North Korea v USA Mega Merge.

Antar Bolaeisk

zonEEE wrote: »

This could be it!

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2013/03/30/0200000000AEN20130330000500315.HTML

Evidently his advisers forgot to mention that they were already at war so he was just stating the obvious.

Capt'n Midnight

Manic Moran wrote: »

Oh, I don't know. You mean when everyone is out in the field with blank ammunition, and when various reports could be confused with exercise events and not real events?

This would be a good time of year to attack as well. Cold enough that the fields are frozen and good for maneuver, but with a chance that they'll melt soon so counterattacks will be more difficult.

But the trick is usually to do it as a surprise rather than shout it to the heavens before hand.

But it could be a double bluff

But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool. You would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

Thrill

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Ambassador-ordered-to-get-ready-for-possible-evacu-30203078.html

Thailand orders Ambassador to ROK to prepare for possible evacuation of nationals amid DPRK threats.

The emergency plan includes the setting up of temporary shelters in places like Busan and the arranging of flights and ships to transport Thais, mostly contract workers, to Japan if hostilities really break out, Pademchai said.

This is the second country I've read about that has done this.


Something I meant to post about earlier was Kaesong. Kaesong is an industrial complex run jointly by both North and South Korea and is a source of hard currency for the North.

From what I've read, it has stayed open even when tensions on the Korean peninsula are at its worst. It has been used during the current tensions as an indication by many that this dispute is all bluster from Kim, the fact that the complex was running normally means fatty is just blowing hot air for the folks at home.

Kim has threatened to close the complex if people don't stop mentioning it.

A Reuters reporter says that

Others diplomats in Seoul over weekend expressed concern to me about their nationals in ROK but all agreed red line is closure of Kaesong.

Looks like people are a little more worried about Kim jr than I thought.

Thrill

S. Korean President Park tells senior officials its response will be 'strong and swift' if N. Korea attacks

S. Korean President Park says response to NK attack would be carried out without regard to political consequences

Bluster from the South.

token101

Thrill wrote: »

Bluster from the South.

Not much bluster there, if the North attack they'll be obliterated. And swiftly. The South has the US & Japan, the North's blowing smoke.

Solair

North Korea's military capabilities have to be massively overstated. I mean, this is a country that can't even manage to feed its population or keep the lights on.

If they did attempt to launch anything at US bases, I'd say they'd be on the receiving end of a massive volley of conventional weapons that would just obliterate their military infrastructure in about 10 minutes.

They're a much bigger risk for South Korea as they could potentially cause economic chaos there with relatively low tech tactics as they share a land border.

They really need to do something to get information into the people in North Korea and allow them to actually judge the situation for themselves. It's incredible that they are so brainwashed and living in such dire circumstances when their countryfolk south of the border are one of the highest tech and wealthiest countries on earth and they don't even realise this!

North Korea's military capabilities have to be massively overstated. I mean, this is a country that can't even manage to feed its population or keep the lights on.

The problem is that if you have a regime who's priority is solely existing under the constant threat (as they see it) of annihilation, then they will have no issue with sacrificing their citizens (quality of) life to support their military. It's clear that the military come first, second & third in NK everything else is a bonus.

Chop Chop

I wish they would do it already, there's nothing on the telly and I'm bored.

trickymicky

Ah well when all this is over it should make for a good medal of honour or call of duty i suppose.

Capt'n Midnight

Solair wrote: »

North Korea's military capabilities have to be massively overstated.

Have you considered the terrain ?

It's a mexican standoff, neither side could win without massive casualties. Not only do you have to win the war you also have to win the peace. It's not like East Germany where it was easy to look over the wall.

bnt

In my view, a major difference between the days of the Korean "Police Action" and now is that the USA now has both the means and the political freedom to go after the NK leadership in the event of war. I doubt China would get too worked up if a B-2 dropped a MOP on Kim Jong Un's bunker. He'd basically have to vanish entirely for the duration of the conflict. That's the risk you take when you have a "Supreme Leader": in the event of war, he becomes a target.

Celly Smunt

Bomb Dropped :eek:

Solair

pmcmahon wrote: »

Bomb Dropped :eek:

Can't find anything on any news site or twitter about this...

Think there's some trolling of twitter / false rumour spreading going on tho!

Thrill

Solair wrote: »

Can't find anything on any news site or twitter about this...

Think there's some trolling of twitter / false rumour spreading going on tho!

April fools joke, l reckon.

My name is URL

Solair wrote: »

Can't find anything on any news site or twitter about this...

Think there's some trolling of twitter / false rumour spreading going on tho!

It's April the 1st. Everything that 'happens' today is a lie

Celly Smunt

My name is URL wrote: »

It's April the 1st. Everything that 'happens' today is a lie

I didn't just have sex with your mother.Eh eh *nudge*

Thrill

South Korea plan allowing preemptive strike if any imminent launches detected

https://soundcloud.com/voa-korea/response


The stage would be set for the mother of all fcuk-ups.

Solair

Yeah it would be a bad day to pick to start a war!

The best tactic might be to air drop thousands and thousands of Samsung and LG smart phones, charged and preloaded with loads of South Korean pop culture and news updates.

Even better still, if they'd a low orbit satellite to let people use them to access the Internet !

A stealth drone to drop them into remote areas

markfinn

brianthomas wrote: »

WAR, (huh) WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?

'Dunno, sarge. Freeing slaves, maybe?'


'Absol- Well, okay.'


'Defending yourself from a totalitarian aggressor?'


'All right, I'll grant you that, but-'


'Saving civilization against a horde of-'


'It doesn't do any good in the long run is what I'm saying, Nobby, if you'd listen for five seconds together,' said Fred Colon sharply.


'Yeah, but in the long run what does, sarge?'

Rattle that sabre harder, boy!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21995224
North Korea's parliament has endorsed plans to give nuclear weapons greater prominence in the country's defences.
The move came a day after the ruling Workers' Party called for nuclear forces to be "expanded and beefed up qualitatively and quantitatively".
North Korea has said it is entering a "state of war" with the South - prompting Seoul to promise a "strong response" to aggression by the North.
The North is angry at UN sanctions following its nuclear test in February.
It is also unhappy with joint US-South Korea annual military drills.
Meanwhile, North Korea has announced it has appointed a new premier, Pak Pong-ju. He was sacked from the same post in 2007.

So Pak Pong is now smelling of roses again.

Chop Chop

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Rattle that sabre harder, boy!


So Pak Pong is now smelling of roses again.

The pong off him is something else. Seriously though, I'd love to see North Korean news at the moment, they're probably playing out a war with the aid of YouTube and showing it to the population.

Kim has brought the population to the brink with propaganda, I'm sure he could fake and overseas war with a few YouTube videos, remember North Koreans probably have no idea what YouTube is.

I do love the images of the North Koreans pointing at things.

Thrill

White House says it's not seeing 'large-scale mobilizations and positioning of forces' by North Korea

Reuters


While at the same time

US Navy shifting guided-missile destroyer in Pacific Ocean in response to ongoing threats from North Korea, officials tell NBC News

NBC

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/01/u-s-navy-warship-moving-closer-to-north-korea/

U.S. Navy warship moving closer to North Korea

The U.S. Navy is moving at least one warship closer to the North Korean coastline and more may be on the way

These deployments are aimed at monitoring North Korean military moves - in particular upcoming missile launches the U.S. believes may be happening in the coming weeks, according to a U.S. Defense Department official.

Jhcx

Chop Chop wrote: »

The pong off him is something else. Seriously though, I'd love to see North Korean news at the moment, they're probably playing out a war with the aid of YouTube and showing it to the population.

Kim has brought the population to the brink with propaganda, I'm sure he could fake and overseas war with a few YouTube videos, remember North Koreans probably have no idea what YouTube is.

I do love the images of the North Koreans pointing at things.

Just show them Red dawn. they'll be cheering and would be none the wiser cause they would cut the end out :pac:

WakeUp

Thrill wrote: »

Reuters

While at the same time

NBC

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/01/u-s-navy-warship-moving-closer-to-north-korea/

Interesting. That sbx radar is part of the US balistic missile defence system I wonder are the Americans planning on sending another signal to NK by taking out a missile in space if they test launch one and it manages to get there. Thats the most sophisticated radar the US have they used it to monitor North Korea before but with all thats going on at the moment I wonder are they going to send another signal like they sent with the B2s.

Rightwing

the yanks always seem to be looking for a war somewhere

Matt Simis

WakeUp wrote: »

Interesting. That sbx radar is part of the US balistic missile defence system I wonder are the Americans planning on sending another signal to NK by taking out a missile in space if they test launch one and it manages to get there. Thats the most sophisticated radar the US have they used it to monitor North Korea before but with all thats going on at the moment I wonder are they going to send another signal like they sent with the B2s.

Interesting idea, but that message to NK would be seen (and rightly in fairness) as an act of war and the first shot, painting them as leaping to their own defence. Which is surely exactly what they want, an excuse to fall back on later after they pummel SK back to their tech level but want to open up "negotiations" to get themselves food, money and some sort of agreement with the US.

This news report from the BBC appears to show business as usual at the border, the first sign of any (real) escalation would be this border being closed!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21992085

South Korea's president has promised a strong and swift military response to any provocation from the North.
It comes after North Korea announced it was in a ''state of war'' with its southern neighbour.
Pyongyang has also threatened to close a joint industrial complex which is a crucial source of foreign currency.
Lucy Williamson reports from the crossing into the joint industrial zone.

The_Nipper_One

RE: China getting involved.

Who's to say they wouldn't? They did so in the last Korean war, though I know it's a different kettle of fish now:

On 20 August 1950, Premier Zhou Enlai informed the United Nations that "Korea is China's neighbor... The Chinese people cannot but be concerned about a solution of the Korean question". Thus, through neutral-country diplomats, China warned that in safeguarding Chinese national security, they would intervene against the UN Command in Korea.[146] President Truman interpreted the communication as "a bald attempt to blackmail the UN", and dismissed it.[150]

Fast forward a bit with America advancing for north and:

They came out of the hills near Unsan, North Korea, blowing bugles in the dying light of day on 1 November 1950, throwing grenades and firing their "burp" guns at the surprised American soldiers of the 8th Cavalry Regiment, 1st Cavalry Division. Those who survived the initial assaults reported how shaken the spectacle of massed Chinese infantry had left them. Thousands of Chinese had attacked from the north, northwest, and west against scattered U.S. and South Korean (Republic of Korea or ROK) units moving deep into North Korea. The Chinese seemed to come out of nowhere as they swarmed around the flanks and over the defensive positions of the surprised United Nations (UN) troops. Within hours the ROK 15th Regiment on the 8th Cavalry�s right flank collapsed, while the 1st and 2d Battalions of the 8th Cavalry fell back in disarray into the city of Unsan. By morning, with their positions being overrun and their guns falling silent, the men of the 8th Cavalry tried to withdraw, but a Chinese roadblock to their rear forced them to abandon their artillery, and the men took to the hills in small groups. Only a few scattered survivors made it back to tell their story.

It then led to a stalemate, leading to this statement:

On this day in 1950, President Harry S. Truman announces during a press conference that he is prepared to authorize the use of atomic weapons in order to achieve peace in Korea. At the time of Truman's announcement, communist China had joined North Korean forces in their attacks on United Nations troops, including U.S. soldiers, who were trying to prevent communist expansion into South Korea.

Wouldnt be as easy to say something like that now that China has WMD's itself.

I'm sorry if ive misread anything in this history to anyone who knows more about it

Thrill

WakeUp wrote: »

Interesting. That sbx radar is part of the US balistic missile defence system

It must also be one of its strangest looking vessels....

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/attachments/naval-warfare/15439d1248875577-18-billion-game-sbx.jpg

China mobilizing troops, jets near N. Korean border, US officials say

According to the officials, the PLA has stepped up military mobilization in the border region with North Korea since mid-March, including troop movements and warplane activity.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/01/china-mobilizing-troops-jets-near-n-korean-border/

WakeUp

Matt Simis wrote: »

Interesting idea, but that message to NK would be seen (and rightly in fairness) as an act of war and the first shot, painting them as leaping to their own defence. Which is surely exactly what they want, an excuse to fall back on later after they pummel SK back to their tech level but want to open up "negotiations" to get themselves food, money and some sort of agreement with the US.

I would think that too in normal times. I would agree they would prefer be attacked first as it would mean their defence pac with China kicks in and China is obliged to get involved, though its different now as the North has openly said its in a state of war with the South and they have threatened the US which includes their bases in Japan. NK put a satelite into space a while ago and the tragectory of that rocket in its various stages brought it over South Korea in parts and directly over Japan. It was a weather satelite but the US reckon they were testing long range missile capability.

Because of the way things are at the moment if the North fires another missile/rocket even if they say its a test and its tragectory is something like that then I wonder if it will last long in the sky I wouldnt think it would. By moving the sbx they might be trying to discourage the north Koreans from doing anymore tests its presence might be enough to put them off maybe call their bluff. The US have enough eyes on NK with the sophisticated radar on their destroyers and some cruisers then you have satelites and UAVs and things like that moving the sbx into place isnt really required unless they are very serious about something. And it costs a fortune to move around up to a hundred million dollars depending on where it is. Its 4 times faster than any other radar and the best at early detection and crucially identifying if a missile is a dummy or hot in its midboost phase which is just before it enters space and for about twenty mins after that when decoys and such are released to disguise the warhead re-entering the atmosphere in its terminal phase. I dunno its just interesting they are moving that radar into play if all they want to do is track the launch for data purposes suppose they might be just making sure incase of whatever but it is interesting.

Thrill wrote: »

It must also be one of its strangest looking vessels....

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/attachments/naval-warfare/15439d1248875577-18-billion-game-sbx.jpg

A giant 25 story golf ball or a hot air balloon their cutting edge radar tech an incredible piece of kit.

Matt Simis

Thrill wrote: »

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/01/china-mobilizing-troops-jets-near-n-korean-border/

Foxnews though, who also just put out a video about the addition of the Littoral Combat Ship to the region, with the title "next-get battleship joins Pacific Fleet". LCS are smaller ships designed for close-coastal combat and anti-symmetric warfare. Its not a battleship or even close to one..

LCS, USS Freedom as moved to the "Pacific" presumably enroute to Korea theatre:

Battleship, USS Iowa:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg/220px-BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg

Presume the Super Carriers are the largest operating there these days.

Remmy

I wonder do South Korea have any of those "Iron Dome" missile defence systems set up at the border? They seem to do a good job of taking down lower trajectory rockets.

Amirani

The effectiveness of missile defence systems is very much in doubt. Certainly, South Korea would be unable to stop any sort of sophisticated warhead from hitting the Seoul/Incheon region.

The only way to stop that at present is via either diplomatic means or pre-emptive strikes on missile launch facilities. Neither of these seem particularly feasible at the moment.

Manic Moran

NiallSparky wrote: »

The effectiveness of missile defence systems is very much in doubt. Certainly, South Korea would be unable to stop any sort of sophisticated warhead from hitting the Seoul/Incheon region.

Although technically true, I don't think the CO of a US destroyer or Patriot battery in the area is likely to wait on the formalities of getting ROK permission to intercept an inbound ballistic missile before engaging it. They've a pretty good hit ratio in tests, and I can't imagine they'll only fire one missile at a target.

Lord Trollington

The Russians are staying fairly quiet in all of this. I wonder what their view is on the whole thing?!

opinion guy

Lord Trollington wrote: »

The Russians are staying fairly quiet in all of this. I wonder what their view is on the whole thing?!

I think its fair to say they are a bit worried:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21974381
I think the Russians, unusually, don't have much swing on this one and are just hoping it calms down given how close it is to them

gallag

The uk built six type 45 destroyers that would be pretty handy out there, can sometimes see one docked in belfast. Cost £6billion and were prioritised over the new carriers. Just the job for shooting **** out of the sky.

Montroseee

Nearly 40 k US troops stationed in South Korea, a lot more than I thought there was.

Strawberry Fields

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21999193

more posturing from kimmy.

Mr Benevolent

gallag wrote: »

The uk built six type 45 destroyers that would be pretty handy out there, can sometimes see one docked in belfast. Cost £6billion and were prioritised over the new carriers. Just the job for shooting **** out of the sky.

What a phallic destroyer. Looks ridiculous.

Amirani

Strawberry Fields wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21999193

more posturing from kimmy.

It really has to be posturing. Surely if he was hoping to produce weapons that would enable him to take South Korea he wouldn't be mentioning this stuff.


The best chance the North has of winning a war is using surprise attacks. The chances of success lessen with each additional US warship in proximity.

Strawberry Fields

it says it will take a year to get back up and running making bombs.

An act of defiance as it was taken out in 2007 because of worries over it.

gallag

Mr Benevolent wrote: »

What a phallic destroyer. Looks ridiculous.

Most advanced war ship in the world, dont think looks come into it but I have seen it in the flesh and its pretty cool looking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8snXN4Ul48

Lord Trollington

Reading up some facts about NK. What a bunch of nutjobs they really are.

Lexe

nocoverart wrote: »

I want this to happen! I know that makes me a bad Human, but I feel guilty about it. So that makes it OK, yeah? now go and blow the sh1t out of each other

I hope this is a joke. Either way it's not very tasteful to talk about nations blowing the **** out of each other.
North Korea is despicable because of it's leader, think of all the millions of poor people in North Korea living under this dictatorship. Not only have they already suffered from starvation and complete oppression, they possibly are facing war.
Think of the millions of people in South Korea, all the young men who may have to go to war to defend themselves against this nutjob if he carries out his threats.
It's a sad frightening situation and the only good that can come out of this is that the plight of the North Koreans is highlighted in the media and something is done to improve the terrible conditions that they have been enduring.

Banjo String

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22002288


latest from BBC.

The UN are getting extremely worried about things it seems.

Montroseee

Lexe wrote: »

I hope this is a joke. Either way it's not very tasteful to talk about nations blowing the **** out of each other.
North Korea is despicable because of it's leader, think of all the millions of poor people in North Korea living under this dictatorship. Not only have they already suffered from starvation and complete oppression, they possibly are facing war.
Think of the millions of people in South Korea, all the young men who may have to go to war to defend themselves against this nutjob if he carries out his threats.
It's a sad frightening situation and the only good that can come out of this is that the plight of the North Koreans is highlighted in the media and something is done to improve the terrible conditions that they have been enduring.

There is also a vast amount of endangered wildlife (over 60 species) that could be wiped out with war. Ironically, these different species reside in the DMZ and their is current talks to make it a protected site. Would be just another devastating impact of the re-ignition of the Korean War.

LindowMan

gallag wrote: »

Most advanced war ship in the world, dont think looks come into it but I have seen it in the flesh and its pretty cool looking.

The Royal Navy's new Daring-class Type 45 is also the world's most powerful destroyer and the biggest ever operated by the RN. In an "intensive attack" a single Type 45 could simultaneously track, engage and destroy more targets than five of the previous Type 42 destroyers operating together

It doesn't look heavily armed but it packs a bigger punch than the great battleships of the 20th century. That's because powerful weapons come in smaller packages nowadays.

It has also been suggested that the SAMPSON radar of the Type 45 is capable of tracking an object the size of a cricket ball travelling at three times the speed of sound and then shooting it down. It will be almost impossible for the enemy to hit one of these things.

LindowMan

gallag wrote: »

The uk built six type 45 destroyers that would be pretty handy out there, can sometimes see one docked in belfast. Cost £6billion and were prioritised over the new carriers. Just the job for shooting **** out of the sky.

Here's an actual photo of Daring-class destroyer HMS Dragon, which you showed an artist's impression of. She has a big red dragon painted on either side of her bows: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KpiojoAHC1s/TmA4LYtS_3I/AAAAAAAAGw0/8Xo1WekzbKs/s1600/110831-2.jpg

Like the other ships of her class, she is not one to mess with. She can, for example, hit targets throughout Europe and even North Africa whilst sitting prettily at home in Portsmouth Harbour. She is Tomahawk-capable and, like the other ships of her class, bristles with 96 missiles rather than the 48 that each of the the old Sheffield-class Type 42 destroyers carried. Her torpedoes can blow enemy submarines out of the water.

The unusual look of HMS Dragon and her sister ships of the Daring-class is as a result of sleekly designed straight edges and superstructure free from clutter. This is designed to give the ship a low radar cross section - commonly called stealth features. Speculation by the press suggests that this design gives the ship the radar signature of a fishing boat in order to fool the enemy!

HMS Dragon was commissioned on the 20th April 2012 and is affiliated with the city of Cardiff, the Royal Thames Yacht Club, The Worshipful Company of Plaisterers, The Welsh Livery Guild and the Royal Navy recognised Sea Scout Groups of Barry Scout District.

Her Commanding Officer is Iain Lower and her motto is: "We yield but to St George." She is the tenth RN ship to be called HMS Dragon, the last being a lightcruiser which was scuttled off Normandy in 1944.

Allround Predator

LindowMan wrote: »

Here's an actual photo of Daring-class destroyer HMS Dragon, which you showed an artist's impression of. She has a big red dragon painted on either side of her bows: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KpiojoAHC1s/TmA4LYtS_3I/AAAAAAAAGw0/8Xo1WekzbKs/s1600/110831-2.jpg

Like the other ships of her class, she is not one to mess with. She can, for example, hit targets throughout Europe and even North Africa whilst sitting prettily at home in Portsmouth Harbour. She is Tomahawk-capable and, like the other ships of her class, bristles with 96 missiles rather than the 48 that each of the the old Sheffield-class Type 42 destroyers carried. Her torpedoes can blow enemy submarines out of the water.

The unusual look of HMS Dragon and her sister ships of the Daring-class is as a result of sleekly designed straight edges and superstructure free from clutter. This is designed to give the ship a low radar cross section - commonly called stealth features. Speculation by the press suggests that this design gives the ship the radar signature of a fishing boat in order to fool the enemy!

HMS Dragon was commissioned on the 20th April 2012 and is affiliated with the city of Cardiff, the Royal Thames Yacht Club, The Worshipful Company of Plaisterers, The Welsh Livery Guild and the Royal Navy recognised Sea Scout Groups of Barry Scout District.

Her Commanding Officer is Iain Lower and her motto is: "We yield but to St George." She is the tenth RN ship to be called HMS Dragon, the last being a lightcruiser which was scuttled off Normandy in 1944.

That's a class looking ship, the Dragon on it looks cool, sort of intimidating!