Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

How many people working for the likes of Boards for instance were killed on duty in the last 30/40 years if it is the same for all jobs?

Last year 1 more than the number of Gardai


Jan 4 2013

Workplace deaths In numbers (2012)

Agriculture 21
Construction 8
Fishing 7
Wholesale, retail repairs 4
Water supply, sewerage, waste management etc 3
Transportation storage 1
IT communication 1
Public administration 1
Administrative support 1

Big Davey

tayto lover wrote: »

How many people working for the likes of Boards for instance were killed on duty in the last 30/40 years if it is the same for all jobs?:D

More people die every year in construction industry accidents, cop yourself on, no pun intended :-)

Death and Taxes

Boombastic wrote: »

Last year 1 more than the number of Gardai


Jan 4 2013

Workplace deaths In numbers (2012)

Agriculture 21
Construction 8
Fishing 7
Wholesale, retail repairs 4
Water supply, sewerage, waste management etc 3
Transportation storage 1
IT communication 1
Public administration 1
Administrative support 1

How many of them were murdered in the course of their duty?

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

I bet you would have been a hoot back in Alabama in the 1960@s standing up for the law. Were those laws and regulations right too?
Would you have insisted the Black woman got up and gave you her bus seat?

Some laws and regulations are just stupid.
Refusing anyone a voice is stupid too.
Allowing Unions into talks but making other bodies sit in adjoining rooms getting the odd briefing is stupid too. No wonder they are protesting.

jasus , bit of a stretch there lad - not really a fair or just comparison
we are talking about a wage cut , not state sponsored racism.

if they had a issue with having no voice , they should not have signed up for the Garda , or the army or the navy ect ect
the knw the facts before the took the job

tayto lover

zonEEE wrote: »

Politicians took a oath to act in the best interests of the country/people. This has not been upheld.

The gardai are the one force that could bring the country to a standstill by striking, and I hope they do....

The people of Ireland need a wake up call.

Our forefathers fought for our right to land which the banks are now taking away.

I hope they go on strike too. It would help to bring this house of cards down and we could start again. There is a lot of correcting to be done in this country. This could well be the fuse.

Big Davey

WileyCoyote wrote: »

How many of them were murdered in the course of their duty?

8 died in construction.

JRant

tayto lover wrote: »

How many people working for the likes of Boards for instance were killed on duty in the last 30/40 years if it is the same for all jobs?:D

I was but I'm fine now, thanks for asking.

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

Last year 1 more than the number of Gardai


Jan 4 2013

Workplace deaths In numbers (2012)

Agriculture 21
Construction 8
Fishing 7
Wholesale, retail repairs 4
Water supply, sewerage, waste management etc 3
Transportation storage 1
IT communication 1
Public administration 1
Administrative support 1

Deliberately? If not then why didn't you include RTA statistics?

end of the road

Big Davey wrote: »

they are guards because of keep it country style recruiting

because as far as i know guards are not allowed to work in the same town or village they grew up in.

Big Davey

WileyCoyote wrote: »

How many of them were murdered in the course of their duty?

Sorry re read your comment, murdered or died what is the difference ? If neglect is found on the part of an employer I guess it could be manslaughter ? The families grieve the same.

tayto lover

Big Davey wrote: »

More people die every year in construction industry accidents, cop yourself on, no pun intended :-)

I am not a cop (have been accused of being a SF member, nurse, teacher and God knows what else here).
How many construction workers were murdered for being construction workers?

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

I hope they go on strike too. It would help to bring this house of cards down and we could start again. There is a lot of correcting to be done in this country. This could well be the fuse.

Problem with lighting fires is this ,
Fires will burn all - takes no prisoners

you may bang the table about bringing down the house of cards but the reality of that is far far worse than civil servants getting a pay cut

it annoys me when people shout the burn the place down slogans without realizing the full results of this action

calm heads are needed - not anti Establishment rhetoric that might light a fire none of us can put out

this is why we have garda and defense forces to prevent this , not enable it

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

jasus , bit of a stretch there lad - not really a fair or just comparison
we are talking about a wage cut , not state sponsored racism.

if they had a issue with having no voice , they should not have signed up for the Garda , or the army or the navy ect ect
the knw the facts before the took the job

They may have thought they would have been treated fairly?
That is not happening now.
To stifle a voice or opinion is to deny a right enjoyed by others (Tayto Lover 2013).

SB2013

dj jarvis wrote: »

but very few on this thread have sad they should not be able to voice their concerns - i agree with them , BUT the constitution and garda act is very clear on this - so if they buck this, it sets a dangerous precedence , they can not pick and choose what regulations to uphold and ones to ignore.

its all or nothing - they knew this, and know it - this is why there is not mass walk out by the garda - they are far from stupid.

they know full well what will happen if they push this,
my bet is that after some saber rattling they will back down , but might gain some concessions

This is a no win situation for the garda

the government are loving this - civil servants and the people all fighting over the crumbs

You keep referring to the constitution for some reason. It's not relevent. And the provisions of the Garda Síochána Act may not even be legal under EU law. We'll have to await the courts decision on that.

Big Davey wrote: »

More people die every year in construction industry accidents, cop yourself on, no pun intended :-)

Was there malicious intent in any of those incidents?

tayto lover

Big Davey wrote: »

8 died in construction.

Murdered?

Big Davey

tayto lover wrote: »

I am not a cop (have been accused of being a SF member, nurse, teacher and God knows what else here).
How many construction workers were murdered for being construction workers?

They died because they were a construction in a more dangerous job than gardai , fact. Murdered, died, what's the difference.

fullgas

tayto lover wrote: »

I am not a cop (have been accused of being a SF member, nurse, teacher and God knows what else here).
How many construction workers were murdered for being construction workers?

Using the deaths of others to justify your pay packet is a bit low. Gardaí are on a basic salary of €43k before their generous overtime and allowances. They are well paid for what they do.

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

Deliberately? If not then why didn't you include RTA statistics?

Do the gardai get themselves killed deliberately?

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

They may have thought they would have been treated fairly?
That is not happening now.
To stifle a voice or opinion is to deny a right enjoyed by others (Tayto Lover 2013).

how is getting the same pay cut as the rest of the civil servants being un fairly treated ?
they walked out - they stifled their own opinion .

as i have said many many times on this thread , they cant have it both ways

darkhorse

dj jarvis wrote: »

but all i am pointing out is that they can not walk out, blue flu or strike, its illegal , unconstitutional

I've looked up the constitution, and the relevant amendments and statutes, and it does not say anything about it being illegal or unconstitutional to have the flu.

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

Problem with lighting fires is this ,
Fires will burn all - takes no prisoners

you may bang the table about bringing down the house of cards but the reality of that is far far worse than civil servants getting a pay cut

it annoys me when people shout the burn the place down slogans without realizing the full results of this action

calm heads are needed - not anti Establishment rhetoric that might light a fire none of us can put out

this is why we have garda and defense forces to prevent this , not enable it

You don't seem to have the Garda behind you now.
A dog can be a great help but kick him often enough and he might turn on you too.

Big Davey

tayto lover wrote: »

Murdered?

Who cares ? Are they any less dead ? Only big difference I am sure Garda wives are better looked after financially. So guards lives are WORTH more than other people's lives ?

zonEEE

dj jarvis wrote: »

Problem with lighting fires is this ,
Fires will burn all - takes no prisoners

you may bang the table about bringing down the house of cards but the reality of that is far far worse than civil servants getting a pay cut

it annoys me when people shout the burn the place down slogans without realizing the full results of this action

calm heads are needed - not anti Establishment rhetoric that might light a fire none of us can put out

this is why we have garda and defense forces to prevent this , not enable it

The system does not work, it never has done, we have a serious problem when the government cares more for what the Germans/bondholders think of them rather then their own people.

Safegard your money, stock up on food/water.

Let the fire burn and all the bankers/bondholders/rothschilds in it.

Boombastic

darkhorse wrote: »

I've looked up the constitution, and the relevant amendments and statutes, and it does not say anything about it being illegal or unconstitutional to have the flu.

They didn't really have the flu

tayto lover

Big Davey wrote: »

They died because they were a construction in a more dangerous job than gardai , fact. Murdered, died, what's the difference.

Huge difference between and accident and a deliberate murder.
If you can't see that then I give up.

hawkelady

Big Davey wrote: »

They are guards because of nepotism , keep it country style recruiting , an inferior selection process. Most are ignorant, arrogant, small minded prats totally unsuited to the job. From my experience.

Wow. Sweeping statement. How many guards have you come across " in your experience ". I mean how many is "most"?

your experience has probably consisted of you getting caught by AGS!!
How 'd ya like that sweeping statement.

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

how is getting the same pay cut as the rest of the civil servants being un fairly treated ?
they walked out - they stifled their own opinion .

as i have said many many times on this thread , they cant have it both ways

BUT they didn't walk out. They weren't IN to walk OUT.

Big Davey

darkhorse wrote: »

I've looked up the constitution, and the relevant amendments and statutes, and it does not say anything about it being illegal or unconstitutional to have the flu.

It should be morally wrong to any decent Garda to get blue flu, any Garda that gets blue flu is showing his/her hand in my opinion (scum)

Big Davey

hawkelady wrote: »

Wow. Sweeping statement. How many guards have you come across " in your experience ". I mean how many is "most"?

your experience has probably consisted of you getting caught by AGS!!
How 'd ya like that sweeping statement.

Only thing "most" guards will catch is blue flu. Or maybe an std please read.

http://www.herald.ie/news/garda-accused-of-rape-in-station-28906744.html

Boombastic

Your original question

Originally Posted by tayto lover
How many people working for the likes of Boards for instance were killed on duty in the last 30/40 years if it is the same for all jobs?

tayto lover wrote: »

Huge difference between and accident and a deliberate murder.
If you can't see that then I give up.

Stop changing the parameters because the answer wasn't what you expected. Dead is dead, no matter how they met their end. The were at work and got killed.

tayto lover wrote: »

BUT they didn't walk out. They weren't IN to walk OUT.

AGSI were in the talks and walked out. Links posted earlier in the thread.

The members walked who walked out of the conference were members of AGSI. The GRA weren't in the talks but were represented by the 24/7 alliance.

tayto lover

fullgas wrote: »

Using the deaths of others to justify your pay packet is a bit low. Gardaí are on a basic salary of €43k before their generous overtime and allowances. They are well paid for what they do.

Again I am NOT a Garda. I do support them fully on this though.
Fine Gael supporters are ganging up on them

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

Do the gardai get themselves killed deliberately?

Ah shucks. You are better than that usually.

3ndahalfof6

SB2013 wrote: »

You keep referring to the constitution for some reason. It's not relevent. And the provisions of the Garda Síochána Act may not even be legal under EU law. We'll have to await the courts decision on that.



Was there malicious intent in any of those incidents?

So you are saying, there was malicious intent in the incidents that some or all garda lost their lives,, so I am going to do someting wrong and kill a garda on the way, this does not compute,

you guys need to start reading what DJ is posting from the start of this thread, it beggars belief most of yis can not see his point.

it must be the, do as your told syndrome gone wrong.

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

Your original question





Stop changing the parameters because the answer wasn't what you expected. Dead is dead, no matter how they met their end. The were at work and got killed.



AGSI were in the talks and walked out. Links posted earlier in the thread.

The members walked who walked out of the conference were members of AGSI. The GRA weren't in the talks but were represented by the 24/7 alliance.

The standard of your posts have deteriorated considerably but your anti Garda stance has risen if that's possible.

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

The standard of your posts have deteriorated considerably but your anti Garda stance has risen if that's possible.

Can't admit to being wrong, eh? :P

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

Can't admit to being wrong, eh? :P

You are wrong just like you were on the nurses thread.

SB2013

fullgas wrote: »

Using the deaths of others to justify your pay packet is a bit low. Gardaí are on a basic salary of €43k before their generous overtime and allowances. They are well paid for what they do.

Here is the pay scales for you. Only Gardaí with 11 years or more experience get that. And that doesn't include the pension levy pay cut. http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml

dj jarvis wrote: »

how is getting the same pay cut as the rest of the civil servants being un fairly treated ?
they walked out - they stifled their own opinion .

as i have said many many times on this thread , they cant have it both ways

It's not the same pay cut because civil servants don't work unsocial hours. it represents a much larger cut in the gross pay.

Big Davey wrote: »

Only thing "most" guards will catch is blue flu. Or maybe an std please read.

http://www.herald.ie/news/garda-accused-of-rape-in-station-28906744.html

Yes Gardaí are at high risk for hepatitas A. As such, they have to go through an innoculation program. They are also at risk from many other illnesses as a result of the people they come into contact with. The same can be said for prison guards and nurses.

dj jarvis

zonEEE wrote: »

The system does not work, it never has done, we have a serious problem when the government cares more for what the Germans/bondholders think of them rather then their own people.

Safegard your money, stock up on food/water.

Let the fire burn and all the bankers/bondholders/rothschilds in it.

yea , that worked out great for nations that have done it,

Syria spring to mind

there are many ways to solve this , burning the country down satisfies some blood lust, but is not the answer and never has been.

only a fool would set fire to his own country to weed out a few,
this why we have Garda and defense forces - to prevent crap like that

3ndahalfof6

SB2013 wrote: »

Yes Gardaí are at high risk for hepatitas A. As such, they have to go through an innoculation program. They are also at risk from many other illnesses as a result of the people they come into contact with. The same can be said for prison guards and nurses.

As is Joe soap walking down the street and taxi drivers, your point?

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

BUT they didn't walk out. They weren't IN to walk OUT.

did you not read the link that were put up about this,
they WERE in and WALKED OUT :rolleyes:

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

You are wrong just like you were on the nurses thread.

Where am I wrong in this?

AGSI were in the talks and walked out

GRA were represented by the 24/7 alliance

More people who are not members of the Gardai are killed at work every year



Please point out the flaw in my argument

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

did you not read the link that were put up about this,
they WERE in and WALKED OUT :rolleyes:

According to the General Secretary (can't think of name) they were in a room on a corridor getting feedbacks from some Union rep.
They were never inside at the talks i.e. in the room where the talks were taking place.

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

According to the General Secretary (can't think of name) they were in a room on a corridor getting feedbacks from some Union rep.
They were never inside at the talks i.e. in the room where the talks were taking place.

and they walked from that
it was good enough during bench marking but not good enough now??

this has been said many many times , i suggest you read the thread from the start

twowheelsonly

Boombastic wrote: »

So does bench marking

Gardai got 5% in Benchmarking iirc. Prison Officers got 4% which was paid over 18-24 months. Hardly earth shattering increases that broke the country. 'Benchmarking' seems to be the catch-all phrase when people argue PS wages, but the devil is in the detail. The average was 8.9% rise - once again only those at the top got the big increases, but those at the bottom get all the abuse for it.
People also forget the reason that Benchmarking was introduced.

Going Forward wrote: »

If the Gaurds, nurses, teachers etc. are so unhappy with their pay etc, they are free to offer their talents elsewhere, resign, and get a sackable non secure non pensionable job in the private sector.

Just like that... Get real will ya.

I also am fed up listening to the very misleading claims that each gaurd works every Christmas day along with a picture being painted that each and every gaurd is in imminent danger at all times

They do not, and hopefully will not reach harm, but they are now finding the same qualified sympathy from much of the general public to whom they displayed general arrogance whilst enthusiastically dishing out points for minor RT misdemeanours instead of engaging and constructively warning the general public.

Mix this in with recent and past high profile corruption cases and the wealth of local corruption that occurs below the radar and the fact that each and every ordinary person has accepted cuts that they do not agree with, well we are all in the same boat.

When Garda recruitment begins again there will be a stampede to fill such undesirable positions.

BTW, I'd love know what the 24/7 group (they dont work 24 hours a day btw) But there are members of this group on duty 24 hours a day, seven days a week, including Christmas and other holidays, just in case YOU need their services. make of the very generous volunteers up and down the country who give up their time free of charge, from the likes of the RNLI to the Order of Malta etc. to selflessly serve the community .

Many, many members of these organisations are 24/7 workers as well - but you know that of course. You're just pretending to be dumb.

They must really be dumb

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

60,000 a year(and the rest) and 600 a week pension(2 million input if they were a private sector worker) when they retire in their 50's

get off the fcuking stage:mad:

Straight from the Eddie Hobbs School of PS Bashing. Just don't let actual facts get in the way.

starviewadams wrote: »

They still want boom time level pay and conditions even though it's not the boom anymore.Everyone has taken cuts,get on with or quit.

Thousands of others would happily take their ''undesirable'' and ''dangerous'' jobs in a heartbeat if they did.

I wonder would they??

dj jarvis wrote: »

no, the Garda knew what he was getting into after templemore , as i keep saying , not a peep from them when the wages were going up, now we are in the ****ter , they wont take the cut , like the rest of us , regardless of how or why we are here.

Gardaí have already taken the cuts with the rest of us. 'Officially' it's 14% or so but that doesn't include the USC or the Pension Levy which have taken another 15-20% from the wages of the ordinary guy.

BTW 'The rest of us' haven't all taken hits - many private sector workers have had increases over the last couple of years, something that no Public Sector worker other than Politicians and their cronies have had.



For what it's worth I think that they were dead right to walk out on his speech and it's just a pity that more of them didn't follow.
Strangely enough I don't see Shatter tackling Judges, Barristers or the Free Legal Aid system. Why's that I wonder?

G Power

dj jarvis wrote: »

everyone is forgetting the oath they took - they cant go back on that,
its to uphold the law of the land - part of this regulation is not to strike.

what part of this are people not getting?

everyone is also forgetting our politicians are lying/cheating corrupted fcukers who made their bed and they're going to fcuking well lie in it now!!

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

and they walked from that
it was good enough during bench marking but not good enough now??

this has been said many many times , i suggest you read the thread from the start

I don't care about what happened with their benchmarking. Nothing to do with me.

What I care about is people being able to air their grievances and being able to represent their members and that is not happening here. It will lead to trouble and the public as usual will suffer as a result.

They should be allowed into the room to state their grievances.

3ndahalfof6

Off topic, I see here in the local paper (Aberdeen) Feeena failed, are on the come back big time, they say they are going to do very well in the next by-election, and then laughed, (not at the fact they will do well but how short the Irish memory is).

darkhorse

dj jarvis wrote: »

sure lets EVERYONE stop working , we all have the right to do so , lets bring the house of cards down - rabble rabble rabble

Why not? How better off are we since this this government came to power. Striking en masse might just have woke this government up.

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't care about what happened with their benchmarking. Nothing to do with me.

What I care about is people being able to air their grievances and being able to represent their members and that is not happening here. It will lead to trouble and the public as usual will suffer as a result.

They should be allowed into the room to state their grievances.

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true, or do you want all 14,000 members to be allowed in the room?


Especially for you
http://www.agsi.ie/articles/news-alert-agsi-has-not-returned-to-pay-talks/

AGSI HAS NOT RETURNED TO PAY TALKS

It has come to notice that AGSI is rumoured to have returned to pay talks on Croke Park. This is entirely false. AGSI has not returned to Croke Park / Extension talks or briefings or negotiations.



http://www.frontlinealliance.ie/
The 24/7 Frontline Alliance represents workers, including gardai, nurses, fire fighters, prison officers and ambulance personnel, who deliver emergency and other vital services to the public.........................
There are six affiliated unions and staff associations. They are: the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, the Garda Representative Association, the Irish Nurses & Midwives Organisation, the Prison Officers Association, the and Psychiatric Nurses Association

G Power

darkhorse wrote: »

Why not? How better off are we since this this government came to power. Striking en masse might just have woke this government up.

exactly, lets try the one thing people are somehow afraid of their lives to do