SF to refund property tax

padd b1975

PauloMN wrote: »

Why would/should people refuse such an offer?

Indeed.

I'm sure like all SF economic "suggestions", this has been properly costed....:o

frfintanstack

golfball37 wrote: »

I wonder how many here would refuse the refund if offered?

That's the level of analysis Sinn Fein depend on to get votes.

thanks god most people think a little deeper about issues

Sergeant

padd b1975 wrote: »

Lol.

Either that or they will trot out that hardy annual 'raid the pension reserve fund'

Someone needs to bring those loons up to speed.

Or "these figures have been costed by the Department of Finance". Might as well cost a base on the dark side of the moon while they're at it.

padd b1975

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

I'd be almost tempted to vote for these guys just to see what would happen, a morbid curiosity if you will. Almost.

Martin Ferris as Minister for Marine and Defence.

I think I read somewhere he has some fishing trawler/gunship experience.

PauloMN

Antar Bolaeisk wrote: »

I'd be almost tempted to vote for these guys just to see what would happen, a morbid curiosity if you will. Almost.

That's the scary thing. There's quite sane, sensible people who seem to be willing to give them a chance after years of poor governance. I think when people see SF "policies" in action, and the resulting damage to the country, they'd realise their mistake - but it might be too late then.

I'm glad SF have come out with this latest bull**** today to be honest, the more of this stuff the better. The people who are not hardened shinners will see through it, and hopefully it'll swing them away from voting for them.

Phill Ewinn

Property taxes will go the same way they always went. Refunding them would cost feck all in the grand scheme of things. We're still subsidising paid parking charges in local councils and the like. It's easily doable.

Bullseye1

Robbo wrote: »

And the auction politics for the next election begins...

I cannot see FG or Labour matching it. :pac:

kraggy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Go on...?

I've made my point. What do you want, a thesis?

Penn

darkhorse wrote: »

Sure, is'nt that what you tend to do?

Difference between making promises you probably can't keep (FG/Labour) and making hugely unrealistic promises you would never be able to keep (SF).

If a party says they can do X and then either only do it halfway or find they can't keep the promise, or they over-estimate what they can do (provide a certain number of jobs etc), I can accept that. A promise made in 2011 might not be able to be kept in 2012 even with all the best estimates and predictions. What needs to be done needs to be done, no matter how unpopular.

SF don't do that. They promise anything and everything that the public wants, but have no realistic way of doing it in the first place. There is no way SF could afford to refund everyone's property tax by the time they got into power, as well as keep all the other numerous fanciful promises they'll make. SF decry and oppose almost everything the Government does, but never offer any realistic alternate solutions. They're the biggest bunch of rabblerabblerabble'ers with nothing of any substance to back them up. All they do is agree with the public on every unpopular decision by the Government and promise they wouldn't do it. All they want is to look good on election posters.

GRMA

wolfpawnat wrote: »

With their bandwagon hopping politics, if the in thing is to support the property tax next week (which I know it won't but anyway) They would be all for that. They are just going for the popular vote..... AGAIN!!!! It's all so predictable.

You have to laugh at this crap.

They've been against it from the start, if they got in and didnt get rid of it you'd be calling them liars.

GRMA

Penn wrote: »

Difference between making promises you probably can't keep (FG/Labour) and making hugely unrealistic promises you would never be able to keep (SF).

If a party says they can do X and then either only do it halfway or find they can't keep the promise, or they over-estimate what they can do (provide a certain number of jobs etc), I can accept that. A promise made in 2011 might not be able to be kept in 2012 even with all the best estimates and predictions. What needs to be done needs to be done, no matter how unpopular.

SF don't do that. They promise anything and everything that the public wants, but have no realistic way of doing it in the first place. There is no way SF could afford to refund everyone's property tax by the time they got into power, as well as keep all the other numerous fanciful promises they'll make. SF decry and oppose almost everything the Government does, but never offer any realistic alternate solutions. They're the biggest bunch of rabblerabblerabble'ers with nothing of any substance to back them up. All they do is agree with the public on every unpopular decision by the Government and promise they wouldn't do it. All they want is to look good on election posters.

You can keep saying this, but it doesnt make it true.

20Cent

Great idea they have my vote next election.

GRMA

MadsL wrote: »

Refunds here, Council tax in NI.

Will the real SF please stand up, please stand up.

SF have no control on taxes in the north.
Its also powersharing.
You want them to pull out of stormont in protest? Or do you want to acknowledge that powersharing has done great things for the north and its a work in progress?

dxhound2005

They have a nice wealth tax lined up.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/taxation-measures

Wealth taxes
•Introduce a wealth tax of 1% on all assets in excess of €1 million, excluding working farmland, business assets, and the first 20% of value of primary residences worth in excess of €1 million. The Department of Finance to examine an inability to pay clause for asset rich, cash poor individuals. Raises: €800 million

Fratton Fred

I wonder if they'll bring in an ink cartridge tax?

Banjo String

Looks like some Labour members are starting to criticize the property tax too by the looks of things.

'Dog's dinner' of a property tax

Meanwhile a second member of the Labour parliamentary party is slamming the manner in which the government is handling the property tax.
The Labour Party Chief Whip Emmet Stagg says the coalition has made a "dog's dinner" of the way in which the tax is being administered. It is over the drastic reduction in the number of exemptions offered to those living in unfinished ghost estates - in comparison to the household charge.
43,000 homes were exempt from the household charge last year. But that has plummeted to 5,100 for the property tax.
Yesterday Junior Labour party Minister Sean Sherlock also criticised the way in which the Government has handled the issue. While Labour Chief Whip Emmett Stagg has told KFM the estates have not "miraculously" been completed in the last 12 months.

http://www.newstalk.ie/Labour-Chief-Whip-criticises-dogs-dinner-of-property-tax


I'm sceptical that they're making a few loud noises and objections now, in the full knowledge they're going to be wiped out in the next election.

If they truly want to save face, they should pull out of govt now imo.
Sure what have they to lose now that their pensions have all been secured.

tayto lover

Penn wrote: »

They should have stopped at "We'll abolish the property tax".

Saying they'll refund everyone is just a huge steaming pile of nonsense. And if anything, puts me off voting for them because it's increasingly clear they'll say anything to get into power without actually having a sensible plan to achieve anything they promise.

" well, isn't that what you say to get elected" -- Pat Rabbitte 2013.

darkhorse

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

A left wing party should be most in favour of a property tax,.

Why?

darkhorse

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Because a house is an asset?

WRONG.

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I suppose if you're upset with one government not keeping pre-election promises, the logical option is to vote for someone who makes even more unrealistic promises.

But the thing is, FG/Lab really made it sound realistic. The character Keyser Soze comes to mind.

darkhorse

ardmacha wrote: »

With the exception of bins, the services provided North and South are not very different and the property tax in the 26 counties is half that in the North.

Yeah, starting off.

wolfpawnat

GRMA wrote: »

You have to laugh at this crap.

They've been against it from the start, if they got in and didnt get rid of it you'd be calling them liars.

If they got in and did not change it, they would be as hypocritical as the idiots before them, and the idiots before them again, because well, that is what they would be.

It is popular vote hunting.

If you vote me in, I'll give you x,y and z. How often has anyone in politics kept their promises?

Mahogany

Brynlee Salmon Desk wrote: »

Every other country in europe has a property tax (open to correction) and we are coming into line.

Yes but ours doesn't take income into account, that's the vital point here.

darkhorse

wolfpawnat wrote: »

If you vote me in, I'll give you x,y and z. How often has anyone in politics kept their promises?

Well, we really have nothing to compare to FF/FF/Labour up to now as regards of keeping promises.

darkhorse

darkhorse wrote: »

WRONG.

Really? You don't support SF by any chance, with your fantastic grasp of economics?

I lol. But, inside I cry.

dxhound2005

Mahogany wrote: »

Yes but ours doesn't take income into account, that's the vital point here.

The SF version in the North doesn't allow you not to pay if you are poor or on a low income. You have to come to some arrangement. That's the vital point there.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/what-happens-if-i-cant-pay-my-rate-bill

In England if you are poor you can apply for Council Tax Benefit to help you pay. But you have to pay. That's the vital point there.

hare

With the amount of houses the belfast leadership own theres a nice few quid to be earned.

Tar.Aldarion

They just say whatever they think people want. Being in power would be the end of them when they can't do their fantastical claims. Look at NI

Mahogany

dxhound2005 wrote: »

]

In England if you are poor you can apply for Council Tax Benefit to help you pay. But you have to pay. That's the vital point there.

And there's nothing like that here, thats the vital point!

GRMA

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

They just say whatever they think people want. Being in power would be the end of them when they can't do their fantastical claims. Look at NI

Yes lets.

There is power sharing.

There is no fiscal power, they can't touch taxes or anything, they are controlled in England.

You were saying?

mewithoutyou

Wouldnt mind it t be honest cause your gettin your money back at the end of the day, its like savins really if ye think about it, ya know

Phoebas

Is there anyone on here who actually believe that SF would refund the property tax? Anyone?

Also, does the refund include interest and penalty charges? 'Cos if it doesn't, the prudent thing to do would be to pay it on time.

Banjo String

Brynlee Salmon Desk wrote: »

Every other country in europe has a property tax (open to correction) and we are coming into line.

This 'everyone else in Europe does it' thing is starting to wear thin with me.

If we are to copy 'European models' perhaps we should start slashing PS numbers and salaries to match others in Europe too?

Maybe we should adopt the tobacco/alcohol taxation policies of some European countries while we're at it?

Mongfinder General

Phoebas wrote: »

Is there anyone on here who actually believe that SF would refund the property tax? Anyone?

Also, does the refund include interest and penalty charges? 'Cos if it doesn't, the prudent thing to do would be to pay it on time.

They'd have no problem refunding the property tax. You see, it's ever so easy. There are machines called printing presses. They can print these pieces of paper called magic Irish Punts...

tayto lover

SamHall wrote: »

This 'everyone else in Europe does it' thing is starting to wear thin with me.

If we are to copy 'European models' perhaps we should start slashing PS numbers and salaries to match others in Europe too?

Maybe we should adopt the tobacco/alcohol taxation policies of some European countries while we're at it?

And scrap the USC. They don't pay that in Europe. Their VRT is very low too.

My name is URL

Phoebas wrote: »

Is there anyone on here who actually believe that SF would refund the property tax? Anyone?

I believe they'd do it just out of sheer spite. It'd probably cost more to implement a mass refund than what it did to collect the thing in the first place.

Anyone that has paid it already doesn't deserve to get their money back anyway, and should be forced to pay it for the rest of their lives.

Banjo String

Next up will be FF, who may stop short of offering a refund, but may promise an abolition of the tax, along with any penalties attached to it.

(Which is what I believe SF should have done too)

I for one am willing to wait it out, penalties/revenue audits...... Gamble well worth it imo.

FF are already riding high in the opinion polls atm, a property tax abolition promise might be the 'ace up the sleeve' to get them back to where they want to be.

dxhound2005

Phoebas wrote: »

Is there anyone on here who actually believe that SF would refund the property tax? Anyone?

Also, does the refund include interest and penalty charges? 'Cos if it doesn't, the prudent thing to do would be to pay it on time.

I have a suggestion for people who don't want to take a press statement as sufficient proof. When election time comes have a piece of paper prepared with the amount of tax you are due to be refunded. Include a statement to be signed by the SF candidate that he/she will personally ensure that you will get your money back if SF are elected into government. Hand it to the SF canvassers and tell them that the candidate has one week to return it to you signed. Tell them that if this does not happen you will be contacting the media and going on After Hours to let everyone know.

tayto lover

The opposition parties have realized from the opinion polls that about 65-70% of households are against the LPT and are prepared to drop it if the people back them in the next election it seems.

If they do drop it then they will have to come up with an alternative. What that is going to be should scare us as it could actually be worse. We need to know what their alternatives are before we vote.

Enough lies were told at the last General Election. If we fall for false promises again then we deserve what we get.

I want rid of this Property Tax but I want to know what I will get instead.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I have a suggestion for people who don't want to take a press statement as sufficient proof. When election time comes have a piece of paper prepared with the amount of tax you are due to be refunded. Include a statement to be signed by the SF candidate that he/she will personally ensure that you will get your money back if SF are elected into government. Hand it to the SF canvassers and tell them that the candidate has one week to return it to you signed. Tell them that if this does not happen you will be contacting the media and going on After Hours to let everyone know.

Why stop there?

When FG knock on the door, hand them an anti property tax statement they made as recently as 09, or remind them on the promise they made that the banks wouldnt get another red cent (I believe we're up to 20 billion since this promise)

Ditto with Labour and the various promises they made pre-election.
I would like to hand E.G a few written statements he made before he got in to power.

As I'm sure would all the struggling families that got their child benefit cut, and as for the despicable way he knifed Roisin Shorthall in the back?

Working man party my eye.:cool:

Yitzhak Rabin

Are people really that simple-minded??

I can't believe that people will vote for SF/IRA or FF on the promise of refunding or abolishing the Property Tax.

Its the same shinners and republicans who bang on about patriotism and selling the country to Frankfurt and other bollox. Yet they're willing to send the country back down the toilet by voting for populist economically silly policies. I knew that the Irish public were short-term thinkers, but I really didn't think their memories couldn't stretch back more than 3 years.

dxhound2005

SamHall wrote: »

Why stop there?

When FG knock on the door, hand them an anti property tax statement they made as recently as 09, or remind them on the promise they made that the banks wouldnt get another red cent (I believe we're up to 20 billion since this promise)

Ditto with Labour and the various promises they made pre-election.
I would like to hand E.G a few written statements he made before he got in to power.

As I'm sure would all the struggling families that got their child benefit cut, and as for the despicable way he knifed Roisin Shorthall in the back?

Working man party my eye.:cool:

I'm all for that. But the beauty of the SF proposal is that you can specify an exact amount of money that the candidate will promise in writing that you will be refunded. It's a bit more difficult with promises like extra Child Benefit or no increase in income tax for instance.

GRMA

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Are people really that simple-minded??

I can't believe that people will vote for SF/IRA or FF on the promise of refunding or abolishing the Property Tax.

Its the same shinners and republicans who bang on about patriotism and selling the country to Frankfurt and other bollox. Yet they're willing to send the country back down the toilet by voting for populist economically silly policies. I knew that the Irish public were short-term thinkers, but I really didn't think their memories can't stretch back more than 3 years.

Oh dear, mask slips once you say that.

Sergeant

The SF strategists are a canny shower of chancers. They realise they've reached their threshold of support by waffling on about 'community activism' and 'taxing the rich'. They want to become FF and so need to throw a few policies out there that appease the middle ground. Wrap that up in that maudlin Republican bollocks they like to fire out (not too much though, no more Martin Ferris driving to Castlerea to pick up the killers of Jerry McCabe - that won't wash down South of the Border).

Paper thin stuff, but it seems to appeal to some folk.

dxhound2005

After the next election someone will have to say. Property Tax. It hasn't gone away y'know.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I'm all for that. But the beauty of the SF proposal is that you can specify an exact amount of money that the candidate will promise in writing that you will be refunded. It's a bit more difficult with promises like extra Child Benefit or no increase in income tax for instance.

Where as the beauty of the current regime, is no one has a bloody clue what they'll be expected to pay, and no one can tell them what it is they'll recieve for their cash.

You keep referring to the tax in the North Dx hound, actually calling it an SF tax.

The SF version in the North doesn't allow you not to pay if you are poor or on a low income. You have to come to some arrangement. That's the vital point there.

Would you care to put on this thread, for us all to read clearly:

• what services are included with the rates system?
• who pays these rates (homeowners only, or tenants too)
• who actually introduced the rates system
• how long have they been in place
• how long SF have been in the coalition Govt in the north

dxhound2005

SamHall wrote: »

Where as the beauty of the current regime, is no one has a bloody clue what they'll be expected to pay, and no one can tell them what it is they'll recieve for their cash.

You keep referring to the tax in the North Dx hound, actually calling it an SF tax.

Would you care to put on this thread, for us all to read clearly:

• what services are included with the rates system?
• who pays these rates (homeowners only, or tenants too)
• who actually introduced the rates system
• how long have they been in place
• how long SF have been in the coalition Govt in the north

No. It's been done 500 times on the other threads which were shut down. This has become the new Property Tax thread and will probably suffer the same fate.

Hundreds of municipal / local / property taxes all over the world with hundreds of variations on what you pay and what you get. The common principle is that the amount you pay is usually linked to your ownership of a private residence and its value. We have had it in this country more years than not.

I had no difficulty at all in deciding which band my house is in.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

No. It's been done 500 times on the other threads which were shut down. This has become the new Property Tax thread and will probably suffer the same fate.

Hundreds of municipal / local / property taxes all over the world with hundreds of variations on what you pay and what you get. The common principle is that the amount you pay is usually linked to your ownership of a private residence and its value. We have had it in this country more years than not.

I had no difficulty at all in deciding which band my house is in.

Will you explain this bit please?
What do we get for our money?

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

No. It's been done 500 times on the other threads which were shut down. This has become the new Property Tax thread and will probably suffer the same fate.

Hundreds of municipal / local / property taxes all over the world with hundreds of variations on what you pay and what you get. The common principle is that the amount you pay is usually linked to your ownership of a private residence and its value. We have had it in this country more years than not.

I had no difficulty at all in deciding which band my house is in.

Ah but you see, some people uninformed as to what 'SF's Property tax' actually is, might get the wrong end of the stick from your constant (unsure if misleading intentionally or not) protrayal of what is provided with rates, who actually introduced them, and who actually controls them.

So by your refuasal to clarify and answer the couple of (very simple) questions I asked you to answer on thread now, leaves me with the conclusion that you may have an agenda/something to gain by your constant attempt at skewing others opinions.

I can only pray others reading this now go on to eduacte themselves as to
what level of misinformation they're being fed by some on these threads.

wolfpawnat

darkhorse wrote: »

Well, we really have nothing to compare to FF/FF/Labour up to now as regards of keeping promises.

Not in recent times, no. It would be interesting and as I have said, the could not be any worse than the liars we already have in. The worst they could do is lie as well.