Ireland Vs Austria - K/O 7:45PM - Sky Sports 2 & RTÉ 2

counterlock

happydayz182 wrote: »

First time going to Aviva.. best way to get tickets?

Theres still lots on ticketmaster

SlickRic

McCarthy is the only player we have in midfield that encourages us to keep the ball.

he is our best midfielder, so it's vital he plays more often.

his partnership with Green worked well on Friday, but Whelan can do Green's job if need be.

we actually don't have anyone else that can do what McCarthy does in there.

i'd talk about Coleman, Wilson, O'Shea and the likes needing to start, but i've no doubt they will. i bring up McCarthy, because there is a decent chance he won't start if Trap believes Whelan is fit enough, seen as the Whelan/Green axis was the one he was going to go for on Friday.

jimjamcos

Those writing Keane off as finished should remember that, him aside, the best Irish striker in terms of his goals-to-game ratio over the last decade was this man...We've been blessed to have Keane.




I'd of been happy to see Hoolohan start ahead of him on Tuesday with him coming on with 30mins left as I think the game will be extremely tight and likely to be decided in the last quarter. It's clear Keane hasn't got the fitness to be effective over 90mins but where do all his detractors see the goals coming from in his absence? Long got one great chance against Sweden and ballooned it over.

For Keane's obvious lack of work-rate in comparison to a young gun like Long, his finishing and coolness under pressure would make him vital if used in the last 20/30mins of matches - most important period when most of our games are there to be won.

I've no problem with Robbie being a sub for Ireland at this stage in his career but he should continue to play whatever role his body allows him until he no longer can. He's, technically, our best stiker. Simple.

Some Irish fans really won't know his worth until he calls it a day.

counterlock

jimjamcos wrote: »

Those writing Keane off as finished should remember that, him aside, the best Irish striker in terms of his goals-to-game ratio over the last decade was this man...We've been blessed to have Keane.

And what a man he is.

jimjamcos

counterlock wrote: »

And what a man he is.

Scored his first goal in 7 months there last week so he's in form! Does trap have his number I wonder!?

noodler

roanoke wrote: »

Doubt it. Keane's the golden child. He can swan off to MLS and let his form go to pot and still expect to be one of the first names on the Ireland teamsheet.

I'm sure Keane probably got a three page letter written with fountain-pen and secured in wax with Trap's family seal.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Some dreadful posting in this thread to get us started. Keane is a huge loss. Not too many goals in the other forward options thus far this season.

SlickRic wrote: »

anyone who thinks Keane isn't a loss is a bit clueless, and more than a bit disrespectful.

i wanted him off on Friday after 65/70, as it was clear he wasn't that sharp.

but to not have him at all is a big loss on Tuesday, and it's ignorant to think any different.

whatever people think of him, he scores. and Ireland are not blessed with goalscorers.

Here here.

Top scorer in both our last campaigns by a mile. Nobody has really shown in a green jersey that they can replace his goals. I really hope Long scores on Tuesday.

SantryRed wrote: »

I don't think Keane is a loss for Tuesday. He is a loss to bring off the bench if we are going all out attack in the final 20. But I don't think he gives us enough in his all around play, and he hasn't been scoring for Ireland in recent times, so having Hoolahan (Hopefully) in there instead of him will be a big boost to us being able to keep possession and dominate the game.

Yeah, at this stage Keane off the bench is a great option to have.

Alot of people like the whole fresh start thing but it has to be hugely beneficial for the team that Keane sticks around, even in a part-time capacity, in terms of encouragement, advice and even the odd goal.



On the formation I'll play Devil's advocate and say that in all my years as an Ireland fan I think it is fair to say most people would not be happy playing one striker up front against a team below us in the seedings. I wanted 4-5-1 for the away game on Friday but I really don't know what I want for Tuesday.

Banjaxed82

jimjamcos wrote: »

Those writing Keane off as finished should remember that, him aside, the best Irish striker in terms of his goals-to-game ratio over the last decade was this man...We've been blessed to have Keane.




I'd of been happy to see Hoolohan start ahead of him on Tuesday with him coming on with 30mins left as I think the game will be extremely tight and likely to be decided in the last quarter. It's clear Keane hasn't got the fitness to be effective over 90mins but where do all his detractors see the goals coming from in his absence? Long got one great chance against Sweden and ballooned it over.

For Keane's obvious lack of work-rate in comparison to a young gun like Long, his finishing and coolness under pressure would make him vital if used in the last 20/30mins of matches - most important period when most of our games are there to be won.

I've no problem with Robbie being a sub for Ireland at this stage in his career but he should continue to play whatever role his body allows him until he no longer can. He's, technically, our best stiker. Simple.

Some Irish fans really won't know his worth until he calls it a day.

The issue with Robbie is would he be happy flying 12 hours to be a sub (who mightn't even come on)?

Maybe he would. If so, hats off to him. Commitment personified if that's the case.

jimjamcos

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

The issue with Robbie is would he be happy flying 12 hours to be a sub (who mightn't even come on)?

Maybe he would. If so, hats off to him. Commitment personified if that's the case.

I read in newspapers today that he wants to play until Euro 2016 when he'll be 36!! His commitment isn't in doubt. There's no doubt in my mind that he can still be a huge asset to us off the bench. We just need a manager strong enough to use him in such a way, which will benefit both the team and himself long-term.

Pro. F

eagle eye wrote: »

The James McCarthy love around here has gone way ott. He played very well on Friday and I hope he starts on Tuesday too but you'd swear he was the only player on the pitch the other night the way some people are going on.

What people? Link to the posts where people are giving him over the top praise to that extent.

The only reason he is getting so many mentions on the board is because of Trap's ridiculous treatment of him followed by his good performance in the game. Trap was going to leave him out of Friday's game and then publicly slagged him off. As far as we know, at the moment Trap's preferred midfield is Whelan and Green, so of course there is going to be lots of talk about McCarthy.

McCarthy is the most skilful central midfielder we have. Him getting a bit of praise for that and people being excited does not mean that the other players' contributions are being ignored.

El Inho

just to make it absolutely clear...robbie has been an excellent servant, and fair play to him for what he has done....

that doesn't mean he should be starting every game. he's from a generation of players who have all retired....so its time. he offers very little minus experience. which i will concede is useful, but off the pitch.

monkey9

One all. That Villa lad Weimann (sic) wil have the Austrians one up at half time and Doyle will equalise in the last ten minutes.

newballsplease

Anyone know how many times Green gave away possesion fri nite? 3/4 i think but maybe more.
Good workrate is about as far as id go to say he had a good game.

bren2001

El Spearo wrote: »

just to make it absolutely clear...robbie has been an excellent servant, and fair play to him for what he has done....

that doesn't mean he should be starting every game. he's from a generation of players who have all retired....so its time. he offers very little minus experience. which i will concede is useful, but off the pitch.

He is younger than Duff and Given. If they had not retired in the summer both would still offer us a lot. Given wasn't given the chance to come back. He is still our best keeper however. He is also younger than Dunne who has, arguably, the most to offer.

He is also the only player in the squad who consistently nicks goals. He has a ridiculous amount to offer coming off the bench.

He can also be a leader on the pitch. Teach players like McClean and Brady what kind of delivery he needs etc.

Robbie Keane will go down as one of the best strikers we have produced. I don't want to see him gone just yet.

Pro. F

roanoke wrote: »

It's all much of a muchness up front at this stage. Since he moved to MLS Keane has pretty much dried up for Ireland. He scored 3 goals in 15 games for Ireland over that period (and two of those were penalties).

If ones argument is to keep Keane in the team because he scores goals and the others don't then that much is hardly true anymore either.

Just don't let Walters take the peno if we get one on Tuesday and we should be ok without Keane.

From footballl-lineups.com I see 13 games since he went to LA. But that includes 2 friendlies and 3 games in the Euros where we were played off the park. The last qualification campaign he scored 7 goals in 11 games. I think it's too soon to be saying that his goals have dried up.

For me Hoolahan really needs to start regularly for us and if Keane isn't the most suited striker to play ahead of him then I wouldn't be distraught if he was benched (although I happen to think the pair of them could work well together if the team approach was right). But I think not having Keane as an option is a big loss.

El Inho

bren2001 wrote: »

He is younger than Duff and Given. If they had not retired in the summer both would still offer us a lot. Given wasn't given the chance to come back. He is still our best keeper however. He is also younger than Dunne who has, arguably, the most to offer.

He is also the only player in the squad who consistently nicks goals. He has a ridiculous amount to offer coming off the bench.

He can also be a leader on the pitch. Teach players like McClean and Brady what kind of delivery he needs etc.

Robbie Keane will go down as one of the best strikers we have produced. I don't want to see him gone just yet.

this is more along the lines of what i would love to see....i dont want him off to the glue factory...just not starting.

roanoke

Pro. F wrote: »

From footballl-lineups.com I see 13 games since he went to LA. But that includes 2 friendlies and 3 games in the Euros where we were played off the park. The last qualification campaign he scored 7 goals in 11 games. I think it's too soon to be saying that his goals have dried up.

I checked again. It's 14 matches (as opposed to 15 or 13). He joined LA Galaxy on 15/8/11 (five days after the match I was counting as match 15). I thought he had joined was a couple of weeks before that particular game.

Still, 13 or 14 or 15. It's not great goalscoring whatever way you look at it.

[-0-]

I would love if we got a result here. I just can't see it though.

EdenHazard

[-0-] wrote: »

I would love if we got a result here. I just can't see it though.

What do you mean? Ireland are favorites no doubt and Austria would have done well to come away with any points.

jimjamcos

[-0-] wrote: »

I would love if we got a result here. I just can't see it though.

We'll get a result. Just maybe not the win. Just can't see where goal will come from.

simongurnick

jimjamcos wrote: »

We'll get a result. Just maybe not the win. Just can't see where goal will come from.

Bernie Slaven

WallyGUFC

An absolute must win. Draw is no good to us really, barring us shocking the Germans in Germany which is never going to happen. Hopefully Trap sees sense from the off and gives McCarthy and Hoolahan games. Would be interesting to see how Hoolahan fares starting a competitive game. Doyle will probably end up starting though!

briany

EdenHazard wrote: »

What do you mean? Ireland are favorites no doubt and Austria would have done well to come away with any points.

Ireland, under Trap, have an underwhelming home record. This can not be denied. It was adequate in the past because because Ireland did enough against the lower seeds while the wheels fell off the second seed, allowing Ireland to trot into a playoff place each time. We can't assume that's going to happen again and even if it does, it's not a nice thing to be relying on.

Ireland need to go and take this game by the scruff of the neck but when has that ever happened in q'fying v. a half decent side? Italy's the closest that Ireland came to beating and a nice game it was but still a draw. It was also at a time when a draw was still enough. On the other hand the time Slovakia came to town, there was a similar weight of expectation and hope of a proper result to now. We know how that turned out. It was a thoroughly disappointing performance, giving them far too much time and space, making them look quite a bit better than they actually were. This was something Armenia proved by actually attacking them and spanking them both home and away.

Bottom line is that if Ireland play in the backward and cowardly fashion they did v. Slovakia in Sep. '11, I wouldn't wish their appearance at the WC on any neutral.

simongurnick

Ireland need to go and take this game by the scruff of the neck but when has that ever happened in q'fying v. a half decent side? Italy's the closest that Ireland came to beating and a nice game it was but still a draw. It was also at a time when a draw was still enough. On the other hand the time Slovakia came to town, there was a similar weight of expectation and hope of a proper result to now. We know how that turned out. It was a thoroughly disappointing performance, giving them far too much time and space, making them look quite a bit better than they actually were. This was something Armenia proved by actually attacking them and spanking them both home and away.

Bottom line is that if Ireland play in the backward and cowardly fashion they did v. Slovakia in Sep. '11, I wouldn't wish their appearance at the WC on any neutral.[/QUOTE]

I think by playing a team with fullbacks like Coleman and Wilson who like to attack, we won't see many Slovakia-like performances in the near future.
As for taking the game by the scruff of the neck...you're 100% correct. Trap (in his broken English) actually said after the game that he want's to see McCarthy become more demanding and impose himself on the game..hopefully he has the confidence to do so on Tuesday because he can be the driving force for the team.

GavRedKing

Big chance to put some points between us and Austria and to keep up with Sweden also.

Encouraged by Friday nights display, I think we'll take 3 points, it's our home record that will out us in with a chance of finsihing runners up so these are the games we have to win.

newballsplease

Sammon likely to start is the rumour going around....

Sin City

newballsplease wrote: »

Sammon likely to start is the rumour going around....

I doubt it, I heard Trap is one bad result from getting the sack so Im sure he will go with a proven striker, like Long Walters or even Doyle

newballsplease

Sin City wrote: »

I doubt it, I heard Trap is one bad result from getting the sack so Im sure he will go with a proven striker, like Long Walters or even Doyle

Thats what i heard anyway.
Probably same team v sweden except Sammon in for Keane.

Sin City

CONOR SAMMON has emerged as Giovanni Trapattoni's front runner to deputise for Robbie Keane after the Irish captain was ruled out of the must-win World Cup showdown with Austria.Keane picked up a calf strain in Friday's hard-earned draw in Sweden with a scan yesterday revealing that the damage is enough to rule him out of tomorrow's crucial encounter with another play-off contender.

Kevin Doyle, who last week expressed unhappiness at being cut from the provisional panel via text message, has been called into the squad to provide cover after speaking to the Italian.

However, barring an overnight change of heart, he's likely to be on the bench at Lansdowne Road alongside Wes Hoolahan who replaced Keane for the final 15 minutes in Stockholm.

Speaking after training , Trapattoni appeared relatively relaxed about Keane's injury, suggesting the LA Galaxy star would recover. When the issue of a possible replacement cropped up, he gave positive mention to Sammon, who made his competitive debut from the bench on Friday, while also referencing Simon Cox who has stood in for Keane in the past.

"We would have to change, and put Sammon or Cox with (Shane) Long," said the Ireland boss, before then making a stronger statement with regard to the Derby newcomer. "Sammon is picked with Long, Sammon is to be with Long."

Jon Walters is another forward option, but he is troubled by a back problem that could prevent him from taking up the right wing berth which he filled in the first part of this double-header, with Robbie Brady on standby. Hoolahan impressed in his brief cameo, but Trapattoni has previously stated a preference for starting home matches with two natural strikers, partnering Sammon and Long in last month's friendly win over Poland before introducing Hoolahan in the second half.

Trapattoni confirmed that the returning Glenn Whelan will partner James McCarthy in central midfield with Paul Green dropping out. Ciaran Clark sat out training with a minor groin problem but he should return to training today, which has been moved to Lansdowne Road.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/sammon-set-to-fill-keane-void-29151387.html

Still doesnt mean Trap wont change his mind before kick off

SlickRic

Sin City wrote: »

I heard Trap is one bad result from getting the sack

i doubt it.

so Im sure he will go with a proven striker, like Long Walters or even Doyle

Long will start anyway.

Doyle wasn't in the original squad, so I doubt he's going to start, and Walters was one of our less impressive players on Friday. plus Trap seems to like him a bit wider, especially as he offers a lot defensively. he played on the right Friday, he will again Tuesday.

it's Sammon or Hoolahan vying for a spot IMO...

1. Trap prefers 442.
2. Trap clearly likes Sammon.

it'll be Sammon.

elefant

Don't know why people are being hard on Long (poor choice of words?!) about the Sweden game. I thought he did well- chased down the defenders, contested eveything, won a heap of free-kicks and should have had more. Snatched at his chance, but I thought he did well overall.

TaosHum

I can see Ireland struggling mightily to break Austria down. I'd actually liken them to Ireland with regards to what players they have to pick from. Same type of quality.

However, Ireland under Trap have never been as good at home as they have been away, especially performance wise and when the team is expected to have a go at the opposition. I can see it turning out to be something similar to what we saw against Slovakia. They will control most of the game and we will struggle to break them down.

I hope we can get the win, but I see this as a boring 0-0 draw.

Soups123

SlickRic wrote: »

i doubt it.



Long will start anyway.

Doyle wasn't in the original squad, so I doubt he's going to start, and Walters was one of our less impressive players on Friday. plus Trap seems to like him a bit wider, especially as he offers a lot defensively. he played on the right Friday, he will again Tuesday.

it's Sammon or Hoolahan vying for a spot IMO...

1. Trap prefers 442.
2. Trap clearly likes Sammon.

it'll be Sammon.

Trap has done this a few times before bringing in a player to the starting 11 over a player who was in the original squad. So I certainly wouldnt rule it out.

Sammon is way above his level here, really not confident if he starts

Dubh Geannain

Soups123 wrote: »

Trap has done this a few times before bringing in a player to the starting 11 over a player who was in the original squad. So I certainly wouldnt rule it out.

Sammon is way above his level here, really not confident if he starts

+1

SlickRic

just to make it clear, I don't want Sammon starting, and i'd prefer both Hoolahan and Doyle to play before him.

Sammon is patently out of his depth.

applehunter

Hoolahan is ready made to play the roll Keane was playing on Friday.

Would be another baffling call if Sammon is given the nod on all known form.

GavRedKing

Hoolahan when he came on was looking for the killer ball inbetween the FB's and CB's, if he started behind Long in a free role it would suit both and the way Wilson and coleman were willing to advance it would give Hoolahan even more options but that wont happen and Hoolahan might get another little cameo towards the end of this game.

Hoolahan should play ahead of Sammon and Doyle in a 4-5-1 but it just wont happen.

LuckyLloyd

Sammon should definitely play ahead of Doyle. He's been far less awful in the Championship this year.

applehunter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sammon should definitely play ahead of Doyle. He's been far less awful in the Championship this year.

You are a bundle of contradictions.

Should he play in front of Hoolahan?

klose

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sammon should definitely play ahead of Doyle. He's been far less awful in the Championship this year.

I agree but we all know a 451 with hoolahan behind long is our best bet. Starting sammon is mind boggling if it happens. Is cox in the squad? How is he doing this year?

SteelyDanJalapeno

Sammon is like a fish out of water

gosplan

Did we switch to an out and out 4-5-1 the other night when Hoolahan came on or did Walters go up top or what?

The only reason I can think not to go 4-5-1 is that we're not used to it.

In terms of player quality, it's the only thing that makes sense.

SlickRic

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sammon should definitely play ahead of Doyle. He's been far less awful in the Championship this year.

far less?

Doyle has 6 goals in 36 games.
Sammon has 7 goals in 37 games.

The_Kew_Tour

This will be first competive game I miss since 2006.

Hope we do the business. I am concerned with team selection that is about though. Love to see Hoolahan start this. He really made difference when he came on in Sweden.

I was talking to few lads on flight back from Sweden yesterday who were saying Hoolahan was close to dropping out of squad had he not seen any game time from these 2 games. He felt he deserved a chance.

Would show intent about getting 3 points in right manner if he was selected.

homerjay2005

i expect pretty much the same team as the last night, with Hoolahan in for Keane.

Banjaxed82

Even Hoolahan's positive attitude is worthy of his inclusion. From the moment he came on, he constantly screamed for the ball. Pointing where he wants it, making runs, making space. His lack of fear to be actually in possession of the ball surely can only be a good thing for players around him.

SlickRic

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i expect pretty much the same team as the last night, with Hoolahan in for Keane.

do you really think Trap will throw Hoolahan in, and do away with his trusted 442 formation?

i hope you're right, but i highly doubt it.

gosplan

SlickRic wrote: »

do you really think Trap will throw Hoolahan in, and do away with his trusted 442 formation?

i hope you're right, but i highly doubt it.

Probably right i reckon.

I imagine we'll see conservatism reign with the tried and trusted 4-4-2. Austria racked up pretty big scores against Kzakh and Faroes. Admittedly, there's not much to be gained in terms of information from those two matches but Trap will be more wary of conceding an early goal than scoring one.

The good thing about Austria is that they may be the group-changer that we needed. Until now, Trap has qualified by ensuring that we don't drop stupid points against minnows. It's not so much that Ireland have been the second best team, but that teams like Bulgaria messed it up and we didn't ... if you get what i mean.

The problem that we all saw with this is that when we get to the championships and all the teams are better than us, we're in big trouble.

The issue with this group was that Sweden are too good as second seeds and we no longer could rely on six points against Kzakh and the Faroes as being of any real use as they'd surely get the same results. Austria could be the team to change things if they take points of Sweden, although we still have to beat them twice.

GLaDOS

Would love to see Hoolahan start, be very surprised if he actually did. Unfortunately can see Sammon starting.

Kingp35

Sammon was absolutely awful against Poland, looked completely out of his depth.

I have no idea what Trap sees in him and it could cost him his job if he starts Sammon on Tomorrow.

SlickRic

Kingp35 wrote: »

Sammon was absolutely awful against Poland, looked completely out of his depth.

I have no idea what Trap sees in him and it could cost him his job if he starts Sammon on Tomorrow.

he runs around willingly after all the hoofs.

that's what he sees in him.