..."Irish" SORN on the way.....

Gary ITR

dgt wrote: »

Last count was 19.... I'm trying to get shut of a lot of them, unsuccessfully

Thats almost 500 notes if the 25quid rumours are to be believed :eek:

dgt

Gary ITR wrote: »

Thats almost 500 notes if the 25quid rumours are to be believed :eek:

That's the problem I see, I've googled the topic and can't find a recent news article. Tis all hearsay so far...

500, I can live with that per year. Pretty annoying as about half of them are shells/engineless.

Ideally, I'd like to just have about 4 to my name. I'm trying to get them down to that!

Esel

ligertigon wrote: »

If a southern reg car is imported to the north, (gets yellow reg). Is it free to re vrt back down here again?

Yes. You get the original registration number back.

R.O.R

Charging for a SORN is a stupid idea, and €25 is quite a lot for something that should be more or less automated.

Hopefully, if it does come in to place, then the penalties for driving a SORN vehicle will mirror those in the UK - confiscation of the vehicle from the road side.

I seem to remember there will be something set up for dealers / motor trade, wonder if they'll actually let us know before it happens, unlike the NFD which we found out about, from a customer, 2 days before it came in to effect. Have anywhere between 5-150 cars off the road here at any one time, and that could be an administrative nightmare.

MugMugs

You're basically being taxed for not being liable to pay any tax......

The Bishop Basher

Senecio wrote: »

Do people not understand you have to look at total cost of ownership. I'm quite happy that I can afford to purchase a pre-08 car because of the tax. The money I saved on initial purchase buys me a hell of a lot of tax over the next 5 years. The difference is, I'm driving a car I enjoy instead of a 1.2 lt diesel.

But it's not all about you. Some people had already bought pre 08 cars that effectively became worthless over night as a result of the greens tax policy and to add insult to injury they have been made even more worthless by subsequent budgets.

Swanner

Swanner wrote: »

..........Some people had already bought pre 08 cars that effectively became worthless over night as a result of the greens tax policy ....................

Do give an example of a car that has become effectively worthless overnight as a result of the greens policy, the example should ideally incorporate an approximation of the expected value if no changes in the tax system had taken place and also should factor in what degree of the "worthless" issue is due to actual motor tax and what degree is due to the general state of the economy.

I recently spent quite a while looking at pre 08 vehicles and didn't notice any that struck me as overly cheap tbh.

I think the worthless car due to motor tax changes is a myth on boards.ie.

Henry Ford III

RoverJames wrote: »

Do give an example of a car that has become effectively worthless overnight as a result of the greens policy, the example should ideally incorporate an approximation of the expected value if no changes in the tax system had taken place and also should factor in what degree of the "worthless" issue is due to actual motor tax and what degree is due to the general state of the economy.

I recently spent quite a while looking at pre 08 vehicles and didn't notice any that struck me as overly cheap tbh.

I think the worthless car due to motor tax changes is a myth on boards.ie.

It'd be interesting so compare 07 and 08 diesels to see just how wide the gap is.

corktina

theres a lot of scaremongering going on on this subject, probably by people who don't want the so-called loophole closed

Bring it on, I say!

00833827

How are they going to explain the reason for a charge to do this - taxed not to pay a tax? I presume the UK procedure is not charged for. If the car is on private property and not being driven there wont be any incentive to pay the fee and declare it SORN, just a bit of hassle/explaining when you do want to tax it.

Will they say its for admin costs? The whole thing could be automated simply enough.

With the ANPR cars still very few and far between, outside of Dublin anyway, then you still have this kind of approach going on:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligochampion/news/altered-tax-cert-27572558.html
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligochampion/news/driver-who-denied-altering-a-tax-disc-had-guilt-written-all-over-him-27570147.html

never mind the penalty for no tax being low, even the penalty for forging tax is not so much of a deterrent - depending on the car tax amount obviously.

Them Sligo lads must be handy with the photoshop;-)

Senecio

Swanner wrote: »

But it's not all about you. Some people had already bought pre 08 cars that effectively became worthless over night as a result of the greens tax policy and to add insult to injury they have been made even more worthless by subsequent budgets.

I understand its not all about me. But its my situation and I'm allowed to share it on a public forum. I'm quite certain I'm not on my own however.

We've all made decisions in our lives that were perfectly sound at the time that have since gone on to haunt us later in life through no fault of our own. No one has a crystal ball.

We can accept our fate and make the most of what we're dealt with or blame someone else and whinge about it.

Back on topic, declaring a vehicle off the road after driving it for any length of time with out tax is fraud. I'm glad they are trying to close the loophole.

munchkin_utd

00833827 wrote: »

How are they going to explain the reason for a charge to do this - taxed not to pay a tax? I presume the UK procedure is not charged for. If the car is on private property and not being driven there wont be any incentive to pay the fee and declare it SORN, just a bit of hassle/explaining when you do want to tax it.

Will they say its for admin costs? The whole thing could be automated simply enough. <snip>

indeed, the IT systems that will allow you to do it "automatically" also magically provide themselves for free as do webserver hosting services and all the tech support behind that.

In absolute terms €25 euro is very much a moderate cost and a tank of fuel would cost you multiple of that so I dont quite see what the fuss is. I only have a car the past few years and I am stunned at how much cash it extracts from me (and that with only 130euro a year tax!)

That deregistering is free now is somewhat irrelevant and if anything the garda time in making a declaration and office time in the council taken up in processing the paper work shouldnt have been free in the first place.

MidlandsM

€25 to put a classic in a shed for the winter to declare it "of the road" - CNUTS.

00833827

munchkin_utd wrote: »

indeed, the IT systems that will allow you to do it "automatically" also magically provide themselves for free as do webserver hosting services and all the tech support behind that.

no - hosting is already in place and paid for (www.motortax.ie), its just an extra function of this service - when you pay your motor tax online, besides charging your credit card, the motor database is updated/new records added to reflect this new period of taxation has been paid for - the SORN procedure will just be a similar use case -

I said it can be automated - meaning a €25 admin fee - if its billed as such - would be hard to explain. I didn't suggest things happen automatically or magically as you put it - just that much of whats needed to make take this approach is already in place.

gambithh

op is spoofing us,no legislation passed yesterday as stated,no mention of it in media.

i have little doubt its on the way in the future but lets not fill our pants with rusty water just yet.

Henry Ford III

MidlandsM wrote: »

€25 to put a classic in a shed for the winter to declare it "of the road" - CNUTS.

Classic car tax is buttons for the year. €48 I think.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

MidlandsM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Classic car tax is buttons for the year. €48 I think.

I'm not talking about tax, and a modern classic may not be eligable for vintage tax.

its just another charge on the classic car owner, this proposal, I have no issue with a SORN system,. but i do with a charge to declare a car SORN'd

listermint

corktina wrote: »

theres a lot of scaremongering going on on this subject, probably by people who don't want the so-called loophole closed

Bring it on, I say!

How is it scaremongering when we are being told there is an 'unreasonable charge' to declare a vehicle off the road.

Ive no issue with the other elements of it, but charging for it is another disgusting trait that you outwardly appear to be happy about. Also Roverjames are per usual seems to be an apologist for the decision making. All the while trying to look like he is giving valid answers for the black hole they find the current tax system to be in.

Its not the citizens fault the motor tax system is a bloody joke of a mess in this country and you have a fool of a man in charge of sorting it out who just makes bad decision after bad decision.

Im sick of this crap. Its ridiculous. And whats more ridiculous is you have supposed motor lovers in here standing up for it. Most petrol heads i know have multiple vehicles depending on budgets and time of year. I find it hilarious that the usual suspects are still in here standing up on pedestals trumpeting this sort of nonsense as being both reasonable and logical.

The facts are they are hoping to scare all the young people out of the country which has been succesful to date. and tax the arse out of the ordinary worker. Well its bloody well working. Because this is exactly where the gaps in their tax system are coming from.

It self evident that you tip the balance on taxes .. sorry 'charges' and the are completely unfair and totally ineffective.

Labour Out. Fine Gael Out.


Blood suckers.

galwaytt

gambithh wrote: »

op is spoofing us,no legislation passed yesterday as stated,no mention of it in media.

i have little doubt its on the way in the future but lets not fill our pants with rusty water just yet.

I'm the OP - maybe you should re-read my post, then ?

What I said was, my SO heard it on the radio, yesterday, and I asked if anyone else had heard it.

galwaytt wrote: »

....the SO just heard on the radio that the SORN system is coming at €25 a go.......did anyone else hear it ?

..or do you want English lessons with that ?

Saab Ed

Rabbo wrote: »

Makes perfect sense.
The current system is being blatantly abused by many.

Because we're blantantly abused by the system.

galwaytt

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Classic car tax is buttons for the year. €48 I think.

Yes, you're right. But you're talking about road-capable, or working, classics.

What about all the (loads & loads) of non-working ones - and motorbikes, and tractors, and vans, and trucks and.............there are many people who have many, many 'vehicles' - a great qty of which will never see the road again, despite The Best Laid Plans of their owners (I include myself here btw....).

What about those ?

listermint

listermint wrote: »

..........Also Roverjames are per usual seems to be an apologist for the decision making. .............. Most petrol heads i know have multiple vehicles depending on budgets and time of year. ....................

I haven't commented on the €25 charge that may or may not be a true representation of government plans.

I'll repeat myself for the umpteenth time, motor tax is feck all compared to income tax etc, it's a drop in the ocean. I'm not being an apologist I can see why they did what they did. They could have done worse imo, by lashing the entire increases on the emissions based folks, who are just the same as the rest of us, especially years after 2008.

I do find it strange how someone who bought an M3 relatively recently constantly seems in a fit of rage over a quite small increase in motor tax that in the overall cost of running an M3 is quite simply sweet f all.

Most petrol heads you know have multiple vehicles? Another stretch of the truth but work away

Labour and FG out, and who do you want in? FF, SF, some new party????

Bohrio

I always find this motor tax thingie a bit of an issue.

As some might know I barely use my car, in fact, I put 20 euro in January and still have petrol left.

I tried using the car 4 weeks ago to go to work as weather was horrible and I was running late. The car had run out of battery so I couldnt drive it in the end, to the very same saturday jumped started the car and went for a little drive just to charge the battery (i dont like having a car without battery, just in case of an emergency). This morning I decided to use the car for the first time this month, jumped started it and drove for a few minutes so the battery will charge up. This 10 minutes drive will cost me around 533 euro as I will now have to pay tax for this month.

But the main problem is not that, I probably wont use the car next month either, but if I do, and I feel I want to go for a little drive, for example on sunday, the drive will cost me around 600 euro, for a one day driving experience? Now that I think about it I could actually rent a ferrari for a day and wont need to worry about paying motor tax...

Everyday I find it harder and harder to justify... sorry but I do, I find the motor tax completely unfair and unjustifiable in some cases.

And I hate it when people say, well its the law... well yes it is, but that doesnt make it right or fair

galwaytt

RoverJames wrote: »

Let's be clear here

I Don't consider motor tax on 1.6, 1.8 or 2.0 cars on the cc system to be too much as they currently stand. Over 2.5 gets looney admittedly but only the minority are effected by them.

Then you are living in a parallel universe to me, then.

I have had to park the SO's dd and change to bangernomics - as witnessed in other threads lately - solely because of motor tax.

Our new steed - a 13 yr, 96k mile, old Seicento btw - cost more to tax, at €337, than a Ministers 520d, for example (€270). Or more than a €52k Audi A4.

You think that's equitable, do you ?

Henry Ford III

MidlandsM wrote: »

I'm not talking about tax, and a modern classic may not be eligable for vintage tax.

its just another charge on the classic car owner, this proposal, I have no issue with a SORN system,. but i do with a charge to declare a car SORN'd

I think you need to think this through:-

Take a 3l high tax modern classic. Tax costs €1494p.a, or €829 for 6 months, or €424 for 3 months. Expensive, but that's just the way it is.

Strikes me that €25 to stop the motor tax liability clock running is actually a bit of a bargain. It's a lot cheaper than a further 3 months costing €424.

listermint

RoverJames wrote: »

I haven't commented on the €25 charge that may or may not be a true representation of government plans.


I do find it strange how someone who bought an M3 relatively recently constantly seems in a fit of range over a quite small increase in motor tax that in the overall cost of running an M3 is quite simply sweet f all.

Most petrol heads you know have multiple vehicles? Another stretch of the truth but work away

Labour and FG out, and who do you want in? FF, SF, some new party????

How is that a stretch of the Truth, I know of at least 15-20 people that have minimum of 2 cars. 25% of them have x3.

Finanically it makes sense for them to tax them on the road over the summer and keep it off the road during the winter.

What does my M3 have anything to do with the tax system ?
Nothing is the answer.

If you think the tax system in this country is fair balanced and reasonable. Add to that that it is managed and costed in an efficient and appropriate way then you belong in there beside vradkar in office because it makes you as clueless as he is. Ivory towers.

Henry Ford III

Bohrio wrote: »

I always find this motor tax thingie a bit of an issue.

As some might know I barely use my car, in fact, I put 20 euro in January and still have petrol left.

I tried using the car 4 weeks ago to go to work as weather was horrible and I was running late. The car had run out of battery so I couldnt drive it in the end, to the very same saturday jumped started the car and went for a little drive just to charge the battery (i dont like having a car without battery, just in case of an emergency). This morning I decided to use the car for the first time this month, jumped started it and drove for a few minutes so the battery will charge up. This 10 minutes drive will cost me around 533 euro as I will now have to pay tax for this month.

But the main problem is not that, I probably wont use the car next month either, but if I do, and I feel I want to go for a little drive, for example on sunday, the drive will cost me around 600 euro, for a one day driving experience? Now that I think about it I could actually rent a ferrari for a day and wont need to worry about paying motor tax...

Everyday I find it harder and harder to justify... sorry but I do, I find the motor tax completely unfair and unjustifiable in some cases.

And I hate it when people say, well its the law... well yes it is, but that doesnt make it right or fair

Tax frequently isn't right or fair.

listermint

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I think you need to think this through:-

Take a 3l high tax modern classic. Tax costs €1494p.a, or €829 for 6 months, or €424 for 3 months. Expensive, but that's just the way it is.

Strikes me that €25 to stop the motor tax liability clock running is actually a bit of a bargain. It's a lot cheaper than a further 3 months costing €424.

Why in the hell does it require a charge ?

And why in the hell is the charge 25 Euro?

If the system was designed properly it would be cost efficient and pay for itself with the existing motor taxes.

Enough of these offices. Get everything online or by post. As usual we are 10 years behind everyone else.

MidlandsM

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I think you need to think this through:-

Take a 3l high tax modern classic. Tax costs €1494p.a, or €829 for 6 months, or €424 for 3 months. Expensive, but that's just the way it is.

Strikes me that €25 to stop the motor tax liability clock running is actually a bit of a bargain. It's a lot cheaper than a further 3 months costing €424.

NO . .... there should be no charge to stay the right side of the law.

Saab Ed

Why not just put everybody's tax up by €300 per year and an extra charge of plus 20% on cars taxed under the new emissions system.

We should also charge €100 to keep it off the road, €35 to transfer the owners name and while we're at it, why make you print your own tax disc Ryanair style. Otherwise its another €10 for a printed disc.

So tell me high horse brigade, what would you do if they came you with this? It's tax, you'd surely have to be a good little citizen and pay. And before you go spouting off about these being hypothetical scenarios, these figures wouldn't be out of line with the proportion of extra taxes levelled at us in other departments. They are a very real possibility .

High horses, you roll over and take it if you want. Fair play is good sport and all that. Just taking it up the jacksy is the reason we are where we are today.

galwaytt

galwaytt wrote: »

.................
I have had to park the SO's dd and change to bangernomics - as witnessed in other threads lately - solely because of motor tax..............You think that's equitable, do you ?

I think that's utter h0rse sh1t.

Your finances might have dictated the need to do so but it's hardly the fault of motor tax, solely. Let's not get carried away now.

Plenty of other cars that are cheap to tax aside from 13 year old Seicentos, but do keep trying to blame motor tax, there are enough gnomes out there that'll be happy to believe it.

listermint

RoverJames wrote: »

I think that's utter h0rse sh1t.

Your finances might have dictated the need to do so but it's hardly the fault of motor tax, solely. Let's not get carried away now.

Plenty of other cars that are cheap to tax aside from 13 year old Seicentos, but do keep trying to blame motor tax, there are enough gnomes out there that'll be happy to believe it.

Id imagine it along with all the other horses*&t being thrown at people in this country is the problem rover. But sure you go on living in la la land.

There are enough gnomes in this country being fed off the average worker. with little regard for what is actually happening out there. theres your real garden gnomes.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

..............
If you think the tax system in this country is fair balanced and reasonable. Add to that that it is managed and costed in an efficient and appropriate way then you belong in there beside vradkar in office because it makes you as clueless as he is. Ivory towers.

Please do show where I alluded to any of that ?

You are a great la for throwing out speels of sh1t that you coin yourself and someone try to make out that it's someone elses view.

I have repeatedly voiced my disgust at the USC on the motors forum, motor tax in comparison to that is a tiny amount for most people.

Where you get the idea above from (the bit I've quoted) I'll never know. I suggest (as previously) that you perhaps read what I say before poorly paraphrasing my comments

listermint

listermint wrote: »

Id imagine it along with all the other horses*&t being thrown at people in this country is the problem rover. ..........

Well GaywayTT reckons it's solely motor tax or did I misread that

Any suggestions as to who'll take over the reins from FG and Labour or were you just venting?

listermint

listermint wrote: »

............because it makes you as clueless as he is. Ivory towers.

listermint wrote: »

.............. But sure you go on living in la la land.

...............

Ease off on the insults too old boy.

Please do explain how I seem to be living in la la land though.

listermint

RoverJames wrote: »

Well GaywayTT reckons it's solely motor tax or did I misread that

Any suggestions as to who'll take over the reins from FG and Labour or were you just venting?

hopefully people from within their own parties with their head screwed on properly.

Ive come to think you didnt expect that answer?

Im guessing you are a FG grass roots supporter (purely judging on you hanging on this aspect of my post)

Henry Ford III

listermint wrote: »

Why in the hell does it require a charge ?

And why in the hell is the charge 25 Euro?

If the system was designed properly it would be cost efficient and pay for itself with the existing motor taxes.

Enough of these offices. Get everything online or by post. As usual we are 10 years behind everyone else.

You'd need to address those questions to Leo Varadkar.

listermint

RoverJames wrote: »

Ease off on the insults too old boy.

Please do explain how I seem to be living in la la land though.

You called people 'gnomes', so ease up on the insults yourself...

Bohrio

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Tax frequently isn't right or fair.

Probably but it can be justifiable.

Nobody likes paying taxes I agree (well I assume most people dont) but sometimes I accept paying it either because I think it is reasonable or because I feel it is being put to good use (however I am finding hard to think of an example)

TBH most taxed in this country are a bit of a nonesense... another example is the TV license

listermint

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You'd need to address those questions to Leo Varadkar.

I have, ive sent off an email, Id pop into his office only hes not in my constituency. But his buddy rabbite got my vote last time and he needs a good kick in the arse too.

Lip service is all they are good for.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

hopefully people from within their own parties with there head screwed on properly.

Ive come to think you didnt expect that answer?

Im guessing you are a FG grass roots supporter (purely judging on you handing on this aspect of my post)

People from within FG and labour yet you want FG out and Labour out?
Indeed I didn't expect that answer as I can't quite grasp how it would work, new party or something is it? Do you have any such FG or Labour party members in mind?

I'm not a FG grass roots supporter at all, so you've guessed wrong
However it seems you might be as you hope someone from within FG or labour might have a magic wand.

listermint wrote: »

You called people 'gnomes', so ease up on the insults yourself...

I said there was enough gnomes out there, I didn't specifically insult anyone or attempt to, I'm not at all insulted by your posts but I do not appreciate your incorrect and frankly wide of the mark paraphrasing attempts and subsequent accusations of living in la la land etc.

antodeco

Ive one car with over 2 years worth of tax waiting to be paid. I think its been on the road once in that time, purely just to get the wheels moving, and that was in the cul de sac I live in. If they bring in SORN and 12 months only, the car will be crushed. SORN is fine, and I have no problems with it, but the removal of 3/6 months is going to make the car a non-runner completley. It was due to be back on the road proper this year, but only for 6 months of the year. Maybe drive for 5 hours a month.

listermint

RoverJames wrote: »

People from within FG and labour yet you want FG out and Labour out?
Indeed I didn't expect that answer as I can't quite grasp how it would work, new party or something is it? Do you have any such FG or Labour party members in mind?

I'm not a FG grass roots supporter at all, so you've guessed wrong
However it seems you might be as you hope someone from within FG or labour might have a magic wand.



I said there was enough gnomes out there, I didn't specifically insult anyone or attempt to, I'm not at all insulted by your posts but I do not appreciate your incorrect and frankly wide of the mark paraphrasing attempts and subsequent accusations of living in la la land etc.

I do love our tete a tete rover. We always come to this impass.

The one where i firmly believe our transport department is being badly managed and run. And the one where you dont. (i believe)

listermint

listermint wrote: »

..........The one where i firmly believe our transport department is being badly managed and run. And the one where you dont. (i believe)

You've just really narrowed down the topic from your earlier speel

I really would prefer if you remained more consistent and justified or attempted to justify some of your speels.

By transport dept I take you mean motor tax (I'm not at all familiar with the transport Dept or what they do tbh other than motor tax), as mentioned many times, not on my radar of top issues that bother me about the overall tax system.

Fuel prices at their current levels don't bother me either

I'd like if motor tax was less, but there's lots of other things I reckon need attention more urgently than motor tax.

Petrol heads need to look at the bigger picture too imo.

Big Davey

wesf wrote: »

I actually read on another forum that they are on about doing away with 3 and 6 months tax, just a yearly payment!
That can't be right?!

Too many people doing the 3 months on 3 months off and getting the form signed by the local "donkey" who they have a few pints with from time to time. A friend of mine tried it with a 3.2 merc and the Garda roasted him and would not sign the form made him back tax it ! Great to see some of them doing there job.

listermint

RoverJames wrote: »

You've just really narrowed down the topic from your earlier speel

I really would prefer if you remained more consistent and justified or attempted to justify some of your speels.

By transport dept I take you mean motor tax (I'm not at all familiar with the transport Dept or what they do tbh other than motor tax), as mentioned many times, not on my radar of top issues that bother me about the overall tax system.

Fuel prices at their current levels don't bother me either

I'd like if motor tax was less, but there's lots of other things I reckon need attention more urgently than motor tax.

Petrol heads need to look at the bigger picture too imo.

I have issue with -

motor tax
NTA
Public Transport
Road Maintenance - local and national
PPP awards

These are ALL part of my issues with the transport department. Its defficiencys currently and historically are self evident marred by politics and bad management. including poor internal appointments.


As for petrol heads looking at the bigger picture? What is that Rover ? Taking away someones only joy. A little thing like tinkering away with the classic non classic cars ?

Lets just bring back the workhouse. No joy for anyone. Hoorah !

listermint

Big Davey wrote: »

Too many people doing the 3 months on 3 months off and getting the form signed by the local "donkey" who they have a few pints with from time to time. A friend of mine tried it with a 3.2 merc and the Garda roasted him and would not sign the form made him back tax it ! Great to see some of them doing there job.

Explain how the guard knew it wasnt off the road ?

Mine was of the road november through to January. I was putting it back on the road in time for spring. Some stupid decision that was now aye.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

The Bishop Basher

Big Davey wrote: »

Too many people doing the 3 months on 3 months off and getting the form signed by the local "donkey" who they have a few pints with from time to time. A friend of mine tried it with a 3.2 merc and the Garda roasted him and would not sign the form made him back tax it ! Great to see some of them doing there job.

But that's not his job. He is required to witness the signature. Unfortunate to see of them still abusing their powers.