SF to refund property tax

Son Of A Vidic

Brynlee Salmon Desk wrote: »

Every other country in europe has a property tax (open to correction) and we are coming into line.

And we're a great little country for obeying and coming into line aren't we.

gandalf

Ah Sinn Fein morphing into mini-FF more and more with the passing of every day

PauloMN

SamHall wrote: »

That ordinary worker in the north will not have to find

740€road tax for a 07golf (i think it's £130 there)
€50 per doctor visit
250-400 per year refuse collection
Prescription charges capped at £4
Roads are not tolled
Education /book fees
School transport (buses)
School dinners
Lower vat.

When i tax my car and pay education fees alone, I'll have surpassed the rates charge in the north.

You forgot another big one..... VRT, that makey-uppey additional tax on cars, because the purchase price VAT, annual motor tax, parts/servicing VAT and fuel tax just isn't squeezing the motorist quite enough.

Add up the thousands of € that you have spent on VRT over the years, you'd have paid none of that in NI.

cgh

SF will tax the rich here and run them all out of the country.
as a country we pay out more than we get in thats the basics.
so how can they refund a property tax.
the money has to come from somewhere.
Just gotto love the spin that SF put up.

Dravokivich

tayto lover wrote: »

The opposition parties have realized from the opinion polls that about 65-70% of households are against the LPT and are prepared to drop it if the people back them in the next election it seems.

If they do drop it then they will have to come up with an alternative. What that is going to be should scare us as it could actually be worse. We need to know what their alternatives are before we vote.

Enough lies were told at the last General Election. If we fall for false promises again then we deserve what we get.

I want rid of this Property Tax but I want to know what I will get instead.

They should do what it's really intended to be, just increase income tax. None of this hiding around and calling it property tax bullshít. If it was meant to be a proper way for paying out towards local services, I'd be expecting a reduction towards income tax, as that money wouldn't be needed for it any further.

Lone Stone

SF will tax the rich here and run them all out of the country.
as a country we pay out more than we get in thats the basics.
so how can they refund a property tax.
the money has to come from somewhere.
Just gotto love the spin that SF put up.

as apposed to taxing those who cant afford to pay or leave the country great idea !

my mother on invalidity got the notice in the door to pay this thing yesterday, the only way to pay is to not pay for house insurance because theirs no money to pay the thing, like seriously where do they expect some one invalidity to come up with a extra 500 euro a year

Lone Stone

Lone Stone wrote: »

as apposed to taxing those who cant afford to pay or leave the country great idea !

my mother on invalidity got the notice in the door to pay this thing yesterday, the only way to pay is to not pay for house insurance because theirs no money to pay the thing, like seriously where do they expect some one invalidity to come up with a extra 500 euro a year

"How do they expect someone with assets of €300k+ to pay €500?"

:rolleyes:

darkhorse

darkhorse wrote: »

Lord knows, I will try, but it is a difficult task when you're down thousands and thousands and somebody telling you that you're better off.

Your situation is not everyones situation. You are in a minority, yet want legislation that favours yourself ahead of the majority. It's Ireland, not darhorseland.

I do, of course, have much sympathy for those in negative equity. And I also believe that there will be some sort of forgiveness in the long term. What I don't like is those in negative equity throwing their toys out of the pram while the rest of us suck it up and get on with it.

Banjo String

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Your situation is not everyones situation. You are in a minority, yet want legislation that favours yourself ahead of the majority. It's Ireland, not darhorseland.

I do, of course, have much sympathy for those in negative equity. And I also believe that there will be some sort of forgiveness in the long term. What I don't like is those in negative equity throwing their toys out of the pram while the rest of us suck it up and get on with it.

Recent polls show FG on 25%
Labour, 9%

It had also been mentioned recently that 75% are extremely unhappy with how the current govt are performing.

(just throwing that out there, to counter your 'minority' statement)

ScumLord

I was hoping SF would be an alternative.

There will be absolutely no one for me to vote for in any upcoming elections. I don't see how I could ever trust FF, FG or labour. I usually vote for the local independent because at least you'll have someone that will fight your corner. There is no legitimate national agenda and every penny the local guy can divert to local causes and away from the black hole that is Dublin is a good thing in my books.

fasttalkerchat

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

"How do they expect someone with assets of €300k+ to pay €500?"

:rolleyes:

You can't sell shares in your house. A house is an asset but its not a short term money earner.

frfintanstack

A lot of people seem to be talking about NI as a comparison to taxes down here.


NI is an economic basketcase of a place that depends on massive inward flow of cash from the british government.....even when things were going well!!!

But by all means move up there.......you'll get some shock at the pay rates

Iwasfrozen

ScumLord wrote: »

I was hoping SF would be an alternative.

There will be absolutely no one for me to vote for in any upcoming elections. I don't see how I could ever trust FF, FG or labour. I usually vote for the local independent because at least you'll have someone that will fight your corner. There is no legitimate national agenda and every penny the local guy can divert to local causes and away from the black hole that is Dublin is a good thing in my books.

Sinn Féin are never the alternative, honestly I'd rather have Fianna Fail back in power then those socialist terrorist nutters.

darkhorse

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

You are in a minority.

So I've been told once or twice, on Boards.ie

darkhorse

Dravokivich wrote: »

They should do what it's really intended to be, just increase income tax. None of this hiding around and calling it property tax bullshít. If it was meant to be a proper way for paying out towards local services, I'd be expecting a reduction towards income tax, as that money wouldn't be needed for it any further.

I agree wholeheartedly. The thing is, who is going to legislate for themselves to be in the position that they would be liable to pay more tax?

awec

ScumLord wrote: »

I was hoping SF would be an alternative.

There will be absolutely no one for me to vote for in any upcoming elections. I don't see how I could ever trust FF, FG or labour. I usually vote for the local independent because at least you'll have someone that will fight your corner. There is no legitimate national agenda and every penny the local guy can divert to local causes and away from the black hole that is Dublin is a good thing in my books.

If only Dublin tax payers could do the same, put a stop to Dublin taxes being used to subsidise the rest of the country and instead spent solely on local causes. :rolleyes:

frfintanstack

ScumLord wrote: »

I was hoping SF would be an alternative.

There will be absolutely no one for me to vote for in any upcoming elections. I don't see how I could ever trust FF, FG or labour. I usually vote for the local independent because at least you'll have someone that will fight your corner. There is no legitimate national agenda and every penny the local guy can divert to local causes and away from the black hole that is Dublin is a good thing in my books.

Brilliant!!

perpetuate the parish pump boll1x that has us with a parliment full of people whose concerns are limited to the boundaries of their constituency.

Thats the bloody problem with this country..... jesus wept!

ScumLord

awec wrote: »

If only Dublin tax payers could do the same, put a stop to Dublin taxes being used to subsidise the rest of the country and instead spent solely on local causes. :rolleyes:

That's basically what's been happening all along as far as I'm concerned.

frfintanstack wrote: »

Brilliant!!

perpetuate the parish pump boll1x that has us with a parliment full of people whose concerns are limited to the boundaries of their constituency.

Thats the bloody problem with this country..... jesus wept!

A small town finally getting it's sewage fixed or a road resurfaced isn't what caused the problems in this country. It was corrupt politicians looking out for their banking and developer buddies that caused the problem. Sky rocketing prices in Dublin as the people creaming the system rolled in their own mess at everyone else's expense.

There is no legitimate national agenda so I don't see any reason to vote for a national party. They will have to demonstrate (not say) that they can improve the countries position before I'll consider voting for any of the big 3 parties again. They've destroyed any trust I had in them or their party politics. Until that happens I'm looking out for my own interests and the interests of my local community because no one else will.

For me I don't see any alternative, voting party means getting ignored and constantly hit for money that I never see any return on.

fasttalkerchat

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

You can't sell shares in your house. A house is an asset but its not a short term money earner.

Well then keep it in the family and pay the tax himself! If the house is so dear to someone, then pay the tax. It will be passed on when they are gone, making it a familial asset - i.e. chunk of wealth. Why should that wealth be untaxed for all these years?

awec

ScumLord wrote: »

That's basically what's been happening all along as far as I'm concerned.

Really?

Imagine the state rural Ireland would be in if facilities could only be paid for by local tax payers.

hyperborean

Brynlee Salmon Desk wrote: »

SF have come out and said they will refund property tax at some point in the future IF they get into government
http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/21062647/?view=Standard

What a load of baloney.

Very easy to say these things when not in power and even harder to do when in power.
Where will the money come from to refund us? The Northern Bank

Every other country in europe has a property tax (open to correction) and we are coming into line.

Anyone who falls for this nonesense is worse than a FF voter,

gallag

Vote for me for a cure to all cancers!!! Aids too!!! Plus, no more dog **** on your shoe, EVER!!!

fasttalkerchat

frfintanstack wrote: »

A lot of people seem to be talking about NI as a comparison to taxes down here.


NI is an economic basketcase of a place that depends on massive inward flow of cash from the british government.....even when things were going well!!!

But by all means move up there.......you'll get some shock at the pay rates

Pay rates in the republic have been slow to fall but they will. Living costs are high so social welfare is high so minimum age is high.

People say that the North is an unfair comparison so what about Scotland?
Cheaper insurance than NI, slightly cheaper fuel, same rent, similar education standard.

darkhorse

ScumLord wrote: »

I was hoping SF would be an alternative.

There will be absolutely no one for me to vote for in any upcoming elections. I don't see how I could ever trust FF, FG or labour. I usually vote for the local independent because at least you'll have someone that will fight your corner. There is no legitimate national agenda and every penny the local guy can divert to local causes and away from the black hole that is Dublin is a good thing in my books.

awec wrote: »

If only Dublin tax payers could do the same, put a stop to Dublin taxes being used to subsidise the rest of the country and instead spent solely on local causes. :rolleyes:

Say what ye like about the current coalition government, but ya have to hand to them just for their ability to be able to divide and conquer every section of society (read the two posts above, even), if nothing else. This in itself, has to be worthy of a mention, it being the most orchestrated plan. By the way, I wonder is there anyone out there, apart from the government apologists, who actually believe that there will be any money left for services in this country after the Troika, Bankers, Bondholders and other debts are paid. More to the point, anyone think that these debts will ever be paid, no matter how many more taxes they think up. I certainly dont. Sorry, I almost forgot, as well as the above, bridge the Deficit.

Sunnyisland

hyperborean wrote: »

Anyone who falls for this nonsense is worse than a FF voter,

Seems a lot of people do fall for it, As FF are now the most popular party In the state and have a good chance of winning the byelection tomorrow in meath

fasttalkerchat

darkhorse wrote: »

By the way, I wonder is there anyone out there, apart from the government apologists, who actually believe that there will be any money left for services in this country after the Troika, Bankers, Bondholders and other debts are paid. More to the point, anyone think that these debts will ever be paid, no matter how many more taxes they think up. I certainly dont. Sorry, I almost forgot, as well as the above, bridge the Deficit.

The government themselves don't believe it. If they did they would repay debts through a totally separate levy. If they have to hide it in the budget or indirect taxes they're masking the figures.

Antar Bolaeisk

Can we have them renamed to SF&F (only maybe drop the 'S')

darkhorse

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Why should that wealth be untaxed for all these years?

Yeah, yer right. How dare a lot of these older people, some of who paid up to 18% interest on their mortgage repayments, complain when they are forced to start paying a type of rent to the government on their own home (in order to pay the debts that other people ran up), in order that they should spend their latter years in their own home.

Banjo String

hyperborean wrote: »

Anyone who falls for this nonesense is worse than a FF voter,

FG promised not to give anymore to the banks, and to make bondholders suffer losses, they also were against taxing the family home.

Lots of people fell for that.

hyperborean

SamHall wrote: »

FG promise not to give anymore to the banks, and to make bondholders suffer losses, they also were against taxing the family home.

Lots of people fell for that.

Totally agree, FF and FG have run this country since its inception, not once has there been a government that wasnt lead by one of them, what I was saying is that SF are now trying the spoofing route to governement so loved by these 2....... its proven succesful for power hungry politicians but horrible for the citizens

Banjo String

hyperborean wrote: »

Totally agree, FF and FG have run this country since its inception, not os there been a government that wasnt lead by one of them, what I was saying is that SF are now trying the spoofing route to governement so loved by these 2....... its proven succesful for power hungry politicians but horrible for the citizens

I've stated on this thread already that this has been more than a stupid 'promise' from sf, but i also reckon ff will offer something pretty similar pre election.

Crooked Jack

Usual boards whingers and begrudgers: "What we need is a party with new ideas willing to stand up for the people."

Sinn Fein announce new idea designed to stand up for the people.

Usual boards whingers and begrudgers: "Grumble, grumble, populists spoofers, unrealistic liars, Northern Bank, Jean McConville, grumble grumble, etc etc..."

I dont even think some people on Boards actually exist, they're just a computer programme that triggers when someone mentions Sinn Fein and posts a series of the usual preset slogans and cliches.

Yawn!

fasttalkerchat

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Usual boards whingers and begrudgers: "What we need is a party with new ideas willing to stand up for the people."

Sinn Fein announce new idea designed to stand up for the people.

Usual boards whingers and begrudgers: "Grumble, grumble, populists spoofers, unrealistic liars, Northern Bank, Jean McConville, grumble grumble, etc etc..."

I dont even think some people on Boards actually exist, they're just a computer programme that triggers when someone mentions Sinn Fein and posts a series of the usual preset slogans and cliches.

Yawn!

Mossad!

Sunnyisland

SamHall wrote: »

FG promised not to give anymore to the banks, and to make bondholders suffer losses, they also were against taxing the family home.

Lots of people fell for that.

hyperborean wrote: »

Totally agree, FF and FG have run this country since its inception, not once has there been a government that wasn't lead by one of them, what I was saying is that SF are now trying the spoofing route to government so loved by these 2....... its proven successful for power hungry politicians but horrible for the citizens

SamHall wrote: »

I've stated on this thread already that this has been more than a stupid 'promise' from sf, but i also reckon ff will offer something pretty similar pre election.

And when will the Irish electrid wake up to all these not so hilarious spoofs, never the way thinks look at the moment, Political parties who make promises and don't fulfill them should be sued or made to pay in some way, sick of them all.

hyperborean

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Usual boards whingers and begrudgers: "What we need is a party with new ideas willing to stand up for the people."

Sinn Fein announce new idea designed to stand up for the people.

Usual boards whingers and begrudgers: "Grumble, grumble, populists spoofers, unrealistic liars, Northern Bank, Jean McConville, grumble grumble, etc etc..."

I dont even think some people on Boards actually exist, they're just a computer programme that triggers when someone mentions Sinn Fein and posts a series of the usual preset slogans and cliches.

Yawn!

Why bother posting if you have nothing to say? This idea is populist and has no grounding in the reality of the modern Irish economy and the cost of of keeping it running,

Tax is a necessary instrument and property tax is one of the main ways to keep the exchecker funded so we can educate, provide heathcare, public services, infrastructure and a whole host of things without which your life would be a bit more difficult,

SF are economically illiterate and this is just another example

Chucky the tree

darkhorse wrote: »

Lord knows, I will try, but it is a difficult task when you're down thousands and thousands and somebody telling you that you're better off.

No one said you were better off.

professore wrote: »

Your home doesn't generate money, in fact it costs money, and is only an asset if you can sell it for more than the outstanding mortgage on it. Otherwise it's s liability. This is basic economics.

Basic accounting I would have thought. A house is still an asset.

Dravokivich

hyperborean wrote: »

Why bother posting if you have nothing to say? This idea is populist and has no grounding in the reality of the modern Irish economy and the cost of of keeping it running,

Tax is a necessary instrument and property tax is one of the main ways to keep the exchecker funded so we can educate, provide heathcare, public services, infrastructure and a whole host of things without which your life would be a bit more difficult,

SF are economically illiterate and this is just another example

Why don't they just increase income tax then? This "Property Tax" is just a re-branding of it.

padd b1975

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Usual boards whingers and begrudgers: "What we need is a party with new ideas willing to stand up for the people."

Sinn Fein announce new idea designed to stand up for the people.

Usual boards whingers and begrudgers: "Grumble, grumble, populists spoofers, unrealistic liars, Northern Bank, Jean McConville, grumble grumble, etc etc..."

I dont even think some people on Boards actually exist, they're just a computer programme that triggers when someone mentions Sinn Fein and posts a series of the usual preset slogans and cliches.

Yawn!

Damn you people of boards.ie for calling out out bank robbers and murdering scumbags who bury their victims in unmarked graves.

Damn you all!!

frfintanstack

ScumLord wrote: »

There is no legitimate national agenda so I don't see any reason to vote for a national party. They will have to demonstrate (not say) that they can improve the countries position before I'll consider voting for any of the big 3 parties again. They've destroyed any trust I had in them or their party politics. Until that happens I'm looking out for my own interests and the interests of my local community because no one else will.

no legitimate national agenda? what does that even mean.

Do you think your interests or your local area's interests are somehow insulated from what goes on in the rest of the country.....

absolutely bizarre reasoning.

Sunnyisland

padd b1975 wrote: »

Damn you people of boards.ie for calling out out bank robbers and murdering scumbags who bury their victims in unmarked graves.

Damn you all!!

Bit of topic.. Some people like to harp on about these things for their own selfish reasons. The past is a comforting place when it allows to cover up the failures of your present. If those who are so obsessed with IRA atrocities were equally vocal and persistent in condemning the atrocities by the other side, then they may be taken with some credibility. There are unionists who would have a more balanced and realistic view of the "troubles" than many down here in the south that are obsessed with fenians with guns.

frfintanstack

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Usual boards whingers and begrudgers: "What we need is a party with new ideas willing to stand up for the people."

Sinn Fein announce new idea designed to stand up for the people.

Usual boards whingers and begrudgers: "Grumble, grumble, populists spoofers, unrealistic liars, Northern Bank, Jean McConville, grumble grumble, etc etc..."

I dont even think some people on Boards actually exist, they're just a computer programme that triggers when someone mentions Sinn Fein and posts a series of the usual preset slogans and cliches.

Yawn!

Damn right!

how dare people begrudge Sinn Fein the odd bank job to keep the "community activists" in pay or the odd kangaroo court and execution of civilians.

sure we all have a few skeletons in the closet :rolleyes:

Chips Lovell

SamHall wrote: »

FG promised not to give anymore to the banks, and to make bondholders suffer losses, they also were against taxing the family home.

Lots of people fell for that.

Did you actually read their manifestos or are you just going on what you think was in them?

FG said they wouldn't provide any more bank recapitalisations until a review was finished. Which it is what happened. Varadkar was also on record about banks not getting any more money until junior bondholders and senior bondholders shipped losses. The burnt the juniors and couldn't burn the seniors.

Labour had a property tax in its manifesto.

Aside from the slightly unrealistic promise of burning senior bondholders, we largely got what could be expected from them on these issues.

TBH, anyone who voted for Fine Gael or Labour and is surprised by the path they've taken clearly wasn't paying much attention.

awec

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Usual boards whingers and begrudgers: "What we need is a party with new ideas willing to stand up for the people."

Sinn Fein announce new idea designed to stand up for the people.

Usual boards whingers and begrudgers: "Grumble, grumble, populists spoofers, unrealistic liars, Northern Bank, Jean McConville, grumble grumble, etc etc..."

I dont even think some people on Boards actually exist, they're just a computer programme that triggers when someone mentions Sinn Fein and posts a series of the usual preset slogans and cliches.

Yawn!

The ironic thing here is that if anyone criticises SF on here it's just a matter of time before you come along to defend them.

Yawn!

ScumLord

frfintanstack wrote: »

no legitimate national agenda? what does that even mean.

What am I voting for if I vote for one of the main parties? They've shown they're just throwing out sound bites to appease the angry mob. They all have the same agendas, they all have the same conservative policies, by default all I'm left with is independents.

Do you think your interests or your local area's interests are somehow insulated from what goes on in the rest of the country.....

I realise my position is self serving but there is no alternative I either vote for the best interests of my area or I throw my vote away on someone who has no intention of doing anything other than cash his check at the end of the week.

Crooked Jack

awec wrote: »

The ironic thing here is that if anyone criticises SF on here it's just a matter of time before you come along to defend them.

Yawn!

Criticise them surely, I have plenty of criticisms of my own on Sinn Fein, but that's never what happens here.
They are mentioned for one reason or another, in this case their policy on a certain tax, and then the same old cycle of off topic sniping, unfounded accusations and outright lies begins.
Hell, since I posted that two or three people have already popped up to blame Sinn Fein for the Northern Bank, Jean McConville and punishment shootings. All things Sinn Fein have condemned unreservedly.
Someone just implied Sinn Fein is against tax of any kind, a ludicrous thing to suggest, but because they said it about SF it's let go.
You couldnt post something like that about another party. If I were to start saying FF and FG are pro-aids and have a policy of starting all Dail sittings by jumping on a bag of kittens people would rightly come forward to say that's wrong and the likes of you wouldn't be crying that they "always defend FF/FG."

I'd love to have a discussion on SF's reaction this tax, i think it's an interesting topic and a great idea by SF. Sadly, that won't happen here.
Just the usual cycle of Sinn Fein terrorist/populist/economic illiterate catchphrases.

Bullseye1

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

TBH, anyone who voted for Fine Gael or Labour and is surprised by the path they've taken clearly wasn't paying much attention.

In fairness FG could have formed a government without Labour or the other main parties.

Chips Lovell

If people are discussing Bertie, plenty will invariably bring up his wins on the horses and the digouts.
If people are discussing Michael Lowry, there'll be plenty of talk about his dealings with the tribunals.
If people are discussing Haughey, we'll hear all about Ben Dunne and the Charvet shirts.

And if people are discussing Sinn Fein, we'll hear all about the robberies and murders. Yet somehow SF supporters are so sensitive that they greet this with howls of outrage.

What do they really expect? "We know you went around killing people for 30 years, but now that you're not doing it anymore, we won't mention it."

frfintanstack

ScumLord wrote: »

I realise my position is self serving but there is no alternative I either vote for the best interests of my area or I throw my vote away on someone who has no intention of doing anything other than cash his check at the end of the week.

but its not self serving...... Its directly contrary to your best interests voting to send someone to a national parliment who is only interested in local issues.


The only way to sort this country out is by action on a national level. be that main party or otherwise.

ScumLord

frfintanstack wrote: »

The only way to sort this country out is by action on a national level. be that main party or otherwise.

They've had their chance in my book. Fool me once and so on.. They won't change, the entire system almost makes it impossible for them to be anything other than a corrupt institution that breeds more corruption.

frfintanstack

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Hell, since I posted that two or three people have already popped up to blame Sinn Fein for the Northern Bank, Jean McConville and punishment shootings. All things Sinn Fein have condemned unreservedly.
Someone just implied Sinn Fein is against tax of any kind, a ludicrous thing to suggest, but because they said it about SF it's let go.
You couldnt post something like that about another party.

Oh man thats funny....you should be on stage.