Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

JRant

dj jarvis wrote: »

did you not read the link that were put up about this,
they WERE in and WALKED OUT :rolleyes:

What I don't understand is what they want to achieve from the process?
They seem to be operating under this strange notion that when you enter into negotiations with your employer you have an equal say in matters.

Steve O

For all the sycophants that go on about "it's the law" this and "it's the law" that, they're sure defending the Guards that break it.

I'm noticing a worrying trend that only the "little people" need to be law abiding. When it comes to our politicans, our bankers, our police force, our rich etc, there seems to be an overwhelming apathy towards any crimes or laws they break.

I'm not defending the government here, but the guards sign up to a job they know isn't covered by Unions etc. now they want to be like every other bloated public sector, covered by iron clad union contracts and ridiculous pay packets.

3ndahalfof6

JRant wrote: »

What I don't understand is what they want to achieve from the process?
They seem to be operating under this strange notion that when you enter into negotiations with your employer you have an equal say in matters.

But they are not talking to their employers, hence the problem, if they were they would know what their remit was and shut the fook up, we need some Full metal jacket on this one.

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true, or do you want all 14,000 members to be allowed in the room?


Especially for you
http://www.agsi.ie/articles/news-alert-agsi-has-not-returned-to-pay-talks/

AGSI HAS NOT RETURNED TO PAY TALKS

It has come to notice that AGSI is rumoured to have returned to pay talks on Croke Park. This is entirely false. AGSI has not returned to Croke Park / Extension talks or briefings or negotiations.



http://www.frontlinealliance.ie/
The 24/7 Frontline Alliance represents workers, including gardai, nurses, fire fighters, prison officers and ambulance personnel, who deliver emergency and other vital services to the public.........................
There are six affiliated unions and staff associations. They are: the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, the Garda Representative Association, the Irish Nurses & Midwives Organisation, the Prison Officers Association, the and Psychiatric Nurses Association

Just answer the question for me with a simple "yes " or "no" --

Were the Garda in the room where the talks were taking place?

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

Just answer the question for me with a simple "yes " or "no" --

Were the Garda in the room where the talks were taking place?

Yes the AGSI were until they walked out

AGSI - Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors



Is this your good cop/bad cop routine? :pac:

3ndahalfof6

tayto lover wrote: »

Just answer the question for me with a simple "yes " or "no" --

Were the Garda in the room where the talks were taking place?

Yes and then No.

darkhorse

Big Davey wrote: »

8 died in construction.

Were they murdered?

twowheelsonly

Boombastic wrote: »

Yes the AGSI were until they walked out

AGSI - Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors



Is this your good cop/bad cop routine? :pac:

Wrong - the they were not in 'the' room where the talks were.

The were in another room with the negotiators flitting between them and had no direct input.

Boombastic

twowheelsonly wrote: »

Wrong - the they were not in 'the' room where the talks were.

The were in another room with the negotiators flitting between them and had no direct input.

Link please

JRant

tayto lover wrote: »

Just answer the question for me with a simple "yes " or "no" --

Were the Garda in the room where the talks were taking place?

Who cares? Seriously.

How many employees have their pay cut by management and are then merely informed of any changes once a decision has been made.

I respect the job AGS do but right now it's a straight choice between protecting their pay or protecting services to the millions of citizens in this country.

3ndahalfof6

darkhorse wrote: »

Were they murdered?

Who knows what their wives planned once they got together.

Big Davey

darkhorse wrote: »

Were they murdered?

Please take the time to read through the posts I have answered this question twice already. Murdered, died, employer negligence it does not matter a death is a death. Do you feel a gardas life is worth more than a carpenter or a plumber ?

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

I don't care about what happened with their benchmarking. Nothing to do with me.

What I care about is people being able to air their grievances and being able to represent their members and that is not happening here. It will lead to trouble and the public as usual will suffer as a result.

They should be allowed into the room to state their grievances.

ah look , give it up
you can ignore that facts all you like
they had the chance to be represented at the talks , they walked out
they played a BAD hand far to early , so the garda should be getting at the "union" and no one else, it was them that ****ed up and played right into the govs hands

and they can voice the grievances , in a job that allows it , but they wont leave and they wont strike , becasue lets face it they are well looked after and MOST have a handy number.they know what side their bread is buttered

not all garda stations are in Dublin or cork city ctr , not all deserve the respect and reward some deserve.

VinLieger

JRant wrote: »

Who cares? Seriously.

How many employees have their pay cut by management and are then merely informed of any changes once a decision has been made.

I respect the job AGS do but right now it's a straight choice between protecting their pay or protecting services to the millions of citizens in this country.

It's nowhere near a straight choice, they are fighting for their pay AND cuts to how they do their everyday job, the fact you think that shows how little you understand of the job Gardai actually do, they are under resourced as it is

dj jarvis

darkhorse wrote: »

Why not? How better off are we since this this government came to power. Striking en masse might just have woke this government up.

striking is great - and might wake them up , but some are advocating burning the feckin country down - utter ****e talk,
****e talk from people who are displaying a utter lack of understanding what happens when you start burning and fighting.

sure strike all we want , but trust me , the money will be taken from somewhere , so if not the garda , maybe you , or your sick granny ect ect

VinLieger

Big Davey wrote: »

Please take the time to read through the posts I have answered this question twice already. Murdered, died, employer negligence it does not matter a death is a death. Do you feel a gardas life is worth more than a carpenter or a plumber ?

No but a gardas job is to put his or her life in harms way, do carpenters or plumbers intentionally risk their life on a daily basis?

3ndahalfof6

dj jarvis wrote: »

ah look , give it up
you can ignore that facts all you like
they had the chance to be represented at the talks , they walked out
they played a BAD hand far to early , so the garda should be getting at the "union" and no one else, it was them that ****ed up and played right into the govs hands

and they can voice the grievances , in a job that allows it , but they wont leave and they wont strike , becasue lets face it they are well looked after and MOST have a handy number.they know what side their bread is buttered

not all garda stations are in Dublin or cork city ctr , not all deserve the respect and reward some deserve.

While this is true, it is more than likely off a hazelnut in every bite.

darkhorse

Big Davey wrote: »

Murdered, died, what's the difference.

Get yourself a gun, shoot someone, and when you're up in court, tell the judge that the victim died, see what he'd say.

A_Sober_Paddy

There is alternatives to the blue flu...I've heard a couple, one of which is genius...a proper screw you shatter

Fred Cohen

I see the GRA are not inviting shatter to their AGM

The GRA said it was not prepared to extend an invitation to Minister Shatter as the association had already voted no confidence in him.

What are the odds the commissioner will take disciplinary action against all 8,000 of them?

But then again this is the guy who removed the two gardai, who blew the whistle on the penalty points sham, from the pulse system.

I always thought the role of any CEO was to leave the organisation in a better position than you got it in. Mr Callinan must be feel very proud to have a force where morale is at the level of a caterpillars navel and then to keep digging.

dj jarvis

VinLieger wrote: »

No but a gardas job is to put his or her life in harms way, do carpenters or plumbers intentionally risk their life on a daily basis?

to be fair they dont , but its wrong to say all garda do either.
a bit of balance instead of cheer leading might help the debate.

Boombastic

Fred Cohen wrote: »

I see the GRA are not inviting shatter to their AGM



What are the odds the commissioner will take disciplinary action against all 8,000 of them?

But then again this is the guy who removed the two gardai, who blew the whistle on the penalty points sham, from the pulse system.

I always thought the role of any CEO was to leave the organisation in a better position than you got it in. Mr Callinan must be feel very proud to have a force where morale is at the level of a caterpillars navel and then to keep digging.

He could always just cut their wages

VinLieger

dj jarvis wrote: »

to be fair they dont , but its wrong to say all garda do either.
a bit of balance instead of cheer leading might help the debate.

I would argue the opposite, they may not do it everyday but they are trained to and if ordered expected to

dj jarvis

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

There is alternatives to the blue flu...I've heard a couple, one of which is genius...a proper screw you shatter

and if it does not endanger state security , citizens safety , or cause one extra crime to be committed , then they should do it,

but get it wrong and they will be held to account for a long long time,
no government, of ANY HUE will forget a security force turning on them.

They should go very carefully - they have been burnt once by this government , they will do it again, and poss with some justification if the action goes wrong.

3ndahalfof6

Boombastic wrote: »

He could always just cut their wages

This, instead of paying them and all PSW the big wage, just give them 30k with no deductions, is it not the same thing

I forgot about the kids, runs into a forest for protection, fook we dont have any of them, runs into the woods, ahhhhhhhhhh boooolocks im in me back garden.

JRant

VinLieger wrote: »

No but a gardas job is to put his or her life in harms way, do carpenters or plumbers intentionally risk their life on a daily basis?

Electricians do.

dj jarvis

VinLieger wrote: »

I would argue the opposite, they may not do it everyday but they are trained to and if ordered expected to

no garda will EVER be ordered to give their life , they may give it voluntarily , and tragically , but they are not expected to die on the job , it does just happen sometimes , as it does with plumbers and farmers ect ect

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

Yes the AGSI were until they walked out

AGSI - Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors



Is this your good cop/bad cop routine? :pac:

They were NOT in the room and you have to lie about it.
Says everything about you :pac:
Couldn';t admit it.

sfwcork

I find it laughable how ppl call the tds corrupt while the sun shines out the guards rear end

Did the tds quash over 50k penalty points and fines

tayto lover

JRant wrote: »

Who cares? Seriously.

How many employees have their pay cut by management and are then merely informed of any changes once a decision has been made.

I respect the job AGS do but right now it's a straight choice between protecting their pay or protecting services to the millions of citizens in this country.

I just happen to care. I'm all for equal rights but it seems some are not.

Lelantos

JRant wrote: »

Electricians do.

Only if they're colourblind

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

ah look , give it up
you can ignore that facts all you like
they had the chance to be represented at the talks , they walked out
they played a BAD hand far to early , so the garda should be getting at the "union" and no one else, it was them that ****ed up and played right into the govs hands

and they can voice the grievances , in a job that allows it , but they wont leave and they wont strike , becasue lets face it they are well looked after and MOST have a handy number.they know what side their bread is buttered

not all garda stations are in Dublin or cork city ctr , not all deserve the respect and reward some deserve.

You are ignoring the facts.
They were NOT in the room.

JRant

VinLieger wrote: »

It's nowhere near a straight choice, they are fighting for their pay AND cuts to how they do their everyday job, the fact you think that shows how little you understand of the job Gardai actually do, they are under resourced as it is

Ah yes, the aul you know nothing rebuttle.

Now are they unresourced due to the;
a: current pay structures
b: the exchequer being broke as a joke or
c: a mixture of a & b

twowheelsonly

Boombastic wrote: »

Link please

Unfortunately I don't have a link.

However, the way that this works is that it takes place in the LRC in Ballsbridge and there are actually only a handful of reps, a cross section representing all the groups, in the room negotiating with the 'Official' side. They first work out an 'Overall' plan (which they had been doing since January) then work on the individual tweaks for each sector. As this second part is going on the negotiators come back and forth between each group. Unionised groups can become entrenched and stick to their guns and have stronger powers by virtue of their Union status. Non-Unionised groups can make their opinions known but basically they're fishing for crumbs. Generally though their opinions will be listened to and the will pick up crumbs. How many crumbs at any time is anybodies guess.

This time around it upset the Gardai as most of the cuts seemed to be aimed at allowances/premium payments etc so it was only a small sector would get the worst of the hits. They felt that their opinions were not being brought back in to the table and that they, and other 24/7 members, were the sacrificial lambs. At the time the were probably right to walk but in hindsight, wonderful that it is, they made an error of judgement. They were left with no crumbs.

Once they walked they took their opinion and wishlist with them and so were left with nothing but what had been originally on the table. Had they stayed, I have absolutely no doubt that they would have done ok for their members. Hindsight is wonderful though and at the time the hackles were up and they did what they thought was right.

3ndahalfof6

VinLieger wrote: »

No but a gardas job is to put his or her life in harms way, do carpenters or plumbers intentionally risk their life on a daily basis?

So they wake up in the morning and quiff their hair or rub their bald patch, and pronounce to the mirror, be killed or kill,

while the guy on the site is saying, they do not give a fook.

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

and if it does not endanger state security , citizens safety , or cause one extra crime to be committed , then they should do it,

but get it wrong and they will be held to account for a long long time,
no government, of ANY HUE will forget a security force turning on them.

They should go very carefully - they have been burnt once by this government , they will do it again, and poss with some justification if the action goes wrong.

I'm sure they are more worried about paying their bills than this being held to account nonsense.

3ndahalfof6

tayto lover wrote: »

You are ignoring the facts.
They were NOT in the room.

With the rope in the room.

kala85

What is he actually go to say to these guards? or what will they actually be disciplined for. I think its an absolute disgrace.
What "you walked out of the conference? You disrespected the minister a paid politician?". So what , they walked out. They could have walked out to go to the toilet. They werent on duty at the time . They are entitled to protest.
The rest of the union should have walked out as well. Alan Shatter is a disgrace to this country. He doesnt care. He's on 150K a year, two and a half grand a week. Most gardai arent even getting that a month. Hes getting 12k a year tax free to get to the dail. If they had to pay out of their own pockets for diesel and petrol expenses , they would soon know all about it.

Most other people are broke paying the high cost of diesel and petrol prices. What the government want is for people to be afraid to protest. These politicians are living in another reality. People are broke, bought mortgages at the height of the boom and living from paycheck to paycheck.
Fine Gael TDs dont care. Why should they take another pay cut when the politicians are creaming it in

I think this will backfire on the commissioner and the minister yet big time.

What they are trying to do is to provoke a blue flu it seems. The rest of the unions should stand together with the GRA and refuse to have a pay cut. If the rest of the unions stood together they could shut down the country for a week. Kenny might get a reality check. Some of the unions are almost branches of the governemnt they way they are in negotiations in Croke Park. Public service pay is down 15% with all the pay cuts and levys. Croke Park 1 didnt even last its full term. Another pay cut probably coming and TDs creaming it in. When are the TDs going to have a pay cut and an end to their big pensions.
Whats wrong is that all the union leaders are on massive salaries , all watching their own back to get the next step up on the ladder.Except the Garda rep bodies , who refused rightly to accept the paycuts. Gardai deserve to be paid appropriately for the work they do. They shouldnt be bullied by Shatter and the government.

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

You are ignoring the facts.
They were NOT in the room.

i give up on you - you do understand THEY WERE NEVER IN THE ROOM - ever

and for a good reason - i have said why it is a good reason , if you dont or cant understand that , then sorry for ya

i think most here are getting it - you should read up on why they dont have a union - it really very logical and practical
i could spell it out for you but im not in the habit of banging my head against a wall

good luck with your crusade for free speech , but wont help the garda anytime soon

Treehousetim

Won't be voting fine gael next election on account of that shatter idiot. I've no connection to the gardai except dealing with them as a citizen. Just he puts me right off fine gael. Fair play to the gardai. I admire their stance.

JRant

tayto lover wrote: »

I just happen to care. I'm all for equal rights but it seems some are not.

But you don't have equal rights with your employer though. You have some rights protected under law but this idea of equality is a non-runner as far as I can see.

If you want to dictate your own pay then start your own business.

tayto lover

JRant wrote: »

But you don't have equal rights with your employer though. You have some rights protected under law but this idea of equality is a non-runner as far as I can see.

If you want to dictate your own pay then start your own business.

I have my own business.

So you are saying that some representatives are more equal than others then. Very Orwellian.

Big Davey

Should the fatties behind their desks in the Gardai get the same as the "super tough, life risking " gardai that the fools around here are blabbering about ? How many pen pushing gardai risk their lives ?

Boombastic

Big Davey wrote: »

Should the fatties behind their desks in the Gardai get the same as the "super tough, life risking " gardai that the fools around here are blabbering about ? How many pen pushing gardai risk their lives ?

All of them, How dare you question it. I heard from a nameless guy on the radio the islands are the most dangerous. There was a whistle stolen last week. They deserve their extra allowances :pac:

frankie_fisher

i dont care about shatters personal likability factor , im glad we have a minister for justice who is pretty indifferent to public opinion , its what is needed to tackle the over entitled AGS , the alternative is some bandwagon jumping populist who likes to engage in endless eulogising of the so called " frontline "

tayto lover

Big Davey wrote: »

Should the fatties behind their desks in the Gardai get the same as the "super tough, life risking " gardai that the fools around here are blabbering about ? How many pen pushing gardai risk their lives ?

Don't all the prisoners and criminals get the same food in jail

Hitchens

JUSTICE MINISTER ALAN Shatter has said today that an “unexpected number” of gardaí accessed the PULSE computer system in relation to the arrest of Clare Daly in January for suspected drink driving.

Fred Cohen

Boombastic wrote: »

He could always just cut their wages

Been there, done that, bought the anti stab vest.

3ndahalfof6

As was said earlier, they signed up and they contributed to a core belief, now they want to side step it, munching on spit pork or roasted frog, how dare you how very dare you.

frankie_fisher

Hitchens wrote: »

JUSTICE MINISTER ALAN Shatter has said today that an “unexpected number” of gardaí accessed the PULSE computer system in relation to the arrest of Clare Daly in January for suspected drink driving.

that stitch up failed but mud still sticks so the guards got a small victory