Electronic music composition

silenoz

Hi,

I want to learn how to compose electronic music and I haven't a clue where to start. Can anyone give me information on what software people use, books or courses that are available. I'm into everything from ambient to gabba but I don't have any knowledge of digital composition.

Neurojazz

Youtube will help greatly - but knowing what to search for will take some time

I'd start by listening to music you like and hearing when changes happen and focus on the parts of the music that drop out (like if the bass drum or bass line start and stop)

Spend a bit of time searching for composition guides on youtube and then apply something you've learned and go from there.

There are many, many guides for just about everything on youtube - then you can decide on a specialist SEA online course, pointblank or one of the many others on offer.

It's a long hard trip and very rewarding - good luck!

silenoz

Thanks for the advice. I've been watching a few videos on using Ableton Live and downloaded a trial version. There's an 8 week evening course (total 20 hours) on Ableton in GTI in Galway that I'm thinking of doing, which I think is for anyone starting out using the software. Do you think I would I be better off trying to learn the basics from videos or is it worth doing a course first?

seannash

silenoz wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. I've been watching a few videos on using Ableton Live and downloaded a trial version. There's an 8 week evening course (total 20 hours) on Ableton in GTI in Galway that I'm thinking of doing, which I think is for anyone starting out using the software. Do you think I would I be better off trying to learn the basics from videos or is it worth doing a course first?

Learn the basics yourself.
Its just very daunting when you start out.
Take it one step at a time,for example do you know how to create a kick hat and snare pattern?(like you hear at the begining of most dance tracks).
If not start with that.

what style are you interested in,for now be as specific as you can be so it'll be easier to give you basics

silenoz

I'm into a lot of ambient electronic and retro-synth stuff. I'd like to make something with basic beats and synth. Really I'd be happy to just play around with some software and see what I can do.

Neurojazz

silenoz wrote: »

I'm into a lot of ambient electronic and retro-synth stuff. I'd like to make something with basic beats and synth. Really I'd be happy to just play around with some software and see what I can do.

If you want to start with free software then check out reaper (the software to sequence and mix your music) and a site called dontcrack.com to get the instruments and effects for free.

There's many to pick from, but just go for it and experiment and hit youtube when you hit a brick wall with something.

If you want something 'light' and simple to use on something like a laptop - check out 'Reason' - That's an all in one package that has everything you need play around and even release music from - It's used in schools quite a lot also and easy to get to grips with.

Any software more advanced than that needs big pile of cash, infinite free time and ninja like computer house keeping skills!

paulelectronica

For starting off , I`d recommend reaper also and you should check out http://www.kvraudio.com/ . There are a tonne of free vsts on there , from effects to synths to drum machines .

Rob Humanoid

I think Reaper is a good choice... Because it's really cheap and a good DAW all round. Logic is good too and pretty cheap also. Although, I'm now using Studio one theses days. TBH they all pretty much do the same thing and it's down to personal preference. They all can yield great results in the hands of a decent producer.

Also, you shouldn't spend too much money on it until you're sure you really like it. 'Cause once you go down the rabbit hole....

Youtube is a great resource, as NJ has already suggested. Do a search for 'music master classes' on YT, there's some golden info from top professional artists.

That said, I'd highly recommend the 'DMP music production videos'. They are not free but the info is quality. In all honesty It's well worth splashing out on the fundamentals at least, as it will save an awful lot of faffing on the web.

paulo6891

I found that DMP stuff highly boring, I think there are better tutorials on youtube. Just look up some of the future music tutorials for a start (in my opinion)

Rob Humanoid

I dunno'... I've not seen any tutorials that go into that level of depth on dance music on Y.T. Not to mention the time it takes to filter out the crap once you start searching (based on my own experience).

Sure, the Future Music tutes (ie - the master classes I mentioned) are very good. But generally quite short... So there's only so much info that they can cram into a 30 minute tutorial (I know there's longer ones as well).

While the DMP stuff is quite dry, Snowman goes into lots of details which wold give someone a very good insight into the basics. Which some of the master classes assume you already have...

Ar OP the groove3 tutorials are quite good too and they often do cheap deals as well.

paulo6891

In my opinion, the guy knows synthesis and the science behind it all, but he doesn't know how to make a great tune. I think that the song in the trance course in particular was appalling. I don't know what kind of music that the OP is into, personally I am in to trance music. I found the Tyas in the studio interesting. 7skies also has a huge amount of videos on youtube, things like Mike Koglin in the studio was insightful too. I don't know much about other types of electronic music though so can't comment on the availability of quality tutorials.

Rob Humanoid

That's the key tho' isn't it? He knows the Synthesis & the science behind it all, and he knows it very well. It's somewhat irrelevant that you don't like his tunes as it's all down to personal taste anyway. Plus there are plenty of bods out there who'll sing his praises...

My point is simply this, that if you get a good handle on the fundamentals then the art will follow that much easier.

And just a quick point on music forums. While they are a great resource (like youtube) you really have to be careful about digesting the information, because you'll soon start reading posts made by 'experts' with very different opinions, and who will often offer conflicting information.

As OP has already stated he's not got a clue where to start... Personally I think DMP (or Groove 3 or Macpro Video) is a good place to start.

paulo6891

I don't agree, I would rather learn about production from someone who actually knew how to produce good tracks rather than someone who can't - even if they knew how to use their DAW.

Rob Humanoid

paulo6891 wrote: »

I don't agree, I would rather learn about production from someone who actually knew how to produce good tracks rather than someone who can't - even if they knew how to use their DAW.

Well, there's a lot of people who say he can...Which makes your point somewhat moot. You don't have to like the chaps music to get some knowledge. I don't like Trance for example, but his fundamental DVDs go into lots of detail about general EDM production that is very valuable.

Everyone on the net is an 'expert'.:D The best advice I'd give to OP is check out a few of his clips on youtube. Then that way you can make an informed decision.

https://www.youtube.com/user/dancemusictutorials?feature=watch

And best of luck on your journey!

paulo6891

Rob, if you ask a lot of people what the best synth available is, what do they say?

...


they say whatever synth they have bought themselves. it is the same with the tutorials - they have paid for them so they think they are great. If they were free then we would get a much more balanced opinion on what the DMP tutorials are really like. I have bought a couple of them, most recently the access virus one. I haven't even managed to get half way through it, that's how riveting and helpful I find it.

And I don't really like your snide comments which are being directed my way about the experts on the net - just because I am clearly not at your level of expertise. however I think that I am able to post one or two comments at the very least without the derision!





OP: I would suggest FL 11 or Logic, depending on what computer you are using. Start with demos. For a synth, try a demo of sylenth. For loops and samples, try Tom Penton, Vengeance or Myloops. Try learning the DAW, finding out how to import loops etc (there will be loads of youtube tutorials available). Templates can be very good if you want to see how a professional track is made. Myloops have some very good templates. Freshly Squeezed samples is also your friend if you get to the stage where you are willing to part with cash. There are some courses which one can do - point blank, DMP etc etc, I didn't find any to be that great - they show you how to create a trance song for example - but if that song isn't of a signable quality, I lose interest. Check out sonic academy, they have some very nice tutorials and are not expensive at all. 7skies is doing one with Pyramind which should be decent but a bit pricey (around 200 euro). It is focusing on sound design in Logic. Music production is an expensive and time consuming hobby!

Rob Humanoid

paulo6891 wrote: »

And I don't really like your snide comments which are being directed my way about the experts on the net - just because I am clearly not at your level of expertise. however I think that I am able to post one or two comments at the very least without the derision!

Kettle black much?? Well, I didn't like the tone of yours either mate... And I was only responding because you were getting snippy about my original posts in the first place. Considering all I was saying (imo) that his DVDs had something to offer a beginner irregardless of style. But you kept coming back with non sequitur arguments for some bizarre reason.

I always find it strange when people suddenly get 'the hump' with you because you make a snarky comment in retaliation to their previously snarky post. Anyway, I think it's better we leave this here, as I don't really want to turn this into a childish pissing contest.

So Pualo, top of the morning to ya'! and best of luck... I won't be responding to anything you've lined up. I think I've said everything I need to on this silly little matter.

However at OP, I would like to say one thing about Sonic Academy. I've seen quite a few of their vids, and they are at best 'ok'. I'd say check out Groove3 which are cheaper, and generally considered better by many. Personally, I got a hell of a lot more from DMP then I ever did with the Sonic Academy material. Plus, their tutes aren't that cheap considering their runtime. Unlike G3 or especially DMP which run a lot longer. Thus, offering you more bang for the buck so to speak.

That said, don't take my word for it... Have a gander on a few sites like KVR, Gearslutz or DOA, and see what they say about Sonic Academy or the best vids to get yer' mitts on.

Mac Pro Video might be worth a go too. But they have 'NED' player which is basically their own software for playing the vids on your computer. Which I found to be a nightmare to get started with, when I was on a PC. Now that I'm on a Mac I'm sure it would be a lot easier.

paulo6891

You use a lot of sweeping statements in your posts, 'considered better by many', 'there are plenty of bods out there who'll sing his praises', doesn't really mean that much but comes across pretty well.

All I said was that I found the DMP videos boring, how that consisted of a negative tone towards your post confuses me. I did't see your need to turn it into an argument. I also noted that it was just a personal opinion.

With Sonic Academy you are being taught by one of the guys behind Agnelli & Nelson, so at least you know that you are in good hands. Ditto with the 7skies tutorials. I think OP that you should ask Rob for a listen to one of his own productions to see how beneficial DMP has been for him - then we can really see who the 'experts' (other than Mr Laws) are around here :rolleyes:

Rob Humanoid

paulo6891 wrote: »

You use a lot of sweeping statements in your posts, 'considered better by many', 'there are plenty of bods out there who'll sing his praises', doesn't really mean that much but comes across pretty well.

Ah, the pissing contest continues because of a bruised ego…:rolleyes:

Lets see if I can make it a little clearer for you my good friend.

A) You said it was boring? And the rest if you please…Just so you won't find it so 'confusing'. Also, you implied that he couldn't right a trance track, and he only knew the DAW and science behind music. And that you wouldn't want to be trained by someone 'like' that. Please tell all the facts… That sounds like an Ad Hominem insult to me.

I don't care you found it boring, that's completely irrelevant - It's what you implied there after. And also please tell the OP about your repertoire in the music field compared to Snowman. Let us hear your mighty Trance tracks… More dick measuring *yawns*.

Ah, you now want measuring contest about my music? Such a very predictable response…:pac: You forget that I don't claim to be an expert and never did. But I'm sure you'll all be able to show us how successful you are in the professional field of music. I'm all ears… I simply implied (and stop me if I'm getting too technical for you) that the Internet is full of 'experts' (refer to my earlier post). And simply said to the OP 'don't believe everything people say'. I also, quantified my statement by saying don't even believe anything I've said. Do some research and judge for yourself?

C) It's a long time since I've seen any Sonic Academy stuff. The material I saw was very poor (the D&B tute is atrocious). Have a look on DOA what they said and their stuff in general).

However, I'm more that willing to give any new material a chance unlike yourself. I've pretty much seen all the DMP music tutorials so I feel that I'm in a position to talk about them. How many have you seen again?

Again, a point I feel that really needs to hammered home here, as you've completely disregarded it a few times. Which leads me to believe you are just being willfully ignorant by trying to twist my words to try to strengthen your own position.

So lets see if I can summarize my points. :rolleyes:

1) DMP and Groove 3 tutes are worth a look for the basics (and beyond IMO). If you find them boring or too scientific that's completely irrelevant as other people have found them beneficial.

2) Don't believe everything that is told to you on a music forum (that includes my own opinion too). As it's full of 'experts' who offer conflicting opinions… This implies everyone and not just poor 'auld Paulo who's taken it awfully personal.

3) Youtube & the Net are great resources, but contain a lot of irrelevant fluff and that can lead you on some, 'not so useful tangents'.

4) Getting good tutes from the beginning will save you a lot of time in the long run (just speaking form my own experience).

5) In seeking correct information on good music DVDs simply do a search on some of the main music forums, and you'll soon see what people say. This is not a 'sweeping statement' I'm offering the OP a chance to make an informed decision via other sources of info'.

Neurojazz it might be a good time for a moderator smakedown on both of us.

Sorry OP, I just wanted to give you a heads up on a few of the short cuts that helped me on my journey (and still are)…

I think I've answered all of Paulo's s statements. I can't see a point to responding any further as it will lead to nothing. OP If you have any questions on anything I've said feel free to drop me a PM.

Neurojazz

Yes, please keep it civil - boards charter and all please.

Just give the OP ideas and some directions to work with - not judge others posts for their value as your opinion isn't objective - it's just from your personal experience and may not suit OP - Let them decide as they have a brain themselves to figure right from wrong and i'm sure we've all benefit at some time from making mistakes.

I had the learn all this stuff without the internet. No guides, nada. I kept my post at OP short as not to confuse them too much and give them a simple direction to get on with as the reality of what's to follow is huge - So my advice to the subsequent posters is to keep it impartial and useful to people who may stumble on this thread in future!

Rob Humanoid

Thanks NJ! Will do...

Rob Humanoid

OP and anyone else who's interested.

Tom Cosm also has some very good tutorials even tho' they are Ableton specific. But you can still apply many of his principals to you own DAW and music production (good value for money too!).

Have a gander:

http://www.cosm.co.nz/index.php?option=com_jusertube&view=fullpage&Itemid=172

hefferboi

I want to get into music production. I have ableton on the computer but haven't a clue where to start. Where can I get the best plugins, free or paid doesn't matter?

This is the style I'm interested in. Anyone know the best tutorials for it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApVTFYSJ34g

Thanks.

mordeith

hefferboi wrote: »

I want to get into music production. I have ableton on the computer but haven't a clue where to start. Where can I get the best plugins, free or paid doesn't matter?

This is the style I'm interested in. Anyone know the best tutorials for it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApVTFYSJ34g

Thanks.

You can get loads of free VSTs at www.kvraudio.com
Computer Music Magazine also give away VSTs with each issue and there's always a tutorial on some aspect of production.
My advice though is not to go too mad on plugins. Best to pick a core selection and get used to working with them. I recently removed lots of plugins I had downloaded but found I had too much choice when coming to picking a synth or effect when making a track.

Rob Humanoid

As op said, KVR is a great resource...

Have you got the Ableton Suite? If so, you've got plenty of decent stuff to use already. Operator is a very nice synth...

I bought this myself recently - it's the Spire Synth by reveal sound (to go along with my Access Virus TI). At the moment it's at an introductory price... It might be what you're looking for sound wise. Have a gander at the demos here: http://www.reveal-sound.com/

Tyrell Nexus 6 good free Synth (before you buy anything):
http://www.musicradar.com/computermusic/cm-top-10-soft-synths-the-results-are-in-246015

That said, I seriously wouldn't spend loads of dosh until you get you head around Ableton. There's a bazillion tutes on youtube. Or Tom Cosm's DVDs would be a great start.

Free Vst: http://www.musicradar.com/tuition/tech/the-27-best-free-vst-plug-ins-in-the-world-today-277953/1

Not Free: http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/the-30-best-vst-plug-in-effects-in-the-world-today-534241/1

Cheers,

Rob.

jiltloop

My advice would be to not get any plugins at all if you have the full version of Ableton. You're only learning after all and every plugin has the same basic functionality and theory behind it which is what you are looking to learn. Only look to branching out to other plugins when you know how subtractive synthesis, delay based effects (e.g delays, reverbs, chorus, flanger etc) and compression works.

All of it is there in Ableton already so switching between different plugins is pointless cos you won't learn anything until you understand how to use them. I say this from experience of wasting time.

Rob Humanoid

jiltloop wrote: »

All of it is there in Ableton already so switching between different plugins is pointless cos you won't learn anything until you understand how to use them. I say this from experience of wasting time.

Pretty much this... And also learn your way around a synth before buying anything.

Good vid for the basics of a synth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atvtBE6t48M