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Mother of Mark Quinsey dies

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Comments

  • #102
    Fromthetrees
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭Fromthetrees


    catallus wrote: »

    It is not the same thing at all. And if you need explaining why you can't compare an army, any army, and the bloody RIRA then you need to get a grip.

    Which of them are responsible for more death, destruction and misery?


  • #103
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    gurramok wrote: »

    What? Civil rights protesters should not get shot by an army who are suppose to respect the law of a sovereign state, they should not shoot their citizens. They are supposed to shoot at other soldiers.

    A soldier is armed and trained to be armed, they expect danger when on patrol in a hostile environment. Seriously you sound by a TUV advocate.

    I agree with your first paragraph completely.

    I also agree with your second one (minus the TUV stuff). However the soldier wasn't on patrol in a hostile environment. He was getting a mighty meaty deluxe from Dominos. It was a British soldier murdered on British soil by some deluded scumbag.


  • #104
    Fromthetrees
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭Fromthetrees


    Seachmall wrote: »

    This is the red herring I mentioned.

    Congratulations on finding it.

    It's your comparison to 'back up' your point.

    It's a stupid comparison to make.


  • #105
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Fromthetrees wrote: »
    Which of them are responsible for more death, destruction and misery?

    It doesn't matter.


  • #106
    0066ad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭0066ad


    Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »
    The adults are talking here. Off to bed now, you little scamp you :)


    Again you are an idiot


  • #107
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Seachmall wrote: »
    No, that'd be a red herring.

    The point originally made by gurramok and extended upon by others was that if you choose a career that puts you in danger you should not be surprised when you get killed. Regardless if you believed you were out of danger. Others seem to have inferred that as a result sympathy is somewhat unwarranted.

    However, when I take those exact criteria and apply them to an Irish man nobody wants to back the point.

    So as far as I can tell it's less about the choices he made in terms of a career path but more a politicised attack on the BA. Which is a shame because as far as I can tell he never killed an innocent civilian. We're painting him with a tainted brush despite him never having done anything wrong.

    I agree with guramok's statement and your interpretation of it but not attaching any inferences to guramok's statement or my reply. Whether sympathy is justified IMO depends on the ethics of the duty the person was killed over, assuming the undertaking was of their own volition, I really can't see any other terms in which to discuss it. For the ERU Garda by and large he will be trying to prevent criminality in his own society but for the soldier it is much more arbitrary.

    I think if I went to fight for something and I was killed I would not want sympathy, perhaps admiration or respect if the cause was just, but not sympathy, because it was my choice. I would not agree to fight, and kill, for a cause that was not of my choosing.


  • #108
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    Fromthetrees wrote: »
    It's your comparison to 'back up' your point.

    It's a stupid comparison to make.

    You're repeatedly missing the point of my posts.

    Don't call them stupid if you don't understand them. I'm very sensitive to that type of malarky.


  • #109
    Fromthetrees
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭Fromthetrees


    catallus wrote: »

    It doesn't matter.

    So the atrocities that the BA have carried out both here and abroad don't matter.

    Okay.


  • #110
    hedzball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 764 ✭✭✭hedzball


    Mario Jardel wrote: »
    Ok that's your own opinion.

    Was it just criminality with Michael Collins, De Valera etc too ya?


    jesus christ

    near 100 years ago.

    Totally different causes now..

    one being justified the other deplorable.



    Yer smart enough on that one..


  • #111
    Fromthetrees
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭Fromthetrees


    Seachmall wrote: »

    You're repeatedly missing the point of my posts.

    Don't call them stupid if you don't understand them. I'm very sensitive to that type of malarky.

    I understand the point you're trying to make.

    I think you're wrong.


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  • #112
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    Fromthetrees wrote: »

    I understand the point you're trying to make.

    I think you're wrong.

    Okay, how about Irish Defence Forces soldiers killed?

    Pte Patrick Kelly, shot and killed by the IRA in 1983. Do you think his family is deserving of sympathy?


  • #113
    December2012
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    Mario Jardel wrote: »
    Serious Question:

    But like why did she let her son join the British Army?

    because its not an appointment for the Dr when you're in school and your mam gives you a note.

    It was his career choice as an adult.

    Do you do what your Mammy tells you?


  • #114
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »
    It was a British soldier murdered on British soil by some deluded scumbag.

    British soil? Do you have any coherent concept of geography? Britain is the land mass to the east of Ireland. If Ireland was part of Britain it would be 'West Britain'.

    CWIDT?


  • #115
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    Chuck Stone wrote: »

    British soil? Do you have any coherent concept of geography? Britain is the land mass to the west of Ireland.
    Apologies. Meant to say UK.


  • #116
    ringadingding
    Registered Users Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭ringadingding


    The Blondie one is cute enough


  • #117
    Fromthetrees
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭Fromthetrees


    Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

    Okay, how about Irish Defence Forces soldiers killed?

    Pte Patrick Kelly, shot and killed by the IRA in 1983. Do you think his family is deserving of sympathy?

    Well anyone who joins the IDF will go in with the understanding that they will likely be deployed as a peace keeper. They literally save lives.

    When you join the BA you will know that in all likelihood you will be going to war against a third world nation.

    If you join either the US or UK army you are training to become a killer to fight outrageous wars without UN backing.


  • #118
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    humbert wrote: »
    Whether sympathy is justified IMO depends on the ethics of the duty the person was killed over assuming the undertaking was of their own volition,
    But he wasn't killed over his ethics of duty. He was killed over his career choices.
    For the ERU Garda by and large he will be trying to prevent criminality in his own society but for the soldier it is much more arbitrary.
    The British Army remain in Afghanistan on invitation from the Afghani government as part of a NATO mandate. If a British soldier joins to help train Afghani military and militias who want to maintain peace in the region is that not comparable to an ERU Garda who wants to maintain peace in Ireland?


  • #119
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Fromthetrees wrote: »
    Well anyone who joins the IDF will go in with the understanding that they will likely be deployed as a peace keeper. They literally save lives.

    Join the Army - save lives.

    Really?

    The Apache Helicopter™, saving lives since 1986.


  • #120
    humbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    Seachmall wrote: »
    But he wasn't killed over his ethics of duty. He was killed over his career choices.The British Army remain in Afghanistan on invitation from the Afghani government as part of a NATO/ISAF mandate. If a British soldier joins to help train Afghani military and militias who want to maintain peace in the region is that not comparable to an ERU Garda who wants to maintain peace in Ireland?
    I was suggesting that ethics are a determining factor in how he is regarded, few people are killed over ethics.

    I don't know nearly enough about the Afgan government and how representative they are or their people to answer that. What I do know is that a soldier doesn't get to choose the battles he will fight in upon joining.


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  • #121
    0066ad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭0066ad


    Seachmall wrote: »
    But he wasn't killed over his ethics of duty. He was killed over his career choices.The British Army remain in Afghanistan on invitation from the Afghani government as part of a NATO mandate. If a British soldier joins to help train Afghani military and militias who want to maintain peace in the region is that not comparable to an ERU Garda who wants to maintain peace in Ireland?

    His career choice was to protect Queen and country with his life.


  • #122
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Seachmall wrote: »
    If a British soldier joins to help train Afghani military and militias who want to maintain peace in the region is that not comparable to an ERU Garda who wants to maintain peace in Ireland?

    No, we don't have an insurgency war, if we did there would be Irish troops manning barricades and in outposts on our streets as a deterrent against daily killings. The ERU are in support of the Gardai, not the Army.


  • #123
    Seachmall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,041 ✭✭✭Seachmall


    gurramok wrote: »
    No, we don't have an insurgency war, if we did there would be Irish troops manning barricades and in outposts on our streets as a deterrent against daily killings. The ERU are in support of the Gardai, not the Army.

    I'm clearly comparing the want to maintain peace.


  • #124
    Captain Chaos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Join the Army - save lives.

    Really?

    The Apache Helicopter™, saving lives since 1986.

    It does save lives, the lives of the ground troops they are protecting. Except for the US friendly fire in Gulf War 1 when they blew up one of their own tanks at night after mis ID'ing it for an enemy tank.

    At times you have to take like to save life. It's who's life that matters to you at the end of the day. Live by the sword, die by the sword and all that.


  • #125
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Not going well and isn't going to end well.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



This discussion has been closed.
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