Manager Transfer Window

The Guardian

This is idiotic in my personal opinion

Incey - sit down and have another think about this

Your views please....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21957534

Paz-CCFC

There is a protection for managers - it's called compensation.

The Guardian

and idiot managers dont deserve any real 'protection' imo

GavRedKing

The Guardian wrote: »

and idiot managers dont deserve any real 'protection' imo

What defines an " idiot " manager though?

The Guardian

apologies, i should consider my wording more carefully

if you hire a gaffer that within 3/4 games shows a lack of understanding of basic tactical principles, and/or lacks a credible strategic medium term vision for the club, then in my opinion you should be turfing him out back on the dole queue

bullvine

Football clubs are businesses and if you feel like you've made a mistake hiring the most important employee, you need to get rid of him quick.

Maybe a probation period, like in a regular job. Or, you can be sacked at any stage in the first window but if you make it to the second one, you cant be until the window has re-opened.

In fairness though, a lot of these managers don't help themselves by taking ridiculous position's a certain clubs.

Richard Hillman

GavRedKing wrote: »

What defines an " idiot " manager though?

GavRedKing

That's worse then the transfer window idea. :P

It's impossible to bed down your ideas and philisophy within a handful of games, the players will only just be about grasping your ideas before you're kicked out the door.

The dangerous part is who is going to decide that a manager lacks tactical knowledge? The chairman/owner who hasnt seen a coaching course in his life.

Its lunacy, a club that hires a manager shouldnt go sacking him when it goes tits up after a few weeks.

LuckyLloyd

Blackburn have been a circus in recent times, and it's ultimately down to them making a string of terrible hires this season - but anyone could see that Appleton was utterly hapless and wasn't deserving of any more time.

RoryMac

The Guardian wrote: »

if you hire a gaffer that within 3/4 games shows a lack of understanding of basic tactical principles, and/or lacks a credible strategic medium term vision for the club, then in my opinion you should be turfing him out back on the dole queue

The person who hired the manager in your example should be the one getting sacked!

Pj!

The Guardian wrote: »

and idiot managers dont deserve any real 'protection' imo

The Guardian wrote: »

if you hire a gaffer that within 3/4 games shows a lack of understanding of basic tactical principles, and/or lacks a credible strategic medium term vision for the club, then in my opinion you should be turfing him out back on the dole queue

You're not going to solve anything.

How are these idiot managers getting appointed? What on earth is wrong with the recruitment process?

Mitch Connor

Amusing that he uses Appleton as an example of a manager getting no time.

Yeah, Blackpool were horrid for sacking him so quickly, weren't they.

EuropeanSon

GavRedKing wrote: »

The dangerous part is who is going to decide that a manager lacks tactical knowledge? The chairman/owner who hasnt seen a coaching course in his life.

I'm not able to play a Mozart concerto, but if some eejit who says he can is slapping the keyboard randomly I think I'm still qualified to say that he's not able to play one either.

CSF

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I'm not able to play a Mozart concerto, but if some eejit who says he can is slapping the keyboard randomly I think I'm still qualified to say that he's not able to play one either.

Terrible comparison. Chalk and cheese.

Essien

If a club has a player who's clearly not up to it, they can drop him or use him sparingly before moving him on during the window. There are plenty of players on the bench willing and able to take his spot.

You can't exactly take a manager off the bench, so what's the point in keeping one around who's clearly not up to the job?

GavRedKing

EuropeanSon wrote: »

I'm not able to play a Mozart concerto, but if some eejit who says he can is slapping the keyboard randomly I think I'm still qualified to say that he's not able to play one either.

The problem is that eejit would be left nowhere near a stage/venue of any great importance (club) and if he is its the organiser (chairman/owner) who should take a look at themsleves for allowing it to happen in the first place.

I've no problem with managers coming and going, my gripe is with the OP who said give a guy 3 or 4 games, what is that going to acheive at all?

That's worse then anything even Abromivich could dream up.

The Guardian

my point is that all clubs should have the right to sack a manager within 2 hours of arrival if they quickly realise that the guy is not fit-for-purpose / equipped to undertake the role

i'm not suggesting this is good practice, but business is business and if its not working out you cut your losses as quickly as possible (and dont wait for some ridiculous transfer window to open)

simple as..

The Guardian

thats that sorted so...

lets move onto the next discussion topic.

GavRedKing

The Guardian wrote: »

my point is that all clubs should have the right to sack a manager within 2 hours of arrival if they quickly realise that the guy is not fit-for-purpose / equipped to undertake the role

i'm not suggesting this is good practice, but business is business and if its not working out you cut your losses as quickly as possible (and dont wait for some ridiculous transfer window to open)

simple as..

So its gone from 3/4 games to 2 hours.

" Hi, welcome to club, you have 2 hours to improve, our position financially and globally and also to win trophies and build a team, good luck. "

Excellent idea.

The transfer window for managers is a stupid idea and your suggestions to combat it are worse, every manager would be sacked with a month if clubs took your line of approach.

Sgt Pepper 64

GavRedKing wrote: »

So its gone from 3/4 games to 2 hours.

" Hi, welcome to club, you have 2 hours to improve, our position financially and globally and also to win trophies and build a team, good luck. "

Excellent idea.

The transfer window for managers is a stupid idea and your suggestions to combat it are worse, every manager would be sacked with a month if clubs took your line of approach.

"Right then, I'm off to put some cones out"

Paully D

If Paul Ince isn't a success as a manager the only reason will be because he's black and wasn't given a chance :rolleyes:

The Guardian

GavRedKing wrote: »

So its gone from 3/4 games to 2 hours.

" Hi, welcome to club, you have 2 hours to improve, our position financially and globally and also to win trophies and build a team, good luck. "

Excellent idea.

The transfer window for managers is a stupid idea and your suggestions to combat it are worse, every manager would be sacked with a month if clubs took your line of approach.

dude, you're missing the point again

football is a business
generally individuals are hired to manage components of a business, that is to oversee the achievement of agreed goals and objectives
when it becomes clear that a hire is not capable of making this happen, a good business will promptly make this individual disappear.
this disappearance might be activated within a day of arrival, within a year of arrival, maybe even after 20 years
however, the important thing here to remember is that disappearance is possible at any chosen time

introducing some window so that all the losers can be turfed out after they've been given a fair chance is quite frankly, loserdom of the highest order.

CSF

Paully D wrote: »

If Paul Ince isn't a success as a manager the only reason will be because he's black and wasn't given a chance :rolleyes:

Ah here

Paully D

CSF wrote: »

Ah here

The world according to Paul Ince. John Barnes is another who throws in the racism card to cover up for his own failings as a manager.

Paully D

Paully D wrote: »

The world according to Paul Ince. John Barnes is another who throws in the racism card to cover up for his own failings as a manager.

Stick a link up for Barnes playing the racism card.

Always found him brilliant when talking about racism tbh. Speaks a lot of sense.

Paully D

rarnes1 wrote: »

Stick a link up for Barnes playing the racism card.

Always found him brilliant when talking about racism tbh. Speaks a lot of sense.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/jun/16/john-barnes-tranmere-manager

"From the perspective of what happened with Celtic people might argue that I didn't have the experience for another big job but I don't think my experience with Celtic explains why I couldn't get a job in the fourth division. Look at how Paul Ince wasn't given enough time at Blackburn. Young English managers don't get enough time, young black managers aren't given enough time, there are a lot of reasons why. I went for a fair few jobs before this and lower down than Tranmere, at least half a dozen in the last five years."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/7463038.stm

"I believe the situation for black managers is like it was for black players back in the 1970s," he stated.

"Black players used to be put out on the wing because it was deemed they could run fast but not think too well.

"They weren't trusted to be a playmaker in central midfield or to wear the captain's armband.

"Now I think there is an analogous situation in management. Chairmen don't believe we can do the top managerial jobs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-426036/Barnes-Black-managers-dont-chances.html

Former England international John Barnes believes there is sub-conscious racism in British football which sees black managers treated unfairly.

........

The Liverpool legend said: "From an athletic point of view there will be black people because athletically we are equal, from a managerial perspective it's more to do with the intellectual aspect of it and I don't think we are regarded as intellectually equal."

How is that covering up his own failings as a manager?

Seems like he is making some good points there.

CSF

Paully D wrote: »

The world according to Paul Ince. John Barnes is another who throws in the racism card to cover up for his own failings as a manager.

Please provide some quotes of either man saying racism had anything to do with their failings.

CSF

CSF wrote: »

Please provide some quotes of either man saying racism had anything to do with their failings.

I would say they don't exist.

Been down this road before with Paully

BhoscaCapall

Paul Ince, one of the worst managers ever in the game, who tried to play the race card when he got found out as useless. Shouldn't even be given the time of day.

CSF

You're so far off the mark with those quotes Paully. No excuses for their failings at all, just raising awareness of a much wider issues.

CSF

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

Paul Ince, one of the worst managers ever in the game, who tried to play the race card when he got found out as useless. Shouldn't even be given the time of day.

Gwan so, gimme a quote of Ince saying he was hard done by in a job because of his colour.

Kirby

Nobody will come out with it so openly like that because they know better. You won't get a quote like that. But that doesn't mean they don't make the same excuses in a less obvious fashion. You don't think it's oddly self serving to write an article about black managers not getting enough time......if you are a black manager yourself?

CSF

Kirby wrote: »

Nobody will come out with it so openly like that because they know better. You won't get a quote like that. But that doesn't mean they don't make the same excuses in a less obvious fashion. You don't think it's oddly self serving to write an article about black managers not getting enough time......if you are a black manager yourself?

No I don't think so. It is an obvious issue that needs to be addressed, and who else other than black footballers and coaches are going to address it?

Kiwi_knock

The fact Paul Ince is not a good manager (only got the Blackpool job because his son play for them) should not take away from the fact that a lot of qualified black coaches are not getting the chance to actually coach at a decent level.

Very good article here on Michael Johnson (ex Derby and Birmingham player) attempts to get into management.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20123376