Black card

harpsman

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYs3YRh55RI

O M G.

This rule is even more farcical than I thought. This video shows a few fouls which are all equally cynical and have the same effect. However if you pull somebody back and they dont fall down or they do fall down but you didnt mean for them to fall down then its only a tick,of which you can get 3 and then ONLY GET A YELLOW CARD.
So basically if youre a forward start practicing your diving and if youre a back start practicing your choke tackles!
This is going to be chaos-dont say I didnt tell you all.

keane2097

harpsman wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYs3YRh55RI

O M G.

This rule is even more farcical than I thought. This video shows a few fouls which are all equally cynical and have the same effect. However if you pull somebody back and they dont fall down or they do fall down but you didnt mean for them to fall down then its only a tick,of which you can get 3 and then ONLY GET A YELLOW CARD.
So basically if youre a forward start practicing your diving and if youre a back start practicing your choke tackles!
This is going to be chaos-dont say I didnt tell you all.

Yeah we've had a few discussions here about how jersey pulling should/shouldn't be added to the list of black card offences. There are arguments for and against, I'm all for it personally.

It's a bit funny that you started this thread almost exactly a year ago and yet seem to have somehow only managed to read the text of the rule now.

davegrohl48

Im not hearing about any chaos with the black card rule. Few refereeing mistakes now n then but no chaos.

keane2097

Realistically the only chaos possible is some players still occasionally getting away with things they were getting away with last year, while in most cases cynical fouling will be reduced and/or punished.

Fireball07

I think it's been a success so far... referees have used yellow and red cards wrong in the past, there's obviously going to be mistakes with the black cards, but I think it's had a positive impact on the game.

grattanspuds

It's been a success in terms of higher scoring, but not if you like physicality in the game. Players are now not attempting any fair shoulder tackles for fear of mistiming them by a millisecond. Also, any inside forward with half a brain can now get their marker black carded by just running across the back and going to ground before the ball comes in, thereby forcing refs who have only half-seen the incident from afar into a decision, which most of the time goes against the defender. Also, in club games in summer, there is no doubt in my mind that we will see clubs targeting the opposing team's best players with tactics such as passing the ball over their head, running straight into the opponent, and falling to the ground feigning a bodycheck.

Overall, worrying IMO.

davegrohl48

grattanspuds wrote: »

It's been a success in terms of higher scoring, but not if you like physicality in the game. Players are now not attempting any fair shoulder tackles for fear of mistiming them by a millisecond. Also, any inside forward with half a brain can now get their marker black carded by just running across the back and going to ground before the ball comes in, thereby forcing refs who have only half-seen the incident from afar into a decision, which most of the time goes against the defender. Also, in club games in summer, there is no doubt in my mind that we will see clubs targeting the opposing team's best players with tactics such as passing the ball over their head, running straight into the opponent, and falling to the ground feigning a bodycheck.

Overall, worrying IMO.

There's a black card for gamesmanship like diving or holding onto the defenders arm n going to ground.
Black card shouldnt affect fair shoulder. Defenders are still adjusting but the refs are looking for deliberate in all these instances. They've specifically focussed on what are accidental versus deliberate fouls.

harpsman

Fireball07 wrote: »

I think it's been a success so far... referees have used yellow and red cards wrong in the past, there's obviously going to be mistakes with the black cards, but I think it's had a positive impact on the game.

I think its a bit early to make a call one way or another as we havent even had 1 senior championship game, and lets face it in GAA the championship is all that matters.
I have issues with the large grey areas between grey,yellow and a tick.
Also one thing that really anoys me about the sport is the situation where a team is winning by 3 points with a few minutes left and they just run down the clock by dragging down their opponents, knowing that the ref will waste time bringing the play back,calling over the fouler,spending 30 seconds booking him(why do they do that?-is it to make them look like a great ref who "talks to the players") and then let the free be taken by which time the defending team have all their men behind the ball and all the momentum is gone.Im worried that the black card will make this even worse.
Lastly,increasing the amount of subs allowed to 6 just gives counties with bigger playing no.s even more of an advantage.

harpsman

grattanspuds wrote: »

It's been a success in terms of higher scoring, but not if you like physicality in the game. Players are now not attempting any fair shoulder tackles for fear of mistiming them by a millisecond. Also, any inside forward with half a brain can now get their marker black carded by just running across the back and going to ground before the ball comes in, thereby forcing refs who have only half-seen the incident from afar into a decision, which most of the time goes against the defender. Also, in club games in summer, there is no doubt in my mind that we will see clubs targeting the opposing team's best players with tactics such as passing the ball over their head, running straight into the opponent, and falling to the ground feigning a bodycheck.

Overall, worrying IMO.

I disagree with most of your points here. There have been a few very high scoring games but my take on that is that its down to everyone trying to ape Dublin and playing with an offensive style-a bit like the Kieran donaghy craze a few years ago.I think you ll find when real matches start scoring will go back to normal,more or less.
But Its a matter of opinion. Your next 2 pints are not a matter of opinion- youre just plain wrong. The black card has nothing to do with physicality, attempts to make a fair shoulder, or hard hits- if its fair its fair, if its not its a free and if its dangerous its a yellow or red card;but not a black.
Also if refs werent giving frees for off the ball fouls when there was no black card theyre not gonna start now.
I do agree with your last oint though-that you will see players trying all sorts of tricks to get men balck carded(are you listening Tyrone:cool:)

grattanspuds

harpsman wrote: »

I disagree with most of your points here. There have been a few very high scoring games but my take on that is that its down to everyone trying to ape Dublin and playing with an offensive style-a bit like the Kieran donaghy craze a few years ago.I think you ll find when real matches start scoring will go back to normal,more or less.
But Its a matter of opinion. Your next 2 pints are not a matter of opinion- youre just plain wrong. The black card has nothing to do with physicality, attempts to make a fair shoulder, or hard hits- if its fair its fair, if its not its a free and if its dangerous its a yellow or red card;but not a black.
Also if refs werent giving frees for off the ball fouls when there was no black card theyre not gonna start now.
I do agree with your last oint though-that you will see players trying all sorts of tricks to get men balck carded(are you listening Tyrone:cool:)

So you're telling me that if 2 lads are running at full pelt, one tries to shoulder the other square on, mistimes it slightly in that the recipient of the shoulder moves a half yard ahead, so the shoulder now looks like a cynical trip from behind, therefore a certain black card. You're telling me that won't happen all through the summer? And refs certainly do blow for tangles between corner backs and corner forwards while the ball is about to be kicked in, it's a speciality of Marty Duffy and David Coldrick especially

harpsman

grattanspuds wrote: »

So you're telling me that if 2 lads are running at full pelt, one tries to shoulder the other square on, mistimes it slightly in that the recipient of the shoulder moves a half yard ahead, so the shoulder now looks like a cynical trip from behind, therefore a certain black card. You're telling me that won't happen all through the summer? And refs certainly do blow for tangles between corner backs and corner forwards while the ball is about to be kicked in, it's a speciality of Marty Duffy and David Coldrick especially

With regard to the first example I dont think you ve really thought out the dynamics of it very well. Shoulders dont really happen between 2 guys at full speed. Anyway a missed shoulder in this case wouldnt really look like a cynical trip.
With regard to the off the ball tangles you might be right- ive a feeling the refs will hedge their bets and just give the free. Is this a black card offense?

bruschi

grattanspuds wrote: »

It's been a success in terms of higher scoring, but not if you like physicality in the game. Players are now not attempting any fair shoulder tackles for fear of mistiming them by a millisecond. Also, any inside forward with half a brain can now get their marker black carded by just running across the back and going to ground before the ball comes in, thereby forcing refs who have only half-seen the incident from afar into a decision, which most of the time goes against the defender. Also, in club games in summer, there is no doubt in my mind that we will see clubs targeting the opposing team's best players with tactics such as passing the ball over their head, running straight into the opponent, and falling to the ground feigning a bodycheck.

Overall, worrying IMO.

grattanspuds wrote: »

So you're telling me that if 2 lads are running at full pelt, one tries to shoulder the other square on, mistimes it slightly in that the recipient of the shoulder moves a half yard ahead, so the shoulder now looks like a cynical trip from behind, therefore a certain black card. You're telling me that won't happen all through the summer? And refs certainly do blow for tangles between corner backs and corner forwards while the ball is about to be kicked in, it's a speciality of Marty Duffy and David Coldrick especially

I'm not sure if you fully understand the black card rule. The main point of the black card, and the implementation of it be refs, is an intentional action by the offender. Not accidental, not manipulated by an opponent, but an intentional act that warrants the card.

there is no black card for shouldering, unless it is blocking a player off the ball, which is not the same as a legal shoulder tackle. a mis timed shoulder tackle is a foul, not a black card offence.

again, a forward running across the path of an opponent manipulating a foul, is not even a foul, thereby not a black card. A ref if he is any good wont make a decision based on only half seeing an incident.

and again, passing the ball over someones head and running into them is not even a free, and definitely not a black card. To get a black card for blocking, you have to move into the direction of the player. If you are in a position, and do not deviate, and the opponent runs into you, that is not a black card offence.

your other example of players running full pelt in the same direction and shouldering? I'm not sure that would even happen really, and again, its down to intent. and tangles between players result in fouls, unless there is a warranted black card offence.


I agree with harpsman as I dont think it will stop cynicism nor time wasting at the end of the game. But, as someone who wasnt altogether convinced by the ruling and how it may help, I have to say I'm starting to warm to it and think that with some more tweaking, it could work. It will cause issues though for small clubs who dont have many subs. I have already seen 2 games where it happened, one game where a clear blcak card offence happened, but the team only had the bare 15 and were being hammered. The ref gave a yellow. It wasnt a red card offence, and if he got a black he would have been sent off. In another game, a team started with 14 players. Black card offence in the first half, and player then effectively sent off. They didnt have the numbers to start the second half then so game was abandoned.

Fr Tod Umptious

Where I think the black card has really worked is that its stopping teams from pulling down players once they loose possession in order to reset their own defense.

Previously if their was a turnover high up the field, the team that lost the ball would foul just so that they could get back into position.

That can't happen anymore

harpsman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Where I think the black card has really worked is that its stopping teams from pulling down players once they loose possession in order to reset their own defense.

Previously if their was a turnover high up the field, the team that lost the ball would foul just so that they could get back into position.

That can't happen anymore

Blatantly dragging somebody to the ground will get a black card. However, wrapping your arms around somebody to hold them up or giving them a little tug in the jersey that causes them to fall wont get a black card-have you watched the video w Pat and David?

harpsman

http://www.livegaelic.com/news/first-black-card-rescinded/
It begins.........

Dont say I didnay warn ya

DDC1990

Are you suggesting this is a bad thing?

Did you see the incident? The referee didn't know the Black Card rule and got it wrong. Griffin pulled Freeman back and Freeman threw himself to the ground. That is not (under the current rules) a Black Card, and therefor the decision was rightfully overturned.

This is very important as down the line if Griffin gets 2 more black cards he will not incur a 1 match suspension for accumulating 3 Black Cards in a season.

keane2097

DDC1990 wrote: »

Are you suggesting this is a bad thing?

Did you see the incident? The referee didn't know the Black Card rule and got it wrong. Griffin pulled Freeman back and Freeman threw himself to the ground. That is not (under the current rules) a Black Card, and therefor the decision was rightfully overturned.

This is very important as down the line if Griffin gets 2 more black cards he will not incur a 1 match suspension for accumulating 3 Black Cards in a season.

The positive here is the CHC are telling the world that Freeman dived. If this is the general form going forward it's a discouragement to divers in itself.

The sooner they make diving a black card the better of course.

Dirty Dingus McGee

A jersey pull of any kind should be a black card.This needs to be amended ASAP. Until this is amended I have no problem with any forward exagerrating/diving to get a defender a black card if he is pulling a forwards jersey.

harpsman

DDC1990 wrote: »

Are you suggesting this is a bad thing?

Did you see the incident? The referee didn't know the Black Card rule and got it wrong. Griffin pulled Freeman back and Freeman threw himself to the ground. That is not (under the current rules) a Black Card, and therefor the decision was rightfully overturned.

This is very important as down the line if Griffin gets 2 more black cards he will not incur a 1 match suspension for accumulating 3 Black Cards in a season.

As it happens I did see the incident,but so what even if I hadnt?
The point is the rule is very badly designed for reasons that I pointed out in an earlier post, and that Dirty Dingus reiterated above.
I think this is the first of many appeals and controversies due to the bad design of the rule.

harpsman

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

A jersey pull of any kind should be a black card.This needs to be amended ASAP. Until this is amended I have no problem with any forward exagerrating/diving to get a defender a black card if he is pulling a forwards jersey.

Not exactly how I would have worded it but the rule states you dont get justice if you stay on your feet-you couldnt make it up

harpsman

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/football-referees-hauled-in-for-emergency-meeting-30306788.html
So 2 weeks in and we have an emergency refs meeting.

GAAman

harpsman wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/football-referees-hauled-in-for-emergency-meeting-30306788.html
So 2 weeks in and we have an emergency refs meeting.

Came here to post that, presumably (See hopefully) there will be some boll**kin give to ref's who have been transparently cowardly to enforce the rules. I was at the derry/donegal game and I had heard McQuillan was the ref, didn't know Duffy was linesman until I got there, between them it was laughable really.

However it is just as bad at club level here, at a match 2 weeks ago one lad was fouled with THREE black card offenses in one run (Dragged down to ground, fella who dragged him down grabbed his ankle when he got up to run and being stopped on a 2nd run) and the ref gave a free out.....

I was an opponent of the black card when it was first brought up, I now see if it is used properly it could be good for the game. However it is not being used/enforced properly at club or county level and I hope this changes really soon!

zetecescort

Should the black card be brought into hurling? 2 forwards pulled to the ground yesterday when through on goal. Penalties correctly given.

Is the penalty enough of a punishment or should the black card be brought in.

Dirty Dingus McGee

zetecescort wrote: »

Should the black card be brought into hurling? 2 forwards pulled to the ground yesterday when through on goal. Penalties correctly given.

Is the penalty enough of a punishment or should the black card be brought in.

Cynical fouling is an issue for football it doesn't exist in hurling.;)

harpsman

More black card nonsense imo tonight. Fella deliberately fouled in front of goal. No card. Emmet Bolton commits the most harmless foul ive seen all year and gets black card. Back to the drawin board lads-like i said 6 months ago:).

DDC1990

harpsman wrote: »

More black card nonsense imo tonight. Fella deliberately fouled in front of goal. No card. Emmet Bolton commits the most harmless foul ive seen all year and gets black card. Back to the drawin board lads-like i said 6 months ago:).

Agree that Bolton should have got the Black Card earlier, but the second one was a clear black card. 2 hands around Gollogly and pulled him down. Gollogly initiates the contact but Bolton dragged him down.

DDC1990

harpsman wrote: »

More black card nonsense imo tonight. Fella deliberately fouled in front of goal. No card. Emmet Bolton commits the most harmless foul ive seen all year and gets black card. Back to the drawin board lads-like i said 6 months ago:).

Agree that Bolton should have got the Black Card earlier, but the second one was a clear black card. 2 hands around Gollogly and pulled him down. Gollogly initiates the contact but Bolton dragged him down.

howiya

The list of black card offences is too technical and it is not a punishment for fouling a player that is through on goal

harpsman

DDC1990 wrote: »

Agree that Bolton should have got the Black Card earlier, but the second one was a clear black card. 2 hands around Gollogly and pulled him down. Gollogly initiates the contact but Bolton dragged him down.

Oh you re absolutely right-the 2nd one was by the letter of the law a black card. Youre wrong about the 1st one though- theres nowhere in the black card rule that stipulates one for that particular foul. Thats my whole point- the first one should be punished but for me I wouldnt send a man off for the 2nd one- personally i thought it was an instinctive grab as he was falling and Gollogly was falling anyway so there was nothing to gain from pulling him down.

zetecescort

Cork player gets a black card for pulling down a player (correct decision) but how many off the ball runs were blocked by Mayo players yet nothing done, not even a free awarded. Typical GAA rule change, enforced strictly during the league but as the summer progresses it is forgotten about

zetecescort

Has this been abandoned?

2 games today on tv and countless black card incidents. ref had to consult on one for a Monaghan player for a tackle the commentator reckoned wouldn't have been out of place in Rome yesterday. both games turned to ****e because the refs couldn't enforce the rules and players knew they'd get away with cynical fouling.

harpsman

See the black card(yes back on my hobby horse) working a treat- for sides who want to waste as much time as possible with a couple of minutes to go. Galway used it to full effect on Sunday.

But Im sure we'll have to put up with this for about 5 years before its dispensed with-hopefully for something better, but knowing how these things tend to work, possibly not!!

Stoner

I like the black card, it was painful last year listening to everyone shout every drag back was a black card.
But we've seen some great examples of it being used for trips this and the drag back has been defined.
Very few for the body checking after the ball has been released though, has there been a high profile one some Richie feeney?
TBH just like yellows and reds there are always cards that shoul have been given, black cards have settled in and refs are no more or less guilty of not giving them as they are yellows or reds.

I think they should add pretending to be hit in the face etc and diving as black card offenses.

For the last ten minutes black card offences could be red cards ?

Also where ever video evidence can be used it should be.

Fr Tod Umptious

harpsman wrote: »

See the black card(yes back on my hobby horse) working a treat- for sides who want to waste as much time as possible with a couple of minutes to go. Galway used it to full effect on Sunday.

But Im sure we'll have to put up with this for about 5 years before its dispensed with-hopefully for something better, but knowing how these things tend to work, possibly not!!

As I said on the Sunday Game thread the black card is not as effective in the very late stages of the game as it is earlier on.
And I don't think anyone can dispute its effectiveness overall.

But as another poster suggested, tack on a 21 yard free along with the black card in the closing stages and that I'll learn them.

K-9

Body checking definitely seems to be down and that's great, was a blight on the game. Holding onto the ball after a free is awarded against you should also be included!

I suppose the problem with any rule is somebody will find the loophole in it or go against the spirit of the law.

Jayop

It's being used tactically now at the end of games to waste time. If you're a point or two up with a couple of minutes to go then getting a black card is great. The ref has to book you and you take as long as you can to get off. The next lad is ready to come back on after the next play. It's no punishment at all late in the game.

After the 50th minute they shouldn't be allowed to bring on a sub imo.

keane2097

Jayop wrote: »

It's being used tactically now at the end of games to waste time. If you're a point or two up with a couple of minutes to go then getting a black card is great. The ref has to book you and you take as long as you can to get off. The next lad is ready to come back on after the next play. It's no punishment at all late in the game.

After the 50th minute they shouldn't be allowed to bring on a sub imo.

In surely 90% of matches a team will have no subs left to be messing around with in the last couple of minutes getting deliberate black cards.

If a team has somehow managed to get to injury time a point or two ahead without using all their subs they'd probably be a lot happier if there was no black cards and the ref spent the same amount of time dishing out a yellow only for them to take the guy off for a sub as soon as the ref had finished all that rigmarole.

In the majority of cases a team will have no subs left at the end of a game and will be punished by losing a man for every black card they get, which is obviously a much better punishment than a meaningless yellow card if we ditched the black again.

Not sure what people expect to happen in this situation. There's always going to be time wasting.

This idea that teams are "using" the black card to waste time is dumb as dirt, you can do the same thing with a yellow if there's no black cards.

Jayop

keane2097 wrote: »

In surely 90% of matches a team will have no subs left to be messing around with in the last couple of minutes getting deliberate black cards.

If a team has somehow managed to get to injury time a point or two ahead without using all their subs they'd probably be a lot happier if there was no black cards and the ref spent the same amount of time dishing out a yellow only for them to take the guy off for a sub as soon as the ref had finished all that rigmarole.

In the majority of cases a team will have no subs left at the end of a game and will be punished by losing a man for every black card they get, which is obviously a much better punishment than a meaningless yellow card if we ditched the black again.

Not sure what people expect to happen in this situation. There's always going to be time wasting.

This idea that teams are "using" the black card to waste time is dumb as dirt, you can do the same thing with a yellow if there's no black cards.

Dumb as dirt? Nice.

1) I think I've only ever once seen a player being black carded when there's no subs left so your assertion that " 90% of matches a team will have no subs left" is just plain wrong.

2) That in turn makes a nonsense out of the rest of your post. The point about using the black to time waste is because you;
a) Get to stop an attack
b) takes longer for the ref to issue a black
c) Have to leave the pitch
d) The new player coming on takes a few seconds

3) It's not about replacing other forms of time wasting, it's just another one. Players are now willing to 'take one for the team' in the closing minutes because there's no real punishment.

Jayop

This journo must be dumb as dirt too eh? McGeeney too said it so he must be a proper moron?

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/counties-learning-to-use-black-ops-to-manipulate-rules-31374578.html

Counties learning to use 'black ops' to manipulate rules

Donnchadh Boyle Twitter


For the first 70 minutes of action on Sunday at the Athletic Grounds, Galway and Armagh went at each other hard and fair. In that time there was one yellow card and it was even nervy at times as both sides faced the prospect of seeing their season come to a shuddering halt in their first season under new management.
But it was never cynical.

Then three minutes injury time were announced and proceedings took a new twist. Armagh had pulled back to within a goal and had kept Galway scoreless for more than 20 minutes as the visitors yearned for the final whistle. With their summer on the line, Armagh went in search of a goal.

Kevin Walsh's side did what any team would do and killed the clock and any Armagh momentum at every available opportunity.
First Gary Sice took a black card for dragging down Jamie Clarke. There was still plenty to do for the Crossmaglen man to have even a good point chance but Sice was taking no chances. But the move was cut down before it had really started.

At this stage, tired minds and nerves meant mistake followed blunder but Galway weren't going to be caught. Within roughly a minute of Sice's indiscretion, the Tribesmen picked up a second black card.
Again there was no obvious danger to the Galway goal with play well out the field but it didn't matter as Cathal Sweeney dragged down an opponent.

And as was the case with Sice's black card, precious seconds were eaten up as referee David Gough carried out the necessary paperwork.
Eventually, the Meath official brought things to a close and they saw out the game.
It's likely the Tribesmen would have gotten over the line anyway as they didn't look like conceding a goal for most of the game.
But the closing minutes served to show that teams are using the black card sanction in ways it was never intended.
Instead of punishing a team engaging in cynical play, the black card rule actually helped Galway as they nervously stepped into the next round.

The Tribesmen had been on the receiving end of something similar in their Connacht Championship clash with Mayo when Lee Keegan simply refused to give up possession and killed the clock as they looked to chase the game. They had learned.
Armagh manager Kieran McGeeney didn't have much issue with the way the Connacht side closed out the game afterwards but clearly feels the rule book needs work if it is to be effective.

"We have a game of half rules. You can't change (that)," he said afterwards.
The use of the black card rule in that way is at odds with what it appeared to be achieving when first introduced.
After being brought in for the start of the 2014 competitions, scoring rates in last year's league increased by an average of four points as players refused to run the risk of having precious game-time cut short.

But as the stakes rise with the end of a game in sight, players have been shown to be more willing to take one 'for the team'.
Figures show that roughly one in three black cards are shown after the clock has passed the 60-minute mark.
The 18 knock-out games in this year's Championship have borne 11 black cards. Four of those have come in the last 20 minutes but those figures are skewed as 11 of those matches were won by margins of seven points or more.

In those scenarios there's no need to commit a black card offence as the matches were all but settled coming into the home straight.
And as the rule has taken time to bed in, teams have become more familiar with what they can get away with. In last year's league, three teams picked up no blacks at all. In 2015, every county picked up at least one.
And as the summer wears on and the stakes get higher, players are likely to become more willing to accept a black card in order to keep their summer alive.

keane2097

I'll come back later when you've calmed down :rolleyes:

You might have a think about the difference that having no such thing as a black card would have made to the above scenario.

bruschi

Jayop wrote: »

Dumb as dirt? Nice.

1) I think I've only ever once seen a player being black carded when there's no subs left so your assertion that " 90% of matches a team will have no subs left" is just plain wrong.

2) That in turn makes a nonsense out of the rest of your post. The point about using the black to time waste is because you;
a) Get to stop an attack
b) takes longer for the ref to issue a black
c) Have to leave the pitch
d) The new player coming on takes a few seconds

3) It's not about replacing other forms of time wasting, it's just another one. Players are now willing to 'take one for the team' in the closing minutes because there's no real punishment.

not wanting to put words in Keanes mouth, but the above and the article prove his point. Teams arent using the black card to be cynical or time waste, its just that the black card is not stopping these things which was its primary objective. In your time scenario above, the ref generally does not waste time for the player to go off, nor does he wait for the sub to come on.

I dont think teams are objectively saying that by having the black card is to their advantage, moreso that by getting black carded is not a sufficient punishment to stop the cynical or timewasting, and regardless of it is there or not in its current guise, you will still have the cynicism and time wasting regardless.

harpsman

keane2097 wrote: »

In surely 90% of matches a team will have no subs left to be messing around with in the last couple of minutes getting deliberate black cards.

If a team has somehow managed to get to injury time a point or two ahead without using all their subs they'd probably be a lot happier if there was no black cards and the ref spent the same amount of time dishing out a yellow only for them to take the guy off for a sub as soon as the ref had finished all that rigmarole.

In the majority of cases a team will have no subs left at the end of a game and will be punished by losing a man for every black card they get, which is obviously a much better punishment than a meaningless yellow card if we ditched the black again.

Not sure what people expect to happen in this situation. There's always going to be time wasting.

This idea that teams are "using" the black card to waste time is dumb as dirt, you can do the same thing with a yellow if there's no black cards.

I dont think your statistic is correct-Id say youd find that 90% of teams have at least 1 sub left with 5 minutes to go, not too many teams bring on 6 subs.

Your last paragraph is missing the point-its not just the getting of the black card that wastes time, its the dragging the player in possession to the ground and then holding on to him or the ball or trying to provoke a scuffle that wastes the time.

Yes there will always be timewasting but for example 2 Galway players committed blatant pull downs on Sunday for which they were essentially rewarded-if they were punished with a ten minute sin bin then being reduced to 13 men is alot closer to proportionate punishment than bringing on a sub. Personally Id throw in a 13 yard free as well-unless Dessie Dolans the free taker:D

harpsman

Stoner wrote: »

I like the black card, it was painful last year listening to everyone shout every drag back was a black card.
But we've seen some great examples of it being used for trips this and the drag back has been defined.
Very few for the body checking after the ball has been released though, has there been a high profile one some Richie feeney?
TBH just like yellows and reds there are always cards that shoul have been given, black cards have settled in and refs are no more or less guilty of not giving them as they are yellows or reds.

I think they should add pretending to be hit in the face etc and diving as black card offenses.

For the last ten minutes black card offences could be red cards ?

Also where ever video evidence can be used it should be.

Neil McGee against Dublin and in both cases I thought the punishment was unduly severe for very minor infringements.

Boom__Boom

If there was a hooter system, where the game clock stopped for any stoppages in play, then the advantage of taking a black card late on would be much less effective.

Unfortunately Central Council killed this idea saying a hooter system was unworkable/impractical, which makes me wonder if any of them have ever seen a game of ladies football.

zetecescort

Boom__Boom wrote: »

If there was a hooter system, where the game clock stopped for any stoppages in play, then the advantage of taking a black card late on would be much less effective.

Unfortunately Central Council killed this idea saying a hooter system was unworkable/impractical, which makes me wonder if any of them have ever seen a game of ladies football.

reason given was a fear teams would run down the clock playing keep ball in their own half

Boom__Boom

zetecescort wrote: »

reason given was a fear teams would run down the clock playing keep ball in their own half

And that doesn't happen at all in games now :rolleyes:

It was a terrible decision and will continue to be terrible until sense prevails and it is rectified.

Jayop

bruschi wrote: »

not wanting to put words in Keanes mouth, but the above and the article prove his point. Teams arent using the black card to be cynical or time waste, its just that the black card is not stopping these things which was its primary objective. In your time scenario above, the ref generally does not waste time for the player to go off, nor does he wait for the sub to come on.

I dont think teams are objectively saying that by having the black card is to their advantage, moreso that by getting black carded is not a sufficient punishment to stop the cynical or timewasting, and regardless of it is there or not in its current guise, you will still have the cynicism and time wasting regardless.

Of course it takes longer to black card a player than it does to give a yellow.

harpsman

Boom__Boom wrote: »

And that doesn't happen at all in games now :rolleyes:

It was a terrible decision and will continue to be terrible until sense prevails and it is rectified.

Agreed 100%. Id heard that they were delaying it for a year to test it but sounds like they've ditched it. Pity. think it would be much better if everyone knew how long left and ref could stop clock when giving lectures/issuing cards etc

keeponhurling

zetecescort wrote: »

reason given was a fear teams would run down the clock playing keep ball in their own half

But sure that's legitimate play

Jayop

It's not pretty but it's a matter for another rule change.