Should we have University / College experience?

Chemical Burn

In 4th year, we have work experience. This is largely manual based such as hairdressing or barbering or mechanics etc. I very much more academic than manual and if I did 4th year, work experience would have been a complete waste of time for me.

I feel that I took a lightly wrong choice in college. I took a science degree which was heavily based on Physics and Chemistry, having not taken Physics in School beforehand, I hadn't really a notion what it entailed. I loved the chemistry aspect of my degree.

Some people may like how classes are delivered in school, but may hate how the content is delivered in college. It is a completely different kettle of fish. Let me assure you of that.

In 4th year should be also have the option (apart from manual work experience) that 4th-year school-goers should be able to opt for University experience instead? ie, with the permission of a uni, sit in on some lectures to see how things are done?

The physics aspect and how it was delivered, severely affected my GPA in a negative way. Some students might also have a shock when they realize how different college really is.

shopaholic01

Chemical Burn wrote: »

In 4th year, we have work experience. This is largely manual based such as hairdressing or barbering or mechanics etc. I very much more academic than manual and if I did 4th year, work experience would have been a complete waste of time for me.

I feel that I took a lightly wrong choice in college. I took a science degree which was heavily based on Physics and Chemistry, having not taken Physics in School beforehand, I hadn't really a notion what it entailed. I loved the chemistry aspect of my degree.

Some people may like how classes are delivered in school, but may hate how the content is delivered in college. It is a completely different kettle of fish. Let me assure you of that.

In 4th year should be also have the option (apart from manual work experience) that 4th-year school-goers should be able to opt for University experience instead? ie, with the permission of a uni, sit in on some lectures to see how things are done?

The problem with that is that all the university students would have to be Garda vetted if minors attended lectures. It might also deter a lot of students from attending third level - I sure it would seem very daunting.

Chemical Burn

No (if no, say why)

shopaholic01 wrote: »

The problem with that is that all the university students would have to be Garda vetted if minors attended lectures. It might also deter a lot of students from attending third level - I sure it would seem very daunting.

How so, if an 18 year old wants to attend a repeat college or a 17 year old attends a college as an actual student all students are not garda vetted.

whiskeyman

The freshers week experience would be oversubscribed for a start

Praetorian Saighdiuir

Chemical Burn wrote: »

I very much more academic than manual

Maybe you should have done 4th year dude! :P

seven_eleven

I dont know about the rest of you, but my 4th year consisted of the teachers putting us in an unused room, and leaving us do whatever we wanted for the entire day, everyday.

I would literally come in and put my head down on the desk and sleep. IT was depressing, I hated every minute of it, we had absolutely NO classes. The teachers would never bother, and there was little or no activities for us. There was work experience, which I enjoyed somewhat but a lot of places really didnt want to take on these annoying little shíthead 15 year olds.

There should be work experience placements in a lot of uni/college courses. I think its absolutely necessary.

Miss Lockhart

shopaholic01 wrote: »

The problem with that is that all the university students would have to be Garda vetted if minors attended lectures. It might also deter a lot of students from attending third level - I sure it would seem very daunting.

All the workers in a student's placement don't have to be vetted currently. Work experience as it is would never happen if that was required. You can't expect everyone in the local Tesco to be vetted just because of a work experience student.

shopaholic01

Chemical Burn wrote: »

How so, if an 18 year old wants to attend a repeat college or a 17 year old attends a college as an actual student all students are not garda vetted.

Yes, but you are talking about sending students attending a second level school (where all staff have to be Garda vetted) to another institution. Garda vetting is needed when dealing with under 16's - a lot of fourth year students would surely be under 16? Think of the insurance issue as well - parental permission is needed to allow them leave their own school at lunchtime, what level of supervision would they receive in uni?

Meg meg

No (if no, say why)

Well I know some schools bring Ty/5th year students to some of the college open days which I think is a good day experience.During these open days there is always the opportunity for students to sit in on lectures . The open day experience is a good idea but as for long term sitting in on college days-could it not get a bit messy?? What if the Ty students get in the way of college students?? I also know that some of my daughters friends were able to get work experience in science labs in colleges and as a result they could accompany the lecturers to some lectures which was also good.

It would be good experience but I don't know how you could organise it??

shopaholic01

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

All the workers in a student's placement don't have to be vetted currently. Work experience as it is would never happen if that was required. You can't expect everyone in the local Tesco to be vetted just because of a work experience student.

Apply for a job in Tesco - pretty sure you'll be Garda vetted, they're unlikey to want to hire shoplifters.

1ZRed

No matter what there's going to be some aspect of your course that you're not going to like. The mistake I made was trying to find one that was absolutely perfect with the subjects offered and job opportunities/flexibility after, and nothing was perfect.

Even the course I've picked out now has a few things I don't like, like some business aspects later on in it, but overall it's best suited to me.

It'd be great to let students look in, but unfeasible as some lectures would be packed to capacity already and you could be put off your course just by sitting in on a few lectures, eventhough those few lectures mightn't represent the course as a whole and otherwise it could be very suited to you.

The Big Red Button

Chemical Burn wrote: »

I feel that I took a lightly wrong choice in college. I took a science degree which was heavily based on Physics and Chemistry, having not taken Physics in School beforehand, I hadn't really a notion what it entailed. I loved the chemistry aspect of my degree.

Some people may like how classes are delivered in school, but may hate how the content is delivered in college. It is a completely different kettle of fish. Let me assure you of that.

Surely it depends mostly on what the particular teacher/lecturer is like?

(I did both higher level Physics and higher level Chemistry for Leaving Cert, started a course which involved both, ended up switching to a different career path. While there's a fair jump between Leaving Cert and college for both subjects, it's still basically the same material and concepts; however naturally some tutors are better than others at teaching the subject.

Miss Lockhart

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Apply for a job in Tesco - pretty sure you'll be Garda vetted, they're unlikey to want to hire shoplifters.

I was never vetted when I worked in Dunnes, Penneys or Supervalu or Superquinn. Nor any other worplace except a school. I'm sure some places do but I know it is not a requirement for TY work experience placement.

shopaholic01

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I was never vetted when I worked in Dunnes, Penneys or Supervalu or Superquinn. Nor any other worplace except a school. I'm sure some places do but I know it is not a requirement for TY work experience placement.

My cousin was, we must be a very dubious family :pac:. What imdemnity forms are filled out prior to the student commencing work experience? Are they ever left unsupervised?

Mardy Bum

Really then you want to change the entire concept of transition year. Transition year is based on the concept of moving from adolescence to early adulthood.

The main focuses are on maturity, independent learning and getting ready for the world of work. Now your concept could come under the independent learning heading however you are still a long way from college lectures at the tender age of 15 or 16. It can and should happen in the school. There is an organisation in Dublin, Bridge 21, which do something similar for TY students.

BigGrayKettle

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Yes, but you are talking about sending students attending a second level school (where all staff have to be Garda vetted) to another institution. Garda vetting is needed when dealing with under 16's - a lot of fourth year students would surely be under 16? Think of the insurance issue as well - parental permission is needed to allow them leave their own school at lunchtime, what level of supervision would they receive in uni?

The students wouldn't have to be Garda vetted. Only the university staff would require that as they are the ones bearing the position of authority and responsibility. Under that rationale, a university would require Garda vetting for every member of the student and academic body when students are attending university open days or events.

steddyeddy

Dont tell me you need garda vetting for college?

Scortho

Most courses in TCD offer this anyway. Its up to the student to arrange it and is done on top of work experience.
I understand where the OP is coming from and the physics week I had in ty told me that I didnt want to do physics ever again....

shopaholic01

BigGrayKettle wrote: »

The students wouldn't have to be Garda vetted. Only the university staff would require that as they are the ones bearing the position of authority and responsibility. Under that rationale, a university would require Garda vetting for every member of the student and academic body when students are attending university open days or events.

Students attending open days would not be mixing with adult students to the same extent that they would if they were attending lectures. Would they be allowed have lunch etc. with adults while attending, or would they be accompanied by a teacher?

Boombastic

The real test of learning is putting theory in to practice

shopaholic01

steddyeddy wrote: »

Dont tell me you need garda vetting for college?

Anyone working with under 16's needs to be Garda vetted.

steddyeddy

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Anyone working with under 16's needs to be Garda vetted.

Well then it depends on where the student wants to do it. A lot of phd students like myself have worked in labs where garda vetting was required. Some may have it already. Either way I think it's a fantastic idea!

jam_mac_jam

No, I don't think 14 year olds should be in college. I wouldn't be too happy as a student with kids in the class. Too much debauchery for 14 year olds.

ImDave

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Students attending open days would not be mixing with adult students to the same extent that they would if they were attending lectures. Would they be allowed have lunch etc. with adults while attending, or would they be accompanied by a teacher?

When I was studying for my undergrad only a few years ago I took groups of transition year students on tours of the university. No need for Garda vetting of any kind.

shopaholic01

ImDave wrote: »

When I was studying for my undergrad only a few years ago I took groups of transition year students on tours of the university. No need for Garda vetting of any kind.

Makes you wonder why they bother vetting staff then. I'm not suggesting that you posed a risk, but it is a double standard.

DaveDaRave

With things like coursera and edx anyonecan take a legit university course online to see if they like it or not. its great

playedalive

No (if no, say why)

If anything, I wish I did a pre-university year before deciding to go to college. While I mostly like my undergrad (Languages and Literature), I have found it really difficult to meet the demands of college. I find Academic writing quite difficult, and it's something I never got a handle on until I got to college. Even now in final year, I still find it difficult to express my ideas. The Leaving Cert,IMO, just teaches you to regurgitate info. It doesn't really show you how to write a discursive essay. Well, for me, it didn't.

Definitely a pre-university year to prepare you for 3rd level (something like the access course that mature students do) would be great.

Mardy Bum

playedalive wrote: »

Even now in final year, I still find it difficult to express my ideas. The Leaving Cert,IMO, just teaches you to regurgitate info. It doesn't really show you how to write a discursive essay. Well, for me, it didn't.

Definitely a pre-university year to prepare you for 3rd level (something like the access course that mature students do) would be great.

I had the same experience but I believe this is less a result of the LC exam but more a teaching and learning issue. It takes a lot of effort to improve your writing and it takes guidance. Tens of books should be read in fifth and sixth year and students should regularly be writing. Most students will not put the effort in and some teachers do not give guidance.

entropi

No (if no, say why)

I've seen TY students going around ITC in recent weeks anyway, so I know that some schools must do it, at least in the Carlow area. It can be a good tool for them to see what some college degrees entail, if they have a view to pursuing it after the LC.

Chavways

No (if no, say why)

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No, I don't think 14 year olds should be in college. I wouldn't be too happy as a student with kids in the class. Too much debauchery for 14 year olds.

Where have you gotten the idea that people are 14 doing TY? People are 16 and 17 when they are in Transition Year - Nearing adulthood so it'd be great to give them a taste of college.

Kinski

Chavways wrote: »

Where have you gotten the idea that people are 14 doing TY? People are 16 and 17 when they are in Transition Year - Nearing adulthood so it'd be great to give them a taste of college.

They're 15 usually; most people would turn 17 in their leaving cert year (if they don't do TY.)

Mardy Bum

Chavways wrote: »

Nearing adulthood so it'd be great to give them a taste of college.

Yeah right, all it does is prolong childhood.

Chavways

No (if no, say why)

Kinski wrote: »

They're 15 usually; most people would turn 17 in their leaving cert year (if they don't do TY.)

I was 16 going into TY as were most of my class.Some were 17,and a very small few were 15. I was 18 going on 19 doing my Leaving Cert as were most of my classmates.

Kinski

Chavways wrote: »

I was 16 going into TY as were most of my class.Some were 17,and a very small few were 15. I was 18 going on 19 doing my Leaving Cert as were most of my classmates.

I thought it was usually:
1st 12/13
2nd 13/14
3rd 14/15
4/5th 15/16
6th 16/17

...with a few older students who turned 18 in 6th.

playedalive

No (if no, say why)

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I had the same experience but I believe this is less a result of the LC exam but more a teaching and learning issue. It takes a lot of effort to improve your writing and it takes guidance. Tens of books should be read in fifth and sixth year and students should regularly be writing. Most students will not put the effort in and some teachers do not give guidance.

I know what you mean. It is a pity. I really like literature and writing. But, I was never guided by anybody in Secondary School. Then in College, they expect you to know already.

Chavways

No (if no, say why)

Kinski wrote: »

I thought it was usually:
1st 12/13
2nd 13/14
3rd 14/15
4/5th 15/16
6th 16/17

...with a few older students who turned 18 in 6th.

Add 1 year to all of those and it will be correct.

Miss Lockhart

Chavways wrote: »

Add 1 year to all of those and it will be correct.

Not in any school I've taught in.

12/13 in First Year, 15/16 in TY and 17/18 in 6th Year would definitely be the norm. People turning 19 in the last month or so of 6th Year happens occasionally.

Adjusted down a year for those not doing TY obviously.

April O Neill

First year of college should be an undeclared year like in the States, where you take a wide variety of courses before choosing your major.

Muir

UCD do this. They have shadowing where a 5th (or 6th, can't quite remember) year student comes in and shadows a first year to classes for 2 days. They also run something for TY students, I think it's a week long and you basically pick which subjects you're interested in & have lectures. They also run Summer Schools for secondary school students with lectures & labs in Science areas. I imagine some other colleges do it too.