Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

dj jarvis

tayto lover wrote: »

If he was not a political appointee then it might not have come to this.
Shatter is using his puppet for his own personal agenda here and very few seem to recognise that.
Shatter has a history with the garda force as I read on another thread.

LOL , you are a gas man

im not even going to bother

good night tayto - its been educational

frankie_fisher

Dwork wrote: »

I was always a bit "meh" when it came to the Gards and how their job was hard, etc etc. Then we got some work off the OPW - at Sundrive Garda station. After spending time working there, I got a whole new appreciation for the level of sh1te they get day to day.

While they can be a pain in the butt dealing with them over petty stuff, road checkpoints, getting forms signed(they don't win many prizes on that front) I watched younger Gards coming in off patrol and slumping into arm-chairs in the stations rest room, knackered, and still having to listen to scumbags roaring, shouting, fighting in the cell block beside it. And then get up and go back out for more.

So, do they deserve their money? I reckon they do. I also think that what they do is a job. You can dress it up as some sort of sacred duty, but it's a job at the end of the day. And everyone wants the best pay they can get for doing their job. And everyone wants to have the power of saying "feck off and leave my pay alone" if they feel it's under threat.

you have your personal experience

others have theirs , if i detailed mine , no doubt crisp lover would dismiss it as an anecdote

frankie_fisher

eagle eye wrote: »

I didn't say they were I said I'm glad that somebody has and hopefully it spreads. We shouldn't be paying off bank debts while people in the public service have to go and look for handouts from social welfare in order to survive.

what public servants are in such a possition ?

btard

I sincerley didn't believe it when I was told these Garda were up on disciplinary charges. I thought it was just the usual media speculation and **** stiring. I find it disturbing that any Garda Commisssioner could be this stupid. I could believe it of any Minister, especially Shatter. I could believe anything of Shatter. However, I assumed someone who had been appointed to such an important position as Garda Commisssioner would have at least some semblance of common sense. It seems I was wrong. I await with anticipation the **** storm to follow.

frankie_fisher

scwazrh wrote: »

I don't think their wages should have gone as high as they did.Public sector wages increased because of the workers basically saying look how much everyone in the private sector is earning . Their wages went up in the good times and have to come down in the bad times

the wages went up because we had a leader named bertie aherne , the public sector was always ahead of the private sector during the boom in terms of wages

Boombastic

tayto lover wrote: »

Ha ha you accused me of being a nurse on the other thread.
Make up your mind instead of losing bit.

I think you need to look up the definition of 'accused'. Sure all the civil and public sector pensions are good along with the option of early retirement.

tayto lover wrote: »

No. They say they were not allowed to defend their position and that more cuts were aimed at them than any other section i.e. at their allowances for working out of hours.
So they were not being represented. Read the full facts.

"boo hoo" and "childish" are more appropriate to several of you.

So who were the officials Redmond talked to in the 5 meetings he attended?

frankie_fisher

btard wrote: »

I sincerley didn't believe it when I was told these Garda were up on disciplinary charges. I thought it was just the usual media speculation and **** stiring. I find it disturbing that any Garda Commisssioner could be this stupid. I could believe it of any Minister, especially Shatter. I could believe anything of Shatter. However, I assumed someone who had been appointed to such an important position as Garda Commisssioner would have at least some semblance of common sense. It seems I was wrong. I await with anticipation the **** storm to follow.

their bringing their org into disrepute , they should be disciplined severley

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

i did read the facts , i even posted them , look , look up one post , see ?? i put them their for you , no need to thank me

Opinions are not facts.

JRant

Kristopherus wrote: »

The pension levy is a cut. plain & simple. It does not go into any pension fund. It goes to fill that black hole called Anglo:mad:

The pension levy would have to be multiple times what it currently is to cover the renumeration they recieve once retired.

Anyways the pension system requires the current workers to cover the current pensioners.

Dwork

frankie_fisher wrote: »

you have your personal experience

others have theirs , if i detailed mine , no doubt crisp lover would dismiss it as an anecdote

Not really, I've had loads of crap experiences with the gards, I could list out a million failings, cock ups, laziness, blind arrogance etc etc. I doubt any Police force anywhere is different. I've also known a fair few totally corrupt cops, every force has them, usually in spades. But, if you're going to have a Police force, you'd better keep them happy on the money front, otherwise they'll just get worse. The nature of the job is dealing with the dregs. You need to pay your police enough to be able to stay above that level. Ah sure, feck em. I doubt they'll be worrying wether I get a raise. I'll shut up now and leave them at it.:D

eagle eye

frankie_fisher wrote: »

what public servants are in such a possition ?

Lots of them with young families are receiving FIS. In fact I'm aware of a guy who was in a position that an increment of €39 would remove him from FIS and leave him a lot worse off and in danger of not being able to pay his re-arranged mortgage. He was saying that the only way not to get it would be to go sick and not be eligible for the increment. I'd be pretty certain this lad is a very good worker and certainly wouldn't take sick days but his young family comes first.

Such a ridiculous situation.

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

I think you need to look up the definition of 'accused'. Sure all the civil and public sector pensions are good along with the option of early retirement.

Don't care about CS pensions or retirements to be honest.

This is about the right to be represented at talks that effect your work, pay and conditions. Nothing more.
That is being denied to them.

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

I think you need to look up the definition of 'accused'. Sure all the civil and public sector pensions are good along with the option of early retirement.





So who were the officials Redmond talked to in the 5 meetings he attended?

He shouldn't have had to talk to any other officials.

frankie_fisher

eagle eye wrote: »

Lots of them with young families are receiving FIS. In fact I'm aware of a guy who was in a position that an increment of €39 would remove him from FIS and leave him a lot worse off and in danger of not being able to pay his re-arranged mortgage. He was saying that the only way not to get it would be to go sick and not be eligible for the increment. I'd be pretty certain this lad is a very good worker and certainly wouldn't take sick days but his young family comes first.

Such a ridiculous situation.

hard cases make bad policy

the state cannot account for every single unfortunate individual situation , for whatever reason , some people are poor at managing their finance , beit due to poor purchases , addiction issues or whatever

true

eagle eye wrote: »

They took up a job that had a 30 year contract with a very good pension at the end of it, they are now earning less money as the years go by and their pension will not be worth anything close to what it should be.

the pension the average garda who left school with a pass leaving cert in 1982 gets now for the rest of his f***ing life is worth 1.3 million, according to the rte programme last night....and you think that f***ing pension is not good enough?

end of the road

omahaid wrote: »

I have to say I'm impressed that Shatter is standing up to the garda unions.

good for you, it will be his downfall, can guarintee it, he won't do anything that could mean the guards fully walking out.

omahaid wrote: »

As a civilian it makes me very nervous to see the way the gardai are behaving over the last few months.

what way are they behaving? trying to keep good working conditions and pay so they can feed their families, oh how aweful, they should be shot.

omahaid wrote: »

I always assumed they were a disciplined force but I see that isn't really the case.

rubbish, our guardai are one of the most disciplined forces in the world

frankie_fisher

end of the road wrote: »

good for you, it will be his downfall, can guarintee it, he won't do anything that could mean the guards fully walking out.

what way are they behaving? trying to keep good working conditions and pay so they can feed their families, oh how aweful, they should be shot.

rubbish, our guardai are one of the most disciplined forces in the world

feed their families :rolleyes:

more like re carpet that investment property in dublin 6

eagle eye

true wrote: »

the pension the average garda who left school with a pass leaving cert in 1982 gets now for the rest of his f***ing life is worth 1.3 million, according to the rte programme last night....and you think that f***ing pension is not good enough?

How many years is that based over?

tayto lover

I think Shatter will fall on his sword too.
Either that of Kenny will re-route him.
The country cannot afford to have this situation escalating. It would look bad for the Govt and the Europeans would not like it.

The Garda seem pretty angry and any disciplinary measures against their Representatives could lead to them going all out.

Some kind of mediation needs to be put in place at once but if they go out it might bring the whole country to it's senses regarding what is happening to our country and how it's governed.

JRant

eagle eye wrote: »

You hardly expect somebody in their late 40s/early 50s who have been public servants their whole lives to suddenly re-educate themselves and go start their own business. They took up a job that had a 30 year contract with a very good pension at the end of it, they are now earning less money as the years go by and their pension will not be worth anything close to what it should be.

It seems its ok to default on the public servants of this country but not on the banks.

Why not?
Plenty of others do it, whats so special about civil/public servants?
The rest of us will be working till we're 65+.

I've been working since I was 16 in one sort of job or another. If I keep going till I'm 65 it'll be 49 years with zero gaurantee that my pension will worth anything.

Chucky the tree

tayto lover wrote: »

Don't care about CS pensions or retirements to be honest.

This is about the right to be represented at talks that effect your work, pay and conditions. Nothing more.
That is being denied to them.

lol. That's like claiming a prisoners freedom is being denied because he broke the law - scandalous!!111!!!

frankie_fisher

tayto lover wrote: »

I think Shatter will fall on his sword too.
Either that of Kenny will re-route him.
The country cannot afford to have this situation escalating. It would look bad for the Govt and the Europeans would not like it.

The Garda seem pretty angry and any disciplinary measures against their Representatives could lead to them going all out.

Some kind of mediation needs to be put in place at once but if they go out it might bring the whole country to it's senses regarding what is happening to our country and how it's governed.

you think europeans support the idea of ireland paying its police 25% more than they do , if goverment decides to appease the guards , its only because they need them on side in the event of social unrest due to austerity

now i can see why that would be sensible from a goverment POV but surely it would reflect poorly upon AGS itself , afterall , most on this thread seem to believe that guards are regular folk like the rest of us , suffering at the hands of the big bad gov

tayto lover

JRant wrote: »

Why not?
Plenty of others do it, whats so special about civil/public servants?
The rest of us will be working till we're 65+.

I've been working since I was 16 in one sort of job or another. If I keep going till I'm 65 it'll be 49 years with zero gaurantee that my pension will worth anything.

Ffs if they all decided to change we're banjaxed

end of the road

frankie_fisher wrote: »

feed their families

yes exactly that, feed their families.

frankie_fisher wrote: »

more like re carpet that investment property in dublin 6

absolute bull, you need to stop listening to crap from the states propaganda machine

eagle eye

The timing doesn't suit the Government either. The public servants whose Unions stayed in the meeting are just voting on whether to accept proposals now. They could get an overwhelming rejection on Croke Park 2 with this going on.

In general people public servants don't want to piss off the government but I don't think they want to piss off the garda siochana either.

eagle eye

JRant wrote: »

Why not?
Plenty of others do it, whats so special about civil/public servants?
The rest of us will be working till we're 65+.

I've been working since I was 16 in one sort of job or another. If I keep going till I'm 65 it'll be 49 years with zero gaurantee that my pension will worth anything.

What age are you?

tayto lover

frankie_fisher wrote: »

you think europeans support the idea of ireland paying its police 25% more than they do , if goverment decides to appease the guards , its only because they need them on side in the event of social unrest due to austerity

now i can see why that would be sensible from a goverment POV but surely it would reflect poorly upon AGS itself , afterall , most on this thread seem to believe that guards are regular folk like the rest of us , suffering at the hands of the big bad gov

I am sure they do care BUT I believe they care about their loved ones first.
Anyway public sentiment won't pay their bills.
Why have the Frontline people been hit hardest?

frankie_fisher

end of the road wrote: »

yes exactly that, feed their families.

absolute bull, you need to stop listening to crap from the states propaganda machine

RTE is vehemently pro public sector , always has been

all media outlets are pro frontline

btard

frankie_fisher wrote: »

their bringing their org into disrepute , they should be disciplined severley

I hope you and the other reactionaries get your wish on this. I have a strong feeling this could be the spark that kicks it all off at last. Once the genie is out of the bottle, no amount of lies and propaganda from the government will stop it.

tayto lover

frankie_fisher wrote: »

RTE is vehemently pro public sector , always has been

all media outlets are pro frontline

Ah would you go away with that :pac:

frankie_fisher

tayto lover wrote: »

I am sure they do care BUT I believe they care about their loved ones first.
Anyway public sentiment won't pay their bills.
Why have the Frontline people been hit hardest?

the frontline were overpaid compared to their counterparts in mainland europe up to lately , they are still ahead of them

its irrelevant how many cuts someone experiences , all that matters is how much they get paid

tayto lover

Chucky the tree wrote: »

lol. That's like claiming a prisoners freedom is being denied because he broke the law - scandalous!!111!!!

Rubbish there's absolutely no comparison.

Pappa Charlie

Shatter and his puppet commissioner have managed to gel the entire force against them today! Talk about digging a hole for themselves!

tayto lover

frankie_fisher wrote: »

the frontline were overpaid compared to their counterparts in mainland europe up to lately , they are still ahead of them

its irrelevant how many cuts someone experiences , all that matters is how much they get paid

You better give the figures for Europe then if you're going to compare.
Cost of houses, cars, food , doctors etc.

Really hate these comparisons with other places.

true

frankie_fisher wrote: »

you think europeans support the idea of ireland paying its police 25% more than they do

I would not think so. Thats why the troika / IMF / EU are putting pressure on the government to cut Garda and public service pay and pensions here.

frankie_fisher

tayto lover wrote: »

Ah would you go away with that :pac:

during the run up to the croke park 2 agreement , for several weeks , we had on the hour reports about every minutia of detail relating to the negotiations , ingrid miley breathlessly reporting from siptu hq , such importance was attached to the whole thing , one would thing WW3 was imminent

what other sector of the economy earns such media focus ?

people are conditioned by rte into believing certain professions - sectors are especially worthy

hence the endless eulogising of the likes of the frontline which was coined by various unions but delivered by RTE

frankie_fisher

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Shatter and his puppet commissioner have managed to gel the entire force against them today! Talk about digging a hole for themselves!

so what would you perfer , santa claus or bertie aherne as he was formally known , the man who endlessly gave out presents which the tax payer couldnt afford

tayto lover

frankie_fisher wrote: »

during the run up to the croke park 2 agreement , for several weeks , we had on the hour reports about every minutia of detail relating to the negotiations , ingrid miley breathlessly reporting from siptu hq , such importance was attached to the whole thing , one would thing WW3 was imminent

what other sector of the economy earns such media focus ?

people are conditioned by rte into believing certain professions - sectors are especially worthy

hence the endless eulogising of the likes of the frontline which was coined by various unions but delivered by RTE

You are entitled to your opinion on that but i disagree.
I can feel the hatred in the voice and tone of people like Pat Kenny and those Morning Ireland reporters who clearly, to me, have their claws sharpened.

frankie_fisher

tayto lover wrote: »

You better give the figures for Europe then if you're going to compare.
Cost of houses, cars, food , doctors etc.

Really hate these comparisons with other places.

the cost of living is a red herring , their is no entitlement to a particular salary based on the cost of living , canada has always been more expensive than the usa yet up until very recently , wages were always less , besides , the cost of living is the same for private sector aswell as public yet the public sector earns at least 30% more on average

like i said , cost of living is a red herring

HondaSami

frankie_fisher wrote: »

you think europeans support the idea of ireland paying its police 25% more than they do , if goverment decides to appease the guards , its only because they need them on side in the event of social unrest due to austerity

How does our politicians pay compare with what their European buddies get ?

frankie_fisher

tayto lover wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion on that but i disagree.
I can feel the hatred in the voice and tone of people like Pat Kenny and those Morning Ireland reporters who clearly, to me, have their claws sharpened.

i can feel the haughty sense of disaproval in yours

frankie_fisher

HondaSami wrote: »

How does our politicians pay compare with what their European buddies get ?

and your point is what

tayto lover

frankie_fisher wrote: »

the cost of living is a red herring , their is no entitlement to a particular salary based on the cost of living , canada has always been more expensive than the usa yet up until very recently , wages were always less , besides , the cost of living is the same for private sector aswell as public yet the public sector earns at least 30% more on average

like i said , cost of living is a red herring

"The cost of living has nothing to do with it"

Would you buy the same car here or in Newry if you had a choice if that is the case?

tayto lover

frankie_fisher wrote: »

i can feel the haughty sense of disaproval in yours

Yes indeed.
I have always stood up and been counted when I saw a wrong.
It's just my way.

I should have been a Garda

HondaSami

frankie_fisher wrote: »

and your point is what

It's ok to compare some wages but not politicians pay ?
why are our politician paid so well?

JRant

eagle eye wrote: »

What age are you?

33, why?

Chucky the tree

tayto lover wrote: »

Rubbish there's absolutely no comparison.

they walked out of the talks. They gave up their right to have a say so they can't whinge now about it.

Pappa Charlie

frankie_fisher wrote: »

so what would you perfer , santa claus or bertie aherne as he was formally known , the man who endlessly gave out presents which the tax payer couldnt afford

Just fair play, respect and a bit of dignity!

tayto lover

Chucky the tree wrote: »

they walked out of the talks. They gave up their right to have a say so they can't whinge now about it.

They were not in the talks.
Rooms in a corridor adjoining the room where the talks were being held and getting feedback is NOT being in the talks.

I actually believed they were in there until a week or two ago.
Shatter was bullsh1tting all along.
I had this confirmed by a Union man I know and who was close to the action.

frankie_fisher

HondaSami wrote: »

It's ok to compare some wages but not politicians pay ?
why are our politician paid so well?

all our public servants are paid above the european average , politicans included , luckily their are a lot less politicans than guards etc , this thread isnt about politicans , if you wish to open one about politicans pay , il contribute