DCM 2013: Mentored Novices Thread......Take 2

career_move

rob w wrote: »

*I have taken a shine to Hal Higdons Marathon 3 Plan, slightly adjusted to suit my schedule, (see link https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47146575/Robs%20Training%20Log.pdf) and would appreciate feedback on suitability for a first marathon!*

Hi Rob welcome to the thread
Your plan looks tough. Sept looks very intense with 3 x 20m and a HM. All I can say is see how its going and be careful of your pace cause I could see you easily getting injured if you go too fast with that work load. Best of luck with it

career_move

Darren 83 wrote: »

I'm with my local running club we train on Tuesday and Thursday looking at the novice plan 1 on these days it never goes over 5 miles. What would be the best way to incorporate the extra miles, or just have two club sessions and two easy runs?

I'd be inclined to only do one club session and three easy runs and not worry about the extra mileage

shortstuff!

5km run & a 40km cycle done this morning, what a gorgeous day! Now for some foam rolling!!

runwithme

shortstuff! wrote: »

5km run & a 40km cycle done this morning, what a gorgeous day! Now for some foam rolling!!

Got out myself on the bike this morning. Great day for it 30k done and I should get a run in after work this evening....Great weather guys.

ahnowbrowncow

It's race day today, doing the Patsy Kelly 5k in Dundalk.

The goal is to run under 20 min but I'm not too sure where I'm at fitness wise so I'm thinking of starting off fast and just trying to hold on. Could be a recipe for disaster but no matter what I'll be getting a PB seeing as it's my first 5k Unless of course it goes so wrong that I don't finish it

It's looking a bit windy out there but I got my haircut so I should be fine on the aerodynamic side of things.

shortstuff!

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

It's race day today, doing the Patsy Kelly 5k in Dundalk.

The goal is to run under 20 min but I'm not too sure where I'm at fitness wise so I'm thinking of starting off fast and just trying to hold on. Could be a recipe for disaster but no matter what I'll be getting a PB seeing as it's my first 5k Unless of course it goes so wrong that I don't finish it

It's looking a bit windy out there but I got my haircut so I should be fine on the aerodynamic side of things.

How did your race go???

Darren 83

Finding the club sessions hard but hopefully pays off for my next race, any one doing the boyne 10k?

Laois_Man

Short update from me. Things not going well with the injury. After completely resting it as much as I could for a whole week, I went on a very short 2.5K run/walk (mostly walk) and I'm as bad as ever again. Even at this early stage, can't see how I'm gonna be able to get thru marathon training whatsoever. I'm really really gutted.

Gonna have to get on the blower to the physio on Monday morning and see if he can salvage my chances!

dechol

Laois_Man wrote: »

Short update from me. Things not going well with the injury. After completely resting it as much as I could for a whole week, I went on a very short 2.5K run/walk (mostly walk) and I'm as bad as ever again. Even at this early stage, can't see how I'm gonna be able to get thru marathon training whatsoever. I'm really really gutted.

Gonna have to get on the blower to the physio on Monday morning and see if he can salvage my chances!

Whatever plan you follow for the marathon you have lots of time to get the injury sorted hopefully. Listen to the physio and if u need to rest...REST. don't push it to get back running before you are ready. You have lots of time to get it sorted before the marathon.

Laois_Man

dechol wrote: »

Whatever plan you follow for the marathon you have lots of time to get the injury sorted hopefully. Listen to the physio and if u need to rest...REST. don't push it to get back running before you are ready. You have lots of time to get it sorted before the marathon.

I know I sound unjustifyably pessimistic - but I know my body and after a year of these issues, I know my back responds badly to the increases of the LSR unless those increases are very very slow and gradual - and I know I have to stay well ahead of even the HHN1 plan because of it.

ahnowbrowncow

shortstuff! wrote: »

How did your race go???

Race went quite well so it did.

So the plan was to start off fast and keep it going to get under 20 minutes. The start of the race was downhill so I had no problem starting fast but it was too fast, halfway through the 1st km I looked at my watch and the average pace was about 3:15 min/km :eek:. So I had to slow things down and finished the 1st km in 3:39.
I had it in my mind that if I averaged 3:4X I'd get a sub 19 so for the second km I made sure my pace didn't go any slower than that and finished the second km in 3:45.
During the 3rd km we entered a park and there were some small hills that I wasn't expecting which made keeping the 3:4X pace tough and I was starting to struggle but managed to finish it in 3:48.

I knew the toughest part was to come (google street view ) as there is a hill for about 250m in the 4th km, my legs were starting to get tired and breathing was getting harder. I just concentrated on not letting the guy a few metres in front get any further away.
With the hill out of the way we were back to the starting point, so downhill again for the last 1.5 km or so. I had hoped to finish strong but the hill had taken it out of me and I was slowing down, did the 4th km in 3:58.

I knew the sub 19 was within reach if I picked the pace up again for the last km but I was wrecked. A few people passed me but I didn't have the energy to go with them, I was just trying to not slow down. I looked at my watch at the 400m marker and my lap pace was about 3:51. Those last few hundred metres were tough but I finished the last km in 3:45 for an overall of 18:56 (18:55 on my garmin). I'm delighted with that as I would have been happy with a sub 20. I definitely raced above my fitness level though as that was very tough and I haven't been running as often as I should so I'll have to get out more often, even if it is very windy.

I'd definitely recommend this race to everyone in the future, twas very good.

tang1

Thats fantastic running, fair play to you. Theres men who would kill for that time( me included ).

martyboy48

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Race went quite well so it did.

So the plan was to start off fast and keep it going to get under 20 minutes. The start of the race was downhill so I had no problem starting fast but it was too fast, halfway through the 1st km I looked at my watch and the average pace was about 3:15 min/km :eek:. So I had to slow things down and finished the 1st km in 3:39.
I had it in my mind that if I averaged 3:4X I'd get a sub 19 so for the second km I made sure my pace didn't go any slower than that and finished the second km in 3:45.
During the 3rd km we entered a park and there were some small hills that I wasn't expecting which made keeping the 3:4X pace tough and I was starting to struggle but managed to finish it in 3:48.

I knew the toughest part was to come (google street view ) as there is a hill for about 250m in the 4th km, my legs were starting to get tired and breathing was getting harder. I just concentrated on not letting the guy a few metres in front get any further away.
With the hill out of the way we were back to the starting point, so downhill again for the last 1.5 km or so. I had hoped to finish strong but the hill had taken it out of me and I was slowing down, did the 4th km in 3:58.

I knew the sub 19 was within reach if I picked the pace up again for the last km but I was wrecked. A few people passed me but I didn't have the energy to go with them, I was just trying to not slow down. I looked at my watch at the 400m marker and my lap pace was about 3:51. Those last few hundred metres were tough but I finished the last km in 3:45 for an overall of 18:56 (18:55 on my garmin). I'm delighted with that as I would have been happy with a sub 20. I definitely raced above my fitness level though as that was very tough and I haven't been running as often as I should so I'll have to get out more often, even if it is very windy.

I'd definitely recommend this race to everyone in the future, twas very good.

Awesome running.. Well done on the sub 19...

Dilbert75

Very well done - you really blitzed that course.

shortstuff!

Wow! Very impressive for your 1st 5km race.... They are times my legs can only dream of ha!!!

career_move

martyboy48 wrote: »

Awesome running.. Well done on the sub 19...

+1

ahnowbrowncow

Thanks very much everyone, you're making me blush . I went a bit crazy with the celebrations last night, I had pizza and pringles and hit the hay before 12, I know how to party.

Anyways, I've to concentrate on the samsung night run 10k next sunday now. I had hoped to get out for a long run today but I've a match later in the evening so I'll have to postpone the run until tomorrow. My running training really is quite haphazard at the minute.

shortstuff!

9mile LSR done @12:35 pace, had set the garmin to 12:00 but ya can't go too slow right?? 18miles for the week:)

Milknosugar

Well I finally got back to running after a few weeks off. Did 8 miles- was pretty tough but at least I know I can do it. I may have to revise my target for the burren half. I'd say 2'15 would be far too optimistic with the terrain involved. Ill see how the next few weeks go.

MazzR

Hi! Well done on great times and distances!! I, on the other hand did 4 miles last mon, 5 miles on tuesday, 2 miles on wednesday in the bad, horrible stormy weather,rest on thursday and then unscheduled rest fri,sat,sun as was thrown off with a bug. Was disgusted,but glad I got what I did done.Its more than I've ever done in a full week before and a bit faster too (not much). I'm definately noticing the difference without the smokes. I've such a long way to go but looking forward to starting a new week today and increasing the mileage. How many miles should I aim for in a week at this stage?

Darren 83

MazzR wrote: »

Hi! Well done on great times and distances!! I, on the other hand did 4 miles last mon, 5 miles on tuesday, 2 miles on wednesday in the bad, horrible stormy weather,rest on thursday and then unscheduled rest fri,sat,sun as was thrown off with a bug. Was disgusted,but glad I got what I did done.Its more than I've ever done in a full week before and a bit faster too (not much). I'm definately noticing the difference without the smokes. I've such a long way to go but looking forward to starting a new week today and increasing the mileage. How many miles should I aim for in a week at this stage?

Don't jump up more than 10% each week or you will get injured

MazzR

Darren 83 wrote: »

Don't jump up more than 10% each week or you will get injured

Thank you!

shortstuff!

This thread is after getting very quiet, where is everyone???

Did a nice 6.7mile run after work yesterday, reversed my usual route, nice for a change, previously FLAT sections suddenly turned into mini mountains though!! Had to "race" the last mile cos it was getting dark fairly quickly plus my dinner was waiting:D

Finding the inner calf very tender when foam rolling, anybody have good stretchs they use?

guinang

I use two stretches for the calf muscles. I've had problems with my soleus recently, and I've found both of these helped resolve the problems.

First one is turn towards a wall. Have one foot much in front of the other, almost as if you're stepping in towards the wall. Place both hands on the wall, and keep the foot that's further back flat on the ground. The leg further back is the one you're stretching. The further back you put that leg, the more you'll stretch. Be sure to not stretch too much on cold muscles.

Second one is stand about at arms length away from a wall. Keep your finger tips on the wall for balance. Go up on your toes, and then rock back on your heels. Keep that going for around 1 minute.

Pretty simple but effective.

shortstuff!

guinang wrote: »

I use two stretches for the calf muscles. I've had problems with my soleus recently, and I've found both of these helped resolve the problems.

First one is turn towards a wall. Have one foot much in front of the other, almost as if you're stepping in towards the wall. Place both hands on the wall, and keep the foot that's further back flat on the ground. The leg further back is the one you're stretching. The further back you put that leg, the more you'll stretch. Be sure to not stretch too much on cold muscles.

Second one is stand about at arms length away from a wall. Keep your finger tips on the wall for balance. Go up on your toes, and then rock back on your heels. Keep that going for around 1 minute.

Pretty simple but effective.

That's great thanks will definitely give those a go, must admit I'm not the best at remembering to stretch, must do better!

Woden

I've been taking it easy since the recent half. Last week was all slow 5k but got a 20k cycle in on Monday and then 8k run on Tuesday and will be back out for 5k tonight before the park run on Saturday.

Have been continuing with the new ankle exercises the physio gave me and last night I was foam rolling my left calf also as it is all super stiff for some reason. Will check out the stretches above.

My affair with miles did not last long. Back on the kilometers!

career_move

guinang wrote: »

First one is turn towards a wall. Have one foot much in front of the other, almost as if you're stepping in towards the wall. Place both hands on the wall, and keep the foot that's further back flat on the ground. The leg further back is the one you're stretching. The further back you put that leg, the more you'll stretch. Be sure to not stretch too much on cold muscles.

When you're doing this one you can also stretch one of the smaller calf muscles by keeping your back straight and extending your knee forward over the foot of the leg thats nearer the wall

greenb

Couldn't have dreamed of writing this a year ago, when the most exercise I'd had in 25 years was a short walk to the pub.

The last few months I've been averaging 25 to 30 miles a week, just building a base before marathon training. Now I've had a bad sinus infection for the past couple of weeks and have only got out for 1 6 mile run last week and none this week.......I'm losing my mind. Am really tempted to go out again but this infection is not clearing up and I still have some chest congestion...have been told symptoms below the neck, don't run.

Two questions: 1) would it really do me any harm to start doing a few easy runs with a chesty cough...and 2) how much is two weeks and counting with no running going to set me back...I'm panicking!

KillianByrne

greenb wrote: »

Two questions: 1) would it really do me any harm to start doing a few easy runs with a chesty cough...and 2) how much is two weeks and counting with no running going to set me back...I'm panicking!

Well done on your achievements!

with regards the cough, many follow the belief of if the illness is below the chin, then rest up or you could prolong the recovery. A couple of us on the 2012 thread didnt shift the cough before getting out and it took us weeks to get back 100%

Your body wont forget how to run in 2 weeks, dont worry. but dont jump straight bck to doing your mileage you finished up on, maybe step it back and build back up a little.

greenb

Thanks Killian....that seems like sound advice and in truth probably exactly the answer I was expecting to get.

What I was hoping to hear however was........"No problem, just get right out there and keep increasing the mileage. It will probably help clear up your cough and sinusitis";)

Is there nobody out there reckless enough to give me the advice I'm looking for?:mad:

guinang

I ran a half marathon last weekend with a cold that I thought hadn't shifted but it had. I felt immediately better the next day, whereas the morning of the half my head was full and it felt like it was moving in to my chest.

I'm not advocating running with an illness if it still feels serious, but it won't do any harm to run a couple of miles close to home if you've already been through two weeks of it and it's starting to feel a little better. The point to all of this is, you'll find people giving all sorts of advice on here. You know your own body - you should know when it feels right to run and when it feels right to rest.

greenb

KillianByrne wrote: »

Well done on your achievements!

I've achieved very little yet! Well done to you on your own achievements . Reading last years mentored thread and following your and others amazing progress was one of the main inspirations for me getting into this lark in the first place!

Laois_Man

Greenb. I only started running nearly 10 months ago too and I've been injured for 16 days now and little or no sign of much improvement. I'd swap your complaint for mine any day!

Darren 83

Laois_Man wrote: »

Greenb. I only started running nearly 10 months ago too and I've been injured for 16 days now and little or no sign of much improvement. I'd swap your complaint for mine any day!

Did you see a physio yet

Laois_Man

Darren 83 wrote: »

Did you see a physio yet

Yeah but the physio I was seeing last time is out of the country and doesnt get back til mid May so I've had to get another one. Couldn't get a suitable appointment til next Monday :-/

Darren 83

Laois_Man wrote: »

Yeah but the physio I was seeing last time is out of the country and doesnt get back til mid May so I've had to get another one. Couldn't get a suitable appointment til next Monday :-/

did the previous physio know what was wrong

Laois_Man

Darren 83 wrote: »

did the previous physio know what was wrong

A disc irratating the sciatic nerve.....but it feels a bit different this time now! But I'd say it's the same.

guinang

Laois_Man wrote: »

A disc irratating the sciatic nerve.....but it feels a bit different this time now! But I'd say it's the same.

Wow. Should you be running? What has your physio recommended?

I suffer from prolapsed discs in my neck (c6 & c7). Got pretty bad when my kids were born. Apparently hanging over cots is not a goid remedy I was told by a neurologist to give up impact sports immediately. I don't even pay 5 a side now. As was explained to me, once the membrane is ruptured it won't really repair. I reckon if my issue was in the lumbar, my neurologist may have recommended no running. Obviously the neck doesn't take as much pressure as the lumbar might in exercise.

Hope it works out for you soon. Waiting for that painless day is pretty hellish. Do take care of it - fusing the bones in the spine is a bitch to come back from.

shortstuff!

Laois_Man wrote: »

Yeah but the physio I was seeing last time is out of the country and doesnt get back til mid May so I've had to get another one. Couldn't get a suitable appointment til next Monday :-/

Best of luck on Monday, hopefully they'll be able to work their magic on you

shortstuff!

greenb wrote: »

Two questions: 1) would it really do me any harm to start doing a few easy runs with a chesty cough...and 2) how much is two weeks and counting with no running going to set me back...I'm panicking!

I would hold off until you are over the worst of it and then go for a very slow 3mile recovery run to test the water, if you feel better the next day, repeat, if not take some more rest... I think 6miles was a bit much to start off with returning from sickness

You won't have lost any fitness over the couple weeks, legs have a way of remembering! But take it handy coming back... Great mileage by the way, I'm slowly building up to avg 25miles by the start of the DCM plan

shortstuff!

I think running has turned me into a morning person:O I usually set the alarm for 6.30 and snooze but saw the sun this morning and thought great I'll get up for a quick run before work..only it's a REST day and they must be observed:( Legs better thank me for it on my Lsr tomorrow! Got up anyway and cleaned the house, maybe I'm coming down with something?!

rob w

Laois_Man wrote: »

A disc irratating the sciatic nerve.....but it feels a bit different this time now! But I'd say it's the same.

I suffered with really bad sciatica in 2010 for the best part of a year, exact same problem as that. It was agony to stand/sit/lie down and once in one of those positions i didnt move out of it for a while.

Was going to a physio every week, she recommended acupuncture, which i had never tried, but i would have done anything to get rid of that pain, shortly after starting the acupuncture the pain started to fade, dont know 100% if thats what it was down to, but it might be worth a shot. Get the odd twinge every now and then but try to be very cautious about my back as I dont think i can go through that again, Hope you get sorted though laois man, i know what its like!

greenb

shortstuff! wrote: »

Got up anyway and cleaned the house,

What part of "rest day" don't you understand!:D

greenb

Laois_Man wrote: »

Greenb. I only started running nearly 10 months ago too and I've been injured for 16 days now and little or no sign of much improvement. I'd swap your complaint for mine any day!

I bet you would!......must be incredibly frustrating. Hope you see big improvement soon and can get back to it.

ecoli

career_move wrote: »

When you're doing this one you can also stretch one of the smaller calf muscles by keeping your back straight and extending your knee forward over the foot of the leg thats nearer the wall

If you keep the back leg straight you are stretching the Gastronemius (The smaller of the two muscles believe it or not). By bending the knee you are taking this muscle out of action as the muscle connects just above the back of the knee.

By bending the knee you are working on the soleus. As the Gastronemius actually covers the majority of the soleus sometimes it can be hard for people to differentiate which muscle the pain is coming from

ecoli

greenb wrote: »

Couldn't have dreamed of writing this a year ago, when the most exercise I'd had in 25 years was a short walk to the pub.

The last few months I've been averaging 25 to 30 miles a week, just building a base before marathon training. Now I've had a bad sinus infection for the past couple of weeks and have only got out for 1 6 mile run last week and none this week.......I'm losing my mind. Am really tempted to go out again but this infection is not clearing up and I still have some chest congestion...have been told symptoms below the neck, don't run.

Two questions: 1) would it really do me any harm to start doing a few easy runs with a chesty cough...and 2) how much is two weeks and counting with no running going to set me back...I'm panicking!

General rule is if its above the neck you are fine to run, anything below and best to rest up

You may be panicking but which is worse an extra week now or get back out training and then miss another 2-3 weeks of a relapse. Be smart about things and pick your battles. Your body will not forget the mileage that is put in, just may take a little time to remind it

career_move

ecoli wrote: »

If you keep the back leg straight you are stretching the Gastronemius (The smaller of the two muscles believe it or not). By bending the knee you are taking this muscle out of action as the muscle connects just above the back of the knee.

By bending the knee you are working on the soleus. As the Gastronemius actually covers the majority of the soleus sometimes it can be hard for people to differentiate which muscle the pain is coming from

If you keep the back leg straight and extend the knee of the front leg forward over your front foot does that not stretch one of the smaller calf muscles?

ecoli

career_move wrote: »

If you keep the back leg straight and extend the knee of the front leg forward over your front foot does that not stretch one of the smaller calf muscles?

I assume you mean this sort of action yes?



This does stretch calf muscles also at the muscle insertion point of both calf muscles mentioned previously

career_move

ecoli wrote: »

I assume you mean this sort of action yes?



This does stretch calf muscles also at the muscle insertion point of both calf muscles mentioned previously

No that's not really what I mean. Front foot should be flat on the ground and the right knee extended forward so that your almost starting to genuflect. But you have to straighten your back to get the best stretch

Laois_Man

guinang wrote: »

Wow. Should you be running? What has your physio recommended?

Physio said it wasn't too serious and actually encouraged me to get back running! And I was OK for 8 months til now!

rob w wrote: »

I suffered with really bad sciatica in 2010 for the best part of a year, exact same problem as that. It was agony to stand/sit/lie down and once in one of those positions i didnt move out of it for a while.

Was going to a physio every week, she recommended acupuncture, which i had never tried, but i would have done anything to get rid of that pain, shortly after starting the acupuncture the pain started to fade, dont know 100% if thats what it was down to, but it might be worth a shot. Get the odd twinge every now and then but try to be very cautious about my back as I dont think i can go through that again, Hope you get sorted though laois man, i know what its like!

My pain isn't as bad as yours was thankfully.....but enough to make running impossible. Thanks for the acupuncture tip. I'll mention it to this physio on Monday and see what he says.