cliff. Over 86% of all USD-BTC trades made over the last week were using Tether as some sort of stablecoin. And that CZ guy from Binance tried to pump BNB coin while also introducing all manner of small stablecoins onto his exchange.

What explains this pump in SV, while BTC and BCH fall off the cliff? I'll admit to being confused.

grindle

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What explains this pump in SV, while BTC and BCH fall off the cliff? I'll admit to being confused.

Craig "Faketoshi" Wright (confirmed to have either mined Bitcoin from block 9 or he's bought that private key) likely has a very large amount of all of those coins so he can put pretty major dints into whichever has the least resistance at the time OR he's got enough people who consider themselves market savvy on his side willing to put their funds into killing BCH as a vendetta? Being one step closer to dethroning BTC might be icing on the cake but not the current aim, nobody wants BSV really barring some true mindmelting fúcktards.

Generally when people are looking at charts their minds aren't thinking of market depth, they see a percentage rise and maybe compare against market losses in the supposed direct competitors and they'll make bad choices. If Craig is truly a BTC billionaire then he has the same amount of all coins that've forked from BTC & if he wants to manipulate/drive BCH down efficiently he'll switch between selling BCH into the thin walls for Tether and buying BSV with his BTC. As a pump gains ground for BSV (if that happens) he can sell his now-profitable BSV for BCH across many exchanges, then sell BCH amassed for Tether. Make it look like there's a run on BCH.
He's not the only source of the drop but he'll be setting off an awful lot of stop-losses which just like the ETH flash crash last summer causes cascades downwards as the bots try to sell before they can't anymore. Some don't have their stop-loss set up correctly because they don't (unwisely given the liquidity issues) imagine a coin reaching near-zero. ETH at $0.10, what a day. I can still hear the muffled screams on /r/ethtrader when some woke up to their stash being reduced to 0.1% of it's value.

Maybe there's BCH news I've missed in the last few hours but given that Craig said this would be a very long game, any time I see BSV up and BCH down I've always got my eye on him.
Does anybody else know where that recent $250m BTC transaction went? Exchange thing or maybe it was splitting these coins into different wallets for trading?

makeorbrake

grindle wrote: »

Does anybody else know where that recent $250m BTC transaction went? Exchange thing or maybe it was splitting these coins into different wallets for trading?

I'm not sure if this is one and the same thing but a couple days back, Coinbase gave advanced warning that they were going to be shuffling some large sums of BTC. Despite the notice, not everyone picked up on it.

asteroids over berlin

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is one and the same thing but a couple days back, Coinbase gave advanced warning that they were going to be shuffling some large sums of BTC. Despite the notice, not everyone picked up on it.

there were a couple of transactions last week for huge amounts of btc which were then split into numerous wallets with either 10 or 100 btc each- i think this was coinbase, a new cold storage solution they were rolling out

jobless

anyone dipping back into the market with these prices?

Grumpypants

jobless wrote: »

anyone dipping back into the market with these prices?

Yip, I have been topping up a small bit in the last few weeks. Not huge numbers as I only ever invest what I'm not afraid to lose. But it is a few hundred euro.

It's the crypto recession right now, but if you can weather it you will do well coming out the other side. The figures last year were crazy high, they are around the right levels now, perhaps a little lower than they should be based on the activity.

Bought some Bitcoin, ETH, Litecoin, Ripple, Ox, and next I'll buy some EOS.

Same reason I bought my house in the recession. If you are in no rush to sell then it will come good eventually.

preddy

jobless wrote: »

anyone dipping back into the market with these prices?

Going to wait till we hit around €2300-€2600 BTC

Bob24

Grumpypants wrote: »

It's the crypto recession right now, but if you can weather it you will do well coming out the other side.

Same reason I bought my house in the recession. If you are in no rush to sell then it will come good eventually.

I would be *very* cautious with comparing property and crypto!!

Saying that most properties will never be worth zero and will always eventually recover after a crash is probably true.

The same is not true for cryptocurrencies ... they can absolutely be worth zero or never recover.

Not saying it’s necessarily a bad idea to buy some crypto now, but IMO comparing it to purchasing property during an economic recession is quite misguiding in terms of risk assessment.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Long may this run continue

Grumpypants

Time to start picking my plot on the moon again.

I do think there is one last crash, i can see it hitting 5k then dropping below 2k.

JJJJNR

1500 then sideways.

Dohnjoe

Grumpypants wrote: »

Time to start picking my plot on the moon again.

I do think there is one last crash, i can see it hitting 5k then dropping below 2k.

Yeah it's really hard to know what's going to happen

Strangely, I'd be okay with the market dithering around for 2 or so years.

JohnnyFlash

Some positive movement over the past few days for Bitcoin, and as a result, for all the other coins hanging on its coattails. I did make the prediction that it would be over 4200 on Christmas Day, but I'm not sure this sudden spike is anything more than a rather cheap attempt to clear out the last few degenerate gamblers who took short positions using leverage on Bitmex and Bitfinex. I'd have been more sure about my prediction if it wasn't so 'spikey' yesterday.

I haven't been following the whole scene very closely recently, but volumes have improved significantly. Liquidity was so thin all year, especially from that descent from around 9000 to 6500. There were days when Coinbase had rolling 24 volumes of less than 1000 bitcoin. I'd still be very interested in the figures that emerge from Bitmain. It's a real bellwether for the health of the space.

Grumpypants

Apparently some news outlet got a look at tethers bank statement and they do have the cash on deposit. That news seems to be the driving force as it had been written off as the scam that was holding up the pyramid scheme by those "in the know".

Bob24

Grumpypants wrote: »

Apparently some news outlet got a look at tethers bank statement and they do have the cash on deposit. That news seems to be the driving force as it had been written off as the scam that was holding up the pyramid scheme by those "in the know".

Yeah I saw that yesterday. But isn’t it old news in a way? Confirmation that they have the money in the bank had already been provided in the past, what was missing (and still is) is a proper audit of all their assets and liabilities.

smacl

Grumpypants wrote: »

Apparently some news outlet got a look at tethers bank statement and they do have the cash on deposit. That news seems to be the driving force as it had been written off as the scam that was holding up the pyramid scheme by those "in the know".

Not that new though, from 1st November,Linky, and more from 5th November from the bank saying it is legit.

Tether limit also provided a letter from Deltec Bank and Trust Limited stating that the cash value of Tether’s account was $1,831,322,828. Comparing this figure with the circulating supply reported on coinmarketcap.com ($1,776,421,736) , we can conclude that Tether (USDT) is indeed backed by actual US Dollars.

Deltec Bank in the Bahamas would seem to have a few other interesting customers. I'll remain sceptical of Tether myself for the time being.

Edit: Beaten to it!

Grumpypants

Yeah but this was a Bloomberg reporter so holds a bit more weight with the markets than a crypto blog, regardless of if the info was right at the time.

Already i miss those €68 ETH, they will haunt me when it's a grand again lol

smacl

Grumpypants wrote: »

Yeah but this was a Bloomberg reporter so holds a bit more weight with the markets than a crypto blog, regardless of if the info was right at the time.

Already i miss those €68 ETH, they will haunt me when it's a grand again lol

This article; https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-18/crypto-mystery-clues-suggest-tether-has-the-billions-it-promised

Grumpypants

That's the one

q85dw7osi4lebg

Is that the first marginally positive crypto article by mainstream media, ever?

makeorbrake

Angelo Sparse Sunflower wrote: »

Is that the first marginally positive crypto article by mainstream media, ever?

I'm not sure it's all that positive. At the end of the day, Tether always keep on coming up short. I mean, I guess there's more of a likelihood that they have the funds to back the token. I can only imagine that the reason they won't allow full audits is in an effort to protect some dodgy customers. I can't imagine any other rationale.
Either way, nobody can possibly trust a stablecoin on that basis. It goes against the whole principal that crypto emerged with - i.e. assume lack of trust. Leaving the space exposed to such potential downside risk is not savvy. I can only hope that over time, if people feel the need to use stablecoins, they will at least use those that issue regular audits. Other than that, I'd like to see a continued move towards decentralised exchanges.


As regards Bloomberg, I'm open to correction but I believe it was them that had the story about Tethers previous half baked attempt (via their lawyers and a letter from their bank) to show proof of funds.

You can't trust any media anyway. However, over and above that, media continues to be unsettled/disrupted and none of them are making a bean. That leaves them even more susceptible to print any old guff.

q85dw7osi4lebg

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'm not sure it's all that positive. At the end of the day, Tether always keep on coming up short. I mean, I guess there's more of a likelihood that they have the funds to back the token. I can only imagine that the reason they won't allow full audits is in an effort to protect some dodgy customers. I can't imagine any other rationale.
Either way, nobody can possibly trust a stablecoin on that basis. It goes against the whole principal that crypto emerged with - i.e. assume lack of trust. Leaving the space exposed to such potential downside risk is not savvy. I can only hope that over time, if people feel the need to use stablecoins, they will at least use those that issue regular audits. Other than that, I'd like to see a continued move towards decentralised exchanges.


As regards Bloomberg, I'm open to correction but I believe it was them that had the story about Tethers previous half baked attempt (via their lawyers and a letter from their bank) to show proof of funds.

You can't trust any media anyway. However, over and above that, media continues to be unsettled/disrupted and none of them are making a bean. That leaves them even more susceptible to print any old guff.

Concise response! Agree with it all, wouldn't trust the financial media as far as I can throw them.