Ireland Vs Austria - K/O 7:45PM - Sky Sports 2 & RTÉ 2

The_Kew_Tour

wonderfullife wrote: »

Starting with a big man does not automatically mean hoofball. It's about finding the right mixture. Look at the 2002 World Cup, we played a lot of on the ground football but still had the option of the direct ball to Quinn looking to lay Robbie in, and had Quinns height from set-pieces. But we still played a good deal of football on the ground.

It happens at a lot of clubs with big target men. Stoke and West Ham this year, for all that they get a bad rep, play a lot of fooball on the ground and have an option of direct balls to vary the play.

It's a very dismissive view to think Coleman, Wilson and Clark are just going to pick the ball up and hoof it in the direction of Sammon. They may do that on occasion but i doubt that will be the way we play on the whole.

Now this is talking common sense.

Good point

gosplan

PurpleSt4in wrote: »

Yeah fair enough if we had an actual experienced winger to put there... but we're putting Walters there.

Granted but he has a fair few caps at this stage. He won't set the world alight but he should be standing in the right place most of the time. Also he'll be handy at set pieces, both attacking and defending.

Brady's at the whole other end of the spectrum though, very little experience at any level. Not knocking him here btw, just figure Trap may have looked at Coleman, McCarthy and McLean and figured that's enough newbies.

applehunter

I like Walters in that position.

He knows how to play it as he plays that position at Stoke. He worked well with Coleman and Wildon on Friday and he is always a threat at set pieces.

MaroonAndGreen

I have no problem with Hoolahan not starting.

Its 4-4-2 without him, and its 4-5-1 with him. Its actually going to be as offensive as we have ever lined up competitively under Trap.. as the 4-4-2 will now contain an attacking midfielder (McCarthy) instead of the usual two defensive midfielders.

And lets give Sammon a chance lads. Most here that are knocking him have never seen him play, and if they have its only been once or twice, so give it a rest with the negativity, some lads here really just complaining for the sake of it.

COYBIG

applehunter

@wonderfulllife....All evidence points to Forde launching it every time and us working off knock downs and set pieces.

wonderfullife

applehunter wrote: »

@wonderfulllife....All evidence points to Forde launching it every time and us working off knock downs and set pieces.

well i saw plenty of evidence Friday of Coleman, Wilson, Clark and O' Shea building from the back. On 3 or 4 occasions Forde threw it quick to full backs versus punting it up field. (and given we had Walters on the field that would have been a temptation).

Trap is not stupid. He knows well we won't get anywhere lumping it up to Sammon non stop all game. It IS a varying option though.

gosplan

applehunter wrote: »

@wonderfulllife....All evidence points to Forde launching it every time and us working off knock downs and set pieces.

Nah, after Green's good showing, Trap could have started with Him and Whealen with Brady to win/take set pieces.

McCarthy starting means he's not interested in just bypassing the midfield, the choice of fullbacks mean they'll be getting forward again.

Idbatterim

Most (including myself) were critical of Green even making the team last Friday, but it worked out fairly well.

just taking this post, but there have been many others in relation to Green, what I dont get is, we can only judge him on what we have seen to date, and IMO it hasnt been great and we have better options. Now he puts on a good display on Saturday and all the others are meant to be forgotten? If he does it at least semi consistently I think people might start changing their minds...

Its like playing a good player and when he has an off game saying, "he shouldnt be playing, I told you so"...

wonderfullife

For me, it was beautiful to see Forde & Colemans reaction at the final whistle. They were genuinely delighted and it showed how much playing for their country meant to them.

I'm all too aware skill and ability counts more than passion but still lovely to see. Connor Sammon obviously coming through the ranks at Cherry Orchard and UCD will be absolutely buzzing to play for his country tomorrow in Dublin and you can guarantee with more characters like Sammon, Forde and Coleman, irrespective of their ability, our squad and national team will be in good shape.

Lets get behind the lad and root for him to do well. If it's not working out we have a wonderful option off the bench in Hoolahan.

applehunter

wonderfullife wrote: »

well i saw plenty of evidence Friday of Coleman, Wilson, Clark and O' Shea building from the back. On 3 or 4 occasions Forde threw it quick to full backs versus punting it up field. (and given we had Walters on the field that would have been a temptation).

Trap is not stupid. He knows well we won't get anywhere lumping it up to Sammon non stop all game. It IS a varying option though.

3/4 out of how many?

On all known evidence, Long and Sammon will be jumping for 50/50's all night. Most of the time giving possession back to the Austrians.

The high-pressing tactic of the front 4 together was hopefully a breakthrough moment for the management. It yielded some of our most promising attacks. Much more than the aimless long ball that's for sure.

newballsplease

Sammon will definitly score 2mro nite after all this !

Hannibal

I'd be interested to know how many of the Austrian team Trapattoni managed at RB Salzburg during his spell there between 2006 and 2008, it could give a wee bit of an advantage. I know their forward and probably main goal threat Janko was there but dont know who else.

Going into the Euro's our starting line up was predicatable with Given, OShea, Ward, Dunne, St Ledger, Whelan, Andrews, McGeady, Duff, Keane, Doyle now less than a year later only two of them players are lining up tomorrow with St Ledger and Doyle on the bench so that's a lot of upheaval from a steady team to one that's had such limited time together. I can understand Trapattoni's caution with the team because if you take O'Shea, Whelan and Long out of that team there is a shocking lack of caps in that team mostly due to retirements and injury. Hoolahan seems to be the new Andy Reid who everyone sees as the Irish Maradona, Hoolahan rarely plays 90mins so if it's not going right he could be the right man in the second half same with Kevin Doyle.

leonidas83

Can understand why Trap didn't opt for a 4-5-1 at home but still, giving a supposed striker a start who has scored only 8 goals in nearly two seasons is not a good idea when were looking to score. No offense to Sammon but there is better options for us there.

Could have played Holohan behind Long or started with a pairing of Walters & Long up front. Thats just two off the top of my head.

Obviously what Trap seems to be planning is for Sammon to give their defenders a hard time for 60 mins or so & then to bring on Holohan to open them up with through balls for Long & co. The game could be over by then unfortunately. Austria are no mugs & will exploit the hump it long approach if that's what we persist with.

Playing a direct 4-4-2 just seems very outdated now. No such thing as a 4-3-2-1, 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1. Trap doesnt seem to understand the opposition can see our tactics a mile off.

happydayz182

I posted earlier about tickets and someones suggested ticketmaster..I am just wondering would it be possible to get them at the stadium itself as there 4 of 5 of us and we basically don't have the money in our accounts to buy them online!

roanoke

Dotsey wrote: »

I'd be interested to know how many of the Austrian team Trapattoni managed at RB Salzburg during his spell there between 2006 and 2008, it could give a wee bit of an advantage. I know their forward and probably main goal threat Janko was there but dont know who else.

There's four that fall into that category. Only two of them have much liklihood of playing tomorrow, Ivanschitz & Janko. The other two are Leitgeb & Özcan.

nbar12

newballsplease wrote: »

Sammon will definitly score 2mro nite after all this !

waheyyyy you jinxed it, well done!

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Wilson, Colemann and McCarthy have been involved the last few Internationals. It was clear up front in November 2011 that the squad that got us there would be the one's to do the job in Polkrania and that things would be reassesed after. That is what has been done to date and yet you still moan?

Wilson, Coleman, McCarthy and Hoolahan should have been getting games long before November 2011. There was no reason why it had to wait until the qualification campaign was over before they could be brought in.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As for Hoolahan, he doesn't fit with the system, that's it. There is no randomness to what the intent is tomorrow night. This will be a big and strong Irish side with the best available free kick taker in the squad put straight back in. People may not like that approach but it is definitely a valid one given the resources at our disposal.

Of course Hoolahan fits with the system. We played with a number 10 off the centre forward on Friday doing the job of linking up play and threatening the goal while in possession, occupying the deeper opposition CMs when defending. And the system worked better than it has done in years.

That number 10 role is the position Hoolahan plays.

aramush

What happens if Wilson is out? St. Ledger in and Clark left full?

klose

aramush wrote: »

What happens if Wilson is out? St. Ledger in and Clark left full?

Kelly will play

Al Capwned

aramush wrote: »

What happens if Wilson is out? St. Ledger in and Clark left full?

Stephen Kelly.

Jarrod

wonderfullife wrote: »

For me, it was beautiful to see Forde & Colemans reaction at the final whistle. They were genuinely delighted and it showed how much playing for their country meant to them.

I'm all too aware skill and ability counts more than passion but still lovely to see. Connor Sammon obviously coming through the ranks at Cherry Orchard and UCD will be absolutely buzzing to play for his country tomorrow in Dublin and you can guarantee with more characters like Sammon, Forde and Coleman, irrespective of their ability, our squad and national team will be in good shape.

Lets get behind the lad and root for him to do well. If it's not working out we have a wonderful option off the bench in Hoolahan.

I thought the celebrating was over the top to be honest. I mean had that been a point in Germany or a win in Sweden then fair enough but a draw in a game that in all honesty we could have won isn't worth getting that excited about.

As for your second paragraph, it's nonsense. Having seen plenty of Conor Sammon I can tell you that he's not good enough to play for Ireland and at 26, probably never will be. I'm sure there's plenty of footballers who'd be 'buzzing' to play tomorrow night but if you're not good enough, I'm afriad you're just not good enough.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be right behind whatever 11 starts tomorrow night but I think we're putting ourselves at a disadvantage before a ball is kicked and we all know that if it's not working Trap will probably leave it late before changing anything.

The_B_Man

happydayz182 wrote: »

I posted earlier about tickets and someones suggested ticketmaster..I am just wondering would it be possible to get them at the stadium itself as there 4 of 5 of us and we basically don't have the money in our accounts to buy them online!

I was at the last home game and got them off Ticketmaster the day before.
They let me print them out there and then.
They were just A4 pages with the ticket and a barcode that u just scan at the door.
I got tickets for this one a week in advance. It didnt give me the option to print them but they posted them out to me instead.

I reckon u could just try get them off ticketmaster now and see if you can print them out.

Pro. F

briany wrote: »

You have to weigh the performance vs. prior expectation to see the big picture. Everyone, the public/pundits/bookies thought Ireland would crumble on Friday with all that had been going on but they just went ahead and put in the same defensively stubborn performance they always do away from home. That's laudable but it doesn't change the fact that Ireland need to win this game to remain in control of their destiny. I'm trying to look at this double header as two halves of the same game and I think the only way to make a clear judgement of the team's progress is after the dust settles on Tuesday night.

Not everybody was thinking Ireland would crumble on Friday.

Even taking into account that Sweden lack creativity in their midfield, it was an excellent performance on Friday. But to describe the performance as ''the same defensively stubborn performance they always do away from home'' is wrong imo. It was actually a very unusual performance from this Irish team. They pressed high up the pitch in an organised fashion (they usually sit deep with poor coordination between the back four and midfield) and there were two fullbacks and a central midfielder looking for the ball all the time. That was anything but a normal Ireland away performance.

Augmerson

Pro. F wrote: »

Not everybody was thinking Ireland would crumble on Friday.

Even taking into account that Sweden lack creativity in their midfield, it was an excellent performance on Friday. But to describe the performance as ''the same defensively stubborn performance they always do away from home'' is wrong imo. It was actually a very unusual performance from this Irish team. They pressed high up the pitch in an organised fashion (they usually sit deep with poor coordination between the back four and midfield) and there were two fullbacks and a central midfielder looking for the ball all the time. That was anything but a normal Ireland away performance.

I thought they played in a similar fashion against Poland. For me, that was a big change in how the team usually played. I think the 6-1 drubbing at the hands of zee Germans has been a real wake up call for Trap and Tardelli and things might be changing for the better now.

Well, maybe. Probably not. I live in hope.

wonderfullife

Jarrod wrote: »

I thought the celebrating was over the top to be honest. I mean had that been a point in Germany or a win in Sweden then fair enough but a draw in a game that in all honesty we could have won isn't worth getting that excited about.

As for your second paragraph, it's nonsense. Having seen plenty of Conor Sammon I can tell you that he's not good enough to play for Ireland and at 26, probably never will be. I'm sure there's plenty of footballers who'd be 'buzzing' to play tomorrow night but if you're not good enough, I'm afriad you're just not good enough.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be right behind whatever 11 starts tomorrow night but I think we're putting ourselves at a disadvantage before a ball is kicked and we all know that if it's not working Trap will probably leave it late before changing anything.

That's results based thinking. You saw the game, then think we could have won hence a draw not worth celebrating.

The reality is it was a huge away point in a difficult away fixture and gives the lads a platform to build on that tomorrow night. If we win tomorrow then that away point could be absolutely vital by the end of the campaign.

So, no i couldn't agree it was over-celebrated. Forde pulled off a late save, it was his competitive debut and Coleman recognised that and celebrated with him.

gosplan

Pro. F wrote: »

Of course Hoolahan fits with the system. We played with a number 10 off the centre forward on Friday doing the job of linking up play and threatening the goal while in possession, occupying the deeper opposition CMs when defending. And the system worked better than it has done in years.

That number 10 role is the position Hoolahan plays.

But Keane is a very different player with different abilities and a lot more experience at this level.

wonderfullife

Pro. F wrote: »

Wilson, Coleman, McCarthy and Hoolahan should have been getting games long before November 2011. There was no reason why it had to wait until the qualification campaign was over before they could be brought in.



Of course Hoolahan fits with the system. We played with a number 10 off the centre forward on Friday doing the job of linking up play and threatening the goal while in possession, occupying the deeper opposition CMs when defending. And the system worked better than it has done in years.

That number 10 role is the position Hoolahan plays.

To be fair, we had zero shots on target and our best chance was a shot from 18 yards from Long. Which is fine in a tough away game where a point is deemed a good result, but for a home game needing a win that won't cut it.

Playing with Hoolahan from start means 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1, Sammon starting is a traditional 4-4-2. Sammon offers a goal threat from set pieces and a different option for attacking if the full backs are getting no joy down the flanks.

Wes may be capable in the number 10 role but it's most definitely not a role he has played in regularly for his club this season. Chris Hughton has been generally going for 4-4-2 in recent times with Becchio & Holt up top with 1 of Hoolahan/Bennett/Pilkington in midfield alongside Tettey.

Even when Hughton has been playing 4-5-1 he's not gone for a number 10 position, choosing to playing both Bennett and Hoolahan.

I'm happy with the Sammon selection. Clearly we would all prefer if a peak Kevin Doyle was available to partner Long, but as it stands whether we are winning or losing , Hoolahan is a good footballer to have to impact on the game around the 60 min mark.

applehunter

@wonderfulllife

Load of bollix your spouting there. Hoolahan has been playing in the hole for Norwich all season and most of last season as well.

wonderfullife

applehunter wrote: »

@wonderfulllife

Load of bollix your spouting there. Hoolahan has been playing in the hole for Norwich all season and most of last season as well.

check out their line-ups this season and you'll see Hughton been playing a lot with 2 strikers and Wes in an attacking midfield role, not the traditional number 10 in the hole off 1 striker.

Pro. F

wonderfullife wrote: »

To be fair, we had zero shots on target and our best chance was a shot from 18 yards from Long. Which is fine in a tough away game where a point is deemed a good result, but for a home game needing a win that won't cut it.

Playing with Hoolahan from start means 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1, Sammon starting is a traditional 4-4-2. Sammon offers a goal threat from set pieces and a different option for attacking if the full backs are getting no joy down the flanks.

Wes may be capable in the number 10 role but it's most definitely not a role he has played in regularly for his club this season. Chris Hughton has been generally going for 4-4-2 in recent times with Becchio & Holt up top with 1 of Hoolahan/Bennett/Pilkington in midfield alongside Tettey.

Even when Hughton has been playing 4-5-1 he's not gone for a number 10 position, choosing to playing both Bennett and Hoolahan.

I'm happy with the Sammon selection. Clearly we would all prefer if a peak Kevin Doyle was available to partner Long, but as it stands whether we are winning or losing , Hoolahan is a good footballer to have to impact on the game around the 60 min mark.

Hoolahan has played the number 10 role 20 times so far this season. By far his most common position, and Norwich have played 4411/451 22 times at least.

Hoolahan isn't just capable of playing the number 10 role, it is his natural position, he plays it all the time and he is excellent at it.

Keane is only doing a job at number 10 (he is far inferior to Hoolahan there) so it's no surprise the team lacked a bit of creativity on Friday. Hoolahan only came on in the 77th minute and then had to make do with Keogh and Sammon, instead of Long and McClean, alongside him soon after.

We would be losing Sammon's height at set pieces, but he is not that big and he is not that good either. We would still have Walters, O'Shea and Clarke who are all big fellas. Size and strength for set pieces hasn't been such a concern before when Trap was starting Doyle for years.

wonderfullife wrote: »

check out their line-ups this season and you'll see Hughton been playing a lot with 2 strikers and Wes in an attacking midfield role, not the traditional number 10 in the hole off 1 striker.

No, you are wrong.

applehunter

wonderfullife wrote: »

check out their line-ups this season and you'll see Hughton been playing a lot with 2 strikers and Wes in an attacking midfield role, not the traditional number 10 in the hole off 1 striker.

Knock yourself out.

http://int.soccerway.com/teams/england/norwich-city-fc/677/

Pro. F

gosplan wrote: »

But Keane is a very different player with different abilities and a lot more experience at this level.

Yes lots of different abilities between Keane and Hoolahan, the important difference is the fact that Hoolahan is much better than Keane when they are playing number 10.

And Hoolahan is hardly short of experience, he has played in a lot of games against teams much stronger than Sweden and Austria.

simongurnick

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes lots of different abilities between Keane and Hoolahan, the important difference is the fact that Hoolahan is much better than Keane when they are playing number 10.

And Hoolahan is hardly short of experience, he has played in a lot of games against teams much stronger than Sweden and Austria.

The real difference though is Trap is setting the team up differently in this game. Keane played in the deeper position to break up the Swedes playing from deep. Trap feels we don't need that at home against Austria, hence two up top...which means Hoolahan misses out on the start but is still a great option to spring from the bench if we need a change.

Pro. F

simongurnick wrote: »

The real difference though is Trap is setting the team up differently in this game. Keane played in the deeper position to break up the Swedes playing from deep. Trap feels we don't need that at home against Austria, hence two up top...which means Hoolahan misses out on the start but is still a great option to spring from the bench if we need a change.

442 is not more attacking than 4411/451. The idea that it is is ridiculous.

If you want goals and your choice is between Hoolahan and Sammon, it's madness to go with Sammon.

I'm not saying that Sammon won't be any use. He'll get plenty of opportunity to fight for long balls and he might get confidence and battle well, maybe he'll score too. But the only justifiable reason for keeping Hoolahan out before now was because he might have been a bad fit alongside our best goalscorer. Keane is out now, so Hoolahan who is our most creative player should be involved. If you want somebody bigger than Long up front then replace him, don't exclude Hoolahan.

simongurnick

Pro. F wrote: »

442 is not more attacking than 4411/451. The idea that it is is ridiculous.

If you want goals and your choice is between Hoolahan and Sammon, it's madness to go with Sammon.

I'm not saying that Sammon won't be any use. He'll get plenty of opportunity to fight for long balls and he might get confidence and battle well, maybe he'll score too. But the only justifiable reason for keeping Hoolahan out before now was because he might have been a bad fit alongside our best goalscorer. Keane is out now, so Hoolahan who is our most creative player should be involved. If you want somebody bigger than Long up front then replace him, don't exclude Hoolahan.

I didn't say that.
I'm making the point that it is not just a case of replacing player A with player B, it's about the set up of the entire team. There is no doubting Hoolahan's quality but playing him means Long is basically on his own up front. How many times on Friday did you see him pulling himself up off the ground, bitching at the ref. He didn't have the best night and maybe he will do better with Sammon alongside him, as opposed to Hoolahan behind him.

Pro. F

simongurnick wrote: »

I didn't say that.
I'm making the point that it is not just a case of replacing player A with player B, it's about the set up of the entire team. There is no doubting Hoolahan's quality but playing him means Long is basically on his own up front. How many times on Friday did you see him pulling himself up off the ground, bitching at the ref. He didn't have the best night and maybe he will do better with Sammon alongside him, as opposed to Hoolahan behind him.

Right I get what you're saying. I thought you were going with what Trap has said about playing two strikers being attacking, but I understand now.

I don't think Long did that bad. He would do a lot better with Hoolahan behind him than Keane, that's for sure. But if Long really can't do the job at centre forward then stick Walters in there, or Sammon if you think he's good enough to start.

I know that there are lots of different factors in the team, but if Hoolahan isn't getting a start even when Keane is out, and Sammon is, there's something very wrong.

wonderfullife

applehunter wrote: »

Knock yourself out.

http://int.soccerway.com/teams/england/norwich-city-fc/677/

I've seen every line up they have put out this season. Wes only started 1 of the first 5 Premier League games and started 7 out of the first 15 matches in total. Of those 7 starts he only lasted a full 90 mins twice. In the games Hughton went 4-5-1 he had 2 attacking midfielders, one sitting, and Holt up top. The idea he was playing a traditional number 10 role, like a Rooney or what Robbie Keane does for us, i'll agree to differ.

Rooney, Keane, and others who play that false striker role are generally speaking finishers themselves. Hoolahan for all his talent isn't a finisher. Neither is Sammon really. But the manager obviously feels that he brings more to the side for the tactics he wants to employ than a ball player like Hoolahan does. If the coach is intent on going 4-4-2 with the big-little combination then it's what he'll do.

Anyway if i'm wrong i'm wrong, won't be the first time, so we'll leave the norwich chat there. It's just diverting from the point at hand, which is we need a result tomorrow and, as usual, the result will judge the managers selections. No amount of waffle or opinions on who should play where will matter much on the night , we need to win full stop. And i'd certainly prefer to call on Hoolahan with fresh legs if we need to change the game than Sammon.

Pro. F

wonderfullife wrote: »

I've seen every line up they have put out this season. Wes only started 1 of the first 5 Premier League games and started 7 out of the first 15 matches in total. Of those 7 starts he only lasted a full 90 mins twice. In the games Hughton went 4-5-1 he had 2 attacking midfielders, one sitting, and Holt up top. The idea he was playing a traditional number 10 role, like a Rooney or what Robbie Keane does for us, i'll agree to differ.

Rooney, Keane, and others who play that false striker role are generally speaking finishers themselves. Hoolahan for all his talent isn't a finisher. Neither is Sammon really. But the manager obviously feels that he brings more to the side for the tactics he wants to employ than a ball player like Hoolahan does. If the coach is intent on going 4-4-2 with the big-little combination then it's what he'll do.

Anyway if i'm wrong i'm wrong, won't be the first time, so we'll leave the norwich chat there. It's just diverting from the point at hand, which is we need a result tomorrow and, as usual, the result will judge the managers selections. No amount of waffle or opinions on who should play where will matter much on the night , we need to win full stop. And i'd certainly prefer to call on Hoolahan with fresh legs if we need to change the game than Sammon.

You are talking a fierce amount of bollocks. You made claims about what position Hoolahan plays for Norwich and you were wrong. Now it's just waffle and opinions that won't matter on the night according to you. Yeah sure, but you could say that about every discussion on a football forum.

Jarrod

wonderfullife wrote: »

That's results based thinking. You saw the game, then think we could have won hence a draw not worth celebrating.

The reality is it was a huge away point in a difficult away fixture and gives the lads a platform to build on that tomorrow night. If we win tomorrow then that away point could be absolutely vital by the end of the campaign.

So, no i couldn't agree it was over-celebrated. Forde pulled off a late save, it was his competitive debut and Coleman recognised that and celebrated with him.

The fact of the matter is that we have to better one of Sweden's results somewhere along the way and we had the chance to do that on Friday and didn't. I said it in the match thread then and I'll say it again here, we should have tried to win in the closing stages of the game and we didn't. Sweden were there for the taking. I don't think it was a result worth celebrating, it was the minimum we needed. The draw we got in Bulgaria in qualifying for the last WC was equally, if not more important, I don't remember celebrations after that.

Our last two campaigns were built on home and away draws against the other 'top' teams and beating the rest. That isn't an option this time because of the hammering Germany gave us and the fact that Sweden took a point from them. I still think we have a great chance to qualify but we have to win tomorrow night and then be brave either away to Austria or at home to Sweden, or possibly in both games depending on other results.

Goal difference is the separation criteria and we did ourselves no favours against either Kazakhstan or Germany on that front. We should also remember that the lowest ranked 2nd place team won't make the play-offs so two wins could be necessary from the remaining games against Sweden and Austria regardless of other results.

Lovely Bloke

Looks like some of the away fans may have been "pwopa nawty" in and around Temple Bar.

LuckyLloyd

Jarrod wrote: »

The fact of the matter is that we have to better one of Sweden's results somewhere along the way and we had the chance to do that on Friday and didn't. I said it in the match thread then and I'll say it again here, we should have tried to win in the closing stages of the game and we didn't. Sweden were there for the taking. I don't think it was a result worth celebrating, it was the minimum we needed. The draw we got in Bulgaria in qualifying for the last WC was equally, if not more important, I don't remember celebrations after that.

Our last two campaigns were built on home and away draws against the other 'top' teams and beating the rest. That isn't an option this time because of the hammering Germany gave us and the fact that Sweden took a point from them. I still think we have a great chance to qualify but we have to win tomorrow night and then be brave either away to Austria or at home to Sweden, or possibly in both games depending on other results.

Goal difference is the separation criteria and we did ourselves no favours against either Kazakhstan or Germany on that front. We should also remember that the lowest ranked 2nd place team won't make the play-offs so two wins could be necessary from the remaining games against Sweden and Austria regardless of other results.

No it's not.

newballsplease

Anyone hear what the trouble in temple bar last nite was about?

gosplan

Hang on a minute.

Am I correct in saying that people in this thread are now arguing that we don't play 4-4-2 but rather 4-4-1-1 with Robbie Keane in the Wes Hoolahan role, and that there's no real difference in playing Hoolahan there now?

gosplan

Pro. F wrote: »

And Hoolahan is hardly short of experience, he has played in a lot of games against teams much stronger than Sweden and Austria.

You can be very astute at times but do you really think there's no difference between club and international experience? You wouldn't be worried about fielding a team full of first caps as long as they had played a good bit for their club?

LuckyLloyd

gosplan wrote: »

Hang on a minute.

Am I correct in saying that people in this thread are now arguing that we don't play 4-4-2 but rather 4-4-1-1 with Robbie Keane in the Wes Hoolahan role, and that there's no real difference in playing Hoolahan there now?

Yep! Great stuff.

Essien

gosplan wrote: »

Hang on a minute.

Am I correct in saying that people in this thread are now arguing that we don't play 4-4-2 but rather 4-4-1-1 with Robbie Keane in the Wes Hoolahan role, and that there's no real difference in playing Hoolahan there now?

No, you're incorrect, but I'm sure we both already knew that.

The Guardian

anything other than a 2-nil victory and i'll be disappointed

austria is for skiing, no more, no less

homerjay2005

The Guardian wrote: »

anything other than a 2-nil victory and i'll be disappointed

austria is for skiing, no more, no less

3 points is all i care about, it can be 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 for all care, its the result that matters. performance only is a real issue when you lose!

The Guardian

i agree with you homer
but we should be beating the skiers well
hopefully the snow holds off
that bayern fella needs watching - i'd put a man marker on him
tidy footballer

Professional Griefer

newballsplease wrote: »

Anyone hear what the trouble in temple bar last nite was about?

Not sure. I read earlier that 2 austrian fans got their tickets and wallets robbed, but have been replaced by members of another irish soccer forum. Can't remember the name. Think its come on you boys in green, something like that.

Disappointed in hoolahan not starting, still quite confident.