Ireland Vs Austria - K/O 7:45PM - Sky Sports 2 & RTÉ 2

LuckyLloyd

flas wrote: »

Just wondering do you thinkwales or scotland are well ahead of us in terms of the squad they have? Because they both have players who were playing champions league football this year and I think we would beat both of them handy...

I think we'd beat them too, but not because of why you think we would. We don't have a much superior squad to Scotland however we have a far superior coach.

EdenHazard

Ok, 2 seasons ago we could of had 20 players in our squad playing in Europe, it wouldn't be a measure of how elite we are. Scotland and Wales have players in CL, we are better than them no doubt about it.

LuckyLloyd

EdenHazard wrote: »

Ok, 2 seasons ago we could of had 20 players in our squad playing in Europe, it wouldn't be a measure of how elite we are. Scotland and Wales have players in CL, we are better than them no doubt about it.

We didn't have 20 players in Europe at that time though, did we.

It's not a perfect measure of quality but make no mistake about it: our players play where they do for a reason.

EdenHazard

Shamrock Rovers based on their squad. Its a rough guess just based on their squad, they had a few foreigners in the team admittedly (Twigg, the keeper) Also technically we had a player in last 16 of Champions League, Anthony Stokes. At the end of the day Trap has us competiting at our level. Now that's fine but to argue has has us competing above that is just wrong. He's done well but the team would be better of without him now. We will qualify for 2016 anyway(24 teams) and based on past qualifications we would qualify everytime with that many teams so say ciao to trap now imo

LuckyLloyd

Rekop dog wrote: »

Worth noting that the Austria lineup last night had 2 lads who were/are competing in the Champions League this season, one of which is still in the competition and the other was knocked out in the last 16, another 5 lads who were in the Europa with various teams, and one who should have been in the Europa but Besiktas have a Euro financial ban.

How many of our lads last night are playing at European level or even close, especially at Champions league level? Coleman would be up to it imo but the list is pretty short compared to what it was a few years back. Keep on saying it but it'll take till after the managers departure until people really realise the weakness of this squad and how we've been punching above our weight competing in these groups.

There will be no apology or reassessment when it happens though, no sir. Those that berated Kerr never recanted. You just can't embarrass or reason with these people.

LuckyLloyd

EdenHazard wrote: »

Shamrock Rovers based on their squad. Its a rough guess just based on their squad, they had a few foreigners in the team admittedly (Twigg, the keeper) Also technically we had a player in last 16 of Champions League, Anthony Stokes.

The Shamrock Rovers squad aren't a realistic part of our playing pool. But congrats on dredging out such an inane technicality.

Rekop dog

Corholio wrote: »

Comparing Champions League isn't always a fair comparison, because there's a lot of average countries who have teams qualify for the Champions League, just playing in the Champions League isn't necessarily a sign of elite.

Which is why I expanded my point to say how far they've reached to prove the standard. Alaba is a regular in one of the best teams in Europe, Fuchs is a starter for a side who've also been consistent top level European side last few years. Dragovic is an excellent defender in an impressive Basel team this season. An impartial judge looking at both squads with a decent knowledge of the European game is only going to come to one conclusion over whose the stronger.

SantryRed

We win = Well done Trap and players

We lose = Our players are weak


No middle ground whatsoever in some people's reasoning.

EdenHazard

Rekop dog wrote: »

Which is why I expanded my point to say how far they've reached to prove the standard. Alaba is a regular in one of the best teams in Europe, Fuchs is a starter for a side who've also been consistent top level European side last few years. Dragovic is an excellent defender in an impressive Basel team this season. An impartial judge looking at both squads with a decent knowledge of the European game is only going to come to one conclusion over whose the stronger.

If Dragovic moved to England, do you think it would be with one of the big teams? Or would he move to Newcastle, Everton etc? Look at someone like Van Wolfswinkle moving to Norwich.

Rekop dog

EdenHazard wrote: »

If Dragovic moved to England, do you think it would be with one of the big teams? Or would he move to Newcastle, Everton etc? Look at someone like Van Wolfswinkle moving to Norwich.

Considering the standard of defending in the premier league this season he'd be a huge asset for any top team.

Just as an aside, your posts are retarded.

EdenHazard

I brought Van Wolfswinkle up because players move from higher ranked teams in other European countries and end up playing for lower EPL teams for who our players play with. Its a rebuttal to the 'we don't have the players in Europa league' argument. Our players refuse to move beyond Dover, or are not wanted mainly down to money reasons(they'd never earn what they do outside of England) To prove my point, Roy Carroll plays for Olympiakos, a top team in a relatively weak country. We could have players playing for big teams in smaller countries if they played abroad. Liam Lawrence is with PAOK(a team who are third in greece) and he's not even a squad player for us.

Blatter

So Rekop dog and Lloyd, looking at just last night and not results overall.

Did you find anything wrong with Trap's performance as manager last night?

Do you not think bringing on Green and pushing Walters up front in a 4-4-2 when we were getting overrun in midfield was not a basic error that made no sense on a footballing level?

Corholio

Rekop dog wrote: »

Which is why I expanded my point to say how far they've reached to prove the standard. Alaba is a regular in one of the best teams in Europe, Fuchs is a starter for a side who've also been consistent top level European side last few years. Dragovic is an excellent defender in an impressive Basel team this season. An impartial judge looking at both squads with a decent knowledge of the European game is only going to come to one conclusion over whose the stronger.

I didn't say they weren't, which is why I said you have to take the game on how it panned out. Just saying a team with better players beat us does no justice without looking at the game. Trap made huge errors with his subs and the defensive mindset that he drills into players was there for all to see last night, and we paid the price for it. It just seems you can't criticise Trap without consistently being berated with the 'punching above our weight' line constantly being rolled out, taking no account of the actual individual games that have been played.

wonderfullife

SantryRed wrote: »

We win = Well done Trap and players

We lose = Our players are weak


No middle ground whatsoever in some people's reasoning.

Including yours and others where it is:

We Win: Players did it, in spite of the coach

We Lose: Coach to blame, coulda had X, Y, Z on pitch

EdenHazard

On paper, the match should have been a draw but where Trap is shown up is how the match played out. We were dominating them and could have easily gone on and scored a couple more. That's the facts, I admit arguing over what players are European quality is fruitless. However on the match alone last night, for a large spell Ireland looked better than this team of 5 Europa League and Champions League players. Trap's poor decisions cost us the 3 points in the end. That's it, it can't be argued.

wonderfullife

EdenHazard wrote: »

On paper, the match should have been a draw but where Trap is shown up is how the match played out. We were dominating them and could have easily gone on and scored a couple more. That's the facts, I admit arguing over what players are European quality is fruitless. However on the match alone last night, for a large spell Ireland looked better than this team of 5 Europa League and Champions League players. Trap's poor decisions cost us the 3 points in the end. That's it, it can't be argued.

Can't be argued?? Not sure what match you watched but Austria were the better team for the first 20 minutes and the entire 2nd half.

fullstop

The_B_Man wrote: »

Lads, tried reading this thread but couldn't get through most of it.

There was a point made about Trap taking off Long. I kinda agreed with this move. It was precautionary. Long was being his usual self and letting his temper dictate his game. He got a tough challenge, then went for ur man after and got booked. He was only one more tough challenge away from being sent off.

That's why I think Trap took him off.

So why did Trap say in his interview after the game that Long was tired? Long isn't that stupid that he would have got himself sent off. Has he ever been sent off, I'm not sure?

Rekop dog wrote: »

Just as an aside, your posts are retarded.

Charming :rolleyes:

KingdomYid

Was at the game last night. It was clear from about 50 minutes on which way the game was going to go, I even said it to my brother beside that it was only a matter of time before Austria score and as expected it happened. Surely any football manager should know that if you don't try and keep the ball and continuously give it back to the opposition then it is more difficult to protect a lead. I am by no means anti Trap but why anyone won't just admit his tactics and subs last night were all wrong is beyond me.

Essien

I don't understand the point in saying everything is ok because we shouldn't expect to compete with their apparently far superior squad. After an hour or so we had them well and truly on the ropes, **** how good a squad they supposedly have, it was well within our reach and Trap just needed to make the right moves to capitalise on that, or at least just stay in front. He didn't, he went for his tired old tactics and bizzare subs and his luck just didn't hold up for a change.

We're seriously just going round in circles here, seems some posters are as stubborn as the man himself.

eagle eye

Blatter wrote: »

So Rekop dog and Lloyd, looking at just last night and not results overall.

Did you find anything wrong with Trap's performance as manager last night?

Do you not think bringing on Green and pushing Walters up front in a 4-4-2 when we were getting overrun in midfield was not a basic error that made no sense on a footballing level?

I gave an opinion on why Green was put there but nobody wanted to discuss it.

Imo he was put there to try and win ball back higher up the pitch and try to get the players to step up a little and not sit back as they were doing towards the end.

LuckyLloyd

Blatter wrote: »

So Rekop dog and Lloyd, looking at just last night and not results overall.

Did you find anything wrong with Trap's performance as manager last night?

Do you not think bringing on Green and pushing Walters up front in a 4-4-2 when we were getting overrun in midfield was not a basic error that made no sense on a footballing level?

See, that's so annoying. I said this morning that Sammon was left on too long and that I would have personally done things differently the last 20. I just don't think that equates to Trapp being responsible for the loss or not being a good coach.

fullstop

eagle eye wrote: »

I gave an opinion on why Green was put there but nobody wanted to discuss it.

Imo he was put there to try and win ball back higher up the pitch and try to get the players to step up a little and not sit back as they were doing towards the end.

Why stick him right wing so? We were getting overrun through the middle.

The_Kew_Tour

eagle eye wrote: »

I gave an opinion on why Green was put there but nobody wanted to discuss it.

Imo he was put there to try and win ball back higher up the pitch and try to get the players to step up a little and not sit back as they were doing towards the end.

I think putting on Green was not the problem. The problem was pushing Walters into the CF role when he was needed in Midfield.

Al Capwned

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I think putting on Green was not the problem. The problem was pushing Walters into the CF role when he was needed in Midfield.

Exactly this.....

Lennonist

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I think putting on Green was not the problem. The problem was pushing Walters into the CF role when he was needed in Midfield.

He could have put Doyle on to run the channels and hold the ball up. He left Sammon on to the very end when it was obvious he was out on his feet after 60 minutes. He had plenty of good options open to him, but couldn't see the right ones.

The problem is Trap. He was a great manager in his day but has lost any sharpness of thinking that he may have had - especially since the Euro's after which he should have retired or been retired.

The sad thing about it all, is that this group of Irish players will likely miss the opportunity of getting a shot at the play-offs - which they were well capable of achieving - and it is due largely to the fact that they are still being managed by a former great manager, but who is no longer fit for purpose.

Liam Brady will argue 'til the cows come home about this because he is loyal to Trap. There's no-one in the press or in the punditry game following the Brady - loyal to Trap - line on this as far as I can see. Anybody else saying the same defensive Brady-line stuff on this website - or anywhere else online - are just being argumentative for the sake of it.

Everyone knows what should be done, even the FAI know what should be done but they can't afford to do it, because they gave Trap a new contract before the Euros last summer. The players and the supporters are the ones who will suffer for this folly.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

'Trapp is completely to blame'

He's to blame for the schoolboy error for the first? That Long's backheel wasn't a couple of inches to the left? That their keeper made an incredible save at 2 - 1? That the defenders didn't CLOSE THE ****ING GUY ON THE EDGE OF OUR BOX?

A manager is rarely if ever 'completely to blame' just as he is rarely if ever the sole architect of victory. I would have done things slightly differently the last 20 minutes - but that doesn't make him worthy of being completely blamed.

I mean, for **** sake, we were seconds away from the result after creating far more clear cut openings over the course of the game. Just don't know how some of ye keep a straight face. Up there with the 'oh well, the Stade de France performance was all to do with the players'.

There is a clear pattern in the games under Trap, whether we are playing a weak team like Kazakhstan or a team roughly equivalent to ourselves like Austria. The team struggles to pass the ball properly, defends too deep and presses the opposition in a disorganised manner.

The performances like Stockholm and Paris and some of the earlier performances from the WCQ campaign are unusual exceptions to the general pattern of our play.

It doesn't matter that we were seconds away from a good result last night, it was obvious that we were in disarray and were making it much more difficult for ourselves than we should have. It doesn't matter that Austria hadn't made many clear cut chances, they were still getting closer and closer and we were doing nothing to stop that happening.

I cannot believe that you are unable to see the problems in the Ireland performances under Trap. Last night's game, the game against Kazakhstan, the home game against Armenia last campaign, the home and away games against Russia, the home game against Slovakia, the home leg against France before that, and more. The signs that our team isn't organised properly and are following an ineffective plan are always there. Sometimes the results go for us and sometimes they don't, but the issues on the pitch are blindingly obvious. Seriously, what the fúck are you seeing when you watch Ireland play?

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The mistake wasn't not bringing on Hoolahan - it was keeping Sammon on the pitch. He wasn't winning his headers the last 20 minutes, and the gameplan was dependent upon his ability to do just that. Whelan was another who tired the last 15 minutes.

End of the day though, tired legs or not - we had chances to kill time in their corner the last few that weren't taken and conceeding that much space and time just outside the box for the equaliser was criminal.

This team giving up space on the edge of the box and relying on last ditch tackles and blocks is hardly an unusual situation. You call it criminal yet it has been a hallmark of Trap's time in charge. A good manager would have done something about that by now. What's your excuse for Trap's inability to fix this basic problem?

wonderfullife

Pro. F wrote: »

There is a clear pattern in the games under Trap, whether we are playing a weak team like Kazakhstan or a team roughly equivalent to ourselves like Austria. The team struggles to pass the ball properly, defends too deep and presses the opposition in a disorganised manner.

The performances like Stockholm and Paris and some of the earlier performances from the WCQ campaign are unusual exceptions to the general pattern of our play.

It doesn't matter that we were seconds away from a good result last night, it was obvious that we were in disarray and were making it much more difficult for ourselves than we should have. It doesn't matter that Austria hadn't made many clear cut chances, they were still getting closer and closer and we were doing nothing to stop that happening.

I cannot believe that you are unable to see the problems in the Ireland performances under Trap. Last night's game, the game against Kazakhstan, the home game against Armenia last campaign, the home and away games against Russia, the home game against Slovakia, the home leg against France before that, and more. The signs that our team isn't organised properly and are following an ineffective plan are always there. Sometimes the results go for us and sometimes they don't, but the issues on the pitch are blindingly obvious. Seriously, what the fúck are you seeing when you watch Ireland play?



This team giving up space on the edge of the box and relying on last ditch tackles and blocks is hardly an unusual situation. You call it criminal yet it has been a hallmark of Trap's time in charge. A good manager would have done something about that by now. What's your excuse for Trap's inability to fix this basic problem?

In recent games we have passed the ball slightly better, pressed in a very organised fashion (at times).

However, you are correct. But this is not a Trapattoni phenomenon by any means. We defended too deep and passed poorly under Kerr, Staunton, McCarthy too at times.

If this was an isolated phenomenon specific to this coach, severe questions would need to be posed about this coach. When it's a pattern under successive coaches, then it's a matter of analysing why we do this.

There are many reasons but amongst them is a technical inability to keep hold of the ball. A technical deficiency amongst our players. This isn't unique to Ireland by any means. Most of our players ply their trade in England. At club level, with one or two notable exceptions (usually Swansea and Arsenal), English sides are incapable of possession football. That's under all sorts of coaches of varying abilities.

The current Spain side are MASTERS at organised pressing of the ball. But what enables them to do that is not a superior fitness level to us.... it's the fact that when they do regain the ball, they retain it so much better than any other side. So it becomes chicken and the egg - you keep it better, enabling you to chase it better when you lose it.

Lets face some facts: we simply do not have the pace in defensive areas to play a high defensive line. O' Shea, St. Ledger, Clark, even Wilson, would be left for dead by some of the pacy attackers in international football. Playing a high defensive line is not an option.

So, we drop deeper. In itself that's not a problem, many teams have deep-lying defensive lines and cope fine - but that's usually in part due to their ability to pass and retain the ball. Which we can't do. That's a coaching issue but one that the under-age coaches in this country and in England have to address, not Trap. He can encourage us to pass the ball - which we did better in Stockholm and for large parts of the 1st half on Friday. But he can do no more than that.

So, yes, we have issues with ball retention, we have issues with passing the ball, we have issues with dropping too deep. But it's a myopic view to say these problems are Trapattoni-created (or indeed that Trap, or any single coach, can solve it). When players can't keep the ball of course they will start to become disorganised in their pressing and, as a result of tiredness, drop deeper towards their own goal.

I've had the time to watch Montenegro v England, Wales v Croatia, Serbia v Scotland. I caught a few highlights of Northern Ireland. The problem you have rightly pointed out, was endemic in all of the games. Ireland, England, Wales, Scotland all started reasonably well in 1st halfs, passed, pressed, pressured, harried and did ok. But that primitive, limited style of football takes its toll on the body and across all 4 games they dropped progressively deeper in the 2nd half, couldn't find a team-mate with the ball, and there was wave after wave of pressure.

If that's a coincidence, it's a massive one. In more ways than one - geographically 3 British teams v 3 Former Yugoslav Republic teams. One region with a long history & culture of high tempo, blood and thunder football, the other a long tradition of producing technically gifted footballers. Maybe it's just a case of the players in the British Isles play a certain way and that can only cut it for so long in an international fixture against the technically better teams. The difference between us and England is their standard of technically inept players is higher than ours.

Pro. F

zuutroy wrote: »

I just rewatched the last 20 minutes there to try and get a better handle on what went wrong. People who are saying we dropped off are just incorrect, I don't know how that opinion gained traction. I said it last night that I was surprised and encouraged that we were pressing so high at that stage of the game and having watched it again, we had 3-4 in the Austrian half any time they were trying to play out from the back, putting good pressure on despite the fact that Sammon was gassed.

We did have 3 or 4 getting in the faces of their back line at times, but the rest of the team were staying deep leaving some huge gaps in the middle of our half. And then whenever the Austrians strung a few passes together the ones at the front fell back to join the rest. Fair play to the lads for running themselves into the ground, but it is annoying how disorganised and ineffective the whole thing is.

zuutroy wrote: »

There was a passage at 76 minutes that really summed things up where Wilson took back-to-back throws and tried to hoof them up the field into traffic instead of throwing it backwards and retaining possession. Coleman and Walters had at least 5 instances of completely aimless hoofs down the right when there was a possibility of retaining the ball and at one point McCarthy knowingly and willingly kicked the ball into open country down the right as if it was a rugby match.
We gave up possession way too cheaply in midfield instead of having some composure. Walters and McCarthy in particular were guilty of this in the last 7-8 minutes and this is where playing 4-1-4-1 or 4-5-1 or even having someone with a bit of vision like Wes H. would have helped us out.
The most baffling thing of all though is when we won the free just as the clock ticked over 90 to the right of their box. Not bringing on a sub there is just beyond comprehension. You have a free pass to waste one minute of the additional 3 as well as the psychological blow to the Austrians who have to watch their valuable seconds tick away. Then, when they take the free they don't put it up their jumper in the corner? Another baffling move. I think it was Whelan and Walters that were involved. These guys play for Stoke. Surely to hell they know how to kill off a game. Walk it to the flag and kick it off a defender for a throw or a corner. Another 30 seconds wasted and the next time Austria get the ball the game is over.

I wouldn't say that Walters and McCarthy were any more guilty than the rest, they were all at it, but I completely agree that we gave up possession far too cheaply. You just can't hope to succeed with that little of the ball.

Imo Trap has this team petrified of being caught in possession and he plays with far too high a ratio of workers to ball players, inability to hold onto possession is the natural consequence of that approach.

LuckyLloyd

Something struck me just there: Trapp will see us to the end of this campaign and then the haters will get their McDermott / prem reject flavour of the month in. So, in two years we'll have a good idea about whether Trapp had us punching above our weight or not. Until then, this argument is quite pointless. The team and manager needs to be roared on in September and anyone unwilling to do that can go **** themselves, irrelevant.

Bounty Hunter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Something struck me just there: Trapp will see us to the end of this campaign and then the haters will get their McDermott / prem reject flavour of the month in. So, in two years we'll have a good idea about whether Trapp had us punching above our weight or not. Until then, this argument is quite pointless. The team and manager needs to be roared on in September and anyone unwilling to do that can go **** themselves, irrelevant.

I would say trap is meeting expectations, but that doesent mean a good job is being done just that what is being expected is being done, I don't expect us to qualify for Rio and didn't before the campaign though I always hold out optimistic hope.

Perhaps in a few years time a new man wont be getting better results (no Crystal ball is no point in delving into this too much) but i'd imagine most of the trap detractors aren't 100% focused on if Traps points haul has met expectations although that is the most important thing. These people might still be appeased if the new man does makes a number of tweaks and for instance gets Ireland playing a more attractive / less ridgid form of football while integrating and dealing with players better (attending games etc too).

The main thing with Trap atm imo is his mike Basset-esque refusal to alter from 442 in competitive fixtures (along with how he integrates new players). People should not expect players look Houlihan etc to start as they dont fit Traps system but it's very understandable for people to think that Traps system is not actually the best fit for the players currently at our disposal. These people have been looking at a Green/Andrews & Whelan crentral pairing and thinking we would be far better off with McCarthy, Gibson & Houlihan for quite a while.

leonidas83

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Something struck me just there: Trapp will see us to the end of this campaign and then the haters will get their McDermott / prem reject flavour of the month in. So, in two years we'll have a good idea about whether Trapp had us punching above our weight or not. Until then, this argument is quite pointless. The team and manager needs to be roared on in September and anyone unwilling to do that can go **** themselves, irrelevant.

Nobody is suggesting McDermott except u & anyone that does so deserves a slap. Were IRELAND not N.Ireland, Wales or bottom of the table Scotland.

Managers that should be considered when Trap is finally gotten rid of
- Harry Redknapp(depends on whether QPR get relegated or not)
- Frank Rijkaard (career is in freefall currently but he's had success at int.level before)
- Roy Keane (He's Irish, had reasonable success at Sunderland, inspirational)
- Mick McCarthy (Did well previously, plays better football than Trap, respected)
- Guus Hiddink (enjoys international mgmt., great track record, proven winner)

With the kind of salary Trap is on, attracting any of the above shouldn't be too difficult were they open to the move.

applehunter

Trap's salary cannot be justified next time out considering the state of the game in Ireland atm. Unless Denis O'Brien wants to pick up the tab completely.

Brian McDermott will be a contender when the job come up. He's the fav. in the bookies.

GavRedKing

leonidas83 wrote: »

Nobody is suggesting McDermott except u & anyone that does so deserves a slap. Were IRELAND not N.Ireland, Wales or bottom of the table Scotland.

Managers that should be considered when Trap is finally gotten rid of
- Harry Redknapp(depends on whether QPR get relegated or not)
- Frank Rijkaard (career is in freefall currently but he's had success at int.level before)
- Roy Keane (He's Irish, had reasonable success at Sunderland, inspirational)
- Mick McCarthy (Did well previously, plays better football than Trap, respected)
- Guus Hiddink (enjoys international mgmt., great track record, proven winner)

With the kind of salary Trap is on, attracting any of the above shouldn't be too difficult were they open to the move.

I dont think the FAI and O'Brien will be to gung-ho and handing over mega bucks to a Redknapp, Hiddink or Rijkaard after Trapp is gone.

What is Trapp's contract reportedly at? 1.7 Million? Will they be willing to spend that again to bring in a top calibre manager and will that manager fancy trying to take a 3rd seed team up the rankings with an outside chance of getting to a major tournament?

Time will tell, however a few years ago if you offered me a Euro's and narrowly missing out on WC2010 I'd have bitten your hand off as would the majority of fans a few years ago I'd imagine.

leonidas83

applehunter wrote: »

Trap's salary cannot be justified next time out considering the state of the game in Ireland atm. Unless Denis O'Brien wants to pick up the tab completely.

Brian McDermott will be a contender when the job come up. He's the fav. in the bookies.

Yes because they've never been wrong before. There isnt a hope McDermott will get the job. We have better Irish options, McCarthy, Keane, O'Leary, Kerr, Houghton. I'd even given Dunphy or Giles a go before him.

The_Kew_Tour

McCarthy would be my choice followed by Kerr, but latter has no chance.

The_Kew_Tour

What I would give to have Mark Kinsella and Matt Holland being around these days to play with James MaCarthy. Players that were underrated at a time when Roy Keane was at his best.

Its a pity Gibson has the attitude he has.

LuckyLloyd

leonidas83 wrote: »

Nobody is suggesting McDermott except u & anyone that does so deserves a slap. Were IRELAND not N.Ireland, Wales or bottom of the table Scotland.

Managers that should be considered when Trap is finally gotten rid of
- Harry Redknapp(depends on whether QPR get relegated or not)
- Frank Rijkaard (career is in freefall currently but he's had success at int.level before)
- Roy Keane (He's Irish, had reasonable success at Sunderland, inspirational)
- Mick McCarthy (Did well previously, plays better football than Trap, respected)
- Guus Hiddink (enjoys international mgmt., great track record, proven winner)

With the kind of salary Trap is on, attracting any of the above shouldn't be too difficult were they open to the move.

Huh? Very short with the bookies dude.

The salary Trapp is on is relative to his ability and achievements in the game. Only Hiddink would be worth the same money.

And let's be honest, bar Hiddink (who would be completely unrealistic) that's a pretty depressing list all told. McCarthy would be a fine appointment, thought he did a great job with us and has held his own since then. I think Rijkaard and Redknapp would be a disaster - we have a very different crop of players to what they've worked with during the better times in their career.

If you think there is division and media pressure now, it's a fragment of what would be in play if Keane got the job. I think he's deserving of a shot tbh, but I wouldn't exactly have high expectations of it working out.

Ultimately the list of serious candidates when Trapp goes is going to be underwhelming. I'd much rather see Kerr get another crack than McDermott be given the job. But there's going to be nothing to touch the excitement and euphoria of Trapp's appointment.

SlickRic

Roy Keane?

i'd pay to see that.

just because it'd be a car crash from all angles, not because he'd make us any good.

The_Kew_Tour

SlickRic wrote: »

Roy Keane?

i'd pay to see that.

just because it'd be a car crash from all angles, not because he'd make us any good.

That wont happen, so don't hold your breath.

LuckyLloyd

GavRedKing wrote: »

I dont think the FAI and O'Brien will be to gung-ho and handing over mega bucks to a Redknapp, Hiddink or Rijkaard after Trapp is gone.

What is Trapp's contract reportedly at? 1.7 Million? Will they be willing to spend that again to bring in a top calibre manager and will that manager fancy trying to take a 3rd seed team up the rankings with an outside chance of getting to a major tournament?

Time will tell, however a few years ago if you offered me a Euro's and narrowly missing out on WC2010 I'd have bitten your hand off as would the majority of fans a few years ago I'd imagine.

I don't think so and I think that a partial reason why not is that they'll have seen that they don't necessarily need to. Trapp's record hasn't been respected by the media or fanbase; and it has been made clear from many quarters that an attempt to play "good" football and pick a squad on the basis of form will keep a majority of observers happy, results be damned. If I was John Delaney, I'd be bearing that in mind when it comes to hiring a replacement.

LuckyLloyd

SlickRic wrote: »

Roy Keane?

i'd pay to see that.

just because it'd be a car crash from all angles, not because he'd make us any good.

Meh, I wouldn't write it off. He's won the Championship before, he's not hapless by any stretch. An Irish side under him would be told to go out and have a go anyway, you'd be sure of that.

To put it another way; I'd much rather him than McDermott or Harry Redknapp. Being one of the best Irish players of all time counts for something.

Essien

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Trapp's record hasn't been respected by the media or fanbase

Personally I'd never question Traps calibre as a coach or what he's done throughout his career. Myself and the vast majority of Irish fans as well as most of what I see in the media are questioning what he's doing currently with Ireland, in that respect, his record is irrelevant.

Nalz

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yes.

lol, good head scratching

noodler

Essien wrote: »

Personally I'd never question Traps calibre as a coach or what he's done throughout his career. Myself and the vast majority of Irish fans as well as most of what I see in the media are questioning what he's doing currently with Ireland, in that respect, his record is irrelevant.

Progression though, thats the issue.

Okay, we went from being a joke to a narrow play-off defeat with France and the football was awful generally. Sitting back at home against Cyprus and Bulgaria etc but period of transition etc.

The football never really progressed. The results did to an extent (helped by a Slovakian implosion but that is not our problem).

Third campaign now and there has been very little evolution in our play despite the fact the manager has had over 5 years to get to grips with the squad.

What I wouldn't give for Duff and Dunne to have be in that team on Tuesday night though. Coleman and Duff on the right wing, O'Shea and Dunne together.

sReq | uTeK

wonderfullife wrote: »

Can't be argued?? Not sure what match you watched but Austria were the better team for the first 20 minutes and the entire 2nd half.

]

God at the risk of getting a card, your posts are ****ing horrible.

you have NO CLUE what you're on about nor do you understand what the general point is here.

Funnily enough they were the better team until they scored, we as a team then HAD to come and attack and look what happens when we are free to express ourselves and not restrained by a man who things 442 shapes the universe, we ****ing BATTERED them. What happened when we went 2-1 up? we retreated and started the game as we did in the 1st minute.
Obviously as a result of the half time team talk.

The subs that were used, the continuous reliance on 442 it's embarrassing a wealth of different subs and formations would have seen us kill of that game. We SHOULD NOT be making subs to hang on against Austria that is the point, 2 points from 2 games when it could easily have been 6 if he let this team of his leash and allowed them to play in the manner they so obviously can.

LuckyLloyd

Essien wrote: »

Personally I'd never question Traps calibre as a coach or what he's done throughout his career. Myself and the vast majority of Irish fans as well as most of what I see in the media are questioning what he's doing currently with Ireland, in that respect, his record is irrelevant.

'Trapp is a dinosaur'
Trapp hasn't done anything worthwile since the 80's'
'He's senile'
'He hasn't a clue'
'Still needs a translator'
'Too old'

etc, etc. Let's not pretend that criticism has been respectful and solely focussed on tactical decision making.

LuckyLloyd

noodler wrote: »

Progression though, thats the issue.

Okay, we went from being a joke to a narrow play-off defeat with France and the football was awful generally. Sitting back at home against Cyprus and Bulgaria etc but period of transition etc.

The football never really progressed. The results did to an extent (helped by a Slovakian implosion but that is not our problem).

Third campaign now and there has been very little evolution in our play despite the fact the manager has had over 5 years to get to grips with the squad.

What I wouldn't give for Duff and Dunne to have be in that team on Tuesday night though. Coleman and Duff on the right wing, O'Shea and Dunne together.

That's not an unreasonable way to view his tenure. However it should be noted that the talent of players available has regressed. People will point to the emergence of Coleman / McClean / Wilson but I think that is more than cancelled out by the aging or retirement of Given, Dunne, Duff, Keane. In 2008 we had four players who provided a real top class spine. They've left a big void to fill.

LuckyLloyd

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

]

God at the risk of getting a card, your posts are ****ing horrible.

you have NO CLUE what you're on about nor do you understand what the general point is here.

Funnily enough they were the better team until they scored, we as a team then HAD to come and attack and look what happens when we are free to express ourselves and not restrained by a man who things 442 shapes the universe, we ****ing BATTERED them. What happened when we went 2-1 up? we retreated and started the game as we did in the 1st minute.
Obviously as a result of the half time team talk.

The subs that were used, the continuous reliance on 442 it's embarrassing a wealth of different subs and formations would have seen us kill of that game. We SHOULD NOT be making subs to hang on against Austria that is the point, 2 points from 2 games when it could easily have been 6 if he let this team of his leash and allowed them to play in the manner they so obviously can.

It's like people forget Irish footballing precedent. When was the last time an Irish side beat a no.1 or no.2 seed away from home? When was the last qualifying campaign that we steamrolled no.4 seeds at home?

People thinking that we should clearly have beaten Sweden or had it easy against Austria. What is that expectation based on? I genuinely can't see it to be honest.

Essien

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

'Trapp is a dinosaur'
Trapp hasn't done anything worthwile since the 80's'
'He's senile'
'He hasn't a clue'
'Still needs a translator'
'Too old'

etc, etc. Let's not pretend that criticism has been respectful and solely focussed on tactical decision making.

You're right, I won't say it's been respectful. However, he clearly frustrates the majority of the fans of the team he's paid handsomely to manage. I doubt there a are many managers in modern football who have done that and managed to escape the level/type of criticism you've pointed out here. It comes with the job.

Essien

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

It's like people forget Irish footballing precedent. When was the last time an Irish side beat a no.1 or no.2 seed away from home? When was the last qualifying campaign that we steamrolled no.4 seeds at home?

People thinking that we should clearly have beaten Sweden or had it easy against Austria. What is that expectation based on? I genuinely can't see it to be honest.

But when the opportunity is clearly there (IMO and has been argued at length over a few threads so lets not go there), why not go for it? Why not try to change?

We want progression right? So why do you and others keep saying "How can you expect X when we've never done X in the past"?

Again, when taking the Austria game in isolation, those expectations weren't unreasonable.