Free iPads for TD's and Senators.. Straw/Camel.

o1s1n

dulpit wrote: »

OP/etc - are you pissed that the TDs get telephones/computers too?

I think the objection is that they are more of a toy/gimmick than an actual useful work item. If you seriously need an electronic device for work you should be using a laptop.

What would they use an ipad for? Taking notes? Use a feckin a4 pad. Working on presentations? If you want to do that properly, use a laptop.

Doing work like that on a tablet is frustrating for me, and I work in the IT sector. I can only imagine what 65 year old Joe Politician is going to be like trying to create a Powerpoint presentation with a touch screen device.

flutered

Henlars67 wrote: »

Ya, thought this already happened. Don't see the issue. It's about time some of them embraced technology.

They're entitled to claim expenses for new computers and the like anyways.

what would they need both laptops and i pads for, why not settle for a netbook.

Allyall

I just think it's poor timing to be splashing out all that money on iPads, when they probably all have laptops. Poor timing and a bit insulting.

o1s1n

Allyall wrote: »

I just think it's poor timing to be splashing out all that money on iPads, when they probably all have laptops. Poor timing and a bit insulting.

I work in an environment where exactly the same thing was done, every member of staff received a tablet device for free.

That was a month or two ago. How many of them do I still see using them? None. How many still carry their laptops around? All of them.

whippet

some of the guff being spouted on here is unreal.

a couple of facts here probably won't go astray:

- The are not getting the top of the range iPads - they are getting the entry level versions
- The cost savings from printing - which will be done away with are massive and has been studied to death. The lead on this came from the UK Houses of parliament.
- The iPad is still the only device on the market with 'hardware' encryption
- The government will not be paying top dollar for these devices - they were awarded to an irish company after a very competitive tender
- These will be managed via a best in breed MDM solution which has customers like the US Military and the UK government
- Why should our government not move with the times and use technology when everyone is talking about 'smart economies' and 'green tech'?
- As for the iOS v Android debate, I would imagine most of our elected politicians are more up to speed with iOS than Android and as such the learning curve is smaller.

I don't begrudge our elected officials getting an iPad to help them in their work, I have a bigger problem with the number of these people that we need to 'run' our country.

Allyall

o1s1n wrote: »

I work in an environment where exactly the same thing was done, every member of staff received a tablet device for free.

That was a month or two ago. How many of them do I still see using them? None. How many still carry their laptops around? All of them.

That's true.. Never even thought of that. I know of a Chemical Company, where they were offered a tablet, half paid for by the company, half by themselves. Optional. Most went for it, as it was a great price. They used them for a week. Got sick tapping, and realised their phone did the same. Few of them now all use an old PC sitting in the back. They run in to look something up every now and then. None of them bring their tablet to work.

whippet

o1s1n wrote: »

I work in an environment where exactly the same thing was done, every member of staff received a tablet device for free.

That was a month or two ago. How many of them do I still see using them? None. How many still carry their laptops around? All of them.

the IT department would have a question to answer there; why implement such a device roll out without having proper integration.

I have worked with a number of organisations who planned the implementations properly and guess what; the majority of people leave their laptops on the desk and take the iPad everywhere.

Bullseye1

dulpit wrote: »

Tablets are cheaper than the copious amounts of printing they would need. It's not a personal device, it's a tool for their work.

So let them pay for it.

awec

Bullseye1 wrote: »

So let them pay for it.

If it is for work use then they shouldn't personally have to pay for it.

Bullseye1

whippet wrote: »

some of the guff being spouted on here is unreal.

a couple of facts here probably won't go astray:

- The are not getting the top of the range iPads - they are getting the entry level versions
- The cost savings from printing - which will be done away with are massive and has been studied to death. The lead on this came from the UK Houses of parliament.
- The iPad is still the only device on the market with 'hardware' encryption
- The government will not be paying top dollar for these devices - they were awarded to an irish company after a very competitive tender
- These will be managed via a best in breed MDM solution which has customers like the US Military and the UK government
- Why should our government not move with the times and use technology when everyone is talking about 'smart economies' and 'green tech'?
- As for the iOS v Android debate, I would imagine most of our elected politicians are more up to speed with iOS than Android and as such the learning curve is smaller.

I don't begrudge our elected officials getting an iPad to help them in their work, I have a bigger problem with the number of these people that we need to 'run' our country.

Seriously you don't think they could afford these out of their own pocket?

Bullseye1

awec wrote: »

If it is for work use then they shouldn't personally have to pay for it.

No wonder the country is ****ed when people have no problem with over paid politicians being exempt from reaching into their own pockets.

There are plenty of self employed people who have to pay for tools for work out of their own pocket. Why should TDs be exempt?

Anyone

Bullseye1 wrote: »

No wonder the country is ****ed when people have no problem with over paid politicians being exempt from reaching into their own pockets.

There are plenty of self employed people who have to pay for tools for work out of their own pocket. Why should TDs be exempt?

Well TD's aren't self employed, so not sure what point you are trying to make with that comparison.

Edit: Also a self employed person will buy an ipad, call it a business expense and get the VAT back, and its tax deductable.

Bullseye1

Anyone wrote: »

Well TD's aren't self employed, so not sure what point you are trying to make with that comparison.

The person I was replying too stated they were a tool for work. You cannot see the point I'm making.:rolleyes:

whippet

Bullseye1 wrote: »

No wonder the country is ****ed when people have no problem with over paid politicians being exempt from reaching into their own pockets.

There are plenty of self employed people who have to pay for tools for work out of their own pocket. Why should TDs be exempt?

if you were told by your employer that you had to go out and pay for your PC what would you think?

Seriously, you might not like your politicians; but at least try and take a rational view.

Bullseye1

whippet wrote: »

if you were told by your employer that you had to go out and pay for your PC what would you think?

Seriously, you might not like your politicians; but at least try and take a rational view.

Their employer is the electorate. I don't recall any of us telling them they need an ipad. They earn €90,000-€150,000 each. They can afford €500-600 for one of these. They get enough allowances.

Anyone

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Their employer is the electorate. I don't recall any of us telling them they need an ipad. They earn €90,000-€150,000 each. They can afford €500-600 for one of these. They get enough allowances.

So you expect every TD to inform you when they need something? Also, TD's are employed by the State, not the electorate.

Bullseye1

Anyone wrote: »

So you expect every TD to inform you when they need something? Also, TD's are employed by the State, not the electorate.

No. I expect them to pay for their own ipads.

awec

Bullseye1 wrote: »

No wonder the country is ****ed when people have no problem with over paid politicians being exempt from reaching into their own pockets.

There are plenty of self employed people who have to pay for tools for work out of their own pocket. Why should TDs be exempt?

Self employed people don't pay the same amount for an ipad as me or you. TDs are also not self employed.

Bullseye1 wrote: »

No. I expect them to pay for their own ipads.

Can we make all public sector workers pay for their own paper, pens, staplers, files, etc etc?

Bullseye1

awec wrote: »

Self employed people don't pay the same amount for an ipad as me or you. TDs are also not self employed.


Can we make all public sector workers pay for their own paper, pens, staplers, files, etc etc?

Your comparing other public sector workers to TD's. Seriously?:rolleyes:

awec

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Your comparing other public sector workers to TD's. Seriously?:rolleyes:

Yes, of course?

At what salary level do you feel employees need to start paying for their own equipment for work?

Allyall

awec wrote: »

Can we make all public sector workers pay for their own paper, pens, staplers, files, etc etc?

They should pay for something they don't need.
As has been mentioned, they have laptops.

Salaries and expenses

• Basic Salary: €92,672
• Mobile Phone Allowance: A maximum of €750 every 18 months
• Constituency Office maintenance allowance: €8,888.17
• Constituency Travel Allowance: ranging from €2,475 to €8,782 depending on size of constituency
• Daily Allowance: €61.53 for members who live within 24 km of Leinster House
• Miscellaneous expense allowance: €5,489.08

That's sickening in itself. But just to show that they understand EVERYONE has to hold back on buying things they don't need, they should lead by example.

Multiply it by every member (266?) - It is a lot of money and could be used elsewhere.

Bullseye1

So public sector works are elected every five years and have over €100,000 in wages and expenses, have their own secretaries, allowances for keeping offices in their elected areas, huge pensions to look forward too (some already on them yet only in 40's), and have jobs to fall back onto if they fail to get re-elected?

Name one.

Bullseye1

Allyall wrote: »

They should pay for something they don't need.
As has been mentioned, they have laptops.



That's sickening in itself. But just to show that they understand EVERYONE has to hold back on buying things they don't need, they should lead by example.

Multiply it by every member (266?) - It is a lot of money and could be used elsewhere.

Thanks for posting these figures.

ejmaztec

Free strychnine tablets would be more productive.

Overheal

Allyall wrote: »

I think this is the Straw the snapped the Camels back, for me.
I was having a conversation with someone about all the taxes that are available to us this year.
Carbon/Water/Household/New Entertainment Licence.. Etc.. and many more i may have left out.
Then we did the usual, "Well why don't they take a pay cut, how much do they all add up to?"
"Take the property directly from the property developers, ask questions later"..
"It can't be that hard to find money, i think they're making it harder. Stuck in the stone age. If they were a football manager, they'd be sacked by now. Just adding tax to everything, and ignoring their own massive wages, WTF?"

..or similar. Then a guy in the office read out this
Journal link


For me, this is the final straw (As mentioned).
They could buy cheap tablets, as most don't know how to work the fecking things anyway.
Assuming they will buy top of the Range iPads, and there are over 200 TD's/Senators, how much does this all add up to?
Who pays the Wifi/3G connection?

They don't f***ing need them, if they insist they do, then why not get THESE or another cheap one.

I f***ing hate the lot of them.. :mad:

The stupidest government purchase I ever heard of was in California. Someone ordered up hundreds of 64GB iPads, and when asked about why they needed the more expensive units the response was "They run faster".

Sigh.

However, even I, a guy who sells these mother****ing things all day, have to admit this seems like a pretty valid purchase.

Look at the Benefits, and the reason a high capacity cellular/broadband model is preferable:

-Keeps the TDs and Senators on a consistent platform for content delivery and communication. Always connected to the legislation, etc. including the ability to have video conferencing and group messaging, email, etc

-The iPad in particular is quite simply the most robust model. There isn't an Andorid model out there I could suggest. While cheaper, they are more likely to fail as well. Software support isn't as stringent either, and the actual threat of malware for a legislative official is probably a bad idea, and lets face it these kids arent technically savvy to begin with. My own employer prefers Android for the BYOD program but we still inventory out specific android devices for the program, 1 per store, and the only reason is that we have our own App Developers and Apps that we use for in-house; something I doubt the legislative body requires, or will indeed have - that is, I can't think of a need for them to have oireachtas-specific apps etc. and even the apps we have are limited in their usefulness.

Obviously Im not a fan of officials voting themselves 'luxuries' but if used properly (and yeah theyll be used as playthings quite often) this seems like a very useful way to conduct legislature. Paper is a dying medium for bills that can be hundreds of pages long. The cost and headache of printing, distributing multiple copies of proposed bills, every time you need to edit the ****ing document, the ability to word search for specific legislative phrases and entries, etc. - its frankly just more efficient. For the same reason some medical universities already require students to have them. And the 64GB or even 128GB model makes sense because, it doesn't seem like it, but those documents will add up, especially given that proposed legislation will likely float around the office as uncompressed facsimile scans and PDFs, not completed/optimized webpage versions that are seen on the likes of irishstatutebook.ie

At this point, tablets are less a luxury item and more a necessity for the workflow boost they offer. Im sure similar discussions were griped about in years past when senators and TDs were offered fancy schmancy laptops. Ah sure why can't they use a Desktop. A Desktop?! They don't need the interweb! Whats wrong with a letter! Why do you want to put a secretary out of a job! etc.

shanec1928

smash wrote: »

How exactly does having a tablet cut down on printing?

PDF's

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Your comparing other public sector workers to TD's. Seriously?:rolleyes:

tds are public sector workers:rolleyes: