Season 3 Episode 15 - This Sorrowful Life [** Spoilers **]

Penn

username123 wrote: »

I like Merle, but this comparison is way off!!!

Merle was a violent racist meth head red neck.
Sawyer was a pretty boy red neck with a smart mouth.

About the only thing they had in common was their southern accents!

The comparison isn't about their personalities, it was about what their role would be in the group (rubbing people up the wrong way, being sarcastic, challenging the decisions of the group leader, being the guy most people don't really want there but are stuck with).

Again, it provides antagonism within the group as opposed to what we've mostly seen of the group this season which has been everyone agreeing with everyone and liking everyone. Bar Rick's mental breakdowns and Daryl spending an episode with Merle before returning, there hasn't really been any conflict within the group. Everyone either agrees with each other or supports each other even if they don't agree. Even Michonne, Axel and the other prisoner (the token black between T-Dog and Tyreese/Michonne) were able to join the group and become liked members. Merle could never fit in like that because no matter how many good deeds he'd do, he'd still be an asshole and cause internal conflicts like Sawyer did in the first few seasons of Lost.

Lone Stone

Im not really enjoying the second half of this season the first half had me glued to the screen. The second half seems to have gotten less focused but anyway i hope the final makes up for it.

Its really getting bit to repetitive get some background on a character they die.
I really hope s4 has much less characters so we can have more focused episodes like the one rick carl and michon.

krudler

Pity to Merle go, he really came into his own as a character in the last few episodes, they kill off people who are interesting (Merle isn't in the comics) and yet the character's they've fcuked up like Andrea keep going, its infuriating. Rick and Carl they've gotten right though, Carl going from the kid who keeps doing stupid stuff and getting lost to a little gun toting zombie hunting badass in the later parts of it.

Grimebox

I was happy to see Daryl and Glenn have a chat about the tension between him and Merle. If anyone remembers, I had a huge issue with this. Better late than never but just before he dies? That conversation needed to happen 4 episodes ago and BEFORE Glenn attempted to block Merle from leaving the prison; that didn't make a lick of sense. I'm not happy to see Merle go but I am happy that those loose ends were tied it for me personally

username123

One thing that I am finding disappointing is the predictability of where they are going with characters.

It was pretty obvious that the moral redemption of Merle was heading one way.

Its also pretty obvious that Glenn or Maggie is going to be a goner - you can come back and tell me off if Im wrong on this.

Its become extremely linear, there seem to be no minor storylines going on in the background - the episode with Morgan being an exception.

krudler

username123 wrote: »

One thing that I am finding disappointing is the predictability of where they are going with characters.

It was pretty obvious that the moral redemption of Merle was heading one way.

Its also pretty obvious that Glenn or Maggie is going to be a goner - you can come back and tell me off if Im wrong on this.

Its become extremely linear, there seem to be no minor storylines going on in the background - the episode with Morgan being an exception.

That's the thing, they put emphasis on storylines that should last a couple of episodes and string them out for a whole season. in the show Shane is in it until the end of season 2, in the comics (gonna spoil this just in case)

he's gone a few issues into it, really early in the story.

same with the walkers in the barn, the whole farm thing takes place over maybe 2-3 issues of the comic, not dragged out to death (pun intended) like it was in the show.

username123

krudler wrote: »

That's the thing, they put emphasis on storylines that should last a couple of episodes and string them out for a whole season. in the show Shane is in it until the end of season 2, in the comics (gonna spoil this just in case)

he's gone a few issues into it, really early in the story.

same with the walkers in the barn, the whole farm thing takes place over maybe 2-3 issues of the comic, not dragged out to death (pun intended) like it was in the show.

+1

A lot of dragging out happening. Its a mistake to base the entire season of 16 episodes in one place imo. I was bored with the farm, now Im bored with the prison.

I tried to do a re-watch recently - during the mid season hiatus (another massive mistake imo) and I didnt get further than season 2 episode 1 because I couldnt face the long dragged out episodes at the farm.

FlyingIrishMan

I think the show dragged out the farm too much, but I think the comic missed what could have been a great few issues if it stayed there longer. I think season two would have been good six - eight episodes long, and all of it on the farm, squeeze in the randall story as well and it would be great.

Grimebox

krudler wrote: »

That's the thing, they put emphasis on storylines that should last a couple of episodes and string them out for a whole season. in the show Shane is in it until the end of season 2, in the comics (gonna spoil this just in case)

he's gone a few issues into it, really early in the story.

same with the walkers in the barn, the whole farm thing takes place over maybe 2-3 issues of the comic, not dragged out to death (pun intended) like it was in the show.

What the TV show did with Shane was a good thing

Erm, isn't there a rule against comic book discussion...? I know I'd hate it if I was only watching the TV show

krudler

username123 wrote: »

+1

A lot of dragging out happening. Its a mistake to base the entire season of 16 episodes in one place imo. I was bored with the farm, now Im bored with the prison.

I tried to do a re-watch recently - during the mid season hiatus (another massive mistake imo) and I didnt get further than season 2 episode 1 because I couldnt face the long dragged out episodes at the farm.

this show should be 10 eps like Game Of Thrones, which people complain isnt long enough but its a denser story so I agree, 16 eps for TWD is way too long, too many stretched out events and you wind up not caring, and putting a few months mid season break in the middle is criminal, I gave up on season 2, then jumped in and watched the last 2 eps which were really good, you could watch the season recap and miss feck all character development in that season.

Nervous Wreck

krudler wrote: »

16 eps for TWD is way too long, too many stretched out events and you wind up not caring

Disagree. If the seasons were planned better and the writing more consistent, they could easily make a long season work. It's not the format, it's the bad planning.

krudler

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Disagree. If the seasons were planned better and the writing more consistent, they could easily make a long season work. It's not the format, it's the bad planning.

Well there's that yeah, 16 episodes with more eventful writing and defined arcs would work better, feels like season 3 blew its load in the first few eps and now it's just being dragged out, I'd rather 10 eps of worthwhile stuff than 16 of highlights every 3 or 4 episodes and filler every other one.
they handled the Andrea thing horribly, Michonne has come into her own in the last few eps though. I thought the season opener and the episode with Morgan were the two highlights of this season, the Morgan ep because it broke away from the mundane prison stuff.

username123

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Disagree. If the seasons were planned better and the writing more consistent, they could easily make a long season work. It's not the format, it's the bad planning.

Yeah I agree. There is inconsistency in the writing, some episodes are great, some are dragged out, there are not enough storylines or character developments - I mean, do any of us really care about any of the characters with the exception of Daryl right now? Ive kinda stopped caring about Rick at this stage!

Im not a fan of them suddenly dumping in these odd scenes with Herschels youngest daughter breaking into planitive song, or more recently with Herschel reading from the bible to his daughters - just feels out of place.

FlyingIrishMan

As I said before, I'm hopeful season 4 will be better paced due to the fact that the showrunner is the guy who wrote basically every good episode in the show since the start of season 2.

krudler

username123 wrote: »

Yeah I agree. There is inconsistency in the writing, some episodes are great, some are dragged out, there are not enough storylines or character developments - I mean, do any of us really care about any of the characters with the exception of Daryl right now? Ive kinda stopped caring about Rick at this stage!

Im not a fan of them suddenly dumping in these odd scenes with Herschels youngest daughter breaking into planitive song, or more recently with Herschel reading from the bible to his daughters - just feels out of place.

Daryl, Rick, Carl and Michonne are the only worthwhile characters for me right now, Andrea is great in the comic, an absolute dope in the show. I dont mind Glenn, Maggie and Herschel, they don't take up much time.

GrumPy

If you really wanna be disappointed, play the video game. :pac:

Dear lord! Although, if you like the brothers, give a great insight into what they got up to before joining the group in season 1.

FlyingIrishMan

GrumPy wrote: »

If you really wanna be disappointed, play the video game. :pac:

Dear lord! Although, if you like the brothers, give a great insight into what they got up to before joining the group in season 1.

I assume you're talking about survival instinct? Telltale's game was brilliant.

LisaLee

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

I think the show dragged out the farm too much, but I think the comic missed what could have been a great few issues if it stayed there longer. I think season two would have been good six - eight episodes long, and all of it on the farm, squeeze in the randall story as well and it would be great.

Agreed. Wasn't there an issue with the writers which meant there was a delay with the episodes? Trying to find a link.

krudler

FlyingIrishMan wrote: »

I assume you're talking about survival instinct? Telltale's game was brilliant.

that new one where you play as Daryl? yeah its meant to suck, the point n click type one is absolutely fantastic though, its better than the tv show.

username123

krudler wrote: »

Daryl, Rick, Carl and Michonne are the only worthwhile characters for me right now, Andrea is great in the comic, an absolute dope in the show. I dont mind Glenn, Maggie and Herschel, they don't take up much time.

To be fair I do like Herschel, but only because the guy is a good actor with good screen presence.

silverharp

awsome tactics from Merle, I didnt work out what his diversion with the car was for. And they get me everytime when someone close comes back as a Walker , will they show the slighest hint that they remember their nearest and of course the answer is no.
Overall not a bad series but Im starting not to care if any of them get killed at this stage, Rick is getting boring and there is no other character i'm really rooting for.

username123

silverharp wrote: »

awsome tactics from Merle, I didnt work out what his diversion with the car was for.

Pity he didnt gather a zombie army of thousands then drive his car kamikaze mode through the wall of woodbury leaving a big gap for them to walk through.

Frisbee

I thought the death scene was done amazingly well. Any other show/film would go for the dramatic standing over Merle while he looks straight back up at Daryll and a quick crossbow bolt. Daryll losing the plot made it seem so much more real.

Sad to see Rooker leave the show as he was a great character but felt they did well to tie off his plot line. We see that he knows he's not as hard as he acts and finally even feel some empathy towards him.......

And then he gets shítfaced, blasts some Motorhead and starts capping motherfúckers

Basq

Have skipped this thread but just watching the episode now..

.. in one scene, Merle knocks out and ties up Michonne in the prison.

The next scene, she's conscious and herself and Merle are walking the street. What the hell?!

Someone fire that writer / editor.. either they'd no idea how to get Merle and Michonne un-noticed out of the prison and just skipped it, or they've edited out a scene of too.

Bloody horrible!

pH

Basq wrote: »

Have skipped this thread but just watching the episode now..

.. in one scene, Merle knocks out and ties up Michonne in the prison.

The next scene, she's conscious and herself and Merle are walking the street. What the hell?!

Someone fire that writer / editor.. either they'd no idea how to get Merle and Michonne un-noticed out of the prison and just skipped it, or they've edited out a scene of too.

Bloody horrible!

It's like they're not even trying anymore ... how hard would it have been for them to have written a scene where he gets her to leave the prison with him and then ties her up - instead they serve up that nonsense - he dragged her unconscious with a bag over her head through the gates? And why the bag? So others wouldn't recognize her or so she couldn't see where she was ... neither makes any sense.

That said, the episode was better than the last few, but given the recent low standards that's not saying a whole lot.

krudler

Basq wrote: »

Have skipped this thread but just watching the episode now..

.. in one scene, Merle knocks out and ties up Michonne in the prison.

The next scene, she's conscious and herself and Merle are walking the street. What the hell?!

Someone fire that writer / editor.. either they'd no idea how to get Merle and Michonne un-noticed out of the prison and just skipped it, or they've edited out a scene of too.

Bloody horrible!

I thought my file had skipped a bit or something, whoever uploaded it made a jarring cut from the bit just after knocking out Michonne to them walking along I figured I missed a few seconds of something, made zero sense, and why did he take the bag off her head? why did he even put a bag on her head?!

constitutionus

TBH I've been letting thing's slip recently but last weeks was great and this ep was fantastic !

Don't think there's a girl on the planet that didn't want to hug daryll after that. Brilliant acting . Good to see meryl go out in style . Really wasn't sure what he'd do n I'm glad he got some redemption for himself .

Roll on the finale

sparkthatbled

Someone should cast Michael Rooker as the lead in a show where he plays a badass anti-hero! I love the way he sort of acted like a link to season 1 in places, still calling Rick "officer friendly" etc...

He certainly went out a hero but it's hard to know if the prison group will ever really know what he did for them. We have to assume the governor brought most of his best soldiers to the meet-up/ambush. His best soldiers probably totalled around 15, 20 max. Merle took out 8 guys before they caught him. Ok, one was the kid, but that's still 7 of the governors best dead before the final showdown. It gives the prison a realistic fighting chance.

I don't think it was a big effort at redemption, though. I think it was simply looking out for his brother because he knew his brother would stay at the prison no matter what.

fifi234ie

Why did Glenn take the zombies fingers off?

username123

fifi234ie wrote: »

Why did Glenn take the zombies fingers off?

To get an engagement ring for Maggie.

Rovi

fifi234ie wrote: »

Why did Glenn take the zombies fingers off?

He was too mean to go here:
http://www.mcdowellsjewellers.com/

username123

krudler wrote: »

I thought my file had skipped a bit or something, whoever uploaded it made a jarring cut from the bit just after knocking out Michonne to them walking along I figured I missed a few seconds of something, made zero sense, and why did he take the bag off her head? why did he even put a bag on her head?!

I thought the same, it was a weird edit which made me think I was looking at a mistake.

If everyone has experienced it then clearly it WAS just a bad edit. What was the point of the bag on her head then?

Another thing I found a little odd was when Rick was telling Merle the plan re Michonne (and Merle, of all people, was moralising!), towards the end of that scene they started to play quite jarring music as Merle stared moodily off and Rick walked away, then it cut to the opening credits.

Basq

username123 wrote: »

If everyone has experienced it then clearly it WAS just a bad edit.

To be honest, I think that's how it probably aired.

I think it went to a commercial break after Michonne was knocked out, and look like it came back from a commercial break when Merle was walking the streets with her.

It was very jarring though!

username123

Basq wrote: »

To be honest, I think that's how it probably aired.

I think it went to a commercial break after Michonne was knocked out, and look like it came back from a commercial break when Merle was walking the streets with her.

It was very jarring though!

Oh yeah, thatd make more sense alright.

El Guapo!

Yeah I'd say it was a commercial break alright.
Sometimes editing an American TV show can be difficult, and jumps like that are quite common. Remember, in the states, TV shows would have a lot more ad breaks than we have over here. Sometimes up to about 6 ad breaks per 1 hour show. So editing that seamlessly could be tricky.

Grimebox

I remember there was a cut in a previous episode where it ran into the commercial break for less than half a second and people were debating the meaning of this snippet at length not realising it was the ads

username123

Grimebox wrote: »

I remember there was a cut in a previous episode where it ran into the commercial break for less than half a second and people were debating the meaning of this snippet at length not realising it was the ads

lol, must have missed that (or realised it was the ads and missed the debate)!

sparkthatbled

One small thing irked me, i had assumed that the walkers skulls had gotten particularly soft from about a year of decomposing/being dead, allowing the humans to stab them through the forehead with any old blunt object to hand, in particular Michonne stomping the head of one like a halloween mask... But when Daryl stabbed walker Merle, his skull seemed just as fragile. Clearly they are just making the walkers less of a threat in general, which is disappointing. In order to ever make them as threatening now as they were in season 1 they will have to introduce hordes of 50+

krudler

sparkthatbled wrote: »

One small thing irked me, i had assumed that the walkers skulls had gotten particularly soft from about a year of decomposing/being dead, allowing the humans to stab them through the forehead with any old blunt object to hand, in particular Michonne stomping the head of one like a halloween mask... But when Daryl stabbed walker Merle, his skull seemed just as fragile. Clearly they are just making the walkers less of a threat in general, which is disappointing. In order to ever make them as threatening now as they were in season 1 they will have to introduce hordes of 50+

People are the problem now not the walkers. Look how often they ignore small groups now whereas before 1 was seen as a threat.

username123

krudler wrote: »

People are the problem now not the walkers. Look how often they ignore small groups now whereas before 1 was seen as a threat.

You would think the biggest threat would be disease, all these rotting corpses wandering about spreading cholera and whatever else into the water etc..

listermint

username123 wrote: »

You would think the biggest threat would be disease, all these rotting corpses wandering about spreading cholera and whatever else into the water etc..

They all appear to drink bottled water. So Cholera isnt really an issue.

krudler

username123 wrote: »

You would think the biggest threat would be disease, all these rotting corpses wandering about spreading cholera and whatever else into the water etc..

yeah that's something that was briefly addressed in the eisode with the walker in the well in season 2, which was completely pointless since they had more wells, but anyhoo. You never see anyone complain of lack of food or water either, I know they found tons of supplies in the prison cafeteria that time but it couldn't be that hard to show someone, y'know, eating in a scene.

Grimebox

krudler wrote: »

yeah that's something that was briefly addressed in the eisode with the walker in the well in season 2, which was completely pointless since they had more wells, but anyhoo. You never see anyone complain of lack of food or water either, I know they found tons of supplies in the prison cafeteria that time but it couldn't be that hard to show someone, y'know, eating in a scene.

I've always wondered this, especially when it came to the dispute between Glenn/Maggie and Merle. Surely they eat together at some stage so issues would come to head

username123

krudler wrote: »

yeah that's something that was briefly addressed in the eisode with the walker in the well in season 2, which was completely pointless since they had more wells, but anyhoo. You never see anyone complain of lack of food or water either, I know they found tons of supplies in the prison cafeteria that time but it couldn't be that hard to show someone, y'know, eating in a scene.

They have very occasionally touched off finding good supplies, like the prison canteen or that day they came across all the bottled water on the highway, but given the amount of time that has now passed (its got to be about a year right, if Lori was able to not know who she was pregnant for, have the pregnancy, and then have the baby), you would definitely think food and water was a big issue - surely even some processed stuff that they find will have spoiled by now making the potential pool of available food smaller?

PhiloCypher

username123 wrote: »

They have very occasionally touched off finding good supplies, like the prison canteen or that day they came across all the bottled water on the highway, but given the amount of time that has now passed (its got to be about a year right, if Lori was able to not know who she was pregnant for, have the pregnancy, and then have the baby), you would definitely think food and water was a big issue - surely even some processed stuff that they find will have spoiled by now making the potential pool of available food smaller?

A problem I find is I don't think they ever established the prison as a place worth fighting for, the fences are ****ed, there's a hole in the wall of one of the buildings allowing zombies to roam the halls and they never got the generator working so it's always dark and dank. In the comics we got to see them enjoy some creature comforts before the **** hit the fan so you could understand why they would stay and fight.

Nervous Wreck

Scenario One: Merle knocks out Michonne. <time cut> Merle and Michonne are seen walking away from the prison.

Boards reaction: Omg, I can't believe that. I mean, would it have been soooooooooo hard to show how he managed to get her out of the prison? We're supposed to believe that somehow he managed to just get her out of there? This show is bullshit, I'm seriously considering not watching anymore. I'll probably will though. So I can bitch.

Scenario Two: Merle knocks out Michonne. Merle ties up Michonne and carries her over his back out of a back gate/gap in the fence/freshly cut hole in the fence from the prison Merle and Michonne are seen walking away from the prison.

Boards reaction: Omg, I can't believe that. I mean, they're just dragging it out soooooooooooo much. Did we really need to spend so much time watching Merle tying her up and then sneaking out? We're not a stupid, American audience that has to be spoonfed every little detail. I mean, we can fill in the gaps for ourselves if they skip the little things and just progress the story a little. This show is bullshit, I'm seriously considering not watching anymore. I'll probably will though. So I can bitch.

Grimebox

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Scenario One: Merle knocks out Michonne. <time cut> Merle and Michonne are seen walking away from the prison.

Boards reaction: Omg, I can't believe that. I mean, would it have been soooooooooo hard to show how he managed to get her out of the prison? We're supposed to believe that somehow he managed to just get her out of there? This show is bullshit, I'm seriously considering not watching anymore. I'll probably will though. So I can bitch.

Scenario Two: Merle knocks out Michonne. Merle ties up Michonne and carries her over his back out of a back gate/gap in the fence/freshly cut hole in the fence from the prison Merle and Michonne are seen walking away from the prison.

Boards reaction: Omg, I can't believe that. I mean, they're just dragging it out soooooooooooo much. Did we really need to spend so much time watching Merle tying her up and then sneaking out? We're not a stupid, American audience that has to be spoonfed every little detail. I mean, we can fill in the gaps for ourselves if they skip the little things and just progress the story a little. This show is bullshit, I'm seriously considering not watching anymore. I'll probably will though. So I can bitch.

That's exactly what I thought. The cut was abrupt but completely forgiveable.

The whole hood over her head thing doesn't make sense though. It is even explicitly mentioned by her. Why did he put it over her head? So she wouldn't know where she was going? So the rest of the group wouldn't recognize her if he was spotted? Why leave the hood in that room? Just Daryl would pick up the trail? Leave out that bit and its fine

Hande hoche!

The bag over the head I assumed was a precaution to make it harder for her to get free.

Grimebox

Hande hoche! wrote: »

The bag over the head I assumed was a precaution to make it harder for her to get free.

In the very next scene he is literally goading her to run away

iPink

username123 wrote: »

To get an engagement ring for Maggie.

That was so funny... After he spoke to Hershel I was thinking to myself... How funny would it be if he got her a ring from one of the walkers but Ewwwwwwww gross who would want a zombie ring..?!! And they'd hardly waste air time with that... Then he did it and they did!!! Lol