SF to refund property tax

frfintanstack

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Actually it is going to help fund a bloated and overpaid public sector.

making the county councils accountable for spending the property tax can only improve accountability.

The large disconnect between the payment and provision of services now hides a lot.

Look at the hysterical moaning with the introduction of this tax. imagine the county councillors knocking on doors looking for a vote when they've been wasting your money paid directly.

might make people think of who they vote for in local elections a bit more carefully. Not just vote for the guy who got the pothole fixed outside your gate

frfintanstack

SamHall wrote: »

If you really believe councils will cut the charges when they can set their own rates, you're not thinking straight at all.

Upwards only may have well been written in the legislation.

they have to get elected....so who you going to vote for? the guys putting the charges up or those saying they can do it better for less?

LordSutch

You gotta hand it to Sinn Fein, they make sure they are in the headlines every week, always headlining with a much
higher profile than any other party in the Dail. Love em or hate em (as I do) they never miss a populist trick . . .

stoneill

Folks,
You have to analyse the property tax, why are homeowners being burdened by a tax on dwellings that was paid for
by income that was already subjected to tax? This is inherently unfair.
As we are always being compared to other EU countries, they pay it so we should pay it.
The big difference is that their contribution go directly into services, services that we have to pay separately for.
Paid for by income that has already been subjected to tax.

whatever you end up paying for property tax - remember you have to earn twice that much to allow you pay.
If it's €200 - you need to earn €400 etc.

I would consider my pay to be quite healthy - but recently all I have is enough to pay bills and little else.
There is no disposable income, my back account is €47 until Thursday.
I will pay outstanding bills and buy the groceries. that will use up all my income.
Compared to others I'm in a better financial position as I don't owe anyone, however for a person
who has worked for the last 30 years to be going around with just €20 lunch money for the week, it's
a deplorable situation to be in.

frfintanstack

stoneill wrote: »

Folks,
You have to analyse the property tax, why are homeowners being burdened by a tax on dwellings that was paid for
by income that was already subjected to tax? This is inherently unfair.

why is it unfair? everyone pays it who owns a property (unless exempt )

Riskymove

Penn wrote: »

They should have stopped at "We'll abolish the property tax".

Saying they'll refund everyone is just a huge steaming pile of nonsense. And if anything, puts me off voting for them because it's increasingly clear they'll say anything to get into power without actually having a sensible plan to achieve anything they promise.

indeed, what happens if they dont come to power for 20 years? are they really gonna be able to refund 20 years worth of tax?

Rented Mule

Brynlee Salmon Desk wrote: »

SF have come out and said they will refund property tax at some point in the future IF they get into government
http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/21062647/?view=Standard

They also want to raise the corporation tax to 30% essentially chasing every multinational out of the country.

padd b1975

Sinn Féin are part of Government in Northern Ireland, a country which pays a much higher rate of property tax (A tax that SF supported)

How can this shower of chancers endorse a tax out of one side of their mouth while out of the other promise to refund a lower rate of the same tax to a guy 200 yards down the road because they think its unfair???


The truth really is stranger than fiction.

Banjo String

padd b1975 wrote: »

Sinn Féin are part of Government in Northern Ireland, a country which pays a much higher rate of property tax (A tax that SF supported)

How can this shower of chancers endorse a tax out of one side of their mouth while out of the other promise to refund a lower rate of the same tax to a guy 200 yards down the road because they think its unfair???


The truth really is stranger than fiction.

Would you care to give a list of services provided with the domestic rates system in the north?

Then give a list what is provided with the tax down here?

Just for clarity.

squod

Dotsey wrote: »

....... maybe the Green are the real alternative if this is the case

Don't mention those buggers. In government five minutes, commit mass fraud during the Anglo bail-out. Back on their arses with a full pension.

First against the wall after FF if ever get my way.

padd b1975

SamHall wrote: »

Would you care to give a list of services provided with the domestic rates system in the north?

Then give a list what is provided with the tax down here?

Just for clarity.

Ask Gerry Adams.

His party voted for it.

After you have asked him that, ask him how he is going to explain to the IMf why his party has gone against the terms of the bailout.

May as well go for the hat-trick and ask him how he is going to make up the budget shortfall his refund will create.

stoneill

frfintanstack wrote: »

why is it unfair? everyone pays it who owns a property (unless exempt )

Because you have already been taxed on the money to purchase the property.

squod

padd b1975 wrote: »

........ ask him how he is going to explain to the IMf why his party has gone against the terms of the bailout.

God forbid democracy should have anything to do with our future.

stoneill

stoneill wrote: »

Because you have already been taxed on the money to purchase the property.

If you would like to live somewhere with relatively little taxation - and as a result, very little security, healthcare, schooling, infrastructure - perhaps you would prefer a move to Somalia?

Mint Sauce

Brynlee Salmon Desk wrote: »

SF have come out and said they will refund property tax at some point in the future IF they get into government
http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/21062647/?view=Standard

What a load of baloney.

Very easy to say these things when not in power and even harder to do when in power.
Where will the money come from to refund us? The Northern Bank

Every other country in europe has a property tax (open to correction) and we are coming into line.

But in most other countries that have a property/council tax, the money is spent on local services in the area that its collected.

Here, it will just probably just go in one big pot with with every other tax. Unless that is some one can show what exactly it will be spent on and where.

Banjo String

padd b1975 wrote: »

Ask Gerry Adams.

His party votedqt.

After you have asked him that, ask him how he is going to explain to the IMf why his party has gone against the terms of the bailout.

May as well go for the hat-trick and ask him how he is going to make up the budget shortfall his refund will create.

Pretty sure that the domestic rates system has been in place for decades before SF got into the coalition govt in the north. (as Junior partners may i add)

As for asking Gerry Adams anything, that doesn't answer the question i asked you.

What services are included with the rates system in the north?

What services are included with the property tax they want to introduce here?

Take your time now.

Dravokivich

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

If you would like to live somewhere with relatively little taxation - and as a result, very little security, healthcare, schooling, infrastructure - perhaps you would prefer a move to Somalia?

The issue isn't "Why do we pay tax," It's "Why should we pay tax again on something we've already paid tax on, with tax"

Dravokivich

Dravokivich wrote: »

The issue isn't "Why do we pay tax," It's "Why should we pay tax again on something we've already paid tax on, with tax"

Because a house is an asset? Why should a business man pay taxes on his earnings when he has already paid VAT on his goods sold? If we're going by your logic...

Augmerson

Brynlee Salmon Desk wrote: »

SF have come out and said they will refund property tax at some point in the future IF they get into government
http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/21062647/?view=Standard

What a load of baloney.

Very easy to say these things when not in power and even harder to do when in power.
Where will the money come from to refund us? The Northern Bank

Every other country in europe has a property tax (open to correction) and we are coming into line.

Yeah, shameful. People will say anything to get into power.

Just look at the Blueshirts and Labour.

darkhorse

Brynlee Salmon Desk wrote: »

Every other country in europe has a property tax (open to correction) and we are coming into line.

I have two questions for you.

1) Could you tell me what other countries enforced a property tax on its citizens in a recession.
2) Does the countries that have a property tax, actually give some form of return to its citizens in for payment of the tax.

padd b1975

squod wrote: »

God forbid democracy should have anything to do with our future.

God forbid having money to run the country should have anything to do with our future.

Chips Lovell

So SF are first out of the blocks with promises of a giveaway budget?

I suppose if they include a few more elements of the 1977 Fianna Fail general election manifesto they'll soon put this country on the road to recovery and kneecap this recession.

fishy fishy

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Why are the left wing against property tax, do they not even understand what they stand for or are they just all populists.

you don't seem to understand why they are against the property tax - do you know what property tax is supposed to include?? Do you know that it doesn't include what it is supposed to in Ireland. You need to think a little deeper at what is going on.

Banjo String

padd b1975 wrote: »

God forbid having money to run the country should have anything to do with our future.

But will it be used to 'run the country'?

Sadly, we will never know for sure.

stoneill

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

If you would like to live somewhere with relatively little taxation - and as a result, very little security, healthcare, schooling, infrastructure - perhaps you would prefer a move to Somalia?

Don't be facetious

Other EU countries can manage very well with more progressive and fairer tax systems.
As pointed out again and again - property tax in other countries go towards services, in Ireland they do not.
It is simply a tax because you bothered your hole to buy a gaff, with income that was taxed, and heavily taxed since the introduction of USC, and stamp duty has been paid.

Banjo String

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

So SF are first out of the blocks with promises of a giveaway budget?

I suppose if they include a few more elements of the 1977 Fianna Fail general election manifesto they'll soon put this country on the road to recovery and kneecap this recession.

The complete opposite of what the current shower did pre - election?

At least FG/Lab wouldn't stoop so low to promise the electorate things they had no intention of keeping. Because that's not what you do in elections after all......


Wait a minute........

Dyr

The Backwards Man wrote: »

What's worrying is the twenty odd percent of the population that believe Sinn Fein are a credible alternative.

Being a credible alternative to a FG/Sticky government isn't really that much of an achievement though.

mike65

This isn't worth the ink used to print the document.

Chips Lovell

SamHall wrote: »

The complete opposite of what the current shower did pre - election?

At least FG/Lab wouldn't stoop so low to promise the electorate things they had no intention of keeping. Because that's not what you do in elections after all......


Wait a minute........

I suppose if you're upset with one government not keeping pre-election promises, the logical option is to vote for someone who makes even more unrealistic promises.

Sergeant

mike65 wrote: »

This isn't worth the ink used to print the document.

Did we ever end up getting a refund for that?

fishy fishy

padd b1975 wrote: »

Ask Gerry Adams.

His party voted for it.

After you have asked him that, ask him how he is going to explain to the IMf why his party has gone against the terms of the bailout.

May as well go for the hat-trick and ask him how he is going to make up the budget shortfall his refund will create.

LOL - is that your answer? :roll eyes: Do you even know the answer

Banjo String

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I suppose if you're upset with one government not keeping pre-election promises, the logical option is to vote for someone who makes even more unrealistic promises.

Good point.

I was pointing out your hypocrisy though.

padd b1975

SamHall wrote: »

But will it be used to 'run the country'?

Sadly, we will never know for sure.

Before the IMF/Troika came to town, we had more or less enough money to keep services (Police, hospitals, education etc etc) going for about 5 months.

Since then services have been maintained and no public servant has seen their pay cheque bounce.

As far as I'm concerned, the answer is yes.
It has been used to run the country.

ardmacha

Would you care to give a list of services provided with the domestic rates system in the north?

With the exception of bins, the services provided North and South are not very different and the property tax in the 26 counties is half that in the North.

While there are legitimate questions about the quality of the exact service, this continual posting that there is no service provided is immature.

darkhorse

fishy fishy wrote: »

easy fool a lot of the people. throw any jul crap at them and they believe it.

Yer right there. Thats exactly what happened two years ago.

fishy fishy

seriously after reading the posts on this thread, I can fully understand why this govt keeps lobbing tax after tax onto people, fleecing them at every chance they get - I'm beginning to think it is deserved because of the stupidity of people not to questions what the actual money is supposed to be doing.

PauloMN

padd b1975 wrote: »

Ask Gerry Adams.

His party voted for it.

After you have asked him that, ask him how he is going to explain to the IMf why his party has gone against the terms of the bailout.

May as well go for the hat-trick and ask him how he is going to make up the budget shortfall his refund will create.

It'll come from the same place that SF think the solutions to all the country's problems will come from.... "taxing the wealthy." :pac:

Banjo String

fishy fishy wrote: »

LOL - is that your answer? :roll eyes: Do you even know the answer

Nobody wants to give that answer.

Fact is, it's stupidity to try and compare the two.

Rates = health care, education, refuse collection all provided within your rates .

Irish property tax = what exactly? If it includes doctor /hospital appointments, no more book fees, motor tax deductions, emptying our bins etc, sign me up.

frfintanstack

stoneill wrote: »

Because you have already been taxed on the money to purchase the property.

Im not sure why that matters, plenty of taxes are like that.


so get out protesting about VAT, vrt, etc. etc....

still dont know why you think its not fair?

a tax on an asset like this should be exactly what left wing parties here should be for as it proportionately affects better off people more.

As well as being a true "wealth tax" that the muppets in Sinn Fein call for often enough.

stoneill

stoneill wrote: »

Don't be facetious

Other EU countries can manage very well with more progressive and fairer tax systems.
As pointed out again and again - property tax in other countries go towards services, in Ireland they do not.
It is simply a tax because you bothered your hole to buy a gaff, with income that was taxed, and heavily taxed since the introduction of USC, and stamp duty has been paid.

Really now? I think you're misrepresenting the word "progressive." As in, in other countries such as Germany, the lower paid will also pay a lot more tax. So our system of tax is incredibly kind to the lower paid, while harsher on those who earn more.

So do tell of these magical countries who run services without taking in taxes. I'd love to know how they do it. :rolleyes:

Also, property taxes WILL go to local councils, with the onus on the electorate to choose their councilors WISELY. What is the problem with this?

Chips Lovell

We need proper local services to justify this property tax.

Who can take your trash out?
Stomp it down for you?
Shake the plastic bag and do the twisty thingy too?
The Garbage Man!!
Oh the Garbage Man can
The Garbage Man can and he does it with a smile and never judges you.
Who can take this diaper?
I don't mind at all
Who can clean me up before the big policeman's ball?
The Garbage Man
yes the garbage man can

golfball37

I wonder how many here would refuse the refund if offered?

kraggy

People slating SF for making promises yet many of you will vote FG and/or Labour in the next election despite them reneging on a litany of promises that they made in the last election.

One of the few promises they've kept is actually the one promise they should break- unemployment benefit/assistance needs to decrease.

golfball37

golfball37 wrote: »

I wonder how many here would refuse the refund if offered?

How many people would refuse a million euro, if offered? Doesn't change the fact that it's an impossibility.

Hilarious that you would even attempt give some credence to this waffle.

kraggy

kraggy wrote: »

People slating SF for making promises yet many of you will vote FG and/or Labour in the next election despite them reneging on a litany of promises that they made in the last election.

Go on...?

PauloMN

golfball37 wrote: »

I wonder how many here would refuse the refund if offered?

Why would/should people refuse such an offer?

Sergeant

golfball37 wrote: »

I wonder how many here would refuse the refund if offered?

Very few. Nobody likes paying rates and taxes. Doesn't mean we don't have to pay them.

Illogical argument.

darkhorse

Penn wrote: »

And if anything, puts me off voting for them because it's increasingly clear they'll say anything to get into power.

Sure, is'nt that what you tend to do?

padd b1975

PauloMN wrote: »

It'll come from the same place that SF think the solutions to all the country's problems will come from.... "taxing the wealthy." :pac:

Lol.

Either that or they will trot out that hardy annual 'raid the pension reserve fund'

Someone needs to bring those loons up to speed.

Antar Bolaeisk

I'd be almost tempted to vote for these guys just to see what would happen, a morbid curiosity if you will. Almost.