Ireland Vs Austria - K/O 7:45PM - Sky Sports 2 & RTÉ 2

wonderfullife

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

No point arguing with you as you obviously have your opinions which I literally couldn't agree with more strongly.

All I can do at the moment is count down the days when he goes, as can most people, I've said my piece now.

What you have said, in a nutshell is:

When i was 8 or 9 i got excited to watch Ireland. Coz they were good. And stuff.

Now they are not so good so i won't go to the game despite living over the road from the Aviva.

Oh, and Trap sucks, sack him. Maybe then i might support my country again.

That's what you've said.

You're an embarrassment to call yourself a fan of your country.

But carry on, i'll give you a shout in 10 years when we have some new players and a new coach and maybe play some attractive football and you can pop your head in to the Aviva to watch a game.

SirDelboy18

wonderfullife wrote: »

What you have said, in a nutshell is:

When i was 8 or 9 i got excited to watch Ireland. Coz they were good. And stuff.

Now they are not so good so i won't go to the game despite living over the road from the Aviva.

Oh, and Trap sucks, sack him. Maybe then i might support my country again.

That's what you've said.

You're an embarrassment to call yourself a fan of your country.

But carry on, i'll give you a shout in 10 years when we have some new players and a new coach and maybe play some attractive football and you can pop your head in to the Aviva to watch a game.

I feel you're being extremely disrespectful in this response, and unbelievably condescending. But fine, I'll bite.

I have been to a large amount of Ireland games. The last game I went to was in 2009. I paid money from my own pocket to support the team over the years. I made reference to those games in particular to show how the games made me feel. Not for you to try and make fun of me.

I support the team but I won't pay money to go and see them, and support the manager and the FAI. It's my choice which I don't have to justify to you. I'm sure lots of people feel the same way with the situation as it is currently.

We don't need new players. We have the players at our disposal to play good football and the manager hasn't picked them or hasn't allowed them to play the football that they can.

I don't feel that I am an embarrassment, not that I care for your opinion after this post. I know plenty who agree with me and I wouldn't care if they didn't. I won't pay money to the FAI as things stand.

Please don't give me a shout. I don't think I'd enjoy hearing from you.

Timmyctc

wonderfullife wrote: »

What you have said, in a nutshell is:

When i was 8 or 9 i got excited to watch Ireland. Coz they were good. And stuff.

Now they are not so good so i won't go to the game despite living over the road from the Aviva.

Oh, and Trap sucks, sack him. Maybe then i might support my country again.

That's what you've said.

You're an embarrassment to call yourself a fan of your country.

But carry on, i'll give you a shout in 10 years when we have some new players and a new coach and maybe play some attractive football and you can pop your head in to the Aviva to watch a game.

How's he an embarrassment? I'd say most fans have grown tired of Trap. He's a nothing manager nowadays. Hasn't been good since his time with Bayern. He doesn't watch our players play. He sticks with archaic tactics and refuses to change them. He persists with playing shíte players and "rewarding commitment" like regularly startin players like Paul Green despite being a free agent dropped by his Championship club and leaving genuine quality players from our Pool like Gibson out and feeling exiled. It's not a case of not wanting to watch Ireland because they are shíte. If every effort was made to play our best team/formation no one would have a problem going to see us lose 6-1 to Germany or Draw 2-2 with Austria if that was our max potential. But it's fúcking a million miles from it. All Trap is doing is stunting any potential growth Ireland as a team can make. Drawing with Sweden was a good result. But he should have seen they were there for the taking on Friday and made the team go for it. Today after going 2-1 up we just defended with about 25 mins remaining. Its a joke and the fact that a dinosaur like Trap has been put in place by the FAI is a farce and his 1.5m a year financed in no small part by fans "popping their head into the aviva" is a farce. OP is in no way an embarrassment.

wonderfullife

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

I feel you're being extremely disrespectful in this response, and unbelievably condescending. But fine, I'll bite.

I have been to a large amount of Ireland games. The last game I went to was in 2009. I paid money from my own pocket to support the team over the years. I made reference to those games in particular to show how the games made me feel. Not for you to try and make fun of me.

I support the team but I won't pay money to go and see them, and support the manager and the FAI. It's my choice which I don't have to justify to you. I'm sure lots of people feel the same way with the situation as it is currently.

We don't need new players. We have the players at our disposal to play good football and the manager hasn't picked them or hasn't allowed them to play the football that they can.

I don't feel that I am an embarrassment, not that I care for your opinion after this post. I know plenty who agree with me and I wouldn't care if they didn't. I won't pay money to the FAI as things stand.

Please don't give me a shout. I don't think I'd enjoy hearing from you.

If you're offended, apologies, but your sentiment is Trapattoni has "ruined" the team you "used to" go support. When fact is he got us to our first major tournament in a decade and we're still bang in there with a chance for Rio. If you don't like the style of football, that's fine, but whether you go to a game or not the man gets paid either way. Denis O' Brien is paying a large % of his salary anyway.

I was in your shoes once too. At the age you were when you got excited going to the games around the 2001 Holland match. The first Ireland game i went as a child was in the late 80's, then had the buzz of Italia 90, the disappointment not qualifying in 1992, the buzz of USA '94 then multiple disappointments. I've seen good, bad and ugly but i don't go to games because we play a certain brand of football, or who is the manager or who the eleven players are on the pitch - i go to support my country. If that's a jingoistic nonsense reason to attend matches so be it, but through the good, bad and ugly i try get to games.

So that's why it's hard to swallow when someone says they live over the road from the stadium but won't support the team because they don't play attractive football or you dislike the manager.

Anyway sure leave it there.

jamesbere

That last 25 mins was painful to watch, if you keep giving the ball away like that you are going to get punished. Fine look he didn't start hoolahan but not bringing him on instead of sammon was a mistake, we needed someone to hold on to the ball and pass it about.

And what was the deal with putting green on the right when he came on, made no sense. At least put him in midfield to help out whelan and macarthy.

starviewadams

Was irritating seeing Sammon (who tried his best in fairness) being obviously dead on his feet after 65 mins or so,with Doyle and Hoolahan on the bench, and Trap refusing to replace him.Just a very disheartening display from Ireland/Trap overall.Don't think I'll be arsed paying good money to see Ireland play again until Trap has been relieved of his duties tbh,as cúntish as that sounds.

Something has to give.

T-K-O

starviewadams wrote: »

Was irritating seeing Sammon (who tried his best in fairness) being obviously dead on his feet after 65 mins or so,with Doyle and Hoolahan on the bench, and Trap refusing to replace him.Just a very disheartening display from Ireland/Trap overall.Don't think I'll be arsed paying good money to see Ireland play again until Trap has been relieved of his duties tbh,as cúntish as that sounds.

Something has to give.

Agreed. I was very disappointed with that. Trap almost got it right this evening :mad:. Sammon off Green on would have been enough IMO.

While I am falling outta love with Trap I wish people would stop going on about his salary. The man was offered a wage and he took it. Nothing wrong with that.

O'Donahue drives me mad when interviewing Trap. There is no question the manager deserves criticism however there is right way of doing things.

wonderfullife

jamesbere wrote: »

That last 25 mins was painful to watch, if you keep giving the ball away like that you are going to get punished. Fine look he didn't start hoolahan but not bringing him on instead of sammon was a mistake, we needed someone to hold on to the ball and pass it about.

And what was the deal with putting green on the right when he came on, made no sense. At least put him in midfield to help out whelan and macarthy.

Yep, that's what baffles me. Green coming on should have been to play narrow alongside Whelan and McCarthy. Instead he pushed Walters up front. If you re-watch the game we didn't actually drop deep and invite pressure on. We made a worse mistake which was trying to maintain shape with knackered players.

Trap had 2 options - either put on Hoolahan & Green at 65 mins OR put any 2 players on, drop deep and park the bus. We did neither. They had oceans of time and space in the lines between the midfield and back 4.

We effectively played the last 30 mins with 10 men as Sammon was out on his feet, and Walters wasn't far behind him. They had legs of jelly near the end.

In spite all of that, we still should have closed it out. When you get a free kick on 91 minutes in the opposition half, you should be able to see out the clock. Get the ball at the corner flag, shield the ball, force a foul or corner etc.

Sadly it was a case of tired bodies and tired minds near the end, and the deflection on the strike was unfortunate.

jamesbere

wonderfullife wrote: »

Yep, that's what baffles me. Green coming on should have been to play narrow alongside Whelan and McCarthy. Instead he pushed Walters up front. If you re-watch the game we didn't actually drop deep and invite pressure on. We made a worse mistake which was trying to maintain shape with knackered players.

Trap had 2 options - either put on Hoolahan & Green at 65 mins OR put any 2 players on, drop deep and park the bus. We did neither. They had oceans of time and space in the lines between the midfield and back 4.

We effectively played the last 30 mins with 10 men as Sammon was out on his feet, and Walters wasn't far behind him. They had legs of jelly near the end.

In spite all of that, we still should have closed it out. When you get a free kick on 91 minutes in the opposition half, you should be able to see out the clock. Get the ball at the corner flag, shield the ball, force a foul or corner etc.

Sadly it was a case of tired bodies and tired minds near the end, and the deflection on the strike was unfortunate.

This is what bugs me under traps management, our home form. Away from home I can't complain, its a good record. But we have to be more decisive at home.

I mean tonight was a missed opportunity, 3 points tonight would of put us in a good position with the faroe's at home next.

Rekop dog

Hopefully calamity Clark never wears a green jersey again. He's league 2 standard.

T-K-O

Rekop dog wrote: »

Hopefully calamity Clark never wears a green jersey again. He's league 2 standard.

.. and who would you start with at CB?

LuckyLloyd

T-K-O wrote: »

.. and who would you start with at CB?

St. Ledger is a better player than Clark.

The 'I don't like the style of football so I can't support the team fully' line of argument is simply dreadful. Any supposed fan of the national team should be ashamed writing it.

T-K-O

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

St. Ledger is a better player than Clark.

The 'I don't like the style of football so I can't support the team fully' line of argument is simply dreadful. Any supposed fan of the national team should be ashamed writing it.

He's really not better than Clark.

What's that about, I didnt say that

Alpha Dog 1

Can't wait for trap to be finally hounded out of the job. He's clearly holding us back.
We are as good as anyone on our day. We have players playing at a high level in the premier league, players playing champions league week in week out.
We shouldn't be drawing with the likes of Austria.

We have the players to be playing like Brazil and Barcelona ffs.

TRAP OUT..

GavRedKing

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Can't wait for trap to be finally hounded out of the job. He's clearly holding us back.

How?

We are as good as anyone on our day.

We're clearly not

We have players playing at a high level in the premier league, players playing champions league week in week out.

Whos playing in the Champions League? Besides McGeady I'm struggling to think of anyone else.

We shouldn't be drawing with the likes of Austria.

We have the players to be playing like Brazil and Barcelona ffs.

LoLzers

TRAP OUT..

Replace him with who?



I really hope my sarcasm detector isnt working this early.....................

LuckyLloyd

Alpha Dog 1 wrote: »

Can't wait for trap to be finally hounded out of the job. He's clearly holding us back.
We are as good as anyone on our day. We have players playing at a high level in the premier league, players playing champions league week in week out.
We shouldn't be drawing with the likes of Austria.

We have the players to be playing like Brazil and Barcelona ffs.

TRAP OUT..

LuckyLloyd

GavRedKing wrote: »

I really hope my sarcasm detector isnt working this early.....................

Ah Gav, come on!

.jacksparrow.

Ugh why do these results always feel more soul destroying the morning after.

homerjay2005

sickening....20 seconds away from a great result.... we were comfortable for mosst of the game, but should have made subs quicker and better ones, as the team was dead on their feet. needed more fresh legs, especially as Austria had made theirs and had after all, had a much easier game on Friday.

gosplan

^

Hangover?

Anyway. I'm actually a fan of Trap but I think he got it wrong last night.

He's very comfortable with the idea that it's fine to play the last 25 mins without the ball cause we're one goal ahead.

This idea probably applies to teams he coached in the past but if Ireland invite skillfull teams on to them, we'll probably make a mistake.

I'm not saying Weso was the answer cause we might have conceded quicker and everyone's a fookin expert afterwards, aren't they.

But if we were tiring that much and literally unable to do anything but drop off for the last 20, then that was mis-management. People will say that there was only 15 seconds to go but we had looked vulnerable for some time.

I'm all for shutting up shop and closing out a game but that was not an example of how to do it.

iDave

Really am gutted by this. Moreso than Germany. Was in the South Stand singing Athenry near the end in good spirits looking like we did enough for the 3 points and then that happens. Unlike some I'm not gonna point the finger at Trap or any particular player though

LuckyLloyd

The mistake wasn't not bringing on Hoolahan - it was keeping Sammon on the pitch. He wasn't winning his headers the last 20 minutes, and the gameplan was dependent upon his ability to do just that. Whelan was another who tired the last 15 minutes.

End of the day though, tired legs or not - we had chances to kill time in their corner the last few that weren't taken and conceeding that much space and time just outside the box for the equaliser was criminal.

1965
1981
1988
1999
2005

Conceeding vital last gasp goals is an Irish footballing trait, not just a Trappatoni one unfortunately.

ThunbergsAreGo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The mistake wasn't not bringing on Hoolahan - it was keeping Sammon on the pitch. He wasn't winning his headers the last 20 minutes, and the gameplan was dependent upon his ability to do just that. Whelan was another who tired the last 15 minutes.

End of the day though, tired legs or not - we had chances to kill time in their corner the last few that weren't taken and conceeding that much space and time just outside the box for the equaliser was criminal.

1965
1981
1988
1999
2005

Conceeding vital last gasp goals is an Irish footballing trait, not just a Trappatoni one unfortunately.

Wed a break on with about two minutes to go a simple square ball and then out to McLean and Whelan (i think) just hoofed it. Was a poor choice but one bourne out of him being out on his feet, remembering he was injured on Friday.

A player such as Duff and their experience could have made a difference last night.

People saying "to a team such as Austria" are very disrespectful. They have better players than us on a man to man basis based on the teams last night, and will probably continue to benefit from German footballs resurgance over the next few years

SlickRic

eagle eye wrote: »

McCarthy didn't play well towards the end of the game, the Austrians ran rings around him but I don't hear anybody complaining that he was left on.

3 v 2 in there the whole game.

it was bound to tell, and we never changed the formation. Green came on, fine, but for our not-knackered striker who was MOTM?

McCarthy, while anonymous for the last 20 minutes, was not unlike everyone else. the team needed a hand from the manager. they never really got that help, and Trap allowed the pattern of the game continue until the end because he refused to change a system that was not fit for purpose at that stage of the game.

The Guardian

good few austrians on the team that arent austrian?

have we any case to make on these grounds?

noodler

Dempsey wrote: »

Sledge came on for Clark aswell but I'd agree that completely was Sammon was knackered and needed to be replaced. Green getting on wasnt an issue for me tbh, even Long getting taken off can be argued as not a bad thing but leaving a knackered lone CF was the real crime.

Forgot about Sledge. Taking off Long whilst leaving Sammon on was the killer alright.

Morzadec wrote: »

That end of match interview was something else. Never seen the likes of it on RTE and was surprised with some of the suggestions and questions.

Thought it was highly reactive and results-based thinking.

The question about him resigning was preposterous.

I think Trappatoni was right to be indignant and to remind us that we are no world beaters.

Lets be honest with ourselves - on paper our squad would struggle to stay in the Premiership/get out of the Championship. That is the level we are talking about. A yoyoing Premier League/Championship side at best imo.

All in all I thought we played alright tonight.

I hope Long starts every game from here on in. He was fantastic, looked a cut above and you could tell he was our only player starting regularly in a top 10 Premier League side.

Some of the questions were tough but it was Austria - not a world class team.

I don't know why this is so controversial. Some people want to argue Austria have better man-for-man players, but we are 40 places higher in the rankings, we qualified for the last Euros, we got to the play-offs in 2009 et etc.

I have no problem recognizing facts regarding our international standing but we seem to using the "we're not world beaters" to justify collapses against weaker and weaker teams.

This is arguably the worst result under Trap's reign. Okay it wasn't heavy like the German and Spanish games but it was the first time we have dropped points to a seed lower than us (a fourth seed. disregarding the Montenegro anomaly for a moment).

More to the point, I thought we looked the better team from the moment Austria scored the opener to the last 20 minutes. It was the mentality of the players (for which the manager must take severe responsibility) coupled with some stupid and stubborn subsitutions (or lack thereof).

dsmythy wrote: »

The luck from the last campaign was never going to continue. Getting the other side of it now.

Definitely there is a feeling of this.

ionadnapokot

why do i allow myself to get upset? WHY?? I should have seen this coming.Again. it was the manner of the draw that disgusts me. to my back bone.
Last night..Read Bulgaria game in 2009 (March 28). Nearly 4 years to the day game plan has not changed one iota.

V Bulg
Shay Given; Paul McShane, John O’Shea, Richard Dunne, Kevin Kilbane; Aiden McGeady, Glenn Whelan, Keith Andrews, Stephen Hunt; Robbie Keane, Kevin Doyle.

Subs: Andy Keogh for McGeady 90??; Dean Kiely, Damien Delaney, Stephen Kelly, Noel Hunt, Darron Gibson, Caleb Folan.

V Aust
David Forde; Seamus Coleman, John O'Shea, Ciaran Clark, Marc Wilson; Jonathon Walters, Glenn Whelan, James McCarthy, James McClean: Conor Sammon, Shane Long.

Subs: S St Ledger for Clark (73); P Green for Long (83)??; Keiren Westwood, Darren O'Dea, Wes Hoolahan, Kevin Doyle, Stephen Kelly, Andy Keogh, Robbie Brady, Simon Cox, Jeff Hendrick, Darren Randolph

One step forward two steps back.
We are a goal up. And then completely surrender possesion.completely??
But this time its worse. Hoolahan & Doyle on the Bench. And left there?
Green on for our "out ball" player.& a knackered Sammon left on?

Many infuriating performances over the last 4 years, btw i would rank the russia game in moscow right up there (Grace of God comes to mind. & Russian roulette. & of course Richard Dunne), but that second half was the straw that broke that banjaxed camels back! It was stupidity.
Rant over

FutureGuy

Lads do ye honestly think for a second that Trapattoni, a manager with decades of experience, hadn't a good reason for taking off Long instead of Sammon? Come off it. We're ye there at the Aviva watching it with a newfound ability to disseminate all the little things that would go through a managers mind after watching thousands of games? If you are at home, you are privy to what you see on camera alone.

Yes, Trap made some mistakes last night. I felt Walters should have been kept where he was and have Green slip into midfield to cover the back four. there was no need to have 2 strikers the way the game was at that stage, both interms of the scoreline and the Austrian gameplan. Also, it was rediculous to me that no sub was ready to come on after 90 mins to waste some time. That was criminal in this day and age.

Bringing on Paul Green was not a mistake. I said it last night, bringing on Houlihan would have been a dreadful decision. He is an attacking midfielder who won't provide the same cover that a player like Green will. Call Green what you want, but he was the correct substitution to make last night, given the way the game was balanced. Did people forget that when we were 0-0 vs Sweden, we brought on Houlihan to get a goal? Has that been forgotton already? 0-0 or in a losing position, bring on Houlihan. Last night, no. Correct decision in my humble opinion.

Ciaran Clark should be savaged for that mistake yesterday. He has a track record of doing it in the PL and was only caught out recently against City. Clear the ball. No goal. Simple. Instead, he tried to be fancy, like many of the other Irish players were doing minutes earlier.

Let's not forget that the players seemed to forget how to pass and control the ball for large periods. With minutes to go, the players should have focused on maintaining possession.

And who closed down Ayala for the goal?

Lads, we have a poor squad with a few good young players. There is only so much we can do. I said at the start of this campaign that if we are in a position at the end where Coleman, McCarthy, McClean, Long and a decent replacement for Given were starting every game, it would be a good campaign regardless of the results because we would be well set for Euro qualification, regardless of the manager in charge. We are not going to get alot of success in a group with Germany, Sweden and Austria in there.

Forde looks solid and the rest of the mentioned players had really good games. We have played much better in the last 2 games and McCarthy seems to have done enough to be in the starting XI for the rest of the campaign (ban aside).

TL;DR, Trad was to blame for some things but the players are also accountable for some even worse errors.

SantryRed

FutureGuy wrote: »

Lads do ye honestly think for a second that Trapattoni, a manager with decades of experience, hadn't a good reason for taking off Long instead of Sammon? Come off it. We're ye there at the Aviva watching it with a newfound ability to disseminate all the little things that would go through a managers mind after watching thousands of games? If you are at home, you are privy to what you see on camera alone.

He had no good reason too. It was a stupid decision. Sammon should have been taken off and he wasn't. Trappatoni didn't give a good reason. Long was the thorn in the Austrians defense all night and taking him off made no sense.

Bringing on Paul Green was not a mistake. I said it last night, bringing on Houlihan would have been a dreadful decision. He is an attacking midfielder who won't provide the same cover that a player like Green will. Call Green what you want, but he was the correct substitution to make last night, given the way the game was balanced. Did people forget that when we were 0-0 vs Sweden, we brought on Houlihan to get a goal? Has that been forgotton already? 0-0 or in a losing position, bring on Houlihan. Last night, no. Correct decision in my humble opinion.

You see, there are several things wrong with it.

1. Hoolahan should have been on from 65 minutes onwards. We were clearly starting to fall deep and we could not retain the ball. We needed that extra man in there who would retain it and give us some breathing space and a foothold in the game.

2. If a subsitution was going to be made in the 85th minute, then Green was the right one, because we had no hope in keeping the ball now as the players were dead on their feet. However, and this is a massive point, it was absolutely insane to take Long off, and then put Green right mid and Walters upfront, it was a stupid move and I don't know what he was thinking. I wouldn't have had as much a problem with Long coming off if at least we had properly gone 3 in the middle, but we hadn't, and that's how Alaba got so much space in the box.

Ciaran Clark should be savaged for that mistake yesterday. He has a track record of doing it in the PL and was only caught out recently against City. Clear the ball. No goal. Simple. Instead, he tried to be fancy, like many of the other Irish players were doing minutes earlier.

Yeah it was a bad mistake but tbh, I don't think we would have scored twice without the impetus that conceding that goal gave us. He'll learn from it and was solid after it and in Sweden too. I think a lot of people watched him make the same mistake against City (when he was actually fouled), and are saying it happens too often now.

Let's not forget that the players seemed to forget how to pass and control the ball for large periods. With minutes to go, the players should have focused on maintaining possession.

That was/is on Trappatoni. When you are playing 4-4-2, against 4-5-1, and defensively as we were in the 2nd half, the fitness is going to tell. The players were deep and tired and that's why they couldn't retain possession. An extra midfielder in there from 65 minutes onwards would have seen us keep the ball more.

And who closed down Ayala for the goal?

That's what happens when you leave it at 4-4-2 with 3 minutes to go. The team will drop deep because they can't keep possession and are mentally tired. I still maintain we probably would have scored again if Wes had come on earlier. Long was giving the two centre backs so much hassle by himself, we could have held the ball much higher up the pitch.

TL;DR, Trad was to blame for some things but the players are also accountable for some even worse errors.

That game is completely on Trappatoni. Aside from Clark's error, we were 2-1 up at half time and we were beginning to really dominate. The 2nd half was too negative and his inability to change things is what was our downfall. There is no point in picking up away points in groups if we are going to do that at home.

LuckyLloyd

SantryRed wrote: »

That game is completely on Trappatoni. Aside from Clark's error, we were 2-1 up at half time and we were beginning to really dominate. The 2nd half was too negative and his inability to change things is what was our downfall. There is no point in picking up away points in groups if we are going to do that at home.

Such utter, utter bollocks and you know it.

applehunter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Such utter, utter bollocks and you know it.

He's paid the big bucks to make key decisions.

He got it wrong last night and deserves to be criticized for that.

Essien

FutureGuy wrote: »

Lads, we have a poor squad with a few good young players. There is only so much we can do.

And beating Austria last night is well within the realm of things we can do. I don't think we've a great squad, I doubt many do, but we proved last night that we are at least capable of beating who we need to in order to get second, you don't need to be Spain or Germany to do that, we're not exactly expecting miracles.

We played very well in Sweden and on another night we could easily have won, the forwards were poor imo but we were the better side. We played well last night in the first half but were obviously instructed not to attempt to kill the game off, despite being a goal up and having a clear psychological edge. This is the managers fault.

For the sake of argument and due to my incredible generosity, lets say Trap was only marginally at fault last night and that we were very unlucky to lose to a wonderful goal with 15 seconds to go. Well the reality is that's not even the point, the point is it's been coming for so long and the vast vast vast majority of us could see that, and like I've said already, the only difference is Traps considerable well of good fortune didn't come to the rescue last night.

gnfnrhead

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Such utter, utter bollocks and you know it.

But had it finished 2-1 you no doubt would be here telling us how amazing he is and how it was 100% down to him.

noodler

Trap has to take the blame for the last twenty minutes.

Players were tired and the game was drifting away from us but the manager left us one sub short and took off our best player despite the fact Sammon, who was average at best, looked absolutely off his feet tired.

I really do not think it is bollox at all to blame Trap for the last 20 minutes.

fullstop

Rekop dog wrote: »

Hopefully calamity Clark never wears a green jersey again. He's league 2 standard.

Ah your customary dig at Clark. Like a broken record at this stage. You also said before the Sweden game that McClean shouldn't be anywhere near the team, still believe that?

FutureGuy wrote: »

And who closed down Ayala for the goal?

The Argentine lad?

SlickRic

as impressive as our unbeaten record away from home is under Trap, and there's no denying that it is, it has to be balanced out by this worrying stat...

Ireland's best home win under Trap remains a 2-1 win over 10-man Armenia who have 3 points from 12 in their World Cup group.

we are 40th in the rankings, and have been higher under Trap, so that stat is particularly horrid IMO.

secman

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Such utter, utter bollocks and you know it.

So you seriously think Trapp is the man for the job ? Despite all the problems that come with him............ can't be bothered to list them all again.
The best thing that happened when Trapp was initially appointed was getting us tight and being hard to beat. That has truly flown in the last year, we have leaked a serious amount of goals. He has taken on board some of the points that were levelled at him by both FAI ( re treatment of players) and fans and media ( selection issues), he is now playing players like Coleman, McCarthy, McClean and Long, all of whom were badly treated over the last few years. Whilst his tactics are from an 80's era and the game has moved on, he did steady the ship, but have to say his time is up in the game. All the stats used in his favour are older than the majority of our players. He is on serious wad and has to take both plaudits when deserved and flack when its deserved, and based on last night it is well deserved .

Secman

GavRedKing

I thought he left on Sammon to challenge and try hold up anything that was lumped at him, it didnt work for the last 15-20 mins though and to also defend any set pieces they had, which also didnt happen to often in the last few minutes.

What annoyed me more then anything was pushing up Walters to partner Sammon when Green came on, it was crying our for a 4-5-1 to make the space in the midfield as compact as possible, pushing Walters up top served little as neither CF at that stage had it in them to chase and win every ball.

Also the free kick we got in injury time in the corner, wtf happened with that? It was played into Walters feet who was a good 10-15 yards away, why didnt Green(iirc) wait until Walters came as close as possible and between them try keep it in the corner, all we did was give the ball away cheaply allowing Austria out and they scored not long after it.

The inexperience of the players and their game management was lacking last night and it came back to bite us in dramatic fashion, while I wouldnt lump the blame on Trap there was one or two things he could have altered quicker and we could easily have won the 3 points but its a collective effort and the players arent entirely blameless.

FutureGuy

GavRedKing wrote: »

I thought he left on Sammon to challenge and try hold up anything that was lumped at him, it didnt work for the last 15-20 mins though and to also defend any set pieces they had, which also didnt happen to often in the last few minutes.

What annoyed me more then anything was pushing up Walters to partner Sammon when Green came on, it was crying our for a 4-5-1 to make the space in the midfield as compact as possible, pushing Walters up top served little as neither CF at that stage had it in them to chase and win every ball.

Also the free kick we got in injury time in the corner, wtf happened with that? It was played into Walters feet who was a good 10-15 yards away, why didnt Green(iirc) wait until Walters came as close as possible and between them try keep it in the corner, all we did was give the ball away cheaply allowing Austria out and they scored not long after it.

The inexperience of the players and their game management was lacking last night and it came back to bite us in dramatic fashion, while I wouldnt lump the blame on Trap there was one or two things he could have altered quicker and we could easily have won the 3 points but its a collective effort and the players arent entirely blameless.

Well said.

LuckyLloyd

'Trapp is completely to blame'

He's to blame for the schoolboy error for the first? That Long's backheel wasn't a couple of inches to the left? That their keeper made an incredible save at 2 - 1? That the defenders didn't CLOSE THE ****ING GUY ON THE EDGE OF OUR BOX?

A manager is rarely if ever 'completely to blame' just as he is rarely if ever the sole architect of victory. I would have done things slightly differently the last 20 minutes - but that doesn't make him worthy of being completely blamed.

I mean, for **** sake, we were seconds away from the result after creating far more clear cut openings over the course of the game. Just don't know how some of ye keep a straight face. Up there with the 'oh well, the Stade de France performance was all to do with the players'.

LuckyLloyd

secman wrote: »

So you seriously think Trapp is the man for the job ? Despite all the problems that come with him............ can't be bothered to list them all again.
The best thing that happened when Trapp was initially appointed was getting us tight and being hard to beat. That has truly flown in the last year, we have leaked a serious amount of goals. He has taken on board some of the points that were levelled at him by both FAI ( re treatment of players) and fans and media ( selection issues), he is now playing players like Coleman, McCarthy, McClean and Long, all of whom were badly treated over the last few years. Whilst his tactics are from an 80's era and the game has moved on, he did steady the ship, but have to say his time is up in the game. All the stats used in his favour are older than the majority of our players. He is on serious wad and has to take both plaudits when deserved and flack when its deserved, and based on last night it is well deserved .

Secman

15 competitive away games unbeaten is an extremely current stat. Qualifying for a major championship as a fourth seed is an extremely current stat.

Renn

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

creating far more clear cut openings over the course of the game.

Hyperbole much?

The_Kew_Tour

I work with Scottish fan. Themselves, San Marino and Andorra are only teams who mathematically can not qualify for World Cup.

It could be worse but still does not make my morning any better.

We blew it last night. It was the Managers job to make sure the players were confident and able to prepare for last 10 minutes. Trap failed to do that.

LuckyLloyd

Renn wrote: »

Hyperbole much?

Long hitting the post
McClean's free kick
Wonderful save from the corner
Walters dragging a header from a corner just wide

plus the goals = 6

Apart from their two goals they genuinely didn't go close. They had possession, they had pressure but a clear cut opening they did not have. Eh, maybe the fullback on the back post which dragged wide. 6 - 3, so twice as much as they had.

LuckyLloyd

Essentially, since summer 2011 (and much earlier for some people) Trapp has had to win every game we play to avoid criticism. Anything short of a win is his sole fault; and any win / good result is luck on his part or down to the players doing their own thing, etc. How can people not see that such a standard is ridiculous?

If ye get your way and bring in a Premiership also ran like McDermott (or whoever the flavour of the month will be in November) what standard will they be held to? Or will it be all okay so long as they always pick the 11 current most popular players; play 4 - 5 - 1 (or whatever the most popular formation in football is at that time); and get the players to knock it about first and foremost? Cause you got some of that under Staunton. Didn't think we'd be so desperate for more already but there you go.

eagle eye

gnfnrhead wrote: »

But had it finished 2-1 you no doubt would be here telling us how amazing he is and how it was 100% down to him.

He deserved some acknowledgement for the way the team played the other night but wan't getting it from the majority here. And with that being the way people went on then you cannot lay the blame for a draw last night on him.

Looking at it with a clear head now it was heartbreaking and it took a deflection to give them the draw in injury time. We were so unfortunate last night.

Trap could have made a substitution late on I feel but its not like it was some monstrously bad decision not to. The players started sitting deeper and deeper and for me that is the reason he told Green to sit further up the field hoping that he would break up play get the rest of our players to push up a bit.

I've seen this where players start to sit deeper so often in football over the last four/five years. When you are at games you hear managers roaring at the players to push out and they don't often listen. In league football they probably are all on win bonuses, not sure what the situation is with the Irish team, but they end up wanting to hold onto what they have.

ionadnapokot

He is a highly respected professional operating in a very public domain.
Criticism and praise is part of the job and Trap is well accustomed to it.
Allot of Irish football supporters are not satisfied with the way the national team is performing and we are not going to sit idly by and just let it continue without voicing our opinion.
Its water of a ducks back to Trap anyway.
While my voice might not be heard, i refuse to pay allot of my money to the FAI (many, many reasons), to attend Internationals when this Manager (subsidising his wage) is in charge. It is the only effective weapon the supporters have. I know allot of supporters will disagree with my stance but I will just continue to support & spend my hard earned few bob supporting the league…And that is another argument for another day!

Renn

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Long hitting the post
McClean's free kick
Wonderful save from the corner
Walters dragging a header from a corner just wide

plus the goals = 6

Apart from their two goals they genuinely didn't go close. They had possession, they had pressure but a clear cut opening they did not have. Eh, maybe the fullback on the back post which dragged wide. 6 - 3, so twice as much as they had.

And they had a free kick that went extremely close in the first 5 mins. And a couple of good chances in the second half with all that pressure. Definitely wasn't that much in it.

Essien

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Essentially, since summer 2011 (and much earlier for some people) Trapp has had to win every game we play to avoid criticism.

Such utter, utter bollocks and you know it - As you would say yourself.

LuckyLloyd

Renn wrote: »

And they had a free kick that went extremely close in the first 5 mins. And a couple of good chances in the second half with all that pressure. Definitely wasn't that much in it.

That's the thing, they didn't really create a clear cut opening. We defended really well.