Question on appeals

RATM

Just wondering about the right to appeal' I'll cut a long story short by saying I showed up 5 minutes late to my driving test. The examiner wouldn't let me sit it because of the 5 minutes, I have proof of this on a piece of paper from the RSA entitled 'Non-completion of driving test'.

Anyway I went to appeal it to the RSA directly who told me that appeals are under a statutory instrument namely http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0033.html#zza24y1961s33
There is more info here on the procedure
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_tests/appealing_your_driving_test_results.html

I'm looking at that legislation and no-where are my circumstances covered. It talks about people who have sat the test and have an issue with the actual test results. But I wasn't permitted to sit it to begin with.

I'm not going to take a District Court appeal against this at aside from the waste of everyones time it seems to be that the state solicitor could just get it struck out on the basis that I am not covered under the legislation.

But that then begs the question, if the legislation doesn't cover my circumstances and the RSA themselves are refusing to deal with it then where does my right to appeal lie ?
Am I correct to say that under the Irish Constitution every citizen has a right to appeal a state decision ? It would appear there is no mechanism here for me to do so ?

CIARAN_BOYLE

I don't think you can appeal all state decisions and I'm fairly sure there nothing about it in the constitution. Does Non-completion of driving test, ie you missing your appointment have any effect on you? You can just retest.

ResearchWill

RATM wrote: »

Just wondering about the right to appeal' I'll cut a long story short by saying I showed up 5 minutes late to my driving test. The examiner wouldn't let me sit it because of the 5 minutes, I have proof of this on a piece of paper from the RSA entitled 'Non-completion of driving test'.

Anyway I went to appeal it to the RSA directly who told me that appeals are under a statutory instrument namely http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0033.html#zza24y1961s33
There is more info here on the procedure
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_tests/appealing_your_driving_test_results.html

I'm looking at that legislation and no-where are my circumstances covered. It talks about people who have sat the test and have an issue with the actual test results. But I wasn't permitted to sit it to begin with.

I'm not going to take a District Court appeal against this at aside from the waste of everyones time it seems to be that the state solicitor could just get it struck out on the basis that I am not covered under the legislation.

But that then begs the question, if the legislation doesn't cover my circumstances and the RSA themselves are refusing to deal with it then where does my right to appeal lie ?
Am I correct to say that under the Irish Constitution every citizen has a right to appeal a state decision ? It would appear there is no mechanism here for me to do so ?

What advantage would an appeal serve. There has been no test, so the only option would be to re-sit the test, you can do that any way. An appeal allows you to prove that you in fact did the test and in fact passed. You never sat the test how can the appeal say you passed.

Tom Young

Yes, this is a moot point.

I'm not going to repeat what others said, but you'd more than likely get smacked with costs of taking such an appeal.

Reapply, be in time next time. Arrive 30 mins before the appointment.

RATM

Oh I know I can't appeal the results of a test I haven't sat, that's not what I'm getting at. I want to appeal the decision so I can save myself spending another €85 on a new one. It was literally 5 minutes late, I thought the examiner was being a bit unreasonable in not allowing 5 minutes in fairness, as would most people I think. Like if it was 10 or 15 I'd accept it but 5 is a bit of a joke. I got the distinct impression that the examiner was not willing to let the test go ahead as it would give him a free hour off work. The guy was vastly obese and wasn't exactly the liveliest person you'll ever meet.

Especially as on my last test I was there 10 minutes early and was kept waiting for 30 minutes before the thing actually started. It seems like one rule for them and another for the public :mad:

I contacted the RSA who say that the only appeal is the District Court yet clearly my circumstance are not covered under said laws. So surely the RSA should have some sort of internal appeals system to cover matter that are outside the remit of that legislation ?

It isn't just the €85 I am down here. I now have to spend another €55 on a new license as my current one is out of date in 3 weeks. I'll also have to spend another €235 on another pre-test and hiring a motorbike from my bike instructor. So the 5 minutes late has cost me the guts of €370. I accept I was late but who hasn't been 5 minutes late, it happens, we're human after all. But I'm accepting the other losees but wanna see if there is any way of getting the next test without have to repay the €85

ResearchWill

RATM wrote: »

Oh I know I can't appeal the results of a test I haven't sat, that's not what I'm getting at. I want to appeal the decision so I can save myself spending another €85 on a new one. It was literally 5 minutes late, I thought the examiner was being a bit unreasonable in not allowing 5 minutes in fairness, as would most people I think. Like if it was 10 or 15 I'd accept it but 5 is a bit of a joke. I got the distinct impression that the examiner was not willing to let the test go ahead as it would give him a free hour off work. The guy was vastly obese and wasn't exactly the liveliest person you'll ever meet.

Especially as on my last test I was there 10 minutes early and was kept waiting for 30 minutes before the thing actually started. It seems like one rule for them and another for the public :mad:

I contacted the RSA who say that the only appeal is the District Court yet clearly my circumstance are not covered under said laws. So surely the RSA should have some sort of internal appeals system to cover matter that are outside the remit of that legislation ?

It isn't just the €85 I am down here. I now have to spend another €55 on a new license as my current one is out of date in 3 weeks. I'll also have to spend another €235 on another pre-test and hiring a motorbike from my bike instructor. So the 5 minutes late has cost me the guts of €370. I accept I was late but 5 who hasn't been 5 minutes late, it happens, we're human after all.

The only way I can think of to do what you want is the nuclear option. That is the Judicial Review the decision in the High Court. Costs exposure would be huge. A possible other option that may be cheaper is to pay out all the money to resit, and then sue of tha amount in the DC. But I really don't think either option will work.

From the RSA website

"Day of the test

You should be present in the test centre before the appointed time of your test. If you are late, the test cannot be conducted and the fee will be forfeit."

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Learner-Drivers/The-Driving-Test/What-it-is/

As you can see from above it just says if you are late, it does not give any time limit. Also it says a person should be present before the test.

Peregrinus

Yup. There is no test outcome to appeal against, because there has been no test.

What you can do, as ResearchWill says, is seek to have the decision not to let you sit the test set aside, by having it judicially reviewed and arguing that the tester had no right to make that decision or that no reasonable tester, in those circumstances, would have made that decision.

Should you succeed (which is uncertain, to put it no higher) your remedy will be a court order directing them to let you sit the test. But you can acheive this much more certainly, quickly, easily and cheaply by applying to resit the test. Yes, you'll have to pay a second test fee, but that will cost a tiny, tiny, infinitisemally small fraction of what it would cost you to run the judicial review action.

Benbulnen64

Agree with Peregrinus here. It would be an absolute waste of yours and everyone else's time and money to pursue an administrative law remedy in this situation...