An all-Belgian team, how would they fare?

The_Kew_Tour

I would not mind few Belgium players on Irish side.

Could live with us being few levels below the Spain's of this world then.

My head hurts.

GLaDOS

Wouldn't expect too much from them for the next world cup, semi finals would be a good achievement. It's what they achieve over the next 5 years will be interesting. Lukaku is only 19 and could most likely prove to be a huge player for them over the next couple of seasons.

Wolf Club

They have an incredible amount of talent, but I could imagine a situation occurring where they have too many options in one position and not enough in others, and therefore end up having to play players out of position to accommodate everony. For instance, having a defence of Alderwerald-Kompany-Vertonghen-Vermaelan, while excellent on paper, means playing 4 defenders who primarily are CBs. Obviously having versatile defenders is very useful, but having to use them because you don't have specialist full backs is not.

I'd also wonder about Hazard's mentally and how that might affect the team. Isn't he known to have thrown a few tantrums while playing for the national team?

Augmerson

All-Belgian team? Am I missing something here? They are all Belgians?

Rekop dog

The up and coming youths in France should be far more feared and talked about than the Belgians. The thought of Pogba Varane Zouma and Niang in a few years is frightening, already reached a trully unbelievable physical level for teenagers, not to mind their impressive technical abilities.

Rekop dog

Rekop dog wrote: »

The up and coming youths in France should be far more feared and talked about than the Belgians. The thought of Pogba Varane Zouma and Niang in a few years is frightening, already reached a trully unbelievable physical level for teenagers, not to mind their impressive technical abilities.

Another option for Wallonia could be to become part of France rather than go independent and apparently the French would be open to it given the cultural ties. Flanders themselves could become a political entity on their own or perhaps join with Holland but its strongest party the NVA are strong advocates for an independent Flanders

The disagreement with the two provinces springs from a dispute regarding the redistribution of wealth all over Belgium. Wallonia thinks they are being neglected whilst Flanders see Wallonia as a province contributing little but asking for continuous handouts.

Its an unhealthy marriage and its hard to fathom how they ever worked as a nation state given the cultural differences.


Anyone know what would happen to the Kingdom status? would it be dissolved or become the Kingdom of Flanders (& Brussels?) ?
Indeed what would become of Brussels in all of this? (itself an independent province albeit enclaved within Flanders). Would it become a Monaco type micro-state enclaved within Flanders?

Apologies as my contribution is more for the politics forum but you can see how might impact on the football side of things

RasTa

Didn't Wales have a great team on paper back in the 90's but never qualified for anything.

thebaz

they'd never beat an All Ireland team :eek:

Jarrod

Does anyone who backed them to win the World Cup actually believe they will or did you take long odds knowing that they're likely to qualify and you're going to lay them when the price shortens?

I don't think they've a chance of winning the World Cup. Yeah they've an impressive team, compared to recent Belgian standards but is it as good as Germany, Spain or a host of other countries? Probably not.

Considering that they didn't qualify for the Euros, they clearly haven't delivered anything. Of their 'golden generation' Kompany is 26, Vertonghen 25, Vermaelen 27, Dembele and Fellaini both 25. Realistically this WC is their best chance at a WC, possibly 2018 but anything could happen between now and then.

Euro 2016 is obviously their best chance to win something. Do I think they'll do it? No. It reminds me of the hype surrounding Russian football in the mid to late noughties, albeit with better players.

764dak

It's funny how people bring up cultural or political issues when a European team plays poorly but never when a non-European team underperform.

Rekop dog

If most of their players were based outside the premier league there wouldn't be anything like the same hype. You can even tell by the players op excluded that people have a ridiculous prem bias(or lack of knowledge of football outside that league) when analysing these sort of things.

klose

A very good squad on paper but also very young for a national side, may have to wait a few more years to see the best of them

Courtois 20
Mignolet 24
Alderweireld 24
Vertonghen 25
Kompany 26
Vermaelen 27
Fellaini 25
Witsel 24
Dembele 25
De bruyne 21
Mirallas 25
Mertens 25
Hazard 22
Lukaku 19
Benteke 22

Obviously there is more in their squad but im assuming thats the base of their strongest xi which is very young for a national side. Perhaps euro 2016 will be their time to shine?

roanoke

FWIW, here is the representation from each league (in minutes and total percentage) for Belgium over their 5 qualifying games.

I've just defined a given players league as whatever league they currently play in so the actual values might be slightly different.

As can be seen the Prem certainly is the number #1 representative for Belgium but it's not as complete as some might imagine.

==
1. England 2682 54.18% (Vertonghen 450, Vermaelen 450, Hazard 369, Dembele 362, Kompany 360, Benteke 352, Fellani 203, Mirallas 92, Lukaku 44

2. Holland 717 14.48% (Alderweireld 270, Mertens 262, Chadli 185)

3. Russia 450 9.09% (Witzel 450)

3. Spain 450 9.09% (Courtois 450)

5. Germany 401 8.10% (De Bruyne 311, Van Buyten 90)

6. Belgium 183 3.70% (Gillet 180, Ilombe 3)

7. Portugal 67 1.35% (Defour 67)

aramush

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

They're coming together at the right time, can't see them going past maybe Semis in competition though.

It's like England in 2004 iirc, when they supposedly had a team full of the best players in the world but nothing materialised from that.

My advice to you would be stop listening to the English media.

OnTheCouch

The original question is very Premier League orientated. In the team the OP suggested I believe only Dries Mertens does not play in England. I suppose it is a natural tendency for people to imagine how good a team can be when a traditional non-stellar nation starts producing lots of good players at the same time, especially when they turn up in the league that gets by far the most attention in this country. This is why the question has been asked about Belgium, instead of Premier-based Brazil, Argentina, France or even Dutch players.

The problem I see is that when it comes to genuine world-class talents, this Belgian side currently really only has Kompany and probably Hazard by this stage. There are maybe up to ten players then who are potentially outstanding, but about whom you could not put yet in the former category. In this group I would place De Bruyne, Courtois, Lukaku, Benteke, Witsel, Vertonghen, Mertens, Mignolet and a couple of others. There are also even younger talents coming through, such as Dennis Praet, Charly Musonda, Andreas Pereira, Adnan Januzaj (although I think the latter may not want to play for Belgium even though he was born there). However, all these players are still in the 'potential' category rather than the finished article. This means for the moment, Montenegro would have the same amount of premium players, which may put things into perspective.

Furthermore, Daniel Van Buyten is the only Belgian player left in the Champions League last eight. Which may indicate something.

Another important point that was made earlier was that they are lacking in certain positions, which is key to a well-balanced team. Jan Vertonghen and Toby Alderweireld are very competent centre backs, but in my opinion do not have the required positional sense to play full back at the highest level. Therefore, they are always going to struggle at the back unless they find some good players in this area, or if Anthony Vanden Borre can get his head sorted out. I believe they also lack a real predatory striker, Lukaku and Benteke are very effective forward players, but again I don't think they have the real striker's killer instinct, although they may prove me wrong. In addition, even when a smallish nation population-wise has a golden generation, there will almost certainly be a few positions where they are weak, as the numbers simply do not exist in comparison to much more populous countries.

I also believe Kevin De Bruyne, who gets significantly less publicity in the media then some of the above, again perhaps because he is not playing in England this year, is the most important player in the Belgium team. It is no coincidence in my opinion that when he has started playing regularly for the side, their performances have improved immeasureably, as he provides a real creative input into the side, possesses a fierce shot and can provide a killer pass. He is also a terrific worker. All this and he still only looks about 15! Chelsea would be mad to not try and get him back next season I think.

So to conclude, the team is still in the process of growing and only the next few years will tell us how far they can actually go.

PhlegmyMoses

Rekop dog wrote: »

If most of their players were based outside the premier league there wouldn't be anything like the same hype. You can even tell by the players op excluded that people have a ridiculous prem bias(or lack of knowledge of football outside that league) when analysing these sort of things.

You have made this point multiple times in similar threads on here as though everyone should be surprised that the vast majority of people posting on an Irish based board support and know more about Premier League teams. It's great that you take an interest in other leagues and all, but spare us the lecture.

764dak

Rekop dog wrote: »

If most of their players were based outside the premier league there wouldn't be anything like the same hype. You can even tell by the players op excluded that people have a ridiculous prem bias(or lack of knowledge of football outside that league) when analysing these sort of things.

Most of the players have moved to England recently and I've heard the hype about Belgium for quite a number of years now. A few years ago I was surprised that there wasn't a lot of Belgian players in England and then all of a sudden many started being in demand in England.

Jam-Fly

carlop wrote: »

It's a very good side and as mentioned would be better with Courtouis in goals and possibly Witsel somewhere.

However I suspect the national team will suffer from some internal division along ethnic lines, a bit similar to the Dutch but with the added caveat of Walloon and Flemish.

out of interest, what Dutch divide is this? I wasn't aware of any cultural/ethnic divide in the Dutch squad.


They're a good squad, I think the cultural divide thing is a actually a personal thing. Some squads let it affect them due to the people in the squad, other squads it's a non-issue, the size of the cultural divide is almost irrelevant imo. Serbia & Montenegro wasn't even a unified country at the time of the 2006 but apparently the national squad was very unified and 'nationality' wasn't an issue (they didn't win a game in that tournament but by all accounts, cultural divide wasn't the reason!). Then you look at a team like the France national team, don't think there's any big cultural divides there but they're still the biggest joke of a disconnected squad going. Again, the reason imo being personal and personnel. A good manager and a good set of personalities and any ethnic or cultural issues will be a non-issue imo.

As far as quality goes, it is quite exciting how many really good young players they have. And it's not just like it's a decent bit of youth in the team, Lukaku, Hazard and Courtois could genuinely become the best players in their position in the world (don't think this is too much of a stretch) and the likes of Kompany and Dembele (who are a bit older) are world class players imo.

They could easily win something. People seem to think you have to flawless to win something, you don't. The divide between Spain and everyone else at the last three tournaments has admittedly been exceptional, but before that; Italy, Greece, Brazil, before the tournament, they weren't heavily fancied. So they definitely have the potential and quality to win something imo. If they come together well and are managed well, I see no reason why they aren't in with a genuine shout of winning something this generation.

mike65

Jam-Fly wrote: »

out of interest, what Dutch divide is this? I wasn't aware of any cultural/ethnic divide in the Dutch squad.

Race!

That and the fact the typical Dutch national footballer famously (though not on this thread it seems) can start an argument in an empty room.

Jam-Fly

mike65 wrote: »

Race!

That and the fact the typical Dutch national footballer famously (though not on this thread it seems) can start an argument in an empty room.

oh ok, wasn't sure if it was literally just the race of players or if there was something similar to Spain or Belgium I wasn't aware of!

Ya I also agree with the typical Dutch footballer comment. That's why I think it's more of a personality issue rather than any genuine 'cultural differences'.

shamrock55

They wouldnt score enough goals thats for sure a top 6 finish in the prem at best id say

event

Are Belgium the international version of Dortmund, the team everyone in a few years will claim to have always followed, the hipster team?

ush

Wonder what language they speak to each other.

inforfun

Chadli> Mertens.
Mertens never performs for a team in difficulties or against opponents of similar strength.

Alderweireld only looks good next to Vertonghen.

Said it before but despite all the talent they have, they have 2 big weak spots; left and right backs, they dont have them.
The back 4 they play are all central defenders. that will bite them in the ass as soon as they run into the better teams at a WC.

mike65 wrote: »

Race!

That and the fact the typical Dutch national footballer famously (though not on this thread it seems) can start an argument in an empty room.

That is so 1996. The trio of Kluivert/Seedorf/Davids behaving like rap stars do nowadays of course had to lead to a mess. nothing to do so much with race, all to do with behaviour.

And yes, Dutch people are never shy of an argument. "Befehl ist befehl" doesnt work on the Dutch. There will always be 1 question coming: Why?

And i know... i am one of them

Jelle1880

Worked pretty ok against the Dutch... :pac:

batistuta9

inforfun wrote: »

And yes, Dutch people are never shy of an argument. "Befehl ist befehl" doesnt work on the Dutch. There will always be 1 question coming: Why?

And i know... i am one of them

Are you from Rotterdam?

inforfun

batistuta9 wrote: »

Are you from Rotterdam?

Yes indeed.
Signature gave it away i suppose?

EdenHazard

Wait from the OP, did he mean how would they fare in the EPL? Its the only thing that makes sense, even tho Meertens is there for some reason

Hulk Hands

ROCKMAN wrote: »

friend has them backed Each Way for the world cup and also backed them to win next Euro's

Chances are he's a mug because they're a ridiculous price. Belgium and Argentina next year are likely going to be the 'Germany of Euro 2012'. I.e. The fashionable alternative that everyone backs at odds that are way way too short. I can see one of them being the mug punt of 2014, just as Germany was the mug punt of 2012.

roanoke

EdenHazard wrote: »

Wait from the OP, did he mean how would they fare in the EPL? Its the only thing that makes sense, even tho Meertens is there for some reason

I think his original question was "If the Belgium national team (and whatever players it has, regardless of league) was in the Prem, how high would they finish?"

I don't think he was trying to make a "Belgian Premier League XI". It's just that he didn't appear to know many of the other players.

Zatman

think Belgium are being ridiculously overhyped at the moment. Have a basis of a good squad but hardly have any squad depth, no full backs and Kompany has had an average season and Vermaelen has been found out at Arsenal that Wenger finally dropped him.
I remember the euro 2012 playoffs and everybody on here was saying they would wipe the floor with ireland yet didnt even make the play-offs

be shocked if they even got to quarter finals in World Cup

Jelle1880

Zatman wrote: »

think Belgium are being ridiculously overhyped at the moment. Have a basis of a good squad but hardly have any squad depth, no full backs and Kompany has had an average season and Vermaelen has been found out at Arsenal that Wenger finally dropped him.
I remember the euro 2012 playoffs and everybody on here was saying they would wipe the floor with ireland yet didnt even make the play-offs

be shocked if they even got to quarter finals in World Cup

For a team that hasn't even qualified since 2002 the quarter finals would be seen as a massive success.

That Hazard fella is quite good

Zatman

would be a great success but some people mainly non-Belgians are massively over hyping them and could be in for a shock. Was same with Chile in 2010

batistuta9

inforfun wrote: »

Yes indeed.
Signature gave it away i suppose?

not really, i didn't actually notice it earlier but don't people all over Zuid Holland support Feyenoord?

anyway, i misread & misinterpreted what you said before, I thought that after you being on about the confrontations in the dutch squads, then saying "And i know... i am one of them "

that this was you referencing something I heard about people from Rotterdam - that they're very clannish & have the us versus them mentality
- no one likes us, we don't care
Not sure how true it is though but was told by a guy who lived there & he said it was a tough city

So i thought you were saying that the guys from Rotterdam & the rest mightn't get on
and asked were you from Rotterdam because of "i am one of them" comment

inforfun

batistuta9 wrote: »

not really, i didn't actually notice it earlier but don't people all over Zuid Holland support Feyenoord?

anyway, i misread & misinterpreted what you said before, I thought that after you being on about the confrontations in the dutch squads, then saying "And i know... i am one of them "

that this was you referencing something I heard about people from Rotterdam - that they're very clannish & have the us versus them mentality
- no one likes us, we don't care
Not sure how true it is though but was told by a guy who lived there & he said it was a tough city

So i thought you were saying that the guys from Rotterdam & the rest mightn't get on
and asked were you from Rotterdam because of "i am one of them" comment

I am one of them >>>> just about the nationality, all Dutch are capable of doing that and do it a lot.

There are still fans running around with that slogan (nobody likes us...) but at the moment everybody in the Netherlands, apart from the supporters of the 4 other clubs in the running, want Feyenoord to win the championship. And i think even the supporters of the 4 other teams would like Feyenoord to win, if their own team doesnt do it. At this moment Feyenoord really is the national teddy bear.

We are not that bad in Rotterdam, we are just straight to the point and call bull ****, bull ****.

2 genuine Rotterdammers having a conversation > people outside the city think we are having a big fat argument that can only lead to punches being thrown.

Anyway Belgium....

batistuta9

yeah Belgium I think they'll end up in the play off position...

June 7th - belgium will beat serbia , croatia beat scotland, both are playing at home

September 6th - Serbia will at least draw with Croatia in Belgrade, belgium will win in scotland

october 11 - croatia will beat belgium in croatia

october 15 - belgium will beat wales, croatia will win in scotland

so they'll lose top stop by a point or on the H2H to croatia.

they'd finish 6th - 9th (inclusive) in the PL

BOHtox

Next do an All Flemish team!

BhoscaCapall

Kess73 wrote: »

No Witsel, Courtois, Defour, or Alderweireld?

Remember if they don't play in the Sky Sports Premier League they don't exist :rolleyes:

dd972

Shouldn't this thread be en Francais en ook in Vlaams for authenticity?

Always liked the Belgians, very decent side back in the 80's in the heyday of Eric Gerets, Enzo Scifo and Jan Ceulemans.

Shame the way big money has altered football for smaller nations Anderlecht and Standard Liege used to always reach the latter stages of the Euro tournaments.

dd972

dd972 wrote: »

Shouldn't this thread be en Francais en ook in Vlaams for authenticity?

Always liked the Belgians, very decent side back in the 80's in the heyday of Eric Gerets, Enzo Scifo and Jan Ceulemans.

Shame the way big money has altered football for smaller nations Anderlecht and Standard Liege used to always reach the latter stages of the Euro tournaments.

As later evidence showed, the ironic thing is that Anderlecht thought to throw money at an 'obstacle' back in a UEFA cup semi against Forest in the 80s

No but on a serious note Belgium have declined since the late 90s and have only began to resurge in recent times. They had big physical men in their pomp but i notice they now seem to have an eye for a Hazard or a Mirallas type of player