Dog Attack in Tramore Sunday 24th March 11am

dharma200

Excuse me, I live in one of the most popular dog walking routes in the west, and help irresponsible owners on a weekly basis try to find the dogs they have lost due to no leads.... I have a very good understanding of the law as I am in contact with animal welfare groups and the council due to this. I own three dogs myself, two of whom have ben attacked while on lead by dogs unleashed. I am not hysterical nor finger pointing but live, every day with the realities of dog owners thinkiong their little dog is ok to run around, whi;le other dogs should be leashed. Geta grip, and dont be so rude.

OldNotWIse

andreac wrote: »

Seriously?? Why would it be a child next time. This kind of statement really annoys me. Dogs attack each other all the time and know the difference between people and dogs.

Lots of dogs are dog aggressive and fine with people.

Agree. I also hate when people say, "something needs to be done about these dogs" - like what? All dogs of that breed or something? And what will be done? It's very mob-esque

tk123

Would the TBay place not have CCTV?

Knine

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Agree. I also hate when people say, "something needs to be done about these dogs" - like what? All dogs of that breed or something? And what will be done? It's very mob-esque

Sorry but it does not matter how good they are with people if a small child is out with their parents holding the lead when their dog gets attacked.

Something does need to be done. They need to be kept under effective control.

I should be able to take my children out with their dogs without the worry they will be caught up in an aggressive off lead dog attacking mine or have to witness such a thing.

fatmammycat

dharma200 wrote: »

Excuse me, I live in one of the most popular dog walking routes in the west, and help irresponsible owners on a weekly basis try to find the dogs they have lost due to no leads.... I have a very good understanding of the law as I am in contact with animal welfare groups and the council due to this. I own three dogs myself, two of whom have ben attacked while on lead by dogs unleashed. I am not hysterical nor finger pointing but live, every day with the realities of dog owners thinkiong their little dog is ok to run around, whi;le other dogs should be leashed. Geta grip, and dont be so rude.

I'm no being rude at all, read over your own post again. The law does not require all dogs to be leashed and walked by persons over 16. You don't know that the attacked dog in the OP was leashed or unleashed, you made an assumption. Not all owners think their dogs are 'cute' and therefore think it's acceptable to run up to other dogs. As an RB owner I KNOW how irritating it is to have unleashed dogs run up to a leashed dog. I ALSO know how important it is to socialise dogs properly and that requires quite a lot of mixing with a variety of dogs, both big and small. And funnily enough my own dog won't chew the ears off any cute dog who approaches him.

OldNotWIse

Knine wrote: »

Sorry but it does not matter how good they are with people if a small child is out with their parents holding the lead when their dog gets attacked.

Something does need to be done. They need to be kept under effective control.

I should be able to take my children out with their dogs without the worry they will be caught up in an aggressive off lead dog attacking mine or have to witness such a thing.

But thats my point. You're so vague. What dogs? All dogs? All dogs of one specific breed? What do you suggest doing?

Knine

OldNotWIse wrote: »

But thats my point. You're so vague. What dogs? All dogs? All dogs of one specific breed? What do you suggest doing?

All dogs I don't diffentiate between RB and non restricted breeds as I don't feel the need to.

dharma200

fatmammycat wrote: »

I'm no being rude at all, read over your own post again. The law does not require all dogs to be leashed and walked by persons over 16. You don't know that the attacked dog in the OP was leashed or unleashed, you made an assumption. Not all owners think their dogs are 'cute' and therefore think it's acceptable to run up to other dogs. As an RB owner I KNOW how irritating it is to have unleashed dogs run up to a leashed dog. I ALSO know how important it is to socialise dogs properly and that requires quite a lot of mixing with a variety of dogs, both big and small. And funnily enough my own dog won't chew the ears off any cute dog who approaches him.

I stated it should be law. Read my post again. As an RB owner myself I also know how irritating it is.. Mixing dogs and socialising them is ebntirely different from allowing dogs to run around unleashed. That is not a way to do it. Maybe your dog wont, maybe my dogs wont either, but another dig may. Funnily enough neither will mine, however I wouldnt let my dogs run around to test ever dog on a lead. As a RB owner I am sure you understand that your dog has to be restrained to protect ITSELF from other irresponsible owners, not just to protect other dogs etc. it is our job to protect our RB dogs by keeping them leashed and muzzled so they do not get destroyed because of some other idiot with a dog on the loose. I am not quite sure why you are taking such a tone with me.... or maybe it just reads bad, but there is nothing worse than being condecended to or patronised. I have been a RB owner for over 20 years. I have dealt with and do deal with dog owners on a DAILY basis who are to idiotic to put a lead on their dogs. Socialising dogs by letting them run around without a lead is irresponsible. Whatever I presumed about the OP ic annot verify as the account has been closed. Pet and animal issues on this forum has just gone ridiculous, unwelcoming and full of patronising posts, be it about diet or whatever. Its gone beyond, posts are rude and patronising.

borderlinemeath

dharma200 wrote: »

As a RB owner I am sure you understand that your dog has to be restrained to protect ITSELF from other irresponsible owners, not just to protect other dogs etc. it is our job to protect our RB dogs by keeping them leashed and muzzled so they do not get destroyed because of some other idiot with a dog on the loose.

Just while you're on the subject - how exactly can an RB dog that is muzzled protect itself? It's only defences have been muzzled.

I am not quite sure why you are taking such a tone with me.... or maybe it just reads bad, but there is nothing worse than being condecended to or patronised. I have been a RB owner for over 20 years. I have dealt with and do deal with dog owners on a DAILY basis who are to idiotic to put a lead on their dogs. Socialising dogs by letting them run around without a lead is irresponsible. Whatever I presumed about the OP ic annot verify as the account has been closed. Pet and animal issues on this forum has just gone ridiculous, unwelcoming and full of patronising posts, be it about diet or whatever. Its gone beyond, posts are rude and patronising.

I think you're over reacting slightly, here and in your last post. Not all dog owners that walk their dogs off leash can be branded 'idiotic'. My two dogs if they see a dog coming towards us, turn and look at me for instruction. Am I idiotic? I don't think so. I think I've two polite well trained dogs that I have no intention of walking on the lead to appease the few people that think it should be law.

Tell me though, how did you socialise your dog? It's a hugely important part of a dogs upbringing and going by your posts on this thread you don't seem to put any value on it at all. TBH if all dogs were properly socialised in all aspects of daily lives there would be far less attacks - on dogs and humans.

Synyster Shadow

fatmammycat wrote: »

It is rare that a dog will kill a human, so it makes a talking point– although you will perhaps notice I didn't comment on that thread at all. A skirmish over the weekend between two dogs is hardly newsworthy and impossible to do anything about except start a whole round of hypothetical whataboutery.

Thing is dogs are been trained by armatures all over U.K. To attack humans and the owners themselves said they don't know would the dog stop before killing its not that rare anymore actually there's plenty of stories past and present

Knine

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Just while you're on the subject - how exactly can an RB dog that is muzzled protect itself? It's only defences have been muzzled.


I think you're over reacting slightly, here and in your last post. Not all dog owners that walk their dogs off leash can be branded 'idiotic'. .

I don't think he/she is over reacting. Most off the lead dogs are not well trained like yours and even one attack is one attack too many! It is also a very frequent occurence on my walks. Owners with no control at all of their dogs

Nody

Knine wrote: »

I don't think he/she is over reacting. Most off the lead dogs are not well trained like yours and even one attack is one attack too many! It is also a very frequent occurence on my walks. Owners with no control at all of their dogs

But is not the point that leashed or not the problem is with the owner not acting like an owner more then anything else?

Stating that all dogs should be leashed would not solve the problem (as the poorly socialized dog would run out of the leash/not properly put on etc.) anyway. Rather it should be required, and more importantly enforced, the responsibilities of dog ownership itself (inc. control of the dog, requirement of chipping to have a clear owner to be hold responsible etc.). At least that would have a chance of fixing the root cause rather then try to go after a symptom of the problem.

dharma200

borderlinemeath wrote: »

Just while you're on the subject - how exactly can an RB dog that is muzzled protect itself? It's only defences have been muzzled.




I think you're over reacting slightly, here and in your last post. Not all dog owners that walk their dogs off leash can be branded 'idiotic'. My two dogs if they see a dog coming towards us, turn and look at me for instruction. Am I idiotic? I don't think so. I think I've two polite well trained dogs that I have no intention of walking on the lead to appease the few people that think it should be law.

Tell me though, how did you socialise your dog? It's a hugely important part of a dogs upbringing and going by your posts on this thread you don't seem to put any value on it at all. TBH if all dogs were properly socialised in all aspects of daily lives there would be far less attacks - on dogs and humans.

The dogs does not protect itself, however if the dog is muzzled the dogs life is protected, in that society can not have the dog put down. My dogs are muzzled to protect them from society, in that another dog attacks my dog, and if my dog is not mizzled, even on a lead, and the other dog is out of control, becuase my dog is RB it will be destroyed. My dogs are socialised, not by being allowed to run around in public places without a lead... apart from being illegal, I see that as irresponsible behaviour. Only this last week we have had to open and close a humane trap set by Coucil to try to get a dog that was not properly restrained by owner/walker, to be found as it ran after another ani,mal and did not come back. This dog was seen injured last week, and by now is most probably dead. If you feel your dogs do not need leashed thats fine, for you, and I hope they do not meet the smae fate as the dogs I have had to look for, put traps out and ultimately are never found. It is every owners choice to choose the level of responsibility they wish to take, inless RB whereby the dogs life is at risk if you dont muzzle or control.. I am not in the habit of dictating, however living in the front line of this, and having to deal with owners who say 'oh hes never ran away before' or 'hes never been aggrassive before' or 'the dog is a bit nervous so we need a humane trap' or ' its been three weeks and freezing weather, can you leave food out at night in the hope the dog hasnt starved to death'.. I am dealing with this right now, so forgive me if i am a little over reacting. All the people who I have to deal with all said their dogs were always great, never ran away before, never displayed aggressive behaviour. I dont have sympatyhy for owners who s dogs go missing because they have not restrained them properly and put their dog at risk of death because of this.Sy,pathy for the dog manybe, but not the sad owners. They all thought their dogs would be fine. I set a humane trap last night trying to get a poor dog trapped that has been gone for weeks. Nice, and could have been prevented if the owners just put a lead on the dog, even an long extendable one, give the dog freedom enough to sniff and socialise, but to have it running around.. well, good luck, I would not risk my own dogs life like that.

Knine

Nody wrote: »

But is not the point that leashed or not the problem is with the owner not acting like an owner more then anything else?

Stating that all dogs should be leashed would not solve the problem (as the poorly socialized dog would run out of the leash/not properly put on etc.) anyway. Rather it should be required, and more importantly enforced, the responsibilities of dog ownership itself (inc. control of the dog, requirement of chipping to have a clear owner to be hold responsible etc.). At least that would have a chance of fixing the root cause rather then try to go after a symptom of the problem.

Thats exactly what I'm saying Nody. I've no problem with off lead dogs but I have a major problem with un controlled dogs attacking mine. I will also use whatever force is needed to protect my dogs and kids.

borderlinemeath

Knine wrote: »

I don't think he/she is over reacting. Most off the lead dogs are not well trained like yours and even one attack is one attack too many! It is also a very frequent occurence on my walks. Owners with no control at all of their dogs

It's the opinion that all dog owners that let their dogs off leash are idiotic that I have issues with. There's some that I deal with myself (Note the word 'some', not all.) I meet plenty that are great, polite dogs and sometimes, they're not so polite. I don't make sweeping statements like this though.

I have dealt with and do deal with dog owners on a DAILY basis who are to idiotic to put a lead on their dogs. Socialising dogs by letting them run around without a lead is irresponsible.

borderlinemeath

dharma200 wrote: »

The dogs does not protect itself, however if the dog is muzzled the dogs life is protected, in that society can not have the dog put down. My dogs are muzzled to protect them from society, in that another dog attacks my dog, and if my dog is not mizzled, even on a lead, and the other dog is out of control, becuase my dog is RB it will be destroyed. My dogs are socialised, not by being allowed to run around in public places without a lead... apart from being illegal, I see that as irresponsible behaviour.

This is where I have huge issues with the kneejerk reaction restricted breeds law. Your understanding of it is that it is to protect your dog. But your dog has to get hurt in the process? Take a staffy for example, they're tiny. If one was attacked by a much larger dog, eg a lab, whilst wearing a muzzle it would be maimed, maybe even killed. But because you're on the right side of the law, then it's ok?

Only this last week we have had to open and close a humane trap set by Coucil to try to get a dog that was not properly restrained by owner/walker, to be found as it ran after another ani,mal and did not come back. This dog was seen injured last week, and by now is most probably dead. If you feel your dogs do not need leashed thats fine, for you, and I hope they do not meet the smae fate as the dogs I have had to look for, put traps out and ultimately are never found.

But it's not everybody who doesn't train their dogs to recall. Mine are great and will do pretty much anything I ask, they are trained to return to my call or the whistle if the wind prevents them hearing me.

It is every owners choice to choose the level of responsibility they wish to take, inless RB whereby the dogs life is at risk if you dont muzzle or control.. I am not in the habit of dictating, however living in the front line of this, and having to deal with owners who say 'oh hes never ran away before' or 'hes never been aggrassive before' or 'the dog is a bit nervous so we need a humane trap' or ' its been three weeks and freezing weather, can you leave food out at night in the hope the dog hasnt starved to death'.. I am dealing with this right now, so forgive me if i am a little over reacting. All the people who I have to deal with all said their dogs were always great, never ran away before, never displayed aggressive behaviour. I dont have sympatyhy for owners who s dogs go missing because they have not restrained them properly and put their dog at risk of death because of this.Sy,pathy for the dog manybe, but not the sad owners. They all thought their dogs would be fine. I set a humane trap last night trying to get a poor dog trapped that has been gone for weeks. Nice, and could have been prevented if the owners just put a lead on the dog, even an long extendable one, give the dog freedom enough to sniff and socialise, but to have it running around.. well, good luck, I would not risk my own dogs life like that.

So you ONLY deal with dogs that run away while they're off lead? None of the dogs you set traps for or go looking for went missing from gardens or escaped out during bad weather? Maybe it's the very long paragraph, but I find it confusing reading OR you're just generalising that all dogs that are out get away from owners that walk them off lead?

I commend you for your work in trying to help these dogs but try not to have such a one track mind with no sympathy for the owners, sometimes it's not the owners fault. Sometimes, like recently, the weather can play havoc, blow down gates and fences etc. Only recently I spent well over 2 hours on the beach trying to catch a dog that was distressed, obviously lost and scared, eventually while I was in view his owner appeared and the dog ran straight up to him. Turns out that the dog had got spooked when he heard gunshots and ran. The owner had been running up and down looking for him and had others out as well. Funny enough I had heard the gunshots too, but as an owner of gundogs it has no effect on my dogs. Did I give out to the owner? No, I was delighted the poor dog was found and happy to see his owner.

Again, it might be just me reading it incorrectly but if you put in a few paragraphs it would be easier to follow.

dharma200

I apologise I am very busy at the minute. I live in the heart of a very popular and busy rural place where people bring there dogs to walk, specifically. It is an area that dog walkers come to walk their dogs. Every single time a dog has gone missing here it has been down to the dog being loose ie: NO lead (every week, sometimes 2 or more dogs.) Our door has been knocked many times... we deal with the local council, and any dogs who do get trapped in the humane traps set for the dogs who have ran away owners will be fined for not having theire dog under control).

There are many instances where yes, dogs get loose etc. In my situation the problems we have are stemmed from dog walkers walking their dogs and not having them on a lead. I am not trying to be smart, and while I understand many other areas may not have the problem we have here... I am no generalising but coming from my own experience, day in and day out. Even now I look out my window and I see a person walking up the pathway with three unrestrained dogs... there is someone shooting about 1km away. All you are talking about it true, howver here, right now, these unleashed dogs are not only at risk because their owners are not controlling them, however much recall etc has been ingrained into a dog, I have dealt with owners of very well trained dogs who have ran off due to harea, rabbits, birds... I am not sure how unclear I am being. I am not looking for commendation,I am purely saying if youa re in a public place I feel every dog owner has a responsibility to their OWN dog under control, in that I mean atleast leashed. This is my opinion. My dogs legally have to be muzzled, and yes, they may well not be able to protect themselves if a dog atttacks (which has happened pon two occasions, one by an unleashed labrador and one by an unleashed terrier, both dogs supposedly never aggressive and well trained.... it is an unfortunate fact that my dogs must be mizzled, and I realise that they must be for their own protection..

I do not beleive in bsl, however seeing as it is in place I am obliged as an owner to protect my own dog from the law. It is not ok, I never inntonated bsl is ok, however it is there and Ill be damned if my dog will be put to sleep because of another owner not restraining their won dog, which is what would happen, because my dog would win in the fight and the owner would bring me to court. Simple, unfair, but simple. Fair play to you you have such well trained dogs, unfortunately this is not the case for most people I have to deal with here. If a dog is lost because the powner walked it without a lead, then no, I am soorry , I have no sympathy.

If a fence has blown down etc ofcourse, these situations are different. No leash, dog runs away, bad owner. My opinion. I hope that clears up where I stand, everyone has different thoughts in regard to legislation, and ofcourse their own dog and situation. I live with dog walkers every day doing idiotic things, not everyone, I dont mean everyone... but you would loose hope here with some people. So the situations you are talking aboutare different to dog walkers, walking there dog in a very public place, and other dog walkers, owners and residents having to deal with the consequences of their 'my dog is alright jack'... that is my personal situatio and I think it is hard for most people who dont live with the problem of people walking there dogs without leads every day.. most epole would not beleive the amount of dogs that go awol that we deal with, the amount of owners at our door, phone calls, notes, etc etc, and all because of no leads. I cant make myself any clearer on my own personal experience in regards to owners not using leads in public places.

Magenta

andreac wrote: »

Im just wondering what the point of their post is, as in whats their query? If everyone was to be posting threads on dogs being attacked sure there would be posts everyday.

It isnt the law to have your dog on the lead so you saying that is only your opinion at the end of the day.

Just wondering what the attack has to do with the op as it doesnt look like they were directly involved??

andreac wrote: »

But what is your connection with the attack? Do you know the person involved? Why are you looking to locate the owner and what will you do if you identify them? Will you be making a complaint to the guards?

I don't see why you are being so aggressive. What skin is it off your nose, every little detail as to why the OP is asking? The OP is just asking a simple question. Maybe it was her friend's dog that was attacked and they are looking for witnesses to pursue the owner. You could have asked that in your first reply, rather than "what's your point?". If we only got involved with things that directly concern us, we would live in a miserable world.

**Vai**

From here on, whenever a thread gets ridiculous Im just gonna post this...


Ah lads.

anniehoo

**Vai** wrote: »

From here on, whenever a thread gets ridiculous Im just gonna post this...


Ah lads.

So am I.

We can all see where this thread is heading, play nice or it gets locked. Simple as. It's up to you which way it goes, so everyone watch their tone and respond constructively or not at all. You all know where the report button is if you have issues. Thanks

kopfan77

andreac wrote: »

Im just wondering what the point of their post is, as in whats their query? If everyone was to be posting threads on dogs being attacked sure there would be posts everyday.

It isnt the law to have your dog on the lead so you saying that is only your opinion at the end of the day.

Just wondering what the attack has to do with the op as it doesnt look like they were directly involved??

I dont understand the passive aggressivness in this thread. The guy is just asking for thoughts and opinions from what I can see.

And while the law might not say you have to keep your dog on a lead, most council bye-laws do say that you must keep your dog under control.

This dog clearly was not under control!

borderlinemeath

kopfan77 wrote: »

I dont understand the passive aggressivness in this thread. The guy is just asking for thoughts and opinions from what I can see.

And while the law might not say you have to keep your dog on a lead, most council bye-laws do say that you must keep your dog under control.

This dog clearly was not under control!

In fairness that reply wasn't to the OP, it was to honorbright who posted this:

I don't care how well behaved peoples dogs are, any dog, any breed, can snap and attack and should be on a lead at all times in public.

You're right dogs do have to be under control, that was never disputed. What was disputed thereafter was some peoples opinion that dogs should always be leashed.

anniehoo

gimmick wrote: »

And while the law might not say you have to keep your dog on a lead, most council bye-laws do say that you must keep your dog under control.

This dog clearly was not under control!

On that note ive changed my mind and locking the thread. The OP wont be back as they've closed their account. The thread has turned into simple nit picking with an argumentative tone and not a reasonable and informative discussion. If anyone has an issue take it to PM with me thanks.