North Korea v USA Mega Merge.

BlatentCheek

old hippy wrote: »

Nobody saw the release of Aung San Suu Kyi happening so fast and Burma making its tentative first steps towards democracy. Albeit it faulty and slow but it's now happening. Burma was an isolated closed country, with its own gulags and oppressed people. But it happended through international pressure, dialogue and publicising its plight.

I think comparisons to Burma are optimistic. The junta there never sought nuclear weapons, never acted in such an aggressive way towards its neighbours and the regime was never based on an insanely OTT cult of personality around a stalinist dynasty.
For all its evils the Myanmar junta only put Aun Sang Suu Kyi under house arrest; a transition to democracy there is now possible because opposition people and organisations exist to potentially create a pluralist polity.
NK on the other hand would just have squabbles between its top generals and secret police chiefs over who gets to succeed Kim if there was any question of an end to the current regime.
When change comes to NK it's almost certainly going to be violent.

BlatentCheek

old hippy wrote: »

I can tell you this, Japan will not acquire nuclear weapons. There is no wish for that in Japan. Neither amongst the people or the politicians. They don't even have a proper army, rather they rely on their scaled down defence forces and the protection that the US offers - despite protestations about the Okinawa base.

I'd bet on Japan changing the pacifist elements of its constitution and substantially rearming within the next twenty years, if not ten.
Every power in Asia is tooling up in a big way and Japan won't consider the US sufficient reassurance forever, particularly if US defence cuts continue.
I doubt they'll bother with nukes but their post-war pacifism won't last

old hippy

BlatentCheek wrote: »

I'd bet on Japan changing the pacifist elements of its constitution and substantially rearming within the next twenty years, if not ten.
Every power in Asia is tooling up in a big way and Japan won't consider the US sufficient reassurance forever, particularly if US defence cuts continue.
I doubt they'll bother with nukes but they're post-war pacifism won't last

It's true, there are right wing elements who seek Japan's re-emergence as a more military power in the region but they are few and far between. The people won't have it.

666irishguy

old hippy wrote: »

I can tell you this, Japan will not acquire nuclear weapons. There is no wish for that in Japan. Neither amongst the people or the politicians. They don't even have a proper army, rather they rely on their scaled down defence forces and the protection that the US offers - despite protestations about the Okinawa base.

What is the something that needs to be done, in your view? I believe in dialogue and negotiation and subtle pressure from China. Wishy washy to some, I'm sure but a lot more healthy.

The very strict Self Defense aspect of the Japanese military has slowly been picked apart in the last decade. They have removed the restrictions on foreign military operations, have acquired air to air refueling tankers for fighter jets that could let them operate well outside the home islands and are building enormous helicopter carriers that should be in violation of the defensive weapons only act of their constitution, yet still they are nearing completion as we speak. To say they are not a proper military is untrue IMO. They have a fairly small army compared to their neighbours, but have a large airforce with the latest aircraft and one of the most powerful Navies in the world, minus submarines and aircraft carriers, but with the Chinese building carriers, I have no doubt they are something they will sooner or later bend the rules to acquire also and in time they will scrap the Self Defense Force mentality. There are the first voices in both South Korea and Japan advocating a deterrent of their own and who's to say that if we see few more tantrums like this one, people in both nations won't begin to ask if they really do need their own nuclear weapons.

What's to be done with Kim? I personally think stopping the aid and essentially cutting him adrift might bring the whole show down on his head eventually. The other option is to basically go to war and try and end the madness as quickly as possible, that would have to be done sooner or later before they do build a viable nuclear missile. Not even the Chinese would be able to reign him in once that would happen.
Either way the price in human life will have to be paid in the near future or down the road in what could be a bigger mess or in the slow suffering of the average North Korean.

old hippy

Stopping all aid, is an answer. It will still result in great hardships, to say the least but if negotiations fail then maybe it is the only alternative.

Certainly war is not the way.

Thrill

N. Korea issues ‘ultimatum’ to the South, warns of ‘immediate retaliation’ reports

FLASH: North Korea to start military actions immediately: KCNA

NK CRISIS: BREAKING NEWS - NORTH KOREA ISSUES 'ULTIMATUM' TO SOUTH KOREA, WARNS OF 'IMMEDIATE RETALIATION'. RT_COM

Breaking: DPRK warns of pending military strike

Is this it??

Or more Kim BS?

ballsymchugh

old hippy wrote: »

Stopping all aid, is an answer. It will still result in great hardships, to say the least but if negotiations fail then maybe it is the only alternative.

Certainly war is not the way.

i wouldn't be so sure. the party loyalists and the military will still get enough food while anyone who doesn't tow the party line will be sent off to the 're-education' camps to live out their days.

everyone walking around pyongyang is a potential secret policeman, seeing it as their duty to inform if they see something out of the ordinary. they'll still get whatever food the collective farms will produce.

the famine in the mid 90s didn't have much of an effect on the elite, and there was no noticeable opposition arising out of it either.

opinion guy

ballsymchugh wrote: »

i wouldn't be so sure. the party loyalists and the military will still get enough food while anyone who doesn't tow the party line will be sent off to the 're-education' camps to live out their days.

everyone walking around pyongyang is a potential secret policeman, seeing it as their duty to inform if they see something out of the ordinary. they'll still get whatever food the collective farms will produce.

the famine in the mid 90s didn't have much of an effect on the elite, and there was no noticeable opposition arising out of it either.

Kim is certainly making his RDA's anyhow :v

Yurt

BREAKING: 'Dozens of people seriously injured' after 2 explosions near finish of Boston Marathon

It's begun !

Thrill

Looks like more BS from Kim.

In 'ultimatum,' N. Korea vows blitz attack on S. Korea

SEOUL/WASHINGTON, April 16 (Yonhap) -- North Korea's military on Tuesday issued an "ultimatum" saying it would launch retaliation against South Korea without warning if "anti-North Korean" activities continue in the South.

"The supreme command of the Korean People's Army Tuesday issued an ultimatum to the South Korean puppet group," Pyongyang's official news agency, KCNA, said in an English-version article.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2013/04/16/0200000000AEN20130416000300315.HTML

He's become a yawnfest at this stage and best ignored.

old hippy

ballsymchugh wrote: »

i wouldn't be so sure. the party loyalists and the military will still get enough food while anyone who doesn't tow the party line will be sent off to the 're-education' camps to live out their days.

everyone walking around pyongyang is a potential secret policeman, seeing it as their duty to inform if they see something out of the ordinary. they'll still get whatever food the collective farms will produce.

the famine in the mid 90s didn't have much of an effect on the elite, and there was no noticeable opposition arising out of it either.

That's it, exactly. Of course there is opposition but it is hushed and fearful. And hardly surprising, too, given what happens to perceived enemies of the state.

I don't have the answers, I'm not a politician nor a diplomat. I do despair at the situation, of course. It's just all this talk of war is un-nerving and the young bucks here, the wargasm addicts with their appetite for destruction and the "we" have to do this and "we" have to do that...

I fear for mankind, sometimes. And not just from the machinations of Pyongyang

opinion guy

old hippy wrote: »

That's it, exactly. Of course there is opposition but it is hushed and fearful. And hardly surprising, too, given what happens to perceived enemies of the state.

I don't have the answers, I'm not a politician nor a diplomat. I do despair at the situation, of course. It's just all this talk of war is un-nerving and the young bucks here, the wargasm addicts with their appetite for destruction and the "we" have to do this and "we" have to do that...

I fear for mankind, sometimes. And not just from the machinations of Pyongyang

I get where you are coming from but there are some problems you just can't hug away. Sanctions etc have failed in NK - only the people suffer and it has not stopped their nuclear programs

old hippy

old hippy wrote: »

That's it, exactly. Of course there is opposition but it is hushed and fearful. And hardly surprising, too, given what happens to perceived enemies of the state.

I don't have the answers, I'm not a politician nor a diplomat. I do despair at the situation, of course. It's just all this talk of war is un-nerving and the young bucks here, the wargasm addicts with their appetite for destruction and the "we" have to do this and "we" have to do that...

I fear for mankind, sometimes. And not just from the machinations of Pyongyang

Slowly having a few million more die through "famine" and aid getting cut off isn't a preferable outcome IMO. There's some who love a bloody good war, there's some who can see that the status quo probably isn't much better even in the medium term.

Yurt

Yurt wrote: »

BREAKING: 'Dozens of people seriously injured' after 2 explosions near finish of Boston Marathon

It's begun !

That sounds so unlikely to be NK inspired, more likely a local nutter!

scamalert

yeah its too boring now,everyday new threats,just waste of air coming from the chubby.I wonder how much intelligence US have where the little leader travels and stays most the time,as better option is to drop some shells on one area where most of them gather and see who would step up after kims generation is wiped out,then maybe drop some fliers with a peace sign or smth to let people know they are free.

CiaranK

Panorama is just starting on BBC1 now for anyone interested

o1s1n

CiaranK wrote: »

Panorama is just starting on BBC1 now for anyone interested

Was really looking forward to watching it and now I can't switch off BBC News!

ballsymchugh

john sweeney's tour guides are up sh1t creek now, seeing that he got away from them to have a wander around the hotel.

opinion guy

Holy F**k they have a subway ?:eek:

_Kaiser_

opinion guy wrote: »

Holy F**k they have a subway ?:eek:

And hospitals without patients... hmm

ballsymchugh

opinion guy wrote: »

Holy F**k they have a subway ?:eek:

yep, 2 lines according to the maps. you get taken from one station to the next on the tour. the stations are very grand though. huge paintings and chandelier type lighting.

some rumours say that there are only 2 working stations, and the passengers are mainly actors!

ciano1

Really reminded me of the VICE documentary!

old hippy

opinion guy wrote: »

Holy F**k they have a subway ?:eek:

I knew that already. And get this, there's a spanking spic and span station in the DMZ that has a pristine train service to Pyongyang. Except it's never been used. There's also a city you can see from the DMZ that's all shiny and impressive - and it's empty. Lot's of shiny showpieces; functional but not always in use.

ballsymchugh

old hippy wrote: »

I knew that already. And get this, there's a spanking spic and span station in the DMZ that has a pristine train service to Pyongyang. Except it's never been used. There's also a city you can see from the DMZ that's all shiny and impressive - and it's empty. Lot's of shiny showpieces; functional but not always in use.

just like the mayday stadium. the biggest capacity stadium in the world, and used just for the mass games in the autumn.
there's three huge stadiums built in a proximity that would be closer than croker to lansdowne road. one of them isn't used at all.

123balltv

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

And hospitals without patients... hmm

The patients leave every afternoon to socialise :eek:

scamalert

123balltv wrote: »

The patients leave every afternoon to socialise :eek:

Speaking from the soft side youd have to feel sorry for every person living down there,in one documentary on you tube i think from 2008 ,in one of the places the guy was visiting there was this old guard,security guy scoring for some flu meds from tourists.Its all shiny and clean for tourist attraction,but when it comes to ordinary people god help you there if you get sick or starving to death,just because some nut family is ruling with the iron fist and fear all the people have to pretend or make themselves believe its for the best. :cool:

Dublin Red Devil

Bombs go off in Boston. If it's NK we have war

old hippy

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

Bombs go off in Boston. If it's NK we have war

Ugh, disgusting. Disguise your glee.

It's nothing to do with the situation in NK :mad:

Weathering

old hippy wrote: »

Ugh, disgusting. Disguise your glee.

It's nothing to do with the situation in NK :mad:

I agree it's highly nk is involed but it can't be 100pc dismissed. No one knows at this early stage

old hippy

Weathering wrote: »

I agree it's highly nk is involed but it can't be 100pc dismissed. No one knows at this early

It's not NK, ok? Will the wargasm addicts calm down? Jesus :mad:

Weathering

old hippy wrote: »

It's not NK, ok? Will the wargasm addicts calm down? Jesus :mad:

What. That was my first post. I ain't seeking wars or having a wargasm you cheeky fool. I said nothing can be ruled out even though it's highly unlikely its nk. Learn english and tone down the attitude

old hippy

Weathering wrote: »

What. That was my first post. I ain't seeking wars or having a wargasm you cheeky fool. I said nothing can be ruled out even though it's highly unlikely its nk. Learn english and tone down the attitude

This is your post - before you jumped in just now & edited it. Perhaps you should brush up on the language. Or better still, think before you drink before you post.

"I agree it's highly nk is involed but it can't be 100pc dismissed. No one knows at this early"

Weathering

old hippy wrote: »

This is your post - before you jumped in just now & edited it. Perhaps you should brush up on the language. Or better still, think before you drink before you post.

"I agree it's highly nk is involed but it can't be 100pc dismissed. No one knows at this early"

I left out the word "stage". You are a fool. A cheeky ignorant fool. Rid society of your dumb attacks in future please

Sonics2k

Weathering wrote: »

I left out the word "stage". You are a fool. A cheeky ignorant fool. Rid society of your dumb attacks in future please

Well that's a totally justified reaction.

Also, adding the word "stage" to that sentence doesn't help it make sense.

old hippy

Weathering wrote: »

I left out the word "stage". You are a fool. A cheeky ignorant fool. Rid society of your dumb attacks in future please

That improves your argument no end, doesn't it?

Ignorance and foolishness is posting and drinking at the same time. More so on emotive and important topics like this.

You left out several words and mangled your grammar beyond recognition & yet have the temerity to scold me on my command of the language? :rolleyes:

Back on topic before you really embarrass yourself, I beg you.

Weathering

Sonics2k wrote: »

Well that's a totally justified reaction.

Also, adding the word "stage" to that sentence doesn't help it make sense.

No one knows who is responsible for the bombs at this early stage. I don't where the problem in trying to understand that is..

God,I said it's highly unlikely nk is involved but it can't be dismissed either. I apologise for having a different opinion. I didn't realise it would result in attacks and accusations of being warmonger and stupid

COYW

opinion guy wrote: »

Holy F**k they have a subway ?:eek:

And factories with no production and hospitals without patients, what a crazy place! I would love to visit it.

Weathering

old hippy wrote: »

That improves your argument no end, doesn't it?

Ignorance and foolishness is posting and drinking at the same time. More so on emotive and important topics like this.

You left out several words and mangled your grammar beyond recognition & yet have the temerity to scold me on my command of the language? :rolleyes:

Back on topic before you really embarrass yourself, I beg you.

My argument?? That's where we differ,I have an opinion and you have an argument. Sums you up really. The day I feel embarrassed by an old hippy is day hell freezes over.

By saying north korea can't be completely dismissed EVEN tho I think and said it's highly unlikely that they are you called me a warmonger. You're a joke. Continue embarrassing yourself,I couldn't really care mr.jump the gun

old hippy

Weathering wrote: »

No one knows who is responsible for the bombs at this early stage. I don't where the problem in trying to understand that is..

God,I said it's highly unlikely nk is involved but it can't be dismissed either. I apologise for having a different opinion. I didn't realise it would result in attacks and accusations of being warmonger and stupid

Ok, this is what you actually posted in your original post:

"I agree it's highly nk is involed but it can't be 100pc dismissed. No one knows at this early"

Do you see the difference between that & what you say now? See how people might find it confusing?

Now that that's all cleared up - yes, of course it can't be dismissed. In the same way, neither should Mossad, CIA, PLO, Iran, Iraq, etc etc...

It's not NK. It's really, really not.

old hippy

Weathering wrote: »

My argument?? That's where we differ,I have an opinion and you have an argument. Sums you up really. The day I feel embarrassed by an old hippy is day hell freezes over.

By saying north korea can't be completely dismissed EVEN tho I think and said it's highly unlikely that they are you called me a warmonger. You're a joke. Continue embarrassing yourself,I couldn't really care mr.jump the gun

See my previous reply. Other than that; I give up. Drink yourself into further muddles, for all I care. :rolleyes:

ballsymchugh

COYW wrote: »

And factories with no production and hospitals without patients, what a crazy place! I would love to visit it.

http://www.koryogroup.com/

it's well worth it.

Weathering

I can hold my hands up when I'm wrong. I didn't realise I left out "unlikely". That's why I couldn't understand. My bad

Meglamonia

Looks like you can't come in here with an opinion anymore without being attacked by certain poster(s).

old hippy

Weathering wrote: »

I can hold my hands up when I'm wrong. I didn't realise I left out "unlikely". That's why I couldn't understand. My bad

It's cool. We're cool.

old hippy

Meglamonia wrote: »

Looks like you can't come in here with an opinion anymore without being attacked by certain poster(s).

How vexing for you.

Matt Simis

Sonics2k wrote: »

Well that's a totally justified reaction.

Also, adding the word "stage" to that sentence doesn't help it make sense.

It was pretty obvious what he meant. No need emotionalise everything.

Meglamonia

old hippy wrote: »

How vexing for you.

Won't be put off by you anyway to be honest.It seems like you're just looking for an argument every post you make.

Dublin Red Devil

Why does nobody in the media even suspect North Korea

Amirani

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

Why does nobody in the media even suspect North Korea

Because that would be idiotic?

old hippy

Meglamonia wrote: »

Won't be put off by you anyway to be honest.It seems like you're just looking for an argument every post you make.

What, no flounce? I'm outraged.

Anyways, did you see the Panorama documentary? Did you find it staged? Did you buy the propaganda? And am I talking about Sweeney's propaganda or Pyongyangs?

Or should they have sent a SWAT team in, instead?