Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

aloyisious

I reckon there is a chance a court battle being fought out in public between the two sides might have had a settling effect, particularly if there was a chance of defence counsel issuing summonses to some high-profile administration people. The notion of the Minister for Justice and Commissioner attesting in the witness box might have been too GUBU.

JRant

aloyisious wrote: »

I reckon there is a chance a court battle being fought out in public between the two sides might have had a settling effect, particularly if there was a chance of defence counsel issuing summonses to some high-profile administration people. The notion of the Minister for Justice and Commissioner attesting in the witness box might have been too GUBU.

Court case for what?
It was an internal disciplinary matter that was always going to end this way.

dj jarvis

HondaSami wrote: »

Lol
I can see you sitting there all smug with "I told you so " face. Nothing is ever as it seems dj, don't be naive.

not smug at all - but happy to see i was vindicated in my stance , considering the rubbish that was being shouted at me last night , christ , it was obvious this was going to be the conclusion - but some are blind to whats in front of them.

some even tried to give me a history lesson - a lesson that had NO connection to the discipline matter at hand :rolleyes:

and dont condescend me - i know nothing is as it seems - but this was one of those case where the outcome was black and white,

but some are so thick they just could not see why this was going to happen the way it did - no cure for stupidity unfortunately

ruthloss

PyeContinental wrote: »

So they chickened out at the first sign of trouble, genuflected, kissed the ring, tail between the legs and scampered away. What an ignoble retreat.

Of course they meant offence. Walking out is a symbolic gesture to demonstrate unambiguously how little respect you have for someone and what they have to say. That was the point.

If you're going to do something, then do it. Have the courage of your convictions. A person should always try to have the strength of character to stand by the choices he makes.

If they had any faith in the solidarity and support of the rest of their colleagues, they would have let the commissioner and the minister do their worst. Perhaps they knew that the rest of their colleagues would be as cowardly as them and that there would be no backlash no matter what sanction they received. They should feel justifiably ashamed of themselves for being such turncoats. How dishonourable.

The only thing I see 'dishonourable' here is this post.

Pappa Charlie

dj jarvis wrote: »

not smug at all - but happy to see i was vindicated in my stance , considering the rubbish that was being shouted at me last night , christ , it was obvious this was going to be the conclusion - but some are blind to whats in front of them.

some even tried to give me a history lesson - a lesson that had NO connection to the discipline matter at hand :rolleyes:

and dont condescend me - i know nothing is as it seems - but this was one of those case where the outcome was black and white,

but some are so thick they just could not see why this was going to happen the way it did - no cure for stupidity unfortunately

The more I read your posts the more I realise how little you know!

SB2013

dj jarvis wrote: »

not smug at all - but happy to see i was vindicated in my stance , considering the rubbish that was being shouted at me last night , christ , it was obvious this was going to be the conclusion - but some are blind to whats in front of them.

some even tried to give me a history lesson - a lesson that had NO connection to the discipline matter at hand :rolleyes:

and dont condescend me - i know nothing is as it seems - but this was one of those case where the outcome was black and white,

but some are so thick they just could not see why this was going to happen the way it did - no cure for stupidity unfortunately

Every argument you made was based on either a lie or a misunderstanding. You haven't been "vindicated" in anything. Nearly everyone of your posts was wrong and when it was pointed out to you you resorted to abuse or sarcasm. You have constantly referred to the constitution and the oath as supporting your stance when neither does.

Your basic argument is "We can't let them have rights because they might actually exercise them". That is a terrible stance to take on a rights issue and that's exactly why you couldn't get any source to back up your arguments.

tayto lover

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

The more I read your posts the more I realise how little you know!

Yes. He reminds me of a little boy who maybe applied for the job of a Garda and didn't measure up. Now he has an agenda :D
You are better off without his sort anyway.

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

well well well,

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/walkout-sergeants-back-down-in-row-with-garda-chief-29162130.html

so they were going to take a stand for the garda were they ?
standing up for what is right and true ?

or get slapped back into place by the commish and the minister, like i have said would happen from the start, why?
becasue they were ALWAYS going to get a public slapping , they can prob kiss promotion prospects good bye

so lads - you can quote james larkin and sing the Internationale all ye want , matters not a jot in the garda - and they knew this from day one

but any sane poster knew this from the start - didn't we ??? :eek:

Oh my God.
I am still in stitches at that post.
It said on the News that the meeting lasted over 6 hours.
Now it seems to me that they were NOT reprimanded at all and that they didn't back down. They seemed to have spent the time preparing a News statement that suited both sides. If not then why is there no apology to Shatter?
The Garda Commissioner and his senior staff must have had a very difficult time making sure this went no further and that the Garda didn't walk out in mass and leave the Commissioner with a lot of egg on his face. Hence his statement on yesterday's One O'Clock News.
These boys obviously want no truck with their staff and seem to know when to back down.
Now I can see Enda reeling Shatter in.

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

Oh my God.
I am still in stitches at that post.
It said on the News that the meeting lasted over 6 hours.
Now it seems to me that they were NOT reprimanded at all and that they didn't back down. They seemed to have spent the time preparing a News statement that suited both sides. If not then why is there no apology to Shatter?
The Garda Commissioner and his senior staff must have had a very difficult time making sure this went no further and that the Garda didn't walk out in mass and leave the Commissioner with a lot of egg on his face. Hence his statement on yesterday's One O'Clock News.
These boys obviously want no truck with their staff and seem to know when to back down.
Now I can see Enda reeling Shatter in.

Annnnnd more verbal nonsense , between you and the other numptys psychoanalyzing a open and shut case of internal garda matters that was ONLY going to end one way - and it did :rolleyes: as me and other has said from the start - you can waffle all you want - talking crap now and from the start.

as for your above post - when you read the news , do all the letters and words jumble around and then magically form words that you want to see?
they got a dressing down and they wont do it again , the reality of the situation is that they would have been told , to shut the f up in future or you will be doing parking fines for the rest of their career.

this site never ceases to amaze me - there are some grade A brain dead clowns with their heads up their holes - funny as hell all the same

keep it up lads - you are keeping me amused in a sick kind of way.

dj jarvis

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

The more I read your posts the more I realise how little you know!

haw haw , says you :-) , nonsense , nothing but nonsense coming from you my dear boy , being proven wrong that often must sting a bit im sure

dj jarvis

SB2013 wrote: »

Every argument you made was based on either a lie or a misunderstanding. You haven't been "vindicated" in anything. Nearly everyone of your posts was wrong and when it was pointed out to you you resorted to abuse or sarcasm. You have constantly referred to the constitution and the oath as supporting your stance when neither does.

Your basic argument is "We can't let them have rights because they might actually exercise them". That is a terrible stance to take on a rights issue and that's exactly why you couldn't get any source to back up your arguments.

so go on then , point me in the direction on my lie , back it up or shut up

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

Annnnnd more verbal nonsense , between you and the other numptys psychoanalyzing a open and shut case of internal garda matters that was ONLY going to end one way - and it did :rolleyes: as me and other has said from the start - you can waffle all you want - talking crap now and from the start.

as for your above post - when you read the news , do all the letters and words jumble around and then magically form word that you want to see?
they got a dressing down and they wont do it again , the reality of the situation is that they would have been told , to shut the f up in future or you will be doing parking fines for the rest of their career.

this site never ceases to amaze me - there are some grade A brain dead clowns with their heads up their holes - funny as hell all the same

keep it up lads - you are keeping me amused in a sick kind of way.

"They got a dressing down"

Really. This reads to me like they dug their heels in and scared the s*** out of their authorities.

1. No demotions.
2. No fines.
3. Not being sent elsewhere.
4. No apology to Shatter.

It is a clear case of the authorities backing down. 6 hours at a meeting for them to be reprimanded ??? Not making sense as a reprimand would only take minutes. They probably promised the 4 of them something in return for being allowed to state that there is now no dispute between them and the Commissioner.
Shatter will not be happy with this and I think Enda will take him to task too.

Now does that not seem feasible or does it jumble in front of your eyes?
You are no Freud by any stretch of the imagination :rolleyes:
Freud or fraud ??

G Power

PyeContinental wrote: »

So they chickened out at the first sign of trouble, genuflected, kissed the ring, tail between the legs and scampered away. What an ignoble retreat.

Of course they meant offence. Walking out is a symbolic gesture to demonstrate unambiguously how little respect you have for someone and what they have to say. That was the point.

If you're going to do something, then do it. Have the courage of your convictions. A person should always try to have the strength of character to stand by the choices he makes.

If they had any faith in the solidarity and support of the rest of their colleagues, they would have let the commissioner and the minister do their worst. Perhaps they knew that the rest of their colleagues would be as cowardly as them and that there would be no backlash no matter what sanction they received. They should feel justifiably ashamed of themselves for being such turncoats. How dishonourable.

and what the fcuk have you done that's so brave and deserving of praise?? the garda might have stood their ground if they weren't out there on their own!!

what has happened to the garda in question has happened the whole country, a few stand up to the bullies and the rest of the country laughs at them or picks at anything they can find to justify their own lack of solidarity with those taking a stand.

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

"They got a dressing down"

Really. This reads to me like they dug their heels in and scared the s*** out of their authorities.

1. No demotions.
2. No fines.
3. Not being sent elsewhere.
4. No apology to Shatter.

It is a clear case of the authorities backing down. 6 hours at a meeting for them to be reprimanded ??? Not making sense as a reprimand would only take minutes. They probably promised the 4 of them something in return for being allowed to state that there is now no dispute between them and the Commissioner.
Shatter will not be happy with this and I think Enda will take him to task too.

Now does that not seem feasible or does it jumble in front of your eyes?
You are no Freud by any stretch of the imagination :rolleyes:

now there is a HUGE assumption to suit you baseless argument
and you know the problem with assumptions dont you?

they walked in with no confidence - walked out with confidence , and looking gloomy to boot , so they gave the commis a belly rub , and he told a few jokes and all are now BBFF ???

you really are living in a fantasy world

SB2013

dj jarvis wrote: »

so go on then , point me in the direction on my lie , back it up or shut up

i have done so throughout the thread. Just read back on it and you'll see.

dj jarvis

this really is starting to get like i am being trolled by Larry, curly and mo :rolleyes:


WWOOOOOPPP OOOOOO WOOOOOPP why i oughta !!!!

http://s272.photobucket.com/user/Pink_Skull_91/media/GIFs/Sing-a-Song-of-Six-Pants_small.gif.html?sort=3&o=18

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

now there is a HUGE assumption to suit you baseless argument
and you know the problem with assumptions dont you?

they walked in with no confidence - walked out with confidence , and looking gloomy to boot , so they gave the commis a belly rub , and he told a few jokes and all are now BBFF ???

you really are living in a fantasy world

Could you not at least answer any of the points -

Why --
1. Were they not fined?
2. Not demoted?
3. Not transferred?
4. Not suspended?

Please try and improve the standard of your posts and answer the above

dj jarvis

SB2013 wrote: »

i have done so throughout the thread. Just read back on it and you'll see.

no no , you were being a getting yourself a little hard on all thread about facts or lack of them , so be a good lad and highlight my lies,
but you wont becasue you cant

go on Larry , back in your box

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

Could you not at least answer any of the points -

Why --
1. Were they not fined?
2. Not demoted?
3. Not transferred?
4. Not suspended?

Please try and improve the standard of your posts and answer the above

becasue they never were going to get any of those sanctions , and i never said they would either , please point out to me where i said they would get these sanctions ?

i said they would be hauled up to be told to keep the mouth zipped , do not break the chain of command and maintain discipline , for the greater good of the AGS

if you have read the thread and try understand what was being said, you might have caught that nugget of info.

you wont hear another word from these 4 garda , becasue they were told what would happen if they did - they step out of line again and they will feel the pinch - simple really

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

becasue they never were going to get any of those sanctions , and i never said they would either , please point out to me where i said they would get these sanctions ?

i said they would be hauled up to be told to keep the mouth zipped , do not break the chain of command and maintain discipline , for the greater good of the AGS

if you have read the thread and try understand what was being said, you might have caught that nugget of info.

you wont hear another word from these 3 garda , becasue they were told what would happen if they did - they step out of line again and they will feel the pinch - simple really

H ha
It's far more likely that to avert a total walkout the Commissioner said something like -
"Lads, we can't have this. We need industrial harmony within the Garda Force. I do not want to rock the boat and issue reprimands like Shatter wanted because I fear what that may lead to. Let's agree on statements for the Press and move on. We all make mistakes and get angry so lets put this to bed"

Those 4 lads were probably promised promotions.

If it went any other way and they were scared then WHY was there no apology to Shatter? Surely the Commissioner would have wanted that if he held the whiphand.

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

H ha
It's far more likely that to avert a total walkout the Commissioner said something like -
"Lads, we can't have this. We need industrial harmony within the Garda Force. I do not want to rock the boat and issue reprimands like Shatter wanted because I fear what that may lead to. Let's agree on statements for the Press and move on. We all make mistakes and get angry so lets put this to bed"

Those 4 lads were probably promised promotions.

If it went any other way and they were scared then WHY was there no apology to Shatter? Surely the Commissioner would have wanted that if he held the whiphand.

yea , you keep telling yourself that - believe what you want , but in fairness you or me have no way of knowing what was said , so stop wasting electricity , you are killing the poor polar bears

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

yea , you keep telling yourself that - believe what you want , but in fairness you or me have no way of knowing what was said , so stop wasting electricity , you are killing the poor polar bears

I will make it simple for you this time with just one question --

Why was there no apology to Shatter?

Think hard now :pac:

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

I will make it simple for you this time with just one question --

Why was there no apology to Shatter?

Think hard now :pac:

mmmmmm let me see ?????
Becasue they really had nothing to apologize to him for - they were trying to make a political point - stupid one , but a point none the less.

not everyone is a sensitive as you tayto , im sure shatter will get over it :rolleyes:

you really are still not getting the point , at all , are you?
the debacle was over discipline and nothing more - there was never going to be a apology becasue none was warranted , its not like they threw eggs at him or called his wife a slag now is it .

2 days of this thread , and still you are just not getting it - weird :eek:

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

mmmmmm let me see ?????
Becasue they really had nothing to apologize to him for - they were trying to make a political point - stupid one , but a point none the less.

not everyone is a sensitive as you tayto , im sure shatter will get over it :rolleyes:

you really are still not getting the point , at all , are you?
the debacle was over discipline and nothing more - there was never going to be a apology becasue none was warranted , its not like they threw eggs at him or called his wife a slag now is it .

2 days of this thread , and still you are just not getting it - weird :eek:

That seems like a big climb-down from you as opposed to your post 587.
Shatter seemed to think that there was a discipline matter from his News statement's.
So why did no apology come then?

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

That seems like a big climb-down from you as opposed to your post 587.
Shatter seemed to think that there was a discipline matter from his News statement's.
So why did no apology come then?

no climb down at all dear boy - here is the text from that post

"
so they were going to take a stand for the garda were they ?
standing up for what is right and true ?

or get slapped back into place by the commish and the minister, like i have said would happen from the start, why?
becasue they were ALWAYS going to get a public slapping , they can prob kiss promotion prospects good bye

so lads - you can quote james larkin and sing the Internationale all ye want , matters not a jot in the garda - and they knew this from day one

but any sane poster knew this from the start - didn't we ??? "

so , im am confused , how is that a climb down ? they did get a public dressing down , they were ORDERED to attend a disciplinary hearing - in the glare of public , they went in with no faith in the boss , and came out with full faith , a road to Damascus conversion maybe - it is good Friday and all that

context dear boy , context.

and i answered you question about Shatters so called apology in my last post
you are getting pedantic again.

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

That seems like a big climb-down from you as opposed to your post 587.
Shatter seemed to think that there was a discipline matter from his News statement's.
So why did no apology come then?

did Shatter actually ask for a apology , or are you just getting upset for him on his behalf ?

John Mongo

tayto lover wrote: »

That seems like a big climb-down from you as opposed to your post 587.
Shatter seemed to think that there was a discipline matter from his News statement's.
So why did no apology come then?

It was a discipline matter.

A discipline matter that has now been dealt with. A press release put out and that's the end of it. There was never any risk of 4 lads being sacked or anything mental like that. They wouldn't have been asked to put out an apology, simply put out a statement saying that things were still rosey.

Let's not act like this is some glorious victory for the 4 lads. It was simply a case of them being told to get back in their box. No mass walkout of AGS members was ever on the cards over the 4 lads being hauled in for a talk. They certainly won't have been promised any kind of promotion.

They pulled a stunt that they shouldn't have. They had their hand slapped because of it. Simple enough.

dj jarvis

John Mongo wrote: »

It was a discipline matter.

A discipline matter that has now been dealt with. A press release put out and that's the end of it. There was never any risk of 4 lads being sacked or anything mental like that. They wouldn't have been asked to put out an apology, simply put out a statement saying that things were still rosey.

Let's not act like this is some glorious victory for the 4 lads. It was simply a case of them being told to get back in their box. No mass walkout of AGS members was ever on the cards over the 4 lads being hauled in for a talk. They certainly won't have been promised any kind of promotion.

They pulled a stunt that they shouldn't have. They had their hand slapped because of it. Simple enough.

could not have put it better myself john

but be careful - Larry curly and mo will be out for you too

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

dj jarvis

Phoenix wrote: »

Why are you referring to other posters as such?

becasue when a certain set of posters continually attack what i have said , ignore what i have backed up what i have said , and have had to constantly repeat myself by answering the same question , by the same posters trying to derail the thread with nonsense that has little or nothing to do with the subject matter

and in fairness its light relief from the constant head banging , did not see the mods jump in when i was accused of being a lair , being pulled up on punctuation or spelling , and in fairness they are being belligerent to put it mildly ,

i have no malice or cruel intent for anyone , just standing my ground against some people with a stupid point to prove in their heads , and seeing john mongo posted the same opinion as me , it stand to reason they were going to start on him - or are they just me they want to TRY and wind up ?

and in fairness , they are coming across like the three stooges .

JRant

It was interesting to hear John Redmond on the lunch time news. According to him, the 3 Gardai were there in an offical capacity representing their "union branch" with a mandate from it's members.
Now first up why on earth is he mentioning anything about a union. There is none and it's against the law, as it stands, for them to organise themselves in such a way.
Second, this puts to bed the myth that these lads were there in a personal capacity. Quite clearly they were trying to send a political message to the commissioner by getting up and walking out like they did.
I think this second point is important and tells us why they were called before the top brass.

SB2013

dj jarvis wrote: »

becasue when a certain set of posters continually attack what i have said , ignore what i have backed up what i have said , and have had to constantly repeat myself by answering the same question , by the same posters trying to derail the thread with nonsense that has little or nothing to do with the subject matter

and in fairness its light relief from the constant head banging , did not see the mods jump in when i was accused of being a lair , being pulled up on punctuation or spelling , and in fairness they are being belligerent to put it mildly ,

i have no malice or cruel intent for anyone , just standing my ground against some people with a stupid point to prove in their heads , and seeing john mongo posted the same opinion as me , it stand to reason they were going to start on him - or are they just me they want to TRY and wind up ?

and in fairness , they are coming across like the three stooges .

You have not supported anything you said with any relevent material. You've spouted legislation and stats that don't even half connect to what you say. You've gone on about the oath and constitution ad nauseum without linking it to what you've said. I've pointed out your errors a number of times and you've either ignored what I said or responded with abuse or sarcasm, in one case referring to me as a transvestide hooker. You've added nothing of substance to this thread.

dj jarvis

JRant wrote: »

It was interesting to hear John Redmond on the lunch time news. According to him, the 3 Gardai were there in an offical capacity representing their "union branch" with a mandate from it's members.
Now first up why on earth is he mentioning anything about a union. There is none and it's against the law, as it stands, for them to organise themselves in such a way.
Second, this puts to bed the myth that these lads were there in a personal capacity. Quite clearly they were trying to send a political message to the commissioner by getting up and walking out like they did.
I think this second point is important and tells us why they were called before the top brass.

that is the crux of the matter
they act like a union , but are nothing of the sort , aspiration to become one , but wont be under the current garda act,
it was a political act , staged by the AGSI , that badly back fired on them,
i would even hazard a guess it was to divert the attention from their stupid decision to walk from CPII negotiations.

im sure this is the end of the matter , they will be less likely to stick their necks out in the future i would say
the "union" dropped the ball and neither the GARDA or the minister will forget this

tayto lover

John Mongo wrote: »

It was a discipline matter.

A discipline matter that has now been dealt with. A press release put out and that's the end of it. There was never any risk of 4 lads being sacked or anything mental like that. They wouldn't have been asked to put out an apology, simply put out a statement saying that things were still rosey.

Let's not act like this is some glorious victory for the 4 lads. It was simply a case of them being told to get back in their box. No mass walkout of AGS members was ever on the cards over the 4 lads being hauled in for a talk. They certainly won't have been promised any kind of promotion.

They pulled a stunt that they shouldn't have. They had their hand slapped because of it. Simple enough.

How have they had their hand slapped?
That's just wishful thinking on you and dj's part.
There was no reprimand at all. No hand slapping either. If there was then where is the apology to Shatter?
The Commissioner realised it was a no win" situation. He knew not to pull their chain.
They were representing their members and as such were never going to be disciplined. The only loser is Shatter.

"The Irish Times 2013-03-27: The Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors (Agsi) has insisted that four of its members who walked out on speeches by Minister for Justice Alan Shatter and Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan at its annual conference this week should not be disciplined. The association has made its comments after it emerged Mr Shatter has sanctioned disciplinary proceedings against the four sergeants from the Carlow-Kilkenny division. The men now face being fined or being demoted back to being rank and file gardai. It is possible they could be dismissed from the force for indiscipline."

dj jarvis

SB2013 wrote: »

You have not supported anything you said with any relevent material. You've spouted legislation and stats that don't even half connect to what you say. You've gone on about the oath and constitution ad nauseum without linking it to what you've said. I've pointed out your errors a number of times and you've either ignored what I said or responded with abuse or sarcasm, in one case referring to me as a transvestide hooker. You've added nothing of substance to this thread.

everything i said and post IS connected with the garda act , and to a lesser extent to the constitution , just becasue you cant understand that , well i can help that

as for the JOKE about you being a hooker , it was in response to you calling me a lair - a point you still have to prove by the way

and please point out my errors , as i have asked many many times

as for nothing of substance , its a lot more than you have , i deal in reality , not fiction and cheer leading

tayto lover

Phoenix wrote: »

Why are you referring to other posters as such?

That's what you do when you are losing the argument:pac:

John Mongo

tayto lover wrote: »

How have they had their hand slapped?
That's just wishful thinking on you and dj's part.
There was no reprimand at all. No hand slapping either. If there was then where is the apology to Shatter?
The Commissioner realised it was a no win" situation. He knew not to pull their chain.
They were representing their members and as such were never going to be disciplined. The only loser is Shatter.

"The Irish Times 2013-03-27: The Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors (Agsi) has insisted that four of its members who walked out on speeches by Minister for Justice Alan Shatter and Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan at its annual conference this week should not be disciplined. The association has made its comments after it emerged Mr Shatter has sanctioned disciplinary proceedings against the four sergeants from the Carlow-Kilkenny division. The men now face being fined or being demoted back to being rank and file gardai. It is possible they could be dismissed from the force for indiscipline."

Wishful thinking? Hardly.

No reprimand? No hand slapping? They were pulled in for a 6 hour meeting with the Assistant Commissioner and at the end of it, came out with a statement about how the Commissioner had their full support etc.

The walkout on Shatter wasn't the issue, the walkout during the Commissioner's speech was the main issue. AGS are supposed to be a disciplined force and such a full on show of insubordination during the Commissioner's speech wasn't on at all.

Anyone who thinks that the 4 lads have somehow "won"(Whatever that even means), are off their rockers.

tayto lover

John Mongo wrote: »

Wishful thinking? Hardly.

No reprimand? No hand slapping? They were pulled in for a 6 hour meeting with the Assistant Commissioner and at the end of it, came out with a statement about how the Commissioner had their full support etc.

The walkout on Shatter wasn't the issue, the walkout during the Commissioner's speech was the main issue. AGS are supposed to be a disciplined force and such a full on show of insubordination during the Commissioner's speech wasn't on at all.

Anyone who thinks that the 4 lads have somehow "won"(Whatever that even means), are off their rockers.

A 6 hour reprimand ??? Hardly.
You know it doesn't make sense as Shatter seemed to make quite an issue of it even bringing his wife into it. But he didn't get his way and I for one am glad.

John Mongo

tayto lover wrote: »

A 6 hour reprimand ??? Hardly.
You know it doesn't make sense as Shatter seemed to make quite an issue of it even bringing his wife into it. But he didn't get his way and I for one am glad.

Shatter can make as much of an issue of it as he wants, he doesn't get to decide or implement if lads are disciplined or not.

The major issue was walking out on the Commissioner, regardless of feeling within the force, an act of insubordination like that is unacceptable. Which is why the lads were pulled in for the meeting and why the statement followed.

This talk in the papers of the 4 lads facing the sack etc. was nonsense. They were brought in, told that even with tensions running high within the force they were out of order, told not to do it again and that's the end of it.

tayto lover

John Mongo wrote: »

Shatter can make as much of an issue of it as he wants, he doesn't get to decide or implement if lads are disciplined or not.

The major issue was walking out on the Commissioner, regardless of feeling within the force, an act of insubordination like that is unacceptable. Which is why the lads were pulled in for the meeting and why the statement followed.

This talk in the papers of the 4 lads facing the sack etc. was nonsense. They were brought in, told that even with tensions running high within the force they were out of order, told not to do it again and that's the end of it.

Not much of a reprimand so
So much for slapping.
I bet the Commissioner is much relieved.
I am really glad for them all.

John Mongo

tayto lover wrote: »

Not much of a reprimand so
So much for slapping.
I bet the Commissioner is much relieved.
I am really glad for them all.

Of course it was a hand slapping, it was all it was ever going to be.

The 4 lads had to be told to cop themselves on, anything else was overkill. The Commissioner handled it exactly as he should have. Would hardly say he's relieved, in a battle between 4 members of the AGSI and the Commissioner there'd only ever be one winner, the Commissioner.

tayto lover

John Mongo wrote: »

Of course it was a hand slapping, it was all it was ever going to be.

The 4 lads had to be told to cop themselves on, anything else was overkill. The Commissioner handled it exactly as he should have. Would hardly say he's relieved, in a battle between 4 members of the AGSI and the Commissioner there'd only ever be one winner, the Commissioner.

But it wasn't 4 against the Commissioner was it?
They were representing a considerably higher number and he knew that.

PS
I couldn't find "hand slapping" in the Garda Act. Could you or dj point me towards it please?

John Mongo

tayto lover wrote: »

But it wasn't 4 against the Commissioner was it?
They were representing a considerably higher number and he knew that.

PS
I couldn't find "hand slapping" in the Garda Act. Could you or dj point me towards it please?

Jesus ****ing Christ.

Do you think the 4 lads were pulled in front of the Assistant Commissioner for a cup of tea and a chin wag? Pulled in front of the AC, a 6 hour meeting and a statement from them about how they fully supported the Commissioner. They were made back down from their little walk out and they won't be doing it again in a hurry. There's your hand slap.

They can represent as many as they want, neither the AGSI or GRA are more powerful than the Commissioner.

JRant

dj jarvis wrote: »

that is the crux of the matter
they act like a union , but are nothing of the sort , aspiration to become one , but wont be under the current garda act,
it was a political act , staged by the AGSI , that badly back fired on them,
i would even hazard a guess it was to divert the attention from their stupid decision to walk from CPII negotiations.

im sure this is the end of the matter , they will be less likely to stick their necks out in the future i would say
the "union" dropped the ball and neither the GARDA or the minister will forget this

It points to poor leadership from the AGSI if you ask me. They're sending representatives with a 'mandate' and are acting like 'union' officials. This is just putting your hand out to be slapped. If they want the right to call themselves a union, then do as the Belgium police force are and bring a case to Europe

tayto lover

John Mongo wrote: »

Jesus ****ing Christ.

Do you think the 4 lads were pulled in front of the Assistant Commissioner for a cup of tea and a chin wag? Pulled in front of the AC, a 6 hour meeting and a statement from them about how they fully supported the Commissioner. They were made back down from their little walk out and they won't be doing it again in a hurry. There's your hand slap.

They can represent as many as they want, neither the AGSI or GRA are more powerful than the Commissioner.

Jaysus a 6 hour hand slapping :pac:
Their hands must be red raw. I'd say they were wined and dined.
It is plain to see that a deal was done for the media. The proof of that is that there was no apology for Shatter. Simple as.

John Mongo

tayto lover wrote: »

Jaysus a 6 hour hand slapping :pac:
Their hands must be red raw. I'd say they were wined and dined.
It is plain to see that a deal was done for the media. The proof of that is that there was no apology for Shatter. Simple as.

A deal? Yes. I'm sure the 4 lads hammered out a deal with the Assistant Commissioner.

They were put back in their box and made put together a statement of support for the Commissioner after their little act of insubordination. Didn't do very well out of their "deal" did they?

tayto lover

JRant wrote: »

It points to poor leadership from the AGSI if you ask me. They're sending representatives with a 'mandate' and are acting like 'union' officials. This is just putting your hand out to be slapped. If they want the right to call themselves a union, then do as the Belgium police force are and bring a case to Europe

Shatter must be seething after this. No disciplinary measures taken against the men who turned their backs on him and walked out. The ignomy of it. He must be completely shattered.

I hope they do take a case but maybe they are awaiting the outcome of the Belgian case.

John Mongo

JRant wrote: »

It points to poor leadership from the AGSI if you ask me. They're sending representatives with a 'mandate' and are acting like 'union' officials. This is just putting your hand out to be slapped. If they want the right to call themselves a union, then do as the Belgium police force are and bring a case to Europe

PDFORRA tried talking like a union last year at one stage and were told in no uncertain terms that they're a Representative Association and nothing more.

John Mongo

tayto lover wrote: »

Shatter must be seething after this. No disciplinary measures taken against the men who turned their backs on him and walked out. The ignomy of it. He must be completely shattered.

I hope they do take a case but maybe they are awaiting the outcome of the Belgian case.

Well then perhaps this incident may serve to remind people in Government that the Commissioner runs AGS, not the Minister.

It's a problem which plagues the DF at times too, people forget the Chief of Staff runs the DF, not the Minister.

tayto lover

John Mongo wrote: »

A deal? Yes. I'm sure the 4 lads hammered out a deal with the Assistant Commissioner.

They were put back in their box and made put together a statement of support for the Commissioner after their little act of insubordination. Didn't do very well out of their "deal" did they?

Then why did this "deal" not include an apology to the Minister for Justice who is MUCH more important than the Commissioner? You keep forgetting to answer this important point.
What punishment did they receive for their "act of insubordination"?