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Landlord House Raid

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    #92
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    There is a universe of a difference to a trespasser and a LL entering a property illegally. Lots of ifs, ands, buts amount to nothing.

    Not when he's tragically maimed or killed for making the mistake of entering someones dwelling and their bedroom unannounced


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    #93
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Yes there is a legal difference, there are seperate laws about it for that very reason. It is not trespassing plain and simple. Entering the property to give out to tenants would not be seen as trespassing but it is against the legislation of renting a property. Seperate laws not the same. Go look it up

    So you're admitting he was there just to give out to them, not out of fear that there was an ongoing emergency and nobody was there to rectify it, as you were suggesting earlier :rolleyes:
    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Claims that it is sexual assault is insulting to be people who have been sexually assualted.

    But what about sexual harassment? You've skimmed over that. He pulled away cover off two people who could be reasonably assumed to be in a state of undress. You think that's not illegal?


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    #94
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,950 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Mr.Wemmick wrote: »
    Didn't know there was a law which stated you need to get LLs permission to have x number of people over whilst paying the full amount of rent each month.

    I'm pretty sure that my lease limits the number of overnight visitors I can have at a time or how long they can stay for.

    In the country where I come from a rental house with more than 9 occupants has to meet far higher fire-safety requirements. I'd guess there is a similar magic number here, don't know wha tit is.


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    #95
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Bambi wrote: »
    Not when he's tragically maimed or killed for making the mistake of entering someones dwelling and their bedroom unannounced
    Didn't happen and would love to see what would happen if that would happen. All the BS from people about having the right to beat a LL like a trepasser would be eliminated.
    miss no stars wrote: »
    So you're admitting he was there just to give out to them, not out of fear that there was an ongoing emergency and nobody was there to rectify it, as you were suggesting earlier :rolleyes:

    Want to point out where I made this claim on this tread? If you are referring to a different thread it was totally different situation.
    miss no stars wrote: »
    But what about sexual harassment? You've skimmed over that. He pulled away cover off two people who could be reasonably assumed to be in a state of undress. You think that's not illegal?
    Didn't skim over that plain and simply riddiculous attempts to over blow a stupid LLs actions. Again insulting to people who are actually sexually harrassed. Stupid thing done by the LL doesn't suddenly make it sexual assult, sexual harrassment, rape, harrassment etc... He did pull the covers off people to get them out of bed, stupid and reckless but not sexual nor violent.


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    #96
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Didn't happen and would love to see what would happen if that would happen. All the BS from people about having the right to beat a LL like a trepasser would be eliminated.

    You think most people see their landlord often enough to make that call when he shows up in their bedroom unannounced while their in bed?

    I can tell you anyone who enters my dwelling without permission and appears beside my bed has two options, beat a hasty retreat or be treated as a threat to my life.


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    #97
    whomitconcerns
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Didn't skim over that plain and simply riddiculous attempts to over blow a stupid LLs actions. Again insulting to people who are actually sexually harrassed. Stupid thing done by the LL doesn't suddenly make it sexual assult, sexual harrassment, rape, harrassment etc... He did pull the covers off people to get them out of bed, stupid and reckless but not sexual nor violent.
    Im still not getting how you see it that way..sorry..

    ok...so lets look at this way...you rent a house with your family..you go out one morning leaving your young daughter alone in bed..landlord bursts in for whatever reason and pulls blankets off her in bed?? This is not an assault????????? You would not call the police?


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    #98
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Didn't skim over that plain and simply riddiculous attempts to over blow a stupid LLs actions. Again insulting to people who are actually sexually harrassed. Stupid thing done by the LL doesn't suddenly make it sexual assult, sexual harrassment, rape, harrassment etc... He did pull the covers off people to get them out of bed, stupid and reckless but not sexual nor violent.

    I'm going to make this perfectly clear for you. When a couple are in bed together, especially a young couple who do not live together, it is reasonable to assume that they will not be fully clothed. Ripping off the bedclothes forceably and against their wishes exposes them to a stranger. That IS a form of sexual harassment. It doesn't matter a fiddlers whether he was doing that to get them out of bed (and excuse me, what right has he to do that?! It's the girl's home Ray, if she wants to stay in bed all day the LL has no say in that!) or whatever else, the fact remains that he exposed the two of them to him WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.


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    #99
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    The LL was wrong but nothing more than that and there is no way the guards will get involved.

    I would let the Gardai decide if they want to get involved. A simple phone call/visit to a Garda station is all it will take to find out. Just because they didnt take an interest in your case doesnt mean they wont take an interest in this one.


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    #100
    reprazant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭reprazant


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that my lease limits the number of overnight visitors I can have at a time or how long they can stay for.

    In the country where I come from a rental house with more than 9 occupants has to meet far higher fire-safety requirements. I'd guess there is a similar magic number here, don't know wha tit is.

    You have a lease that states how many and for how long you can have people over your in place?

    I have never heard of this except in on campus flats in colleges. It seems bizarre that you would agree to such a restrictive lease.


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    #101
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that my lease limits the number of overnight visitors I can have at a time or how long they can stay for.

    In the country where I come from a rental house with more than 9 occupants has to meet far higher fire-safety requirements. I'd guess there is a similar magic number here, don't know wha tit is.

    Im pretty sure most leases do not have such a clause, and Im also pretty sure that the vast majority of people would not sign a lease with such a clause. When a landlord signs a lease they are agreeing to allow you the use of their property as your home; they have absolutely no right to start trying to put restrictions like that on a tenant (or, more accurately, a tenant has every right to tell them where to go with themselves if they try).


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    #102
    mrs vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mrs vimes


    The landlord in this case has behaved in an appalling manner - I can't believe he actually pulled off the bedclothes!!

    I'm not sure the PRTB has any jurisdiction though according to this decision

    I'm assuming that the 6 students have separate licenses as opposed to all signing the one lease and renting the whole house as a unit, therefore they each have exclusive use of their bedrooms but not exclusive use of the common areas - it means the landlord can come and go as he pleases but of course not into the bedrooms.


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    #103
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    mrs vimes wrote: »
    The landlord in this case has behaved in an appalling manner - I can't believe he actually pulled off the bedclothes!!

    I'm not sure the PRTB has any jurisdiction though according to this decision

    I'm assuming that the 6 students have separate licenses as opposed to all signing the one lease and renting the whole house as a unit, therefore they each have exclusive use of their bedrooms but not exclusive use of the common areas - it means the landlord can come and go as he pleases but of course not into the bedrooms.

    The fact that the OP mentioned €3000 as the rental amount suggests that they are renting the property in its entirety rather than each renting a room. Thats the assumption that I made anyway.


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    #104
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    miss no stars wrote: »
    I'm going to make this perfectly clear for you. When a couple are in bed together, especially a young couple who do not live together, it is reasonable to assume that they will not be fully clothed. Ripping off the bedclothes forceably and against their wishes exposes them to a stranger. That IS a form of sexual harassment. It doesn't matter a fiddlers whether he was doing that to get them out of bed (and excuse me, what right has he to do that?! It's the girl's home Ray, if she wants to stay in bed all day the LL has no say in that!) or whatever else, the fact remains that he exposed the two of them to him WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.
    It is not sexual harrasement as you obviously don't know the meaning of the word "harrassment".
    The OP was not naked or she would have stated it. You are making it up. According to the OP the LL was shouting about the house and did not creep into the room and take off the covers either.

    I am not defending the LL he was plain and simply wrong.

    He is not guilty of anything more than he did adding to it and claiming it an array of thing is just riddiculious. It is outrage about what he did and overblowing his acts. Intent is a big deal in law and people are claiming he did this to see her naked by adding to it and claiming is was something sexual. Do you really think his intent was to see her naked? Would he deserve to be on a sex offenders register?

    Do you think he knew the people in that room were male or female, do you know his sexual prefernce? It does matter why he was doing it in law.

    Do you think a judge or jury would ignore all details and say well he obviously did this for a sexual thrill. No way a sane adult would see this as sexual assult in court and it could never be seen as harrassment because it happened once.


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    #105
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    It is not sexual harrasement as you obviously don't know the meaning of the word "harrassment".

    Sexual harassment is separate and distinct from harassment. Doesn't require any of the continuity of behaviour as harassment. One event counts.
    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    The OP was not naked or she would have stated it. You are making it up. According to the OP the LL was shouting about the house and did not creep into the room and take off the covers either.

    So it's better that he did it with aggression?

    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    I am not defending the LL he was plain and simply wrong.

    You're de-facto condoning his actions by advising against involving the gardai.
    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    He is not guilty of anything more than he did adding to it and claiming it an array of thing is just riddiculious. It is outrage about what he did and overblowing his acts. Intent is a big deal in law and people are claiming he did this to see her naked by adding to it and claiming is was something sexual. Do you really think his intent was to see her naked? Would he deserve to be on a sex offenders register?

    Do you think he knew the people in that room were male or female, do you know his sexual prefernce? It does matter why he was doing it in law.

    Do you think a judge or jury would ignore all details and say well he obviously did this for a sexual thrill. No way a sane adult would see this as sexual assult in court and it could never be seen as harrassment because it happened once.

    Seems an awful lot like he INTENDED to strike fear through them, otherwise why the shouting, roaring and exposing people from under bedclothes?


    I don't get what your problem is. The guy and his actions are disgusting, yet he shouldn't be reported?? Hope to feck I never rent from you.

    And regarding the last line of your post, harassment and sexual harassment are separate.


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    #106
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    miss no stars wrote: »
    You're de-facto condoning his actions by advising against involving the gardai.
    By all means report him nothing will happen. You are increddibly nieve to think you have this right with regard to law. I have clearly stated the reason not to bring it to the guards is becasue they won't do anything. I have not condoned his actions in anyway I just do not accept that the the OP suggested any sexual nature to what he did. Go and highlight where there was a sexual nature to it. The OP didn't suggest it and they were there. Intimidation with no sexual nature to it is not sexual harrassment. Do you think the LL should be on the sex offenders register????

    You have ignored lots of my comments to drone on about what you think it is. No comments on my experience of guards in a much more dangerous situation.


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    #107
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    The girl was lying in bed when he ripped the bed clothes off; had she been naked at the time he could most likely already have been arrested and locked up. I dont think anyone is suggesting what he did was of a sexual nature (in that he was doing to get some kind of a thrill), but that doesnt change the fact that he committed an act of gross violation against this girl and she has every right to get the Gardai involved. Whether they will see it as something that they can or will persue is another matter, but she has every right to make her report and see what comes of it.

    Just because you didnt get any satisfaction from them does not mean that nobody should ever make a complaint to the Gardai again. Its not even as if you are comparing like for like with the situation that you described.


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    #108
    whomitconcerns
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    its assault plain and simple and the relevant Irish law has been shown and explained earlier


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    #109
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    djimi wrote: »
    The girl was lying in bed when he ripped the bed clothes off; had she been naked at the time he could most likely already have been arrested and locked up. I dont think anyone is suggesting what he did was of a sexual nature (in that he was doing to get some kind of a thrill), but that doesnt change the fact that he committed an act of gross violation against this girl and she has every right to get the Gardai involved. Whether they will see it as something that they can or will persue is another matter, but she has every right to make her report and see what comes of it.

    Just because you didnt get any satisfaction from them does not mean that nobody should ever make a complaint to the Gardai again. Its not even as if you are comparing like for like with the situation that you described.
    Based on what experience do you think he would be locked up now?

    People have callled it sexual assault and sexual harrassment so yes people are saying it had a sexual nature. That has been my point that it wasn't any of these and to say so is riddiculious. So you are agreeing with me that it was not sexual so most of the crimes people are claiming are not possible?

    The relevance of my experience is the guards backed away saying it was a civil matter that is the relevance. That was still after a guy left in an ambulance. He fell down the stairs while I was chasing him out of my flat.

    Every right to report it but lets be realistic about what will happen is all I am saying. Most of the complaints people are making are just obsurd.

    Claiming that it has been proven as assult here is hysterical. By the definition and application here anybody who shouts at another person can be done for assult if the other party feel intimidated. Everybody knows better than that. The existense of a law doesn't mean it can be applied exactly by the wording in the real world everytime. It like saying everytime you speed in a car you will get 2 penality points and fine.


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    #110
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Based on what experience do you think he would be locked up now?

    You think if a bloke barges into a girls bedroom and exposes her there isnt a very good chance he would end up in a world of trouble if the Gardai got involved?
    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Every right to report it but lets be realistic about what will happen is all I am saying. Most of the complaints people are making are just obsurd.

    My point is report it to the Gardai and let them decide if they want to persue and it and on what grounds. I agree that some people may have gone over the top in this thread, but their sentiment is spot on; the OP has every right to report this guy to the Gardai and look to have him charged. Im sure the Gardai will decide what to charge him with if they feel they have sufficient grounds; the OP does not need to determine that.

    You being "realistic" is not helping. Let the OP go to the Gardai and let them tell her where she stands. If they cant/wont help then so be it, but at least she will know where she stands.


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    #111
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,394 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    djimi wrote: »
    You think if a bloke barges into a girls bedroom and exposes her there isnt a very good chance he would end up in a world of trouble if the Gardai got involved?

    .
    If a LL barges into a tenants room calling for them to get out of bed and pulls the sheet off her and accidentally exposes her the guards will not do anything.
    It is always about the context and changing it from a LL to "bloke" and tenant to "girl" makes a massive difference that people can't understand.
    Being unrealitsc about what happened and making it sound worse than it is not helpful in anyway. Listening to outrage from people with no experince is extremely unhelpful and unrealistic.

    I have always said go ahead and report it but don't expect anything and certainly not the fantasies people are putting about who obviosuly have never haa to deal with anything remotely similar.


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    #112
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,237 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    If a LL barges into a tenants room calling for them to get out of bed and pulls the sheet off her and accidentally exposes her the guards will not do anything.
    It is always about the context and changing it from a LL to "bloke" and tenant to "girl" makes a massive difference that people can't understand.
    Being unrealitsc about what happened and making it sound worse than it is not helpful in anyway. Listening to outrage from people with no experince is extremely unhelpful and unrealistic.

    The context in this is everything. Had the landlord been a woman and the OP a guy then Id agree it probably wouldnt come to anything. But the fact that the landlord was a bloke and the OP a female college student means that were she to make a complaint against the landlord for what he did it would be taken seriously. I really dont know why you think it wouldnt.


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    #113
    whomitconcerns
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    and heres where I leave the discussion....i hear a pub calling.....


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    #114
    smirker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭smirker


    djimi wrote: »
    The context in this is everything. Had the landlord been a woman and the OP a guy then Id agree it probably wouldnt come to anything. But the fact that the landlord was a bloke and the OP a female college student means that were she to make a complaint against the landlord for what he did it would be taken seriously. I really dont know why you think it wouldnt.

    The guards had previously been called to the house due to the activities of the o/p. I doubt if they would have much sympathy. She behaved disgracefully and is now trying to turn it on her landlord. Her parents are paying a lot of money for her to be in college and she rewards them by getting the guards called to her accommodation with followed up by news of her debauchery.


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    #115
    Joe Hart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Joe Hart


    smirker wrote: »
    The guards had previously been called to the house due to the activities of the o/p. I doubt if they would have much sympathy. She behaved disgracefully and is now trying to turn it on her landlord. Her parents are paying a lot of money for her to be in college and she rewards them by getting the guards called to her accommodation with followed up by news of her debauchery.

    That is not how they work. Would they ignore a rape if it occurred at the same house because they were called there before?


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    #116
    smirker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 37 ✭smirker


    Joe Hart wrote: »
    That is not how they work. Would they ignore a rape if it occurred at the same house because they were called there before?

    There wasn't a rape. There is a tenuous alleged assault. They would investigate a rape but i doubt it would get to a file going to the DPP unless there was very clear evidence.


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    #117
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    smirker wrote: »
    The guards had previously been called to the house due to the activities of the o/p. I doubt if they would have much sympathy. She behaved disgracefully and is now trying to turn it on her landlord. Her parents are paying a lot of money for her to be in college and she rewards them by getting the guards called to her accommodation with followed up by news of her debauchery.

    I'd read the OP properly if I were you. One party and it's called debauchery???? :rolleyes:

    You really need to get a life...


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    #118
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Years ago I was asleep in my rented house on a Sunday morning
    Bell rings but I ignore it
    Bell rings again
    Mrs tigger gets up looks out the window and sees the top of the landlords head
    Goes back to bed
    Bell rings
    Ignore it
    Then there is the sound of keys in the front door
    So I ran to the window and shout down at him
    What do you think you are doing

    Landlord goes: I didn't think there was anyo e here
    Me: we you can't just come into my home
    Landlord : it's my house not yours

    Poxy idiots that don't have a clue that's all I have to say on the matter


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    #119
    WhatNowForUs?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭WhatNowForUs?


    Zamboni wrote: »
    A landlord is entitled to enter their property in an emergency situation.

    Would people here not consider having 45 non-residents being ejected from your property by the Gardai who have been called by members of the public as an emergency?
    Most certainly not


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    #120
    Joe Hart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 358 ✭✭Joe Hart


    45 non-residents being ejected from your property by the Gardai

    The gardai did not eject anybody as they would have no right to.


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    #121
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,379 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    TBH lads the only one the Gardai would eject would be the landlord as he is the only one that has no right to be in the house.

    I agree that the Guards are unlikely yo do much at this stage although there may be no harm filing a complaint anyway. If the OP wants to do something about it the only option I can see is through a complaint with the PRTB.
    OP threshold will be able to give you some good advice on this


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