I haven't received property tax letter yet

Technoprisoner

murphaph wrote: »

But if they know you are liable but have a different address for tax returns, then it'll go there. I know, I got mine this way.

but i am NOT liable!!!!! i dont own a property anywhere in ireland...they are clutching at straws in the hope they get lucky and send it to the correct person...there are news reports of 17 year olds getting a property tax bill

Technoprisoner

relax carry on wrote: »

Again if you read the booklet it explains.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/lpt/local-property-tax-guide.pdf

6. I have received a Return but I am not the liable person, what do I have to do?
Because Revenue has compiled a Register of residential properties from various sources, it may contain errors in relation to the ownership of some properties. If you receive a Return and you consider that you are not the liable person for the property, or that the property is not a residential property (see Question 2), you should inform Revenue by writing to: LPT Branch, P.O. Box 1, Limerick within 30 days of the date of the enclosed letter and include:
● The name(s), address(es) and PPSN(s) of the liable person(s).
● The reason(s) why you consider you are not the liable person or why the property is not a residential property.
● Whatever supporting documentation (copies are sufficient) may be relevant, e.g. copy of a lease agreement if you are a tenant; proof of sale of the property before 1 May 2013 etc.
Based on this information Revenue will consider your claim and make a decision on the matter. It is important that you contact Revenue to correct our Register because in the absence of any correction, you are liable to pay the tax.

im sorry...none of that will be happening...they can do there job themselves and find out who owns the property

Ogham

Technoprisoner wrote: »

im sorry...none of that will be happening...they can do there job themselves and find out who owns the property

I guess your parents own the house and Revenue have associated you with the address maybe because you have paid tax from that address in the recent past?

If you can't be bothered to tell them who owns it they will just chase you for the money. It's all in the legislation. Save yourself the future hassle and just tell them who owns it. (If you don't and you are working your employer will get instructed to tell them to deduct it from your wages because you haven't paid it.)

Technoprisoner

Ogham wrote: »

I guess your parents own the house and Revenue have associated you with the address maybe because you have paid tax from that address in the recent past?

If you can't be bothered to tell them who owns it they will just chase you for the money. It's all in the legislation. Save yourself the future hassle and just tell them who owns it. (If you don't and you are working your employer will get instructed to tell them to deduct it from your wages because you haven't paid it.)

they can sing for it....but my main point is....the people that are suppose to be over looking this haven't a clue who to charge...they are guessing and sending out bills to everyone and anyone in the hope they get lucky and send one to the correct person...there is a great maxim in law

Cujus per errorem dati repetitio est, ejus consult dati donatio est.

Whoever pays by mistake what he does not owe, may recover it back; but he who pays, knowing he owes nothing; is presumed to give.

or how about

Consensus facit legem

Consent makes the law. A contract is a law between the parties, which can acquire force only by consent.

i do not have a contract and i do not consent to my wages been taken

Eglinton

The last few posts have raised my ire somewhat. My biggest problem is with the following contained in the Revenue letter:

Based on this information Revenue will consider your claim and make a decision on the matter. It is important that you contact Revenue to correct our Register because in the absence of any correction, you are liable to pay the tax.

Now I have just received this letter but I am a tenant. As I do not want to be liable I will certainly send the Revenue a letter with a copy of the lease etc.

However, I agree with Technoprisonor:
Why should I be the one who has to do the Revenue's job? I pay my rent to the Landlord who certainly has all his tax affairs in order so they should have a record.
I do not own the property so how could I be liable for the tax?

Makes no sense.

TheBandicoot

Technoprisoner wrote: »

Consensus facit legem

Consent makes the law. A contract is a law between the parties, which can acquire force only by consent.

By remaining a citizen of our country you have a social contract to follow our laws, and our laws say you must inform the Revenue of the true owners. Just do it.

Technoprisoner

TheBandicoot wrote: »

By remaining a citizen of our country you have a social contract to follow our laws, and our laws say you must inform the Revenue of the true owners. Just do it.

where does it say that in our constitution?

Clive

Technoprisoner wrote: »

Consent makes the law. A contract is a law between the parties, which can acquire force only by consent.

i do not have a contract and i do not consent to my wages been taken

Did you consent to the USC being deducted?

Technoprisoner

Clive wrote: »

Did you consent to the USC being deducted?

no...did you?

Cathmandooo

Got ours today after getting one for the former owner last week. 3 bands above what we'll be paying, 2 bands above what the website said, pretty big jump! Glad to have it sorted anyway

UDP

Eglinton wrote: »

The last few posts have raised my ire somewhat. My biggest problem is with the following contained in the Revenue letter:



Now I have just received this letter but I am a tenant. As I do not want to be liable I will certainly send the Revenue a letter with a copy of the lease etc.

However, I agree with Technoprisonor:
Why should I be the one who has to do the Revenue's job? I pay my rent to the Landlord who certainly has all his tax affairs in order so they should have a record.
I do not own the property so how could I be liable for the tax?

Makes no sense.

would you rather the government spent millions trying to find this information out a different way? I don't. It's not that big of an inconvenience.

Technoprisoner

UDP wrote: »

would you rather the government spent millions trying to find this information out a different way? I don't. It's not that big of an inconvenience.

no...but forcing an unjust tax on somebody else has moral implications that i would prefer not to get involved in....another good maxim of law for this is

The burden of proof lies upon him who affirms, not on him who denies.

Clive

Technoprisoner wrote: »

no...did you?

No, that's my point. Taxes are not a contract and do not require consent. Your employer will act on Revenue's instructions regardless of your consent or not.

Eglinton

UDP wrote: »

would you rather the government spent millions trying to find this information out a different way? I don't. It's not that big of an inconvenience.

Hang on. I said above that I would let them know. Writing a letter is certainly no big deal. I'm questioning why, for some reason I can't fathom, would I be liable to pay a tax for something I don't own. I'd be more than happy to forward my motor tax bill to you next month for instance. But I don't think you're likely to pay it.

Technoprisoner

Clive wrote: »

No, that's my point. Taxes are not a contract and do not require consent. Your employer will act on Revenue's instructions regardless of your consent or not.

You want to know the funny thing though


You do sign a contract as a teenager to agree to pay taxes when you are given your pps number.... Not exactly legal as you are underage to enter into contract

relax carry on

Technoprisoner wrote: »

You want to know the funny thing though


You do sign a contract as a teenager to agree to pay taxes when you are given your pps number.... Not exactly legal as you are underage to enter into contract

As pps numbers are now given to babies, can you advise what contract they sign and when. Thanks.

Victor

This thread is about local property tax letters. Desist from other lines of discussion.

Moderator

UDP

Eglinton wrote: »

Hang on. I said above that I would let them know. Writing a letter is certainly no big deal. I'm questioning why, for some reason I can't fathom, would I be liable to pay a tax for something I don't own. I'd be more than happy to forward my motor tax bill to you next month for instance. But I don't think you're likely to pay it.

But they already have good records on who owns what car and I am also not in possession of your car so why would they think that your car tax is for me to pay? They don't have the same regarding property which is ridiculus but it is where we are at. We have to start somewhere and this is the quickest and cheapest way to do it. I doubt anybody will be stuck paying a tax if it is not there's to be paid.

Eglinton

UDP wrote: »

But they already have good records on who owns what car and I am also not in possession of your car so why would they think that your car tax is for me to pay? They don't have the same regarding property which is ridiculus but it is where we are at. We have to start somewhere and this is the quickest and cheapest way to do it. I doubt anybody will be stuck paying a tax if it is not there's to be paid.

I'm not disagreeing with you - simply using a silly example to make my point. In the same way that you wouldn't pay my car tax, why should I pay my landlord's tax. I have no issue telling the Revenue who the landlord is and will do so this week. But for them to say that I would be liable for the tax is crazy if I don't own the dwelling.

UDP

Eglinton wrote: »

But for them to say that I would be liable for the tax is crazy if I don't own the dwelling.

Liable unless you tell them otherwise. If they didn't do that then nobody would tell them otherwise. Plus you don't have to own the building to be liable for the tax. If for instance you have a 20 year lease on a property then it is the tenant that is liable - there is no way for them to know this type of information ahead of time.

Ogham

It's in the legislation - they don't need to confirm ownership ...

"In administering this Act generally or in exercising any power
to make an estimate or an assessment or to require the delivery of a
return in relation to any relevant residential property or in exercising
any other power thereunder—

(a) the Revenue Commissioners shall not be required firstly
to inquire into the ownership of, or title to, any particular
residential property, and
(b) all such facts and circumstances relating to the occupation
of a residential property by a person as give rise to an
inference that that person is the owner thereof may be
taken into account by the Revenue Commissioners"

TwoShedsJackson

Got ours yesterday, rated one band above what I'm going to declare, as I thought it might be.

Supercell

Update: Received the letter and am fit to be tied . They have valued the house at least one band higher than its worth. Not one house similar to mine in the area has sold in this band in the last 3 years. I paid well below this band in late 2011 and prices have fallen since.
I most definitely will not accept this ridiculous valuation, not happy at all.

UDP

Supercell wrote: »

Update: Received the letter and am fit to be tied . They have valued the house at least one band higher than its worth. Not one house similar to mine in the area has sold in this band in the last 3 years. I paid well below this band in late 2011 and prices have fallen since.
I most definitely will not accept this ridiculous valuation, not happy at all.

Not sure why it would annoy you though since you can just put in the correct value. Theirs is just a blunt estimate probably always on the higher side.

ted1

Got mine today Andy property is valued at over twice what I paid in May. 2012, anyone want to buy it ?

Supercell

ted1 wrote: »

Got mine today Andy property is valued at over twice what I paid in May. 2012, anyone want to buy it ?

Lol! I felt the exact same when I got mine!, maybe the revenue would be interested in buying mine of at the value they put on it, would make a tidy profit!

I went around the street and talked to a few of my neighbours and we are all in agreement that the valuations are inaccurate compared to what prices are currently fetching according to the property price register (which the revenue seem to have totally ignored). We will all put a valuation one band below apart from one person who believes two bands below is more accurate. Must admit I'm tempted to do the same given that prices are still falling and Cyprus has made the eurozone shaky again.

Cathmandooo

+1 how I'd wish we could sell our place for what was on the letter, that would be a dream!

Supercell I'd be careful about dipping too low when your neighbours are in the higher bracket, afaik it's a valuation based on May 1st exactly and not what it might dip to further into the year.

menoscemo

These guys are a joke.
I am registered with revenue as living in my property for the last 6 years, receive Interest relief at source on my Mortgage, and yet they proceed to send out the property tax letter to my ex flatmate who doesn't even live here any more.
Now I have to go through a rigmarole to pay, as I have to get him to send in a letter stating he is not liable. I want to pay online but they wont let me log in with my PPS number.

To top it all off they value my Apartment at over 5 times the market value (according to their own Valuation website and the Property register) :rolleyes:

UDP

menoscemo wrote: »

These guys are a joke.
I am registered with revenue as living in my property for the last 6 years, receive Interest relief at source on my Mortgage, and yet they proceed to send out the property tax letter to my ex flatmate who doesn't even live here any more.
Now I have to go through a rigmarole to pay, as I have to get him to send in a letter stating he is not liable. I want to pay online but they wont let me log in with my PPS number.

To top it all off they value my Apartment at over 5 times the market value (according to their own Valuation website and the Property register) :rolleyes:

you don't need the get your ex Tennant to do anything. Just ring them up yourself and tell them you are liable.

Victor

menoscemo wrote: »

but they wont let me log in with my PPS number.

Do you honestly think they would?