Same sex families officially as good for kids as every other kind of family

baby and crumble

Huzzah! Looks pretty darn solid to me.

the latest entity to make its feelings on the subject of same-sex marriage known to the supreme court is the American Academy of Pediatrics. And their message? That marriage equality (and the ability for gay families to become adoptive and foster homes) is in the best interests of children.

The abstract from the report:

Extensive data available from more than 30 years of research reveal that children raised by gay and lesbian parents have demonstrated resilience with regard to social, psychological, and sexual health despite economic and legal disparities and social stigma. Many studies have demonstrated that children's well-being is affected much more by their relationships with their parents, their parents' sense of competence and security, and the presence of social and economic support for the family than by the gender or the sexual orientation of their parents. Lack of opportunity for same-gender couples to marry adds to families’ stress, which affects the health and welfare of all household members. Because marriage strengthens families and, in so doing, benefits children’s development, children should not be deprived of the opportunity for their parents to be married. Paths to parenthood that include assisted reproductive techniques, adoption, and foster parenting should focus on competency of the parents rather than their sexual orientation.

Blog post on Autostraddle:
http://www.autostraddle.com/actual-experts-tell-supreme-court-gays-are-great-parents-bigots-are-wrong-169513/

Full text of the official report in the official Journal of Pediatrics (peer reviewed scientific journal):
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2013/03/18/peds.2013-0377.full.pdf+html

1ZRed

And nobody with any common sense and no delusions was shocked!

It's solid proof now for anyone who apposes same-sex families and uses that tired and baseless argument

Daith

Well of course. I mean what's best for a child

A family with same sex parents where Irish law will only recognize one parent

or

A family with same sex parents where Irish law will recognize both people as parents.

The Iona institue and their ilk annoy the crap out of me with their "marriage is only there to raise children and only a mother and father can raise a child".

Gbear

Daith wrote: »

Well of course. I mean what's best for a child

A family with same sex parents where Irish law will only recognize one parent

or

A family with same sex parents where Irish law will recognize both people as parents.

The Iona institue and their ilk annoy the crap out of me with their "marriage is only there to raise children and only a mother and father can raise a child".

It's never really an issue on an intellectual level.

It always boils down to "homosexuality is icky".

Daith

Gbear wrote: »

It's never really an issue on an intellectual level.

It always boils down to "homosexuality is icky".

And I think sadly it boils down to "do you want gay men raising children...." just never spoken.

Prodigious

I honestly believe that if a child is raised by two homosexual parents there is a higher chance that the child too will be homosexual.

eviltwin

Methememb wrote: »

I honestly believe that if a child is raised by two homosexual parents there is a higher chance that the child too will be homosexual.

:eek:

Why do you think that? Do you have any evidence to back it up?

the_syco

Methememb wrote: »

I honestly believe that if a child is raised by two homosexual parents there is a higher chance that the child too will be homosexual.

I bet you're in for a shock when you find out that straight people breed gay people :pac:

nickcave

Methememb wrote: »

I honestly believe that if a child is raised by two homosexual parents there is a higher chance that the child too will be homosexual.

I'd think there's a higher chance that that child will not be conditioned to be one way or the other. This might lead to a higher chance of being openly gay as opposed to repressed, but I can't imagine it has any bearing on the child's sexuality.

But then again, that's just my own feeling. We should leave it to the experts really.

Prodigious

It's down to Nature vs Nurture at the end of the day. I believe your surroundings and upbringing have an effect on your sexual orientation.

A note on this study:
It appears to me to be a biased study with an agenda to push gay marriage. It says children of gay parents are "have demonstrated resilience." It goes on to say studies have demonstrated that their relationship with their parents have more of an effect than their parents' sexual orientations. However, that is not to say their parents' orientations do not have an effect.

That's why straight people have gay kids all the time sure
All that parental influence

eviltwin

Methememb wrote: »

It's down to Nature vs Nurture at the end of the day. I believe your surroundings and upbringing have an effect on your sexual orientation.

A note on this study:
It appears to me to be a biased study with an agenda to push gay marriage. It says children of gay parents are "have demonstrated resilience." It goes on to say studies have demonstrated that their relationship with their parents have more of an effect than their parents' sexual orientations. However, that is not to say their parents' orientations do not have an effect.

Even if it were true is it such a bad thing?

1ZRed

Methememb wrote: »

I honestly believe that if a child is raised by two homosexual parents there is a higher chance that the child too will be homosexual.

Have anything to back that up? The outline of your sexuality is determined at conception, there's no beating your genes

Prodigious

bluewolf wrote: »

That's why straight people have gay kids all the time sure
All that parental influence

That's the common response, and it's quite a stupid one.
The large majority of children from straight parents are straight. So it is quite plausible to think that a majority of kids from gay parents could be gay.

The large majority of people are straight. The large majority of parents are straight. Using this to infer that children of gay parents will be gay proportionally higher than otherwise is what's stupid. First issue with correlation and causation.

Prodigious

1ZRed wrote: »

Have anything to back that up? The outline of your sexuality is determined at conception, there's no beating your genes

I have no solid proof or statistics, no.

However, something I noticed was that quite a few of the victims of the church sex abuse turned out to be gay in later life. Coincidence?

eviltwin

Methememb wrote: »

I have no solid proof or statistics, no.

However, something I noticed was that quite a few of the victims of the church sex abuse turned out to be gay in later life. Coincidence?

Quite a few probably were gay anyway.

1ZRed

Methememb wrote: »

I have no solid proof or statistics, no.

I noticed that Asian parents have children who are better at maths, therefore I believe that having Asian parents automatically leads to children with better maths skills.

I've zero proof whatsoever, but I noticed it, so therefore my theory must be very plausible

1ZRed

Mathememb wrote:

However, something I noticed was that quite a few of the victims of the church sex abuse turned out to be gay in later life. Coincidence?

What does this have to do with anything? What about in the vast, vast majority of when this never happens and people still end up being gay?

Prodigious

There is statistical proof that the asian standards of Mathematics are much higher than that of Europe, so yes, your theory is very plausible.

Daith

Methememb wrote: »

There is statistical proof that the asian standards of Mathematics are much higher than that of Europe, so yes, your theory is very plausible.

Coming to terms with your sexuality isn't a matter of stats.

I was raised the same way as my 3 brothers. Went to the same schools. Raised by the same straight parents. I'm gay. They're straight. I was born gay. You wanting stats is meaningless to me.

1ZRed

Methememb wrote: »

There is statistical proof that the asian standards of Mathematics are much higher than that of Europe, so yes, your theory is very plausible.

No I said having Asian parents. I believe if I had Asian parents growing up in Ireland even with our current curriculum that I'd be automatically better at maths. That's my theory.

I also think that if I were black I could actually have a hope at being able to dance. Again, just something I noticed so it must be true.

Prodigious

Your sexuality is irrelevant to the discussion.

Dani Pacheco

Re;OP

Yes, Yes they do.

Sin é.

Daith

Methememb wrote: »

Your sexuality is irrelevant to the discussion.

It'll be very relevant when my army of gay children take over Ireland.

eviltwin

Methememb wrote: »

Your sexuality is irrelevant to the discussion.

If 1ZRed had two gay parents I'm sure you'd say his sexuality proves you point :rolleyes:

Prodigious

His parents being straight do not disprove it.

Dani Pacheco

Are people actually suggesting that gay parents have gay children...like...what ?!
*bangs head off of table*

Daith

Dani Pacheco wrote: »

Are people actually suggesting that gay parents have gay children...like...what ?!
*bangs head off of table*

No, we will turn them gay I think....like straight parents turn their children straight.

1ZRed

Methememb wrote: »

His parents being straight do not disprove it.

Wtf is your argument? You're only interested in hearing what'll prove your BS theory and will dismiss anything that suggests that it is in fact obviously just BS

donegal.

surely by now theres loads of gay couples in the world who have raised children. are stats not available about their sexual orientation ?

tster

Methememb wrote: »

I have no solid proof or statistics, no.

However, something I noticed was that quite a few of the victims of the church sex abuse turned out to be gay in later life. Coincidence?

What does this have to do with anything, let alone children being raised by same sex parents?!

And again, do you have anything to back this up or is this more of your own personal opinions?!

Prodigious

It contributes to the theory that upbringing can have an effect on sexual orientation.

My point is that a child's parents being gay could have an effect on their sexual orientation. Not saying that it's a bad thing, or a good thing, before you all jump down my throat.

eviltwin

Methememb wrote: »

It contributes to the theory that upbringing can have an effect on sexual orientation.

My point is that a child's parents being gay could have an effect on their sexual orientation. Not saying that it's a bad thing, or a good thing, before you all jump down my throat.

I'd bet money nearly all the victims of clerical sex abuse were raised in straight families. They weren't being brought up by their abusers so how it has anything to do with the point in the OP is beyond me.

Prodigious

*Apologies

1ZRed

Methememb wrote: »

It contributes to the theory that upbringing can have an effect on sexual orientation.

My point is that a child's parents being gay could have an effect on their sexual orientation. Not saying that it's a bad thing, or a good thing, before you all jump down my throat.

But my parents are straight and I'm gay, I think all the gay guys here would have straight parents but they turned out gay.

Similarly, there are many gay parents that raise straight children. The vast majority would raise straight children actually.

Your ideas are back in the 50's, if you've no proof and you've been told by first-hand experiences, as well as having legitimate proof right in the very first post of this thread, then wouldn't it be wise to believe your ideas to be untrue given you've nothing to back it up yet we have actual prove to counter your argument?

They were in a paedophilic fcuking environment not a "homosexual environment"
jesus

tster

Methememb wrote: »

They were in a homosexual environment for a considerable part of their childhood, however.

Child abuse is not a homosexual environment. It's a disgusting link to make.

Prodigious

Apologies for that, didn't mean to offend.

Annasopra

Methememb wrote: »

Apologies for that, didn't mean to offend.

Great. Don't do it again.

pragmatic1

Methememb wrote: »

I honestly believe that if a child is raised by two homosexual parents there is a higher chance that the child too will be homosexual.

Well then you're silly.

gcgirl

Methememb wrote: »

I honestly believe that if a child is raised by two homosexual parents there is a higher chance that the child too will be homosexual.

Bollox then why all these hetros having gay kids?

gcgirl

Methememb wrote: »

It's down to Nature vs Nurture at the end of the day. I believe your surroundings and upbringing have an effect on your sexual orientation.

A note on this study:
It appears to me to be a biased study with an agenda to push gay marriage. It says children of gay parents are "have demonstrated resilience." It goes on to say studies have demonstrated that their relationship with their parents have more of an effect than their parents' sexual orientations. However, that is not to say their parents' orientations do not have an effect.

Eh no! You know your actually born gay it's not like hair colour going can't choose your sexuality

paulmorro

Methememb wrote: »

It contributes to the theory that upbringing can have an effect on sexual orientation.

My point is that a child's parents being gay could have an effect on their sexual orientation. Not saying that it's a bad thing, or a good thing, before you all jump down my throat.

I don't believe you for a second when you say this.

Tainor

Methememb wrote: »

I have no solid proof or statistics, no.

However, something I noticed was that quite a few of the victims of the church sex abuse turned out to be gay in later life. Coincidence?

What are you implying there, that just because homosexual clergy people abused boys, all gay people will abuse children as well!!! It is an absolut disgust what had happened to those children and it is the State's fault for not brining justice to this!

And what more is that, you also imply that gay parents will abuse their children and will "make" them gay!! Disgusting, this thinking pertains to the thought back in the 50's of the last century! Gay parents are just as loving and affectionate to their children as all other parents, whether a family union or single parents! I sincerely hope you start to re-think your understanding of gay culture and gay people...we are not some perverts that seek random boys/man to lure them into sexual activity.....again disgusting!!!!

Methememb wrote: »

My point is that a child's parents being gay could have an effect on their sexual orientation. Not saying that it's a bad thing, or a good thing, before you all jump down my throat.

What an erroneous link to make! Last time I checked I was raised in a heterosexual family with one younger brother and a younger sister. My brother is straight, and my sister is only 9, so too soon to say anything. None the least I am gay, and my parents are straight, surely if my parents are straight so I should have been as well, and all the other homosexuals born to straight parents, because surprise....gay people cannot breed between each other, and adoption and other means of rising children are still very young to this society. Ergo your argument, becomes reductio ad absurdum

Homosexuality is rooted into your genes, partly due to epigenetics, control of oestrogen between the mother and embryo and androgen epi-marks of the embryo during the early stages of development. Science cannot fully explain what genes are responsible for stimulating homosexual development of embryos, but current understanding is that there are multitudes of them, along with different epi-marks responding to different epigenetic factors.

W. R. Rice et al., “Homosexuality as a consequence of epigenetically canalized sexual development,” The Quarterly Review of Biology, 87:343-368, 2012.

This is a link to a brief of the article: http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/33773/title/Can-Epigenetics-Explain-Homosexuality-/

You might also want to read this as well - http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/253971.php

It becomes clearer by each passing day, that sexuality is developed in-vitro in the womb while the embryo develops and that external nurture environment plays a very low key if any in the development of human sexuality.

By the way I consider that, if I have children in the future, which I would like to. That me and my partner will be 100% able to give our children the love and nurture they need to develop as healthy and understandable human beings, just as every other loving family on this world can!!!

Prodigious

You totally twisted my words. You know as well as everyone else that that was not my point.

Tainor

Methememb wrote: »

You totally twisted my words. You know as well as everyone else that that was not my point.

I did not twist your words at all you mentioned that if a boy is sexually abused by a gay person...they develop into being gay...ergo homosexual parents will seek to abuse their children which in turn will make them gay? Wrong time, wrong place, wrong people to mention such things to!!!!

This is what I read and a lot of other people in your lines of text, perhaps next time you might wish to elaborate on your points further, not to leave things vague and open to interpretations.

Read the articles I pointed you to, they are very recent some as 2013. Jan. They clearly define that homosexuality is genetic (epi-genetic) and that you cannot "turn" someone gay, or the alternative "unmake" someone already gay!

Such thing will only become possible in the distant future, where we have total genetic control of our molecular structure and genetic expression.


I completely understand that this is an open forum, dedicated to discussion and constructive arguments, but there is no place for prejudice or other form of implied discrimination. Hence next time please, can you pick your words wisely and maintain a coherent expression without room for interpenetration, when it comes to sensitive topics.

wonderfulname

Is it really anyway relevant to discuss sexual abuse? It's not anyway related to adult sexuality, even homosexual abuse as you use it is a misnomer, iirc the sexualities of those who abuse young boys have been found to be in line with the general population, i.e. Majority straight.

Prodigious

Tainor wrote: »

I did not twist your words at all you mentioned that if a boy is sexually abused by a gay person...they develop into being gay...ergo homosexual parents will seek to abuse their children which in turn will make them gay? Wrong time, wrong place, wrong people to mention such things to!!!!

No. You're seriously manipulating it with your ergo bullshît, you should cut the act.

gcgirl

Methememb wrote: »

No. You're seriously manipulating it with your ergo bullshît, you should cut the act.

Maybe you should reread what you wrote !

Tainor

Methememb wrote: »

No. You're seriously manipulating it with your ergo bullshît, you should cut the act.

My "ergo bull****" comes from your inability to tie-in your lines of children abused by clergy on a topic of discussion on same sex families, and how children of same sex parents end up being gay!!!!

One: You fail, to tie-in those lines with how are they relevant to the discussion and what they have to contribute as input.

Two: You are implying discrimination by bringing a topic of child abuse and homosexual - same sex families, left open to interpenetration and vagueness!!

Ergo, pick your words wisely next time, say what you mean clearly and don't run circles around personal opinions, with no factual support!