Rubbish bin collected? No? Fine then.

BrianD3

The draft Dublin City Council Bye Laws state:

(b)A holder shall enter into a contract with a permitted waste collector for the collection of that waste, unless otherwise agreed by the appointed person in the Council.

(c) The requirement for (b) above does not apply to waste holders that can demonstrate to the satisfaction of an authorised person that they have access to a waste collection and disposal service and provide the necessary documentary evidence of same.

If you are using black bags and bringing them to a landfill, receipts to show that you are doing this would surely satisfy conditon b) and/or c)

dxhound2005

Dwork wrote: »

Having worn out all other means of extracting cash(o.k, not all, not even many, but some) our good leaders are now introducing a new whizz that Households who do not have an agreement with a licenced waste collection service(i.e a bin company) are to be fined. €75 snots on the spot, to be precise, with failure to pay that leading to a court appearance and a potential €1700.00 fine.

So Ah, heading out at dusk to burn the papers? Scattering your weekly waste amongst the neighbours bins? Digging small holes in the local park and burying it? Them days are numbered. So, you need a compulsory T.V licence, you pay household Tax(or you will soon), you pay VAT on everything, you pay your taxes. You'll soon be paying for water. You pay for ESB, Gas, car tax, compulsory car insurance, expensive fuel for your house and vehicle. Your septic tank charges. And now you sign up to compulsory bin collection.

I for one am beginning to think I might just give Endas account number for my wages to be paid into. It would save a lot of messing. What think ye?

I think you could have got that for €5.

jimmycrackcorm

Mr. Wong wrote: »

We burn our rubbish. Enda and his like can go fuck off!

We could all burn our rubbish but you'd probably be the first to come on here complaining about the smog

hoodwinked

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you are going away because of taxes and charges for services this will only make sense if the "anywhere" has fewer and less expensive ones than here.

thats why we are throughly researching it...honestly theses kind of charges are the end of a long tether consisting of weather,many illnesses due to the cold snaps, family issues....etc i could go on...


but these kind of local government policies just pushes us out the door...and makes me glad we won't be coming back.

dxhound2005

hoodwinked wrote: »

thats why we are throughly researching it...honestly theses kind of charges are the end of a long tether consisting of weather,many illnesses due to the cold snaps, family issues....etc i could go on...


but these kind of local government policies just pushes us out the door...and makes me glad we won't be coming back.

Also worth taking into consideration any taxpayers money your household could be getting in, not just what you have to pay out. You might not be entitled to the equivalent elsewhere.

hoodwinked

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Also worth taking into consideration any taxpayers money your household could be getting in, not just what you have to pay out. You might not be entitled to the equivalent elsewhere.

we hit every loophole when we needed help and got nothing but childrens allowance (for one)...

we are currently running off wages and paying full rent, entitled to nothing elsewhere means starting where we were here.

speaking with my aunt who lives in perth and they pay a singular council tax which pretty much covers all the services we pay a fortune for here... including refuse

don't worry i know starting from scratch won't be easy or cheap at first but with two good careers and qualifications behind us we should be just fine.

Mr. Wong

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

We could all burn our rubbish but you'd probably be the first to come on here complaining about the smog

Yeah, the ould smog is a divil.

The Th!ng

Bring your waste to a landfill or other licensed facility, keep your receipts as proof of proper disposal, by doing so you will avoid the waste company's annual charge and their per-lift costs as well.

Dwork

The Th!ng wrote: »

Bring your waste to a landfill or other licensed facility, keep your receipts as proof of proper disposal, by doing so you will avoid the waste company's annual charge and their per-lift costs as well.

And on the upside, your car will bang like the inside of a wheelie-bin. Which will cut down the amount of time you want to spend in it. Environmental win-win.

The Th!ng

Dwork wrote: »

And on the upside, your car will bang like the inside of a wheelie-bin. Which will cut down the amount of time you want to spend in it. Environmental win-win.

That depends on how the waste is managed by the householder, instead of throwing waste directly into the bin, bag it and then into the bin.

Ghost Buster

HardLuckWoman wrote: »

What do you mean by signing up for a collection service? What about buying bin tags or bin bags? Is that not the same thing?

I take my waste to a civic amenity centre. Much cheaper than paying bin charges.

fasttalkerchat

The Th!ng wrote: »

Bring your waste to a landfill or other licensed facility, keep your receipts as proof of proper disposal, by doing so you will avoid the waste company's annual charge and their per-lift costs as well.

What landfill gives you a receipt??

Dwork

The Th!ng wrote: »

That depends on how the waste is managed by the householder, instead of throwing waste directly into the bin, bag it and then into the bin.

The environmentally friendly way, eh.;)

KyussBishop

This makes no sense. The property tax is at least going to a public service, this is forcing subsidization of a private service???

If they're going to make people pay for it, just use the money provide it as a public service ffs.


This is the kind of idiocy you get, from privatizing essential public services; government still stepping in to force people to pay for it (thus effectively a tax), but it's run for-profit, and the profits go into private hands.

It's basically exactly the same as before, except paying even more so that private companies can engage in rent-seeking/service-charges off the populace, when that extra money could be put to public use (or just left in peoples pockets) instead.


There is not a single good reason this service should not be publicly provided, and as others have said, we are in for decades more of this, as services rights, infrastructure and national resources, are sold off at a pittance, to make a barely-noticeable dent in our debt load.

The Th!ng

Dwork wrote: »

The environmentally friendly way, eh.;)

It is if you use biodegradeable bags.

clairefontaine

So this is like Obamacare, but applied to trash collection?

This does not bode well.

Could this eventually happen to other public services like schools and health?

The Th!ng

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

What landfill gives you a receipt??

Any site taking waste from the public for a fee must be giving out receipts.

My local civic amenity site takes household waste, you put your money into a cash machine before disposal and you are issued with a receipt showing the amount paid, date and time, receipt id, etc.

Dwork

KyussBishop wrote: »

This makes no sense. The property tax is at least going to a public service, this is forcing subsidization of a private service???

If they're going to make people pay for it, just use the money provide it as a public service ffs.


This is the kind of idiocy you get, from privatizing essential public services; government still stepping in to force people to pay for it (thus effectively a tax), but it's run for-profit, and the profits go into private hands.

It's basically exactly the same as before, except paying even more so that private companies can engage in rent-seeking/service-charges off the populace, when that extra money could be put to public use (or just left in peoples pockets) instead.


There is not a single good reason this service should not be publicly provided, and as others have said, we are in for decades more of this, as services rights, infrastructure and national resources, are sold off at a pittance, to make a barely-noticeable dent in our debt load.

My list of upcoming Privatisations/Concessions/sold off- Water, deffo. Healthcare-deffo(see Virgin in the UK) Prisons-Deffo, just take a little while because of the unions, more toll roads, Ambulance services, The ESB,deffo. Bord Gais, all traffic speed and parking enforcement(there already almost), all state debt collection(as they're so bad at it), most council services such as repairs, almost all natural resources, most Bus and train routes.

Give it ten years and not one of these will be State run/owned, all will be hived off to the Private sector. All will produce a swiftly gobbled up short-term windfall, all will then cost both the state and the citizen far more for the forseeable future.

The Th!ng

Dwork wrote: »

My list of upcoming Privatisations/Concessions/sold off- Water, deffo. Healthcare-deffo(see Virgin in the UK) Prisons-Deffo, just take a little while because of the unions, more toll roads, Ambulance services, The ESB,deffo. Bord Gais, all traffic speed and parking enforcement(there already almost), all state debt collection(as they're so bad at it), most council services such as repairs, almost all natural resources, most Bus and train routes.

Give it ten years and not one of these will be State run/owned, all will be hived off to the Private sector. All will produce a swiftly gobbled up short-term windfall, all will then cost both the state and the citizen far more for the forseeable future.

We should incinerate FG and their Labour lapdogs?

Dwork

The Th!ng wrote: »

We should incinerate FG and their Labour lapdogs?

Already farmed out. Probably a condition attached was no incinerating the hand that feeds.

fasttalkerchat

The Th!ng wrote: »

Any site taking waste from the public for a fee must be giving out receipts.

My local civic amenity site takes household waste, you put your money into a cash machine before disposal and you are issued with a receipt showing the amount paid, date and time, receipt id, etc.

I didn't realise you paid for those!
When I was living in Dublin I couldn't find one so ended up going over the border. Now I'm living up North again and there's one in every town (free of charge of course.)
How much would it cost to dump a few bin bags?

The Th!ng

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I didn't realise you paid for those!
When I was living in Dublin I couldn't find one so ended up going over the border. Now I'm living up North again and there's one in every town (free of charge of course.)
How much would it cost to dump a few bin bags?

€4 per bag, €8 per wheelie bin.

Dwork

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I didn't realise you paid for those!
When I was living in Dublin I couldn't find one so ended up going over the border. Now I'm living up North again and there's one in every town (free of charge of course.)
How much would it cost to dump a few bin bags?

depends on how many mpg your car does on bog roads, round here anyway.

Maudi

mattjack wrote: »

I burn everything , you name it "El Flame" cremates it.
Today I burnt all household waste , a neighbours cat , two Fine Gael canvassers (who woulda thought shite burns ?) and a TV licence inspector.

my mate puts everything in the fireplace.i mean everything.plastic wood he calls it..cant say as i blame him.

clairefontaine

hoodwinked wrote: »

we hit every loophole when we needed help and got nothing but childrens allowance (for one)...

we are currently running off wages and paying full rent, entitled to nothing elsewhere means starting where we were here.

speaking with my aunt who lives in perth and they pay a singular council tax which pretty much covers all the services we pay a fortune for here... including refuse

don't worry i know starting from scratch won't be easy or cheap at first but with two good careers and qualifications behind us we should be just fine.

Starting from scratch is a hell of a lot easier than climbing up an ice mountain [which is what living here is].

You will pay taxes everywhere, but you expect some services and respect from your government in return. What goes on here is no less than financial abuse.

And it's never too late to start anew elsewhere.

fasttalkerchat

The Th!ng wrote: »

€4 per bag, €8 per wheelie bin.

I mean if you do it yourself, at a council dump.

The Th!ng

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I mean if you do it yourself, at a council dump.

The prices I quoted are what my local civic amenity charges, I was with Oxigen, but they had an upfront charge of €160 per year, plus €8 per wheelie bin after that, and they were not all that reliable so I didn't renew the contract with them. I've seen lots of people with Mr. BinMan bins, Oxigen, Greenstar, Waste Pal, etc at the facility disposing of the waste themselves.

woodoo

(b)A holder shall enter into a contract with a permitted waste collector for the collection of that waste, unless otherwise agreed by the appointed person in the Council.

The requirement for (b) above does not apply to waste holders that can demonstrate to the satisfaction of an authorised person that they have access to a waste collection and disposal service and provide the necessary documentary evidence of same.

That is basically the sting taken out of this new plan. We won't have to sign on with a waste collector and pay them a set fee to collect our waste. It will still be pay as you go, you can take the waste to the recycling centre or put the bins out for the collector its not a big deal so long as you can demonstrate you are disposing of your waste lawfully.

twowheelsonly

Anyone wrote: »

Thats shocking OP, imagine.....having to pay for a service.If this continues you wont get anything for free!!!

Except in this case you're not paying for using a service - you're paying for not using a service.
As has already been pointed out here many people choose to use local amenity services and recycling facilities which works out a hell of a lot cheaper.

hamsterboy wrote: »

This is laughable. I burn any food waste in my fireplace. Recycle all bottles and cans and then anything else is bagged and once every few weeks I fill the boot of the Scenic and bring it to the waste management depot.... Nothing illegal, just frugal and now they wanna penalise me... Bring it on!

Dionysius2

The Th!ng wrote: »

Any site taking waste from the public for a fee must be giving out receipts.

My local civic amenity site takes household waste, you put your money into a cash machine before disposal and you are issued with a receipt showing the amount paid, date and time, receipt id, etc.

But this as you say only applies to the Household waste (the kitchen food leftovers etc) and not to the newspapers, bottles, tincans, etc.......you can bring that stuff along to the waste disposal place too but no receipt issues which is what I do so how can I then show that I did bring my waste to the right place ?

cursai

just ignore it. like the tv licence

tdv123

Keno 92 wrote: »

Start your own waste collection business.

Problem solved.

Out of curiosity what do you need to prove in a court that you actually have & run your own business?

stoneill

Anyone wrote: »

Thats shocking OP, imagine.....having to pay for a service.If this continues you wont get anything for free!!!

You misunderstand - he is being forced to pay for a service he does not use or need.
Similar to people being forced to pay for a TV licence when they have a TV or not, and water charges when they have their own source of water and septic tank charges, a tax on your shíte.

Nobody really complains about a service they use, unless the service is below standard, less than acceptable and not very efficient which is all too common.

Essentially the property tax is what was once called rates - and they were used to pay for services like bins, water and a annual scrap collection etc.
Flash forward to now - we pay rates and now we also pay for all the services whether we use them or not.
See? That is what irks people.

Chinasea

The sooner the better.

I for one am sick of smelling burning toxic fumes from neighbours back yards under the veil of darkness, seeing bust open black bags with houshold waste strewn around the paths rotting and festering.

Was in town lately up around the Smithfields area and beyond and the place was horrendous with rubbish dumped at every corner. Plenty out here in Dun Laoghaire also. It is sickening.

As usual, most of us (willingly) comply for the greater good, but there will be those that care only about themselves and therefore this needs to be addressed.

Systemic Risk

Maybe not a bad idea. I was out jogging yesterday just outside galway city, really beautifiul, hilly landscape but it sickened me to see the amount of rubbish dumped in fields along my route.

Truley

Chinasea wrote: »

The sooner the better.

I for one am sick of smelling burning toxic fumes from neighbours back yards under the veil of darkness, seeing bust open black bags with houshold waste strewn around the paths rotting and festering.

Was in town lately up around the Smithfields area and beyond and the place was horrendous with rubbish dumped at every corner. Plenty out here in Dun Laoghaire also. It is sickening.

As usual, most of us (willingly) comply for the greater good, but there will be those that care only about themselves and therefore this needs to be addressed.

Systemic Risk wrote: »

Maybe not a bad idea. I was out jogging yesterday just outside galway city, really beautifiul, hilly landscape but it sickened me to see the amount of rubbish dumped in fields along my route.

Ah come on! the kinds of people that do this kind of thing are going to do it no matter what. I have two compost heaps, all my food/garden waste, tea leaves, pet litter, paper and cardboard goes in it. Plastics etc go in the recycle bin. Between two of us we have only put out about three bins in two years. One was mostly the previous tenants' rubbish and the others weren't even full they were just starting to smell. I already pay for this service. All this is going to do is penalise the law abiding, and not make a blind bit of difference for the people that illegally dump or dodge waste charges. Typical.

And by the way, my frugality with waste management is as much about concern for the environment as it is for financial saving. So even if I did have to pay a blanket fee, I wont be changing how I compost or recycle. Though I imagine many people will. So it's a real sickener on two accounts. :mad:

Wibbs

Chinasea wrote: »

As usual, most of us (willingly) comply for the greater good

There's a sentence that gives me the creeps TBH.

iguana

Dionysius2 wrote: »

But this as you say only applies to the Household waste (the kitchen food leftovers etc) and not to the newspapers, bottles, tincans, etc.......you can bring that stuff along to the waste disposal place too but no receipt issues which is what I do so how can I then show that I did bring my waste to the right place ?

I guess you'll just have to keep the receipts you do have and as back-up maybe take a few photos that demonstrate that you recycle the majority of your waste. Ime most household waste can be disposed of for free. When I first moved back to Ireland my waste disposal cost less than €24 a year as it took 14 months to fill my black bin 3 times at €8 a lift. Then the next thing I know I'm being charged €50 a year just to be signed up to a service with bin lifts at €10. Opting out and paying €2 a sack at the bring centre is the only thing that makes sense in that scenario.

I think I'd enjoy getting asked to demonstrate how I deal with my waste. I'd love nothing more than to shove the head of whatever idiot came up with this fine into a bucket of my son's dirty cotton nappies. Preferably after he starts eating solids and his shít actually stinks.

_Kaiser_

OK I'm confused... maybe it's too early on a Sunday morning.

I rent an apartment in Dublin (non Corporation area). I have 2 bins - a black bin and there's a shared big green pin parked in a common area out the back.

The black bin goes out maybe once every 6 months (I live alone and cooking doesn't extend much past heating it, deep-frying it, or ordering it in) whereas I throw a bag full of recyclables into the green bin once/twice a week. Both bins are picked up once a week for everyone in the estate.

So what changes will this mean to me?

The Th!ng

Dionysius2 wrote: »

But this as you say only applies to the Household waste (the kitchen food leftovers etc) and not to the newspapers, bottles, tincans, etc.......you can bring that stuff along to the waste disposal place too but no receipt issues which is what I do so how can I then show that I did bring my waste to the right place ?

Explain to the staff that you need proof of disposal, ask them for a hand written receipt on headed paper.

ilovesleep

To some degree I can understand the reasoning behind this. I know in my locality and just on my road alone I can count at least 8 houses that never puts out a bin and in about 20 years have I ever seen a bin outside their place on bin collection day. In my own locality we used to have bin tags which moved to bin bags and many people then signed up for wheelie bins. But these houses, not one bag in years.

Every house occupied by people generates waste. Where are these people dumping their trash. I know it's been highlighted here that there are other services like bring your own trash into a dump. From the households, I have in mind, I doubt very much that they do this. 3 of them alone do illegal dumping. I know one who uses public bins. Drive down late at night to dump his bins. Another one who uses bogs. And another who uses other peoples bins.

I think this proposal is a good move. It will catch many stingy b@stards out. However, many people who fall in between the two ends of illegal dumping and wheelie bin service collection like using other ways for rubbish removal, maybe bin tags as an example, will be caught up in this and I don't think that's fair.

Irish Steve

Hmmmmmm........

Looks to me like the Dublin councils have "discovered" that they are on a hook they can't get off with the Ringsend Incinerator plan, so this is another way of making sure that there is enough garbage to feed the thing.

There is of course the thought that if enough local authority services are privatised, there will no longer be a need for local authorities. What's the betting that the fat cats at the top will have found another semi state to milk the system in.

Seems to me it would be simpler if we just let them introduce a simple communist system. That seems to be the way it's heading.

If it wasn't for my children being stuck here, I'd be gone, they've already destroyed my property value. my pension scheme and the rest of my retirement plans. now they're starting to make it impossible to even think about rebuilding any sort of future, and at nearly retiring age, I'm not sure I can cope with trying any more.

Maybe the only answer is a mass protest vote for SF, at least we'd be certain that the policies would be different to what we're being insulted with now.

clairefontaine

There are some areas of rural Ireland where there is no competition and one company will servive your area. So in effect there are little monopolies here and there, and now the government is going to back them up?

This situation is somewhat worse than communism, because you are in effect paying public taxes and private fees.

More and more the phrase "freedom to travel", usually applied to pregnant women, seems to be applying to the entire country.

What are the Irish people going to do about this?

ilovesleep

I reckon another reasoning behind this could be due to the property tax and how it's claimed it's for public services in your locality (and it's not and we all know it's not). People could backlash and force it to be for public services by for example cancelling their bins and dumping their trash at public bins. So the councíls are just one step ahead.

The Th!ng

If anyone calls to your house offering to take your rubbish the first thing you should do is ask them to show you their waste collection permit.

There is no charge on the disposal of household waste electrical equipment, yet all too often you'll see washing machines, cookers, televisions, etc dumped along the road.

The Th!ng

ilovesleep wrote: »

People could backlash and force it to be for public services by for example cancelling their bins and dumping their trash at public bins.

This is the reason why local authorities are often reluctant to introduce new public bins in areas.

Tazz T

I send all mine into space. What's next? A tax on domestic interstellar flight programmes?

madrabui

€75 fine for not having the service? €290 is the standing charge for the ONLY available waste collection service here.

I recycle or compost everything possible and purchase responsibly therefore I only need to use black bins a few times a year at €3.50 a bag.

Am I reading this correctly? It makes more sense for me to pay the fine rather than sign up for the service?

I can see that illegal dumping is increasing, but f**king hell being a goody f**king twoshoes doesn't pay off financially, only environmentally.

_Kaiser_

clairefontaine wrote: »

What are the Irish people going to do about this?

The same thing they always do.. whinge, whine and then pay up anyway

We don't "do" civic responsibility in this country (or responsibility at all if we can help it). That's why despite the ranting about SF and 800 years and so on, we were falling over ourselves to hand over our "Independence" when we got it - first to the Church, then to the EU - because we just can't be let at the controls ourselves or stuff like this happens.

Add in greed, inferiority complexes (the "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality which has now become the "what are they getting away with that I'm not?" mindset), the "ah shure it'll be grand" approach to EVERYTHING, and then the insistence on voting in more of the same incompetent, corrupt clowns because "dey fixed de road" or "dey got my planning application through" or "my daddy/mammy voted for them" and is it really any surprise the country is in the mess it is?

Best thing that could happen here (and I'm sincere in this) is that Enda goes cap in hand to Lizzie and asks if she wouldn't mind very much stepping in again cause we've totally ballsed it up in not even 100 years! Before the flaming starts, what differences would we see.. the shops wouldn't change, the TV wouldn't change (which covers most of the population) and we might actually benefit from a system that while not perfect itself, at least has to be better than the twisted mess we made of it (seeing as we based most of our laws on UK examples anyway)

ilovesleep

clairefontaine wrote: »

There are some areas of rural Ireland where there is no competition and one company will servive your area. So in effect there are little monopolies here and there, and now the government is going to back them up?

This situation is somewhat worse than communism, because you are in effect paying public taxes and private fees.

That's it. Where I am from there is one company doing the service. Last time I priced the wheelie bins, it was charged at 480 a year. I'm guessing it's gone up now because of VAT increase. They also do bin bags (scandalous in that bags got much, much smaller for more and more money).

Making it compulsory and everyone to sign up, you would like to think that it may reduce the charge/fee for all involved but realisitically that won't happen. We'll be locked into something compulsory and the prices will keep on rising.