The Motorhome Association

niloc1951

I came across THIS SITE while surfing this evening.

It looks like some of the clubs and a couple of individuals have come together as an umbrella group to lobby for stuff on behalf of all camper owners, North and South.

Their main thing at the moment seems to be to get French type of aires here.
It would be great if we had a decent few and no longer had to 'tough it out' in places we are not wanted.

The links to the newspaper articles about the campsite owner in Ballybunion complaining about campers last year and wanting them banned and this year the traders of the same town complaining that the site not opening for Easter will be bad for their business. All I can say is 'wake up lads' what ye need is a decent Aire

bq125rex

my wife is chair of the association she has worked tirelessly to promote our form of tourism. the picture is developing rapidly you can e mail her on b.quinn996@btinternet.com or Chris_Quinn@themotorhomeassociation.org regards bq125rex

AutostratusEB

Good stuff. I'm up for the fight if ye are. Where do we sign up/ get involved?

bq125rex

We don`t fight that dos`nt work. We have lobbied both the Irish Tourism Minister and the Northern Ireland Tourism Minister and have made remarkable progress. we have had a motorhome insight day which resulted in recognition that our form of tourism is different than camping and caravanning. We are now recognised by the nitb and are invited to meetings in our own right. On the upside we have aquired a new aires in Donaghadee Co Down this adds to service points in Carrickfergus Co Antrim ,Broughshane Co Antrim, Whitehead Co Antrim, Annalong Co Down, new aires comming on stream Portglenone Co Antrim,
Portrush on the Antrim Coast, Ebrington in Co Londonderry. There is also work going on for another 5 in the areas from co down through Louth Meath and Monaghan We also negotiated a plan to use waterways ireland service points on the Erne/Shannon waterway a pilot scheme is being rolled out.
to subscribe contact themotorhomeassociation.org regards bq125rex

AutostratusEB

bq125rex wrote: »

We don`t fight that dos`nt work. We have lobbied both the Irish Tourism Minister and the Northern Ireland Tourism Minister and have made remarkable progress. we have had a motorhome insight day which resulted in recognition that our form of tourism is different than camping and caravanning. We are now recognised by the nitb and are invited to meetings in our own right. On the upside we have aquired a new aires in Donaghadee Co Down this adds to service points in Carrickfergus Co Antrim ,Broughshane Co Antrim, Whitehead Co Antrim, Annalong Co Down, new aires comming on stream Portglenone Co Antrim,
Portrush on the Antrim Coast, Ebrington in Co Londonderry. There is also work going on for another 5 in the areas from co down through Louth Meath and Monaghan We also negotiated a plan to use waterways ireland service points on the Erne/Shannon waterway a pilot scheme is being rolled out.
to subscribe contact themotorhomeassociation.org regards bq125rex

Sorry I meant "fight" in a figurative sense. That's some progress, would love to help/add my voice over here in the west. Will do as you suggest
Best..

Motorhomers

It seems that some good work has been going on. I have been looking for some online reference to the Motorhome association since I first saw it mentioned on Motorhomecraic.com.

I would be interested in getting involved and offering assistance as mentioned on your web page. Can you please confirm the following...

Is the association an unincorporated association?
Is the association governed by Irish or UK law?

niloc1951

Motorhomers wrote: »

It seems that some good work has been going on. I have been looking for some online reference to the Motorhome association since I first saw it mentioned on Motorhomecraic.com.

I would be interested in getting involved and offering assistance as mentioned on your web page. Can you please confirm the following...

Is the association an unincorporated association?
Is the association governed by Irish or UK law?

The Motorhome Association looks like a 'coming together' of a number of parties (clubs/individuals) to present a single voice when dealing with Government Agencies on matters of concern/benefit for all who use motorhomes in Ireland, a sort of formal lobby group. Their website seems to be fairly self explanatory.

It looks like they are concentrating on lobbying the tourist agencies and local authorities both north and south to get French Style Aires up and running all over the island, which can only be a good thing to help bring foreign motorhome tourists over here and for us locals too.

What does the unincorporation mean and as the association seems to be basically a lobby group perhaps it's covered by the same laws as any other lobby group with with interests covering both north and south.
From looking at it's website I can't see anything which might make it fall foul of any laws, it's not selling anything, apart from the idea that we should have Aire type parking here for motorhomes, then I'm not a lawyer.

Motorhomers

Thank you for your answer as the association maybe have not yet seen my question. An unincorporated association has no separate legal personality of its own. A big disadvantage of this is that any members of the association could be personally liable for any actions the association makes. I personally would avoid such a group as I could find myself liable for someone else's mistakes in the future.

I have read their website and this is not stated anywhere that I can find. If I am wrong i would be happy if someone could correct me.

I agree the idea is a great one and has great potential. However an association working on as serious a topic as this should at least consider making this known. Thanks again

Irishgoatman

As bqi25rex appears to be on-line at the moment perhaps he or his wife could answer Motorhomers questions please?.

niloc1951

Motorhomers wrote: »

Thank you for your answer as the association maybe have not yet seen my question. An unincorporated association has no separate legal personality of its own. A big disadvantage of this is that any members of the association could be personally liable for any actions the association makes. I personally would avoid such a group as I could find myself liable for someone else's mistakes in the future.

I have read their website and this is not stated anywhere that I can find. If I am wrong i would be happy if someone could correct me.

I agree the idea is a great one and has great potential. However an association working on as serious a topic as this should at least consider making this known. Thanks again

Thanks for the explanation of unincorporated and I see your point, but as I understand it from their website The Motorhome Association is simply a lobby group and I fail to see what actions they could take or mistake they could make which could cause somebody to end up in 'hotwater' with the law.

After all, lobby groups, action groups, or whatever one wishes to call them, are many and varied and exist to promote the interests of numerous sectors. It is easy to get hung up on legal jargon and doomsday scenarios but I for one would give my wholehearted support for any bunch of energetic people, whether they call themselves and an association, a group, a band of brothers, or whatever, so long as I feel they are putting energy (within the law of the land of course) into the betterment of something I have an interest in.

Having spent many hundreds of nights enjoying the benefits of 'Aires' throughout Europe, I for one, would fully support the objectives of The Motorhome Association.

odds_on

I was talking recently to a local counsellor and enquired as to why the local town did not have some form of "aire". Her reply, in simple terms, was that if somewhere was open and available, in all likelihood, within a very short time, it would be occupied not by camper people, but by members of the travelling community and once they were there it would be very difficult and expensive to move them.

niloc1951

odds_on wrote: »

I was talking recently to a local counsellor and enquired as to why the local town did not have some form of "aire". Her reply, in simple terms, was that if somewhere was open and available, in all likelihood, within a very short time, it would be occupied not by camper people, but by members of the travelling community and once they were there it would be very difficult and expensive to move them.

A typical reaction.
However, the European practice of banning camping in public areas and making it an offence like other bye-laws, for example parking bye-laws, is an easy method of dealing with the setting up of unregulated camp sites by any community.
There is no need to 'move on' people, just fine them for 'camping' where it's prohibited and if they want to engage in camping they will have to move to where it is permitted, be it a caravan and camping park, or on some private or municipal land

Motorhomers

niloc1951 wrote: »

Thanks for the explanation of unincorporated and I see your point, but as I understand it from their website The Motorhome Association is simply a lobby group

Really?
If they call themselves an Association they should abide by the rules and guidelines governing associations.
If they are a lobby group perhaps they should call themselves that.

When they make their constitution public I will be happy to read it.

odds_on

niloc1951 wrote: »

A typical reaction.
However, the European practice of banning camping in public areas and making it an offence like other bye-laws, for example parking bye-laws, is an easy method of dealing with the setting up of unregulated camp sites by any community.
There is no need to 'move on' people, just fine them for 'camping' where it's prohibited and if they want to engage in camping they will have to move to where it is permitted, be it a caravan and camping park, or on some private or municipal land

And if the person in question decides that they are not going to move and refuse to pay a fine.What will happen?

An eventual court case, after months or maybe years, the person claims their "right" as a member of the traveller community. And councils do not have any spare money to spend on this sort of thing - the easy way out is to not have "aires".

niloc1951

odds_on wrote: »

And if the person in question decides that they are not going to move and refuse to pay a fine.What will happen?

An eventual court case, after months or maybe years, the person claims their "right" as a member of the traveller community. And councils do not have any spare money to spend on this sort of thing - the easy way out is to not have "aires"..

I am a motorhome owner, I like 'Aires' because I have invested in a vehicle with onboard facilities (shower, toilet, kitchen, electrical power and gas power).

I would like to have an abundance of 'Aires' here in Ireland like on The Continent. I do use campsites occasionally but not as a rule as I generally have no need of the facilities I am required to pay for if I park on their premises.

As can be seen from my posts I an an avid supporter of the initiatives taken in Northern Ireland and the provision of 'Aires' there.

The raising of issues in relation to the abuse of such facilities in this jurisdiction, be it by members of The Travelling Community or members of The Settled Community, is in my opinion a ploy by those with an interest in maintaining the status quo in this country and denying those of us who seek to have a choice between campsites and 'Aires' the opportunity to so choose.

My colours are firmly nailed to the mast, where are yours. It would be interesting to know where you stand, and the others posting on this thread trying to subtly undermine the objectives of The Motorhome Association.
Do ye stand with those motorhome owners who honestly think 'Aires' are an abomination (everyone is entitled to an honest opinion), those who have yet to understand the benefits of the concept, or with the campsite owners who for understandable reasons fear such a development.
Incidentally, perhaps those campsite owners who fear the arrival of 'Aires' should look to their counterparts in Europe who provide the option of full price camping plots or low price 'Aire' type parking within their enterprise, thereby having and providing the best of both worlds.

As regards The Motorhome Association. I am in full agreement with their objectives. Those who seek to undermine the viability of the initiative are doing no service to the significant number of motorhome users who would like the option of 'Aires', I say 'significant number' as the sector is sufficiently large enough to support the publication of numerous printed and web based guides, in English,French, German, Spanish, Dutch, Italian, etc., dedicated to listing the over 16,000 'Aires' already in existence throughout Europe.

Would it not be better if those who are expressing 'concerns' about constitutions, incorporation, unincorporation, which jurisdictions laws it's under, etc., etc., just posted opinion based on their honest reasons as to why the objectives of the association should not be supported instead of attempting to undermine its credibility and viability by using thinly veiled 'concerns' that anyone associated with The Motorhome Association could end up in trouble with the civil or criminal law. If people have genuine concerns that The Motorhome Association might be in some way deficient in it's make-up might I suggest direct contact with the association would be a better option than this public forum.

However, it appears to me having read all the posts in this thread and those on another website, that, as is unfortunately the case in this world in which we live, there are some who seem to think that if a message can't be fairly discredited it seems to be fair game to put out mis-information and/or to try and publicly discredit the messenger, a ploy which is over 2,000 years old.

odds_on

I was talking recently to a local counsellor and enquired as to why the local town did not have some form of "aire".

The first sentence of my first post in this thread would indicate that I am for "aires". Otherwise my question would not have been in the affirmative.

I think that any town or village that provides some kind of facility for the motorhome owner is likely to benefit the town is some way.
Food has to be bought - some on a daily basis.
Owners are likely to go to the pub and/or restaurants in the town.
Tourist activities will be used.
Heritage sites and other sites of national importance will be visited.

The French have certainly proved the usefulness of an aire to their local community, thus there are thousands of aires through the country - some free, some with a minimal charge and others which charge to use certain motorhome facilities.

I was pointing out the reason / excuse that a local counsellor gave me when I asked why the (seaside) town did not have one of its dedicated parking areas open to accommodate motorhomes.

Irishgoatman

I, for one, do not wish to get involved in any arguments on this subject but what I can't understand is that bq125rex, the husband of the Chairperson of this lobby group, came on to boards very quickly following the first posting by niloc1951, opened an account, made 2 postings and now has closed his account.

When I suggested that he, bq125rex or his wife, would be the person to get the answers for Motorhomers the light was on showing that he was on line.
Whilst I appreciate that no-one is under any obligation to answer posts I would have thought that it would have been in the interest of this group to do so in this instance.

Martin_D

Nicol1951 is on fire.

I agree with him. I'm not a regular poster (I do follow the Forum) but am somewhat doubtful about newer posters who appear to knock something or challenge an argument without a bit of history to go on to judge their bona fides (some posters it seems have a vested interest in the counter argument such as a campsite owner posing as an anonymous poster arguing against Aires but not declaring their interest).
As a relatively new Motorhomer I am a bit nervous about wild camping in Ireland (have done it in France) and noting the relative scarcity of campsites (certainly near villages etc) I would use Aires if available and really cannot understand the almost blanket objections to establishing them in many local authority areas. Plenty of controls can be used including a reasonable fee (yes a deterrent to permanent road side dwellers).
Any pressure than can be exerted to try to win over the doubters is to be welcomed.

Irishgoatman

I don't have any worries about wild camping, I do it all of the time.

Mind you, with having a small camper, not much bigger than a 4 x 4, wild camping for me can often be using Tesco car parks or a quiet side street.:D

Motorhomers

Closed his account?
It appears my questions may not be answered by him then!!!

I also found it strange that he joined within hours of the original post by niloc1951. But then he was able to promote the work of the association. Maybe he would prefer to avoid questions just like he did over on Motorhomecraic.com.

I also do not want to get involved in any arguments but would like to hear some answers so I can make my own mind up. This is proving to be difficult and not really giving me much confidence in an association which claims to represent motorhome owners.

niloc1951

Motorhomers wrote: »

Closed his account?
It appears my questions may not be answered by him then!!!

I also found it strange that he joined withing hours of the original post by niloc1951. But then he was able to promote the work of the association. Maybe he would prefer to avoid questions just like he did over on Motorhomecraic's.com.

I also do not want to get involved in any arguments but would like to hear some answers so I can make my own mind up. This is proving to be difficult and not really giving me much confidence in an association which claims to represent motorhome owners.

I, for one, like to have answers too. I have a habit of researching thoroughly any subject I have an interest in, many will remember my involvement in the campaign to get motor caravans tested in line with EU Directives. And my insistence (proven in court) that, contrary to the mis-information put out by the RSA and others, at the time there was no legal requirement enshrined in Irish law that such testing was required.

My current line of interest is in the promotion of Aires de Stationnement pour Camping-cars here in Ireland (North and South). Having acquainted myself with the people who started the lobby group which is known as The Motorhome Association, their aspirations, and the aspirations of others who have 'put their shoulder to the wheel' and the contents of their website I, unlike 'motorhomers' have found the answers to all my questions within the pages of the website.

Regarding unanswered questions, some questions have no answer and others have answers so obvious that raising them in the first instance is facetious and not deserving of an answer.

The Motorhome Association ticks all my boxes and I can understand that it may not tick all the boxes for others, it's a free world. But, just because something fails to fit ones own measure does not mean it is not fit for another's.

I also find some thing in life 'strange', one of which is motorhomers line of interest in The Motorhome Association

vive la différence

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I don't have any worries about wild camping, I do it all of the time.

Mind you, with having a small camper, not much bigger than a 4 x 4, wild camping for me can often be using Tesco car parks or a quiet side street.:D

Don't you mean 'parking' your camper, like a car.

The difference is here

Motorhomers

If you read my first post in this thread you will see I fully intend to support what I feel is a very good idea. I have made use of aires in France and love the idea of them available in Ireland.
Good luck to the Motorhome association in their endeavours but I now feel I will not get MY answers here.

killalanerr

If this thread is about aires,then yes as someone who has used them in france i would love to see a similar network of aires be developed in ireland to add to the ones we already have,if its about puting together a lobby group to achieve this aim again i would love to see such a lobby group succeed
As for the local councillors comments well thats just a cop out the benefits for local businesses from a well placed and maintained aire far outweigh any problems that may arise
I was in the Palmyre aires when an issue arose with some campers on the site within an hour the police arrived the campers were asked to provide a viable home address they were unable to do this and after a short time the local tow company arrived and removed the offending vehicle,after talking to some of the locals it was explained to me that if you do not uphold the local bylaws re the use of the aires this is what happens all at the cost of the offender,it goes without saying if you play by the rules you will have no problems
http://www.airetoday.co.uk/aire%20la%20palmyre.html

niloc1951

Motorhomers wrote: »

If you read my first post in this thread you will see I fully intend to support what I feel is a very good idea. I have made use of aires in France and love the idea of them available in Ireland.
Good luck to the Motorhome association in their endeavours but I now feel I will not get MY answers here.

Now, I find the above post 'strange', it seems that while it indicates support for The Motorhome Association it still contains reference to 'unanswered questions', other posts by the same poster only serve to undermine its position and viability by subtly suggesting it may have something amiss or illegal about the way it <The Motorhome Association> is put together.

It is 'strange' also that motorhomers still labours the unanswered questions issue .

As Marcellus said in Hamlet, "something is rotten in the state of Denmark" and I'm not referring to The Motorhome association

Motorhomers

Twist it whatever way you like but I would have been happy to join or help in any way possible. I cannot trust an association which fails to answer or avoids questions. Good luck to them. I really hope it works for them. I will not ask any more questions in the hope they will return and keep everyone informed. Sorry if I appear to be difficult but that is just not true.

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

Don't you mean 'parking' your camper, like a car.

The difference is here

I feel really gutted:o. All this time I thought that I was really roughing it and actually "wild camping" and all I was actually doing was "Parking". You live and learn.:D

niloc1951

Motorhomers wrote: »

Twist it whatever way you like but I would have been happy to join or help in any way possible. I cannot trust an association which fails to answer or avoids questions. Good luck to them. I really hope it works for them. I will not ask any more questions in the hope they will return and keep everyone informed. Sorry if I appear to be difficult but that is just not true.

I really have no desire to pursue this issue any further, but I am intrigued by someone who 'is happy to join or help something in which they say they have no trust in and also appear to desire to distance him/her self from them'

Motorhomers

Whatever!