DCM 2013: Mentored Novices Thread......Take 2

Woden

Hi everyone,

Time for me to join the party and to say thanks so far for all the advice I've gleaned from the forum.

Signed up for DCM yesterday after finishing my first half marathon. Started running back in August for weight loss and have been enjoying it so want to keep it going. Will probably keep it fairly low key until I see how things are going. Would hate to get injured and not be able to proceed.

•Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

- 5k Parkrun at end of C25k Oct 2012 - 30:33
- 5k Parkrun Nov 2012 - 29:43
- 10k Regent Park Winter Series Jan 2013 - 55:04
- 10K Regent Park Winter Series Feb 2013 – 52:19
- East London Half Marathon April 2013 – 1:57:39

•Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)

- No

•How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.

Running - Currently running 3 times a week. For the half marathon it was loosely based on halhigdon with the focus on the long run but I only took 2 of the mid week runs as I felt the 3 back to back attempt around Christmas sparked off some injuries which I have been working with. I do the LSR on the Saturday and built up to 20k before the half. The mid week runs varied between 5-10k generally increasing with the LSR

Strength/Cross - I’d do one day of strengthening – squats, lunges mostly from physio recommendation and ITB rolling and then perhaps an hour on the bike on Sunday (but not very often)

•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time ?

Dream time – Sub 4

Realistic time – Sub 4:15. McMillian has 4:08. I’m hoping the additional months of base would help and I thought there would be another half to do in August/September perhaps to get a more realistic time close to the date

Other - From a post on my training log from this thread i’m hoping to get a flavour for other concepts such as use of the HRM with the Garmin. Different run types such as Easy and Tempo and when to do them. If/when/what to eat/drink for marathon training (just took some water on board for the half)

•How many days a week can you train ?

4-5 if work doesn’t change significantly

•Why are you running this marathon ?

Need a new goal after the half and I like working off a training plan and so far I’m preferred increasing distance rather than speed.
Continued weight loss
Dublin is my home town so it would be great to go back and do it there

•Questions?

Training paces then. Still working in kilometres. For the half I was targeting 5:40/km and tried to keep the LSR at 6.00/km as I’ve read it should be 30-90seconds per mile slower. I see that a pace calculator is recommending a long run pace of 6:26-7:15. Is this excessively slow?

Based around the same numbers then what pace should I be doing for the mid week runs. Assuming there are 2 at the moment. One at easy and one at tempo after a warmup based on say paces from http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/general/rws-training-pace-calculator/1676.html ?

Thanks,

Woden

runwithme

Welcome to the running group woden. Sounds like your well on track so far with a good solid base.........

career_move

runwithme wrote: »

Welcome to the running group woden. Sounds like your well on track so far with a good solid base.........

+1
See here for info on your paces. 7:15 seems a tiny bit on the slow side.



I don't really like working in kilometers

rasher_m

career_move wrote: »

+1
See here for info on your paces. 7:15 seems a tiny bit on the slow side.



I don't really like working in kilometers

Hi C_M, I was only talking to someone the other day about you
I think I read that you ran your lsrs at 10.30 pace if thats correct and NCMC ran hers at 10 mins.
I also ran mine at 10 mins.
Now I know you may both be a bit fitter/more natural ability than myself but I'm trying to get my head around which pace makes the more sense.
My friend said maybe I should have been running mine even slower and then I was thinking maybe I should just have been running an extra few miles more than was on the Hal plan.
Whats your opinion on this?

career_move

Hi A Well I think you could easily slow down your lsr to 10:30. I definitely wasn't running mine any faster than that. The mileage thing is important too though. Hal higdon is very skimpy on the long runs. If you're running them a bit slower you won't notice the 20 milers and I think you need to build up to at least 2x20m to be well prepared.

Sorry to hear about your calf pain btw :mad:

rasher_m

career_move wrote: »

Hi A Well I think you could easily slow down your lsr to 10:30. I definitely wasn't running mine any faster than that. The mileage thing is important too though. Hal higdon is very skimpy on the long runs. If you're running them a bit slower you won't notice the 20 milers and I think you need to build up to at least 2x20m to be well prepared.

Sorry to hear about your calf pain btw :mad:

Thanks c_m
How fast did you run your mid week runs, if you don't mind me asking and did you add much mileage to the plan yourself?

Woden

career_move wrote: »

+1
See here for info on your paces. 7:15 seems a tiny bit on the slow side.



I don't really like working in kilometers

Cheers I couldn't see the training paces on McMillan earlier for some reason but there LSR is in the 5:49-6:37 (9:22-10:40) region which makes the 6min/k reasonable it seems.

I'll make the switch to miles tonight for the recovery run and perhaps target 10 min/mile for the LSR

career_move

rasher_m wrote: »

Thanks c_m
How fast did you run your mid week runs, if you don't mind me asking and did you add much mileage to the plan yourself?

I only got a garmin in Oct so I'll look it up later on mapmyrun for you

Gavlor

I think there should be a mod note in the first post regarding measurement of distance.

Just so we are clear:

Kilometres for cycling;

MILES for running.

rasher_m

career_move wrote: »

I only got a garmin in Oct so I'll look it up later on mapmyrun for you

Ah its grand if its not handy then don't worry about it. I was just curious to see the different times for training.

MazzR

Hi!! Can I join in?? Well, maybe join in, advice would be good. I've been running on and off for two yrs or so but its been way too sporadic,until this year. The DCM is such a dream but please tell me if its a delusional dream for 2013 please!!
•Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Not much,did a 5k 3 wks ago in 30.?? Did a 10k last september in just over an hour.
•Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training ? (No problem if you do)
The v odd time if I've set off too fast.
•How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
I run with my local club 2 nights a week and would do 3-4 miles,myself 2 other days and try and do 4 miles again. I cycle maybe 1 day a week for an hour or so but plan to increase this.
•What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time ?
TBH, to finish it is the dream!!
•How many days a week can you train ?
4-5 running anyway. Maybe more
•Why are you running this marathon ?
Oh back to the dream!!!
Like I said, I've dedicated myself to training this year,helped along by giving up the smokes which i feel hindered me all along,so I'm looking forward to seeing an improvement in times and comfort even!!!!

So, what do ye think???

scriba

Gavlor wrote: »

I think there should be a mod note in the first post regarding measurement of distance.

Just so we are clear:

Kilometres for cycling;

MILES for running.

Boo! Kilometres for running. Splits come sooner, and bigger numbers to fire into your log.

career_move

MazzR wrote: »

So, what do ye think???

Ya no bother to you as long as you're prepared to put the work in

Gavlor

scriba wrote: »

Boo! Kilometres for running. Splits come sooner, and bigger numbers to fire into your log.

Ah yeah.... But you have more splits... 42 instead of 26.1!!
Demorilising when you are only 1/3 thru a marathon!!!

scriba

Gavlor wrote: »

Ah yeah.... But you have more splits... 42 instead of 26.1!!
Demorilising when you are only 1/3 thru a marathon!!!

I'm thinking of changing to miles for the marathon... *hangs head in metric shame*

career_move

rasher_m wrote: »

Ah its grand if its not handy then don't worry about it. I was just curious to see the different times for training.

They were mostly around the 9:00 - 10:30 time. Some of them were around 11:15 though and the recoveries were around 12:15 I only did 4 pace runs but they were a bit quicker than PMP pace @ 8:15 - 8:40

KillianByrne

MazzR wrote: »

Hi!! Can I join in??
So, what do ye think???

I think you'll have no issues running a marathon if you train. You already get out with the runners on a couple of times a week, you're in a club so have a direct support network and you say that you'll have the time to train from now till race day.

All you need to do now is get out & do it. You have enough fitness now to start, you just need to build it up.

Go for it...

ahnowbrowncow

Anyone else doing the 5k in Dundalk this Saturday?

I signed up to it a couple of weeks ago but I haven't been doing too much running lately so I'll see how it goes. It'll be my first 5k so I'll at least have a benchmark for the future.

Any advice on how to best prepare for it? Seeing as I haven't much mileage in the legs I was thinking of getting out tomorrow and Thursday for a 10k and 8k run respectively and resting Friday.

Also signed up for the Samsung night run 10k which is in 12 days now, any advice for training between now and then?

MazzR

Great!! Can't wait to get stuck into the training...I'm ready for it!

pconn062

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Anyone else doing the 5k in Dundalk this Saturday?

I signed up to it a couple of weeks ago but I haven't been doing too much running lately so I'll see how it goes. It'll be my first 5k so I'll at least have a benchmark for the future.

Any advice on how to best prepare for it? Seeing as I haven't much mileage in the legs I was thinking of getting out tomorrow and Thursday for a 10k and 8k run respectively and resting Friday.

Also signed up for the Samsung night run 10k which is in 12 days now, any advice for training between now and then?

I am doing that race alright, it's a great race. Between now and then just keep it ticking over, there is nothing you can do between now and then that will help your performance but you can damage your prospects. If you haven't done much running recently, be careful about doing a 10k and 8k run that close to the race, only do it if you are familiar with that kind of mileage, you don't want sore muscles on the day of the race. With regards to the race itself, the first kilometre is mostly downhill and it can be easy to get carried away and go off too fast, there is a bit of a climb in the middle of the race so you need to save a bit for that and the final k which is also downhill.
For the 10k I would just try and get out as often as possible (without overdoing it) before the race, any running you get done will benefit you. I wouldn't bother with any sessions maybe apart from an fartlek session or something like that to give an injection of pace to your training.

martyboy48

I was going to ask about the whole kms vs miles units, but I see it's been brought up already

I suppose I'll make the change tomorrow and conform :pac:

I saw a chart of some kind here on boards a while ago. It was just one page with miles/kms/distance/pace converter. You didn't have to input anything, just a simple 'down and across' reference thingy.. I don't suppose any of ye know what I'm looking for??

career_move

martyboy48 wrote: »

I was going to ask about the whole kms vs miles units, but I see it's been brought up already

I suppose I'll make the change tomorrow and conform :pac:

I saw a chart of some kind here on boards a while ago. It was just one page with miles/kms/distance/pace converter. You didn't have to input anything, just a simple 'down and across' reference thingy.. I don't suppose any of ye know what I'm looking for??

Is this any good to you?

Dilbert75

martyboy48 wrote: »

I was going to ask about the whole kms vs miles units, but I see it's been brought up already

I suppose I'll make the change tomorrow and conform :pac:

No! If you want to run in km's then do - there are a handful of fossils (like Gavlor) from last year's novices who can't accept that we went fully metric nearly 10 years ago. Km also gives you better control / quicker feedback on your pace.

Dilbert75

scriba wrote: »

I'm thinking of changing to miles for the marathon... *hangs head in metric shame*

Don't do it - viva la revolution!

scriba

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Don't do it - viva la revolution!

I'm thinking Al Pacino's speech in "Any Given Sunday" ... Life ... is a game of cm. Down with imperial measurement!

Woden

I am conflicted!

Gavlor

Woden wrote: »

I am conflicted!

Have a look at our PB's and decide who is correct

upthe19th

Gavlor wrote: »

I think there should be a mod note in the first post regarding measurement of distance.

Just so we are clear:

Kilometres for cycling;

MILES for running.

And more importantly....

Pints for drinking

KillianByrne

Do the mentors still get paid in pints? if so, can last years novices who drop in some helpful advice get paid in Shorts?

As in gin & vodka, not the other type of shorts.

Laois_Man

Well I do both Kms and miles - I put the formulas into my Excel spreadsheet log so that it does the conversion for me automatically and I see all distances and speeds in terms of both.

Having said that, I mostly use KMs......what with my injury record that may flare up if I jump up too far too soon, I am more comfortabe increasing my LSR's by 1Km than by 1 mile....safer.

Plus.....I'm a modern man!

Gavlor

Laois_Man wrote: »

.

Plus.....I'm a modern man!

Keep it down, Mrs Gavlor is in cooking the dinner & washing the dishes

Dilbert75

Gavlor wrote: »

Have a look at our PB's and decide who is correct

Pride comes before a fall...

Gavlor

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Pride comes before a fall...

Haha, I'm always building myself up for a fall..... BUT......

"Believe it can be done. When you believe something can be done, really believe, your mind will find ways to do it. Believing paves the way to solution"

David F. Shwartz: Magic of thinking big

Laois_Man

Gavlor wrote: »

Haha, I'm always building myself up for a fall..... BUT......

"Believe it can be done. When you believe something can be done, really believe, your mind will find ways to do it. Believing paves the way to solution"

David F. Shwartz: Magic of thinking big

I'm setting a new World Record at this years DCM then!

Gavlor

Laois_Man wrote: »

I'm setting a new World Record at this years DCM then!

Forgot to add this

*follow any advice given by gavlor corp at your own risk

Kurt Godel

Dublin Marathon is measured by 26 mile markers, and also every 5km. Whatever unit of measurement you prefer to use in training, km or miles, is a personal preference, either will be an arbitrary measurement guide for your pace; one is no better than the other.

However, if you are running by pace, its better to run off the 5km splits in the marathon, they'll be a more useful gauge of how you are controlling your pace. Learning what your steady 5km split pace is in training, will be more useful on the day, than your mile pace. Reason for this is that the distance markers (miles or 5km) are fixed to lampposts, and so will err +/- wherever the lampposts are, and there's a greater variation in the mile markers. Therefore if you are making the choice now between miles or kms, everything else being equal, go with the more accurate km.

pconn062

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Dublin Marathon is measured by 26 mile markers, and also every 5km. Whatever unit of measurement you prefer to use in training, km or miles, is a personal preference, either will be an arbitrary measurement guide for your pace; one is no better than the other.

However, if you are running by pace, its better to run off the 5km splits in the marathon, they'll be a more useful gauge of how you are controlling your pace. Learning what your steady 5km split pace is in training, will be more useful on the day, than your mile pace. Reason for this is that the distance markers (miles or 5km) are fixed to lampposts, and so will err +/- wherever the lampposts are, and there's a greater variation in the mile markers. Therefore if you are making the choice now between miles or kms, everything else being equal, go with the more accurate km.

Jeez, you've spent too much time on the tri forum! As Lydiard said, miles make champions! (Seriously it's a personal thing and Kurt's point is valid, unless you're too old school like me!)

Kurt Godel

pconn062 wrote: »

Jeez, you've spent too much time on the tri forum! As Lydiard said, miles make champions! (Seriously it's a personal thing and Kurt's point is valid, unless you're too old school like me!)

Haha, I'm of a similar vintage school to yourself pconn! I've been trying to wean myself onto km's for a couple of years now. Yesterday on a run I noticed my garmin average was showing 4:15/km pace and my automatic thought was "Yes! That's 6:50/mile pace" Old habits...

It's all arbitrary if you're just running off whatever time/distance (and for the most part a race pace should be dictated by those around you that you are racing, rather than by your watch). But anyone choosing km's or miles starting off, go with km's. It'll make 10k's, 5k's, easier to pace, as well as Dublin marathon (reasons above).

RunningKing

tried and failed to change to KM's - always trying to do the conversion.

shortstuff!

I was measuring in km when I started running, training for 5 & 10km races but have been switching to miles since I started training for 1/2 & beyond... If the race/training program measures in miles so do I!

martyboy48

career_move wrote: »

Is this any good to you?

The one is was thinking of had both miles and kms pace for various distances and various times. But the one you linked will still be handy thank you

Dilbert75 wrote: »

No! If you want to run in km's then do - there are a handful of fossils (like Gavlor) from last year's novices who can't accept that we went fully metric nearly 10 years ago. Km also gives you better control / quicker feedback on your pace.

Ah I see, So you're not frowned upon if mentioning your pace in kms/min :D To be honest, what I really want is a good idea of both units. I suppose just using both will give me a better idea in comparison terms.

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Haha, I'm of a similar vintage school to yourself pconn! I've been trying to wean myself onto km's for a couple of years now. Yesterday on a run I noticed my garmin average was showing 4:15/km pace and my automatic thought was "Yes! That's 6:50/mile pace" Old habits...

It's all arbitrary if you're just running off whatever time/distance (and for the most part a race pace should be dictated by those around you that you are racing, rather than by your watch). But anyone choosing km's or miles starting off, go with km's. It'll make 10k's, 5k's, easier to pace, as well as Dublin marathon (reasons above).

An interesting point... My thoughts would be (for a novice marathoner) to have a target time based on a recent HM, and pace yourself to this initially, then towards end of race try to reel in a few people and push on if you have anything left in you?? If I was to have a race pace based on those around me, I'm sure i'd get carried away with myself and burn out after 10km??

Oh and how you compared both kms/min and miles/min on your run as it happened is what I want. I suppose best to just learn of a few key ones it would give me a fair idea of the rest...

Kurt Godel

martyboy48 wrote: »

An interesting point... My thoughts would be (for a novice marathoner) to have a target time based on a recent HM, and pace yourself to this initially, then towards end of race try to reel in a few people and push on if you have anything left in you?? If I was to have a race pace based on those around me, I'm sure i'd get carried away with myself and burn out after 10km??

I had 5km and 10k in mind here, but yeah, good call, a novice isn't going to be racing peers. Your way above (run by pace for most of the race and then push on the end) is the way to go.

ahnowbrowncow

I did a 9k run this morning, I got quite frustrated running into the 40km/h winds.

The Irish weather needs to get it's act together, coldest march on record and a very windy April just isn't acceptable imo.

And of course it's now a lovely evening. Thanks for that.

Laois_Man

Cold is the best weather to run in!

rob w

Hi everyone,

Rob W reporting for duty!

Having spent the last 90 mins or so reading this thread (and take 1) from start to finish I decided it was time to post. I have come across some of you guys in these forums last year while training for the Dublin Half, lurked a lot in this thread last year and always found great advice and support here. So have decided to enter the DCM 2013 this year as my first marathon and looking forward to it ans the progression of this thread already!

Started running last year and ran the Dublin Half 2012 quite comfortably and loved it, since then have tipped away over the winter not following any particular plan, but just keeping fitness up. Am quite busy with college work at the moment, but that's all done in May (thank god :rolleyes:) and ill be getting back on track fully then. Will try and get a parkrun in over the next few weeks to get a 5k race time, (but currently doing 5k in training in 25:00)



*I have taken a shine to Hal Higdons Marathon 3 Plan, slightly adjusted to suit my schedule, (see link https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47146575/Robs%20Training%20Log.pdf) and would appreciate feedback on suitability for a first marathon!*


So now down to the nitty gritty!


Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)


Just the one race last year! Did it quite comfortably, for fear of going out to fast!

Dublin HM 2012 1.53

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?

Nope, but havent done more than 10k in the last few months, but don't generally take them anyway!

How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant

Lately have been busy with the final year of college, so rarely spend time outside of the library . I try to nip down to the gym during breaks and get a couple of miles in up to three times a week, about 3 - 5 miles each time. Just want to keep some sort of fitness there until I start training properly. Kind of been doing that all through the winter, but was running a bit more frequently before xmas than I am now.

I also cycle, around 100km a week, using commuting time to get a bit of a workout when I can!

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?

Would be absolutely chuffed with a sub 4 marathon, but being my first I just want to get over that line in October!

How many days a week can you train?

Should be free to train up to 5 times a week, once I finish college in May will have much more free time on my hands!

I am looking for a plan that can combine running with cycling as my crosstraining, the Hal Higdon Marathon 3 looks promising, I have adjusted it around slightly to meet race dates I plan on entering, see the link to my plan at the start of this post. I would like some advice on whether you guys think this may be a suitable plan for me to follow, (Hal Higdon says it fits in between his novice and intermediate plans), I am interested in it because it allows me to get some cycling in too and I am confident I could handle it, but am open to suggestions if you guys think the running is more important.......whatever it takes to get me over the finish line

Why are you running this marathon?

Its something I have wanted to do for a long time, but other commitments last year saw me not enter the DCM after contemplating about doing it once I finished the Dublin HM. I had a strange sense of longing or something the weekend of the marathon when I knew I should have been out there doing it, so there is no stopping me this year :cool:. Also using the opportunity to raise some funds for a charity I am currently volunteering for.

Dilbert75

rob w wrote: »

I have taken a shine to Hal Higdons Marathon 3 Plan, slightly adjusted to suit my schedule, (see link https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47146575/Robs%20Training%20Log.pdf) and would appreciate feedback on suitability for a first marathon!*

Pretty intense-looking plan at first glance but on closer inspection there's a decent amount of rest and cross-training. Looks good - good luck with it.

shortstuff!

rob w wrote: »

*I have taken a shine to Hal Higdons Marathon 3 Plan, slightly adjusted to suit my schedule, (see link https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47146575/Robs%20Training%20Log.pdf) and would appreciate feedback on suitability for a first .

Welcome aboard Rob! I'm a novice to so take this with a pinch of salt, the experts will be around shortly... you have pace/tempo runs scheduled the day after your Duathalon races, assuming your going to be racing these I would imagine a recovery run the day after would be a better option?

Seems to be a lot of fast novices around here, 25min 5km in training:eek:

rob w

Dilbert75 wrote: »

Pretty intense-looking plan at first glance but on closer inspection there's a decent amount of rest and cross-training. Looks good - good luck with it.

Yeah there's quite a bit of rest, and I'll take it easy on the cross training I think. I suppose I can stick with it and see how I'm doing by the time whatever plan gets going in here in june!

rob w

shortstuff! wrote: »

Welcome aboard Rob! I'm a novice to so take this with a pinch of salt, the experts will be around shortly... you have pace/tempo runs scheduled the day after your Duathalon races, assuming your going to be racing these I would imagine a recovery run the day after would be a better option?

Seems to be a lot of fast novices around here, 25min 5km in training:eek:

Oh yeah, never copped that when I entered those duathlons, will need to rearrange som rest days I think, thanks!

And the 5k in 25min is me racing myself if you know what I mean, not really indicative of my training pace, usually training runs are a bit slower than that!

Darren 83

I'm with my local running club we train on Tuesday and Thursday looking at the novice plan 1 on these days it never goes over 5 miles. What would be the best way to incorporate the extra miles, or just have two club sessions and two easy runs?