Garda Sgts facing disciplinary hearing after walkout.

frankie_fisher

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Just fair play, respect and a bit of dignity!

all subjective ideals

i believe guards are paid too well , again of course subjective

tayto lover

frankie_fisher wrote: »

all our public servants are paid above the european average , politicans included , luckily their are a lot less politicans than guards etc

Thankfully. FYP.

Boombastic

I've converted the amounts to euro's. They have a 10 point pay scale
UK 15 January 2013

Starting salaries will be cut by up to £4,259 (€5044) from April, making the starting salary £19,000 (€22,501). This salary will be given to those with the least or no relevant experience - such as those who join at 18. But some recruits will start on £22,000 (€26,054) if they have some experience, such as time spent as a special constable. The change in starting salaries will save an estimated £140m over five years.

But the deal also means that many constables will have the opportunity to move to the top of the pay scale - currently around £36,000 (€42,633) - more quickly



Ireland
CURRENT PAY GARDA RANK 2013

On attestation -27,100
After 22 weeks -29,792
After 1 year -31,442.............................

After 5 years -42,609
After 10 years -44,744
After 17 years - 48,695

JRant

HondaSami wrote: »

It's ok to compare some wages but not politicians pay ?
why are our politician paid so well?

Simply put, they set their own pay levels.

tayto lover

Boombastic wrote: »

I've converted the amounts to euro's. They have a 10 point pay scale
UK 15 January 2013

Starting salaries will be cut by up to £4,259 (€5044) from April, making the starting salary £19,000 (€22,501). This salary will be given to those with the least or no relevant experience - such as those who join at 18. But some recruits will start on £22,000 (€26,054) if they have some experience, such as time spent as a special constable. The change in starting salaries will save an estimated £140m over five years.

But the deal also means that many constables will have the opportunity to move to the top of the pay scale - currently around £36,000 (€42,633) - more quickly



Ireland
CURRENT PAY GARDA RANK 2013

On attestation -27,100
After 22 weeks -29,792
After 1 year -31,442.............................

After 5 years -42,609
After 10 years -44,744
After 17 years - 48,695

Can you find out if the Garda get an allowance for working in Dublin or on the border please. I know that police in London get more than other police.

HondaSami

Boombastic wrote: »

I've converted the amounts to euro's. They have a 10 point pay scale
UK 15 January 2013

Starting salaries will be cut by up to £4,259 (€5044) from April, making the starting salary £19,000 (€22,501). This salary will be given to those with the least or no relevant experience - such as those who join at 18. But some recruits will start on £22,000 (€26,054) if they have some experience, such as time spent as a special constable. The change in starting salaries will save an estimated £140m over five years.

But the deal also means that many constables will have the opportunity to move to the top of the pay scale - currently around £36,000 (€42,633) - more quickly




Ireland
CURRENT PAY GARDA RANK 2013

On attestation -27,100
After 22 weeks -29,792
After 1 year -31,442.............................

After 5 years -42,609
After 10 years -44,744
After 17 years - 48,695

This is before any deductions, the pay is not as good as some people make it out to be and the hours are hard to do, I know it's everyone choice and shift work is part of it but not everyone would do the job.

aloyisious

I'm surprised that anyone here actually think's that the four Garda Sgts who walked out of the Annual Conference of their representative body (in line with the instructions of the members they were nominated to represent) when two invited guest speakers began to speak should face internal disciplinary action within the Garda Disciplinary Code.

To my mind, the conference was a private function held by the AGSI, not an official Garda function convened by the Minister or the Commissioner which the Sgts were ordered or obliged to attend. It might have been rude of them to walk out on the boss and the Govt Rep, but those two people were guests of the AGSI, who were the conveners of the conference.

It seem's to me that a complaint from either or both of the offended persons to the AGSI might be the better way to go about it, even if it included a PR briefing to the media about the complaint letters so the letters would be in the public domain.

frankie_fisher

aloyisious wrote: »

I'm surprised that anyone here actually think's that the four Garda Sgts who walked out of the Annual Conference of their representative body (in line with the instructions of the members they were nominated to represent) when two invited guest speakers began to speak should face internal disciplinary action within the Garda Disciplinary Code.

To my mind, the conference was a private function held by the AGSI, not an official Garda function convened by the Minister or the Commissioner which the Sgts were ordered or obliged to attend. It might have been rude of them to walk out on the boss and the Govt Rep, but those two people were guests of the AGSI, who were the conveners of the conference.

It seem's to me that a complaint from either or both of the offended persons to the AGSI might be the better way to go about it, even if it included a PR briefing to the media about the complaint letters so the letters would be in the public domain.

the guards in question made a sharp ended political statement by staging a walkout

Chucky the tree

tayto lover wrote: »

They were not in the talks.
Rooms in a corridor adjoining the room where the talks were being held and getting feedback is NOT being in the talks.

I actually believed they were in there until a week or two ago.
Shatter was bullsh1tting all along.
I had this confirmed by a Union man I know and who was close to the action.

So the AGSI lied? That's disgraceful on their part.

Pappa Charlie

Maybe if the people of this country had the balls to stand up to politicans like the 4 AGSI members we wouldn't have the troika ramming austerity down our throats, guess its easier for some posters to be key board warriors and try and run down those who have the balls to do it, it's no co incidence that its those who face down criminals daily who are now standing up and being counted and calling halt and they will get great support both from gardai and the general public!

tayto lover

aloyisious wrote: »

I'm surprised that anyone here actually think's that the four Garda Sgts who walked out of the Annual Conference of their representative body (in line with the instructions of the members they were nominated to represent) when two invited guest speakers began to speak should face internal disciplinary action within the Garda Disciplinary Code.

To my mind, the conference was a private function held by the AGSI, not an official Garda function convened by the Minister or the Commissioner which the Sgts were ordered or obliged to attend. It might have been rude of them to walk out on the boss and the Govt Rep, but those two people were guests of the AGSI, who were the conveners of the conference.

It seem's to me that a complaint from either or both of the offended persons to the AGSI might be the better way to go about it, even if it included a PR briefing to the media about the complaint letters so the letters would be in the public domain.

How did 4 lads walking out of their own meeting break any disciplinary code?
They were there in their own time.
A good solicitor would tie Shatter and Co up in knots.

tayto lover

Chucky the tree wrote: »

So the AGSI lied? That's disgraceful on their part.

Ah wishful thinking on your part
I know you are aware of the truth.

frankie_fisher

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Maybe if the people of this country had the balls to stand up to politicans like the 4 AGSI members we wouldn't have the troika ramming austerity down our throats, guess its easier for some posters to be key board warriors and try and run down those who have the balls to do it, it's no co incidence that its those who face down criminals daily who are now standing up and being counted and calling halt and they will get great support both from gardai and the general public!

so you think the guards are striking a blow for all of us victims of troika austerity , that it ?

true

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Maybe if the people of this country had the balls to stand up to politicans like the 4 AGSI members we wouldn't have the troika ramming austerity down our throats

You surely mean that if the people of this country/ politicians had the balls to stand up to Gardai and public servants, we wouldn't have the situation where the average Garda pension is worth 1.3 million euro (according to RTE last night ) , and the troika ramming austerity down the rest of our throats.

dj jarvis

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Maybe if the people of this country had the balls to stand up to politicans like the 4 AGSI members we wouldn't have the troika ramming austerity down our throats, guess its easier for some posters to be key board warriors and try and run down those who have the balls to do it, it's no co incidence that its those who face down criminals daily who are now standing up and being counted and calling halt and they will get great support both from gardai and the general public!

and its no coincidence that they stand up when its THEIR pay and conditions that are at stake
I dont remember the garda coming out when the waterford crystal workers lost their jobs , or when dell dumped limerick in the **** , no , its when the chicken has come home to roost the suddenly spring into action,
if you are looking for solidarity then give it also.

they have the right to better than average pay considering the ****ty job some of them have to do , fair enough , i have no problem with that , but it also has to be accepted that they have a great retirement age , great pension and not bad pay in between

if they were the only ones being targeted i would be agree its un fair and un just - but they are not , and if im not mistaken , CP II has a promise of no more cuts , so no more cuts , job for life and a handy retirement

time to take stock and consider their position.
the ASGI sold them a pup - and now are moaning for getting caught out

Pappa Charlie

frankie_fisher wrote: »

so you think the guards are striking a blow for all of us victims of troika austerity , that it ?

You just stay behind your keyboard!

Vizzy

true wrote: »

You surely mean that if the people of this country/ politicians had the balls to stand up to Gardai and public servants, we wouldn't have the situation where the average Garda pension is worth 1.3 million euro (according to RTE last night ) , and the troika ramming austerity down the rest of our throats.

See,thats the thing though isn't it.?
Ye would all love to reduce Nurses pay or Garda numbers or Local Authority personnel until Granny gets sick or Maura gets burgled or Johnny needs the road outside his house repaired.
Then everything changes

frankie_fisher

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

You just stay behind your keyboard!

a student of the pj stone school of debating style i see :rolleyes:

dj jarvis

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

You just stay behind your keyboard!

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

im with you - because im sure you are out 24/7 fighting perceived injustices for whatever topic is "hot" on AH at the moment.

I hate these keyboard warriors :rolleyes:

Pappa Charlie

frankie_fisher wrote: »

so you think the guards are striking a blow for all of us victims of troika austerity , that it ?

Maybe they have more of a grasp of justice and injustice than your average keyboard warrior!

frankie_fisher

Vizzy wrote: »

See,thats the thing though isn't it.?
Ye would all love to reduce Nurses pay or Garda numbers or Local Authority personnel until Granny gets sick or Maura gets burgled or Johnny needs the road outside his house repaired.
Then everything changes

always amazes me how some people view that jaded arguement as either clever or effective

all it says is that if you dont pay us , we,l refuse to investigate burglury or give your a tetnus injection if you visit the hospital , do you think blackmail either reflects well upon those trying it or remotley wins over the general public

people who trot out such cliches sound like unthinking sheep

oh and btw , where i live the roads are impassable with potholes , thats what happens when all funds are ringfenced for pensions and wages , with croke park 2 in the bag , i can look forward to a road which looks like swiss cheese for the next few years

Boombastic

UK

£1200 -€1420 (unsociable allowances pay)

£4,338 - €5137 (London, to be paid at the discretion of the chief constable)
£3288 - €3893 (London Weighting)


£1,000 - €1184) outside London,to be paid at the discretion of the chief constable)

Police officer in London Total €32, 951 (€5137 of that paid at the discretion of the chief constable)

Outside London - €25,105 (1184 of that paid at the discretion of the chief constable)



Ireland (I've just added basic allowances but I'm sure there's more)
Rent €4,162.48
Boot 152
Uniform 256

On attestation - 31670
after 22 weeks -34362

HondaSami

dj jarvis wrote: »

iCP II has a promise of no more cuts , so no more cuts , job for life and a handy retirement

Did cp1 not promise no more cuts ? This government cannot be trusted, they still have a clause where they can ask for more cuts if needed.

frankie_fisher

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Maybe they have more of a grasp of justice and injustice than your average keyboard warrior!

maybe your mother knocked back a few too many whiskeys while carrying you


see i can personalise too

can this little game now end

Vizzy

[QUOTE=dj jarvis;83870350

if they were the only ones being targeted i would be agree its un fair and un just - but they are not , and if im not mistaken , CP II has a promise of no more cuts , so no more cuts , job for life and a handy retirement [/QUOTE]

So had CP1 and here we are 18 months before that was due to expire,asked to vote on pay cuts and extra hours(which are effectively a paycut by another name)

darkhorse

scwazrh wrote: »

I don't think their wages should have gone as high as they did.Public sector wages increased because of the workers basically saying look how much everyone in the private sector is earning . Their wages went up in the good times and have to come down in the bad times

So, why should the cost of living not come down in line with the wage cuts, in the bad times?

dj jarvis

HondaSami wrote: »

Did cp1 not promise no more cuts ? This government cannot be trusted, they still have a clause where they can ask for more cuts if needed.

no CPI promised no cuts.................. UNLESS IT GOT WORSE MMMUUHHHAHAHAH

and it has, so..........................

Pappa Charlie

dj jarvis wrote: »

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

im with you - because im sure you are out 24/7 fighting perceived injustices for whatever topic is "hot" on AH at the moment.

I hate these keyboard warriors :rolleyes:

Just like you!

frankie_fisher

darkhorse wrote: »

So, why should the cost of living not come down in line with the wage cuts, in the bad times?

the cost of living cannot be entirely regulated by the goverment , besides , their is no direct - automatic correlation between cost of living and wages , they two tend to move in tandem to a large degree but its by no means a mathematical certainty

Vizzy

frankie_fisher wrote: »

always amazes me how some people view that jaded arguement as either clever or effective

all it says is that if you dont pay us , we,l refuse to investigate burglury or give your a tetnus injection if you visit the hospital , do you think blackmail either reflects well upon those trying it or remotley wins over the general public

people who trot out such cliches sound like unthinking sheep

oh and btw , where i live the roads are impassable with potholes , thats what happens when all funds are ringfenced for pensions and wages , with croke park 2 in the bag , i can look forward to a road which looks like swiss cheese for the next few years

I presume that with the spelling in this post that you would favour longer teaching hours in school

frankie_fisher

Vizzy wrote: »

I presume that with the spelling in this post that you would favour longer teaching hours in school

:pac:


you got your laugh

happy ?

dj jarvis

Vizzy wrote: »

So had CP1 and here we are 18 months before that was due to expire,asked to vote on pay cuts and extra hours(which are effectively a paycut by another name)

see post 378

it was in the CPI agreement that if the fiscal situation change for the worse , they could amend the terms later,

i think the fiscal situation is .............. how shall i put this ?

****ed

I say it again , Garda pay and conditions are good now , a cut like all the rest is needed , if the AGSI are so concerned about the members take home pay , then why dont they advance a plan on working practices to make savings as many other government departments have had to do.

then take home pay could be maintained, its a give give world out there , they cant just opt out

frankie_fisher

if the AGS union - representitive body was so concerned about cuts to garda pay , why did they keep quite a year ago when large numbers of guards ( with considerable time under their belt ) retired on exceptionally generous pensions ?

surely they knew the well would be lowered and less would be left for those who hung on or were about to join up

Pappa Charlie

dj jarvis wrote: »

and its no coincidence that they stand up when its THEIR pay and conditions that are at stake
I dont remember the garda coming out when the waterford crystal workers lost their jobs , or when dell dumped limerick in the **** , no , its when the chicken has come home to roost the suddenly spring into action,
if you are looking for solidarity then give it also.

they have the right to better than average pay considering the ****ty job some of them have to do , fair enough , i have no problem with that , but it also has to be accepted that they have a great retirement age , great pension and not bad pay in between

if they were the only ones being targeted i would be agree its un fair and un just - but they are not , and if im not mistaken , CP II has a promise of no more cuts , so no more cuts , job for life and a handy retirement

time to take stock and consider their position.
the ASGI sold them a pup - and now are moaning for getting caught out

It's up to each profession/ workersto get their unions to represent them, I make no apology for gardai defending their pay, get someone to defend yours if you have a problem! Waterford crystal workers may have had siptu and that tells its own story!

dj jarvis

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Just like you!

Im no mere warrior - I am a GOD.

seriously - you have no idea of my activism or lack of , please dont try to assume , as you did with the other poster , i could be the guy out side the dail with a cardboard placard fighting for what i believe in.

dont assume i am what your limited thought can imagine.

HondaSami

Boombastic wrote: »

UK

£1200 -€1420 (unsociable allowances pay)

£4,338 - €5137 (London, to be paid at the discretion of the chief constable)
£3288 - €3893 (London Weighting)


£1,000 - €1184) outside London,to be paid at the discretion of the chief constable)

Police officer in London Total €32, 951 (€5137 of that paid at the discretion of the chief constable)

Outside London - €25,105 (1184 of that paid at the discretion of the chief constable)


Ireland (I've just added basic allowances but I'm sure there's more)
Rent €4,162.48
Boot 152
Uniform 256

On attestation - 31670
after 22 weeks -34362

The boot/uniform allowance is always talked about as if it was a fortune, are the Uk police better paid ?

tayto lover

frankie_fisher wrote: »

if the AGS union - representitive body was so concerned about cuts to garda pay , why did they keep quite a year ago when large numbers of guards ( with considerable time under their belt ) retired on exceptionally generous pensions ?

surely they knew the well would be lowered and less would be left for those who hung on or were about to join up

I presume it's because they represented those retiring Garda.
That seems to be their job after all.
It would be remarkable if they complained about it. I have yet to see a Union or Body complain that they were getting too much.
That's not the way representing your men works.

Pappa Charlie

dj jarvis wrote: »

Im no mere warrior - I am a GOD.

seriously - you have no idea of my activism or lack of , please dont try to assume , as you did with the other poster , i could be the guy out side the dail with a cardboard placard fighting for what i believe in.

dont assume i am what your limited thought can imagine.

I reckon most of it takes place on a bar stool!

tayto lover

dj jarvis wrote: »

Im no mere warrior - I am a GOD.

seriously - you have no idea of my activism or lack of , please dont try to assume , as you did with the other poster , i could be the guy out side the dail with a cardboard placard fighting for what i believe in.

dont assume i am what your limited thought can imagine.

Ah no.
I'm the real Batman.
I will fight crime and wrong-doing all over Boards.

frankie_fisher

tayto lover wrote: »

I presume it's because they represented those retiring Garda.
That seems to be their job after all.
It would be remarkable if they complained about it. I have yet to see a Union or Body complain that they were getting too much.
That's not the way representing your men works.

thats fine but a lobby group cannot whinge when they are called out on their hypocrosy , i would say the same about liam doran , crying about the injustice of lowering the starting pay for freshy recruited nurses when a year ago he signed off on fabolous pensions for nurses with a few decades under their belt

cake and eat it , im afraid not

dj jarvis

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

It's up to each profession/ workersto get their unions to represent them, I make no apology for gardai defending their pay, get someone to defend yours if you have a problem! Waterford crystal workers may have had siptu and that tells its own story!

dear boy - have you read the thread ?
where i have shown support for the garda pay claim ?
i agree with their struggle , but pointing out the restraints they are held under by the garda act and the Constitution.

as for me , i have no union , i am self employed , no rights , no safety net , no pension , doing the MOST dangerous thing a Irish citizen does on a daly basis , drive 200+ miles a day

i have not seen one thread or seen one march in solidarity for my section of the workforce - if there is a worse treated member of the Irish workforce i have yet to see it.

they were being defended , as has been pointed out a million times , they walked out - even they admit it , and want to go back in, what don't you get about that?

tayto lover

frankie_fisher wrote: »

thats fine but a lobby group cannot whinge when they are called out on their hypocrosy , i would say the same about liam doran , crying about the injustice of lowering the starting pay for freshy recruited nurses when a year ago he signed off on fabolous pensions for nurses with a few decades under their belt

cake and eat it , im afraid not

Liam Doran was 100% right to stand up for the pay and conditions of nurses.
That's what he gets paid for.

Pappa Charlie

dj jarvis wrote: »

dear boy - have you read the thread ?
where i have shown support for the garda pay claim ?
i agree with their struggle , but pointing out the restraints they are held under by the garda act and the Constitution.

as for me , i have no union , i am self employed , no rights , no safety net , no pension , doing the MOST dangerous thing a Irish citizen does on a daly basis , drive 200+ miles a day

i have not seen one thread or seen one march in solidarity for my section of the workforce - if there is a worse treated member of the Irish workforce i have yet to see it.

they were being defended , as has been pointed out a million times , they walked out - even they admit it , and want to go back in, what don't you get about that?

In other words, no one can protest until we all protest for you!

frankie_fisher

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

I reckon most of it takes place on a bar stool!

if you were half as good at putting forward well thought out points as you are at trotting out baseless presumptions , you,d be harvard debating champion three years running

tayto lover

frankie_fisher wrote: »

if you were half as good at putting forward well thought out points as you are at trotting out baseless presumptions , you,d be harvard debating champion three years running

I'm going to resist the urge ...

HondaSami

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

In other words, no one can protest until we all protest for you!

That made me lol

Sorry dj.

frankie_fisher

tayto lover wrote: »

Liam Doran was 100% right to stand up for the pay and conditions of nurses.
That's what he gets paid for.

your willfull stupidity knows no bounds

he gladly sacraficed new recruits conditions in order to provide extra padding for those sisters he sent off smiling into the sun

he,s a hypocrite to be accusing the goverment of disrespecting rookie nurses , he,s no idiot , he knows their are finite resources

dj jarvis

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

In other words, no one can protest until we all protest for you!

no , not at all , but you cant demand total solidity from the public if you are only seen to react when it YOUR pay and conditions that are threatened . and good pay and conditions at that


the public support the garda in general, but they are not blind or stupid,
i have never met a poor garda - met plenty of poor other people.

speaks volumes to me

frankie_fisher

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

In other words, no one can protest until we all protest for you!

oh be quiet , you gormless idiot

Pappa Charlie

frankie_fisher wrote: »

if you were half as good at putting forward well thought out points as you are at trotting out baseless presumptions , you,d be harvard debating champion three years running

How did you know I went to Harvard???