North Korea v USA Mega Merge.

Dublin Red Devil

NiallSparky wrote: »

Because that would be idiotic?

Why couldn't it have been them?

Wattle

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

Why couldn't it have been them?

Its not really North Korea's MO. Much more likely to be home grown or Arab.

Meglamonia

old hippy wrote: »

What, no flounce? I'm outraged.

Anyways, did you see the Panorama documentary? Did you find it staged? Did you buy the propaganda? And am I talking about Sweeney's propaganda or Pyongyangs?

Or should they have sent a SWAT team in, instead?

Yes,I did see it and as a poster said earlier it was fairly similar to the Vince documentary.It was fairly packed in to a 30 minute slot though would have preferred an hour.Very strange/mysterious country.

Ah will you ever cop on will you!You're like a child,what does sending in a SWAT team got to do with the Panorama tonight..

Amirani

Dublin Red Devil wrote: »

Why couldn't it have been them?

It could've been. It's just as likely though that it was the Vietnamese launching a counter-attack against the Vietnam War.

opinion guy

opinion guy wrote: »

Holy F**k they have a subway ?:eek:

As it 'foot long' subway ?

Had Panorama on pause while I went to make a cuppa and a sandwich, then the phone rang. By the time I got back to the TV, my daughter was in front of it watching the fecking Kardashians!!!! Missed a whole chunk of the documentary.

old hippy

Meglamonia wrote: »

Yes,I did see it and as a poster said earlier it was fairly similar to the Vince documentary.It was fairly packed in to a 30 minute slot though would have preferred an hour.Very strange/mysterious country.

Ah will you ever cop on will you!You're like a child,what does sending in a SWAT team got to do with the Panorama tonight..

It certainly takes a fair amount of cop to suggest an invasion and wiping out the leadership. If only I'd thought of that.

If you want to learn more about NK, there's the Barbara Demmick book I recommended earlier; Nothing to Envy. Then you'll see that there's a bit more to it than marching in and tidying up the Kim mess.

Gatling

Guarantee its home grown
My bets is on some local Gun Nut protesting gun control,

In saying that
Bomb attack in Iraq
Bomb and gun attack in somalia after new government was officially recognised by the international community,

If the person or persons is Korean god help them

ballsymchugh

old hippy wrote: »

What, no flounce? I'm outraged.

Anyways, did you see the Panorama documentary? Did you find it staged? Did you buy the propaganda? And am I talking about Sweeney's propaganda or Pyongyangs?

Or should they have sent a SWAT team in, instead?

go visit the place, and i don't mean walking to the other side of a blue hut in panmunjom. how do you feel that panorama was trying to trick us with propaganda out of interest?

old hippy

ballsymchugh wrote: »

go visit the place, and i don't mean walking to the other side of a blue hut in panmunjom. how do you feel that panorama was trying to trick us with propaganda out of interest?

I'm playing the devils advocate with the poster in question.

I'm sure the BBC coverage was their usual impartial excellence, I expect nothing less. Although maybe they went about it the wrong way.

So you've been to NK, then? Lucky you. Unfortunately, my wife has no urge to go to past the DMZ. It used to be a thing about kidnapping Japanese in the past! Also, I would have to lie about the nature of my work to get in the country & as much as I'd like to see it for myself, I wouldn't want to get in any trouble.

So, when did you go & where did you visit?

Wattle

old hippy wrote: »

It certainly takes a fair amount of cop to suggest an invasion and wiping out the leadership. If only I'd thought of that.

If you want to learn more about NK, there's the Barbara Demmick book I recommended earlier; Nothing to Envy. Then you'll see that there's a bit more to it than marching in and tidying up the Kim mess.

Yes that's an excellent book a real eye opener. Its very good on North Koreans who manage to escape and the profound shock they experience in adjusting to life in free countries. If North Koreans are ever set free virtually the whole population will need to be de-programmed as if they have been in a massive cult (which they have).

old hippy

Wattle wrote: »

Yes that's an excellent book a real eye opener. Its very good on North Koreans who manage to escape and the profound shock they experience in adjusting to life in free countries. If North Koreans are ever set free virtually the whole population will need to be de-programmed as if they have been in a massive cult (which they have).

I watched a documentary on the Jonestown massacre not so long ago & it is truly terrifying how people can be conditioned like that. And the problem with DPRK is they've had 60 years of it. Re-unification would be a seismic shock to both Koreas.

Dyr

Wattle wrote: »

Yes that's an excellent book a real eye opener. Its very good on North Koreans who manage to escape and the profound shock they experience in adjusting to life in free countries. If North Koreans are ever set free virtually the whole population will need to be de-programmed as if they have been in a massive cult (which they have).

Well lets hope that, heaven forbid, no one goes setting them free. Better to give the mentalists what they want and wait for the regime to just fall over of its own accord. Which it's been doing for the last 40 years

Brotherhood of man stuff alright.

ballsymchugh

old hippy wrote: »

I'm playing the devils advocate with the poster in question.

I'm sure the BBC coverage was their usual impartial excellence, I expect nothing less. Although maybe they went about it the wrong way.

So you've been to NK, then? Lucky you. Unfortunately, my wife has no urge to go to past the DMZ. It used to be a thing about kidnapping Japanese in the past! Also, I would have to lie about the nature of my work to get in the country & as much as I'd like to see it for myself, I wouldn't want to get in any trouble.

So, when did you go & where did you visit?

i was actually surprised that he was able to ask questions at the hospital with the camera there and not get any hassle. the guides usually just avoid anything they don't want to answer. it was a pretty accurate documentary really. the propaganda that they try to sell you actually begins when you cross into NK airspace, there was an announcement that we had crossed a line where the fearless president and his men fought off some bears! it's so laughable really. i'll attach a photo of the front page of the pyongyang times. you'll need to zoom in to read it though.

i was there in 2008, this time of year for the president's birthday. if they could build a big wall either side of the road between pyongyang and kaesong near the DMZ, they would, to prevent you seeing how desolate the place is. they may have the 4th biggest army in the world, but a lot of them are out doing menial things like pushing broken farm machinery around, cutting down trees etc.

the main cities are full of the party faithful. there won't be anything like a popular uprising for a hell of a long time. there may be some military struggles but as long as the elite are kept sweet, there's no reason why they should act. they all live in a few square miles of pyongyang, apparently the plush suburbs. if you wanted to launch something militarily, that would be a place to start!

are you a journalist? it was the only profession that the tour company wouldn't take in.

old hippy

Bambi wrote: »

Well lets hope that, heaven forbid, no one goes setting them free. Better to give the mentalists what they want and wait for the regime to just fall over of its own accord. Which it's been doing for the last 40 years

Brotherhood of man stuff alright.

And what would you do, dear?

(prepares to go round in circles, yet again)

old hippy

ballsymchugh wrote: »

i was actually surprised that he was able to ask questions at the hospital with the camera there and not get any hassle. the guides usually just avoid anything they don't want to answer. it was a pretty accurate documentary really. the propaganda that they try to sell you actually begins when you cross into NK airspace, there was an announcement that we had crossed a line where the fearless president and his men fought off some bears! it's so laughable really. i'll attach a photo of the front page of the pyongyang times. you'll need to zoom in to read it though.

i was there in 2008, this time of year for the president's birthday. if they could build a big wall either side of the road between pyongyang and kaesong near the DMZ, they would, to prevent you seeing how desolate the place is. they may have the 4th biggest army in the world, but a lot of them are out doing menial things like pushing broken farm machinery around, cutting down trees etc.

the main cities are full of the party faithful. there won't be anything like a popular uprising for a hell of a long time. there may be some military struggles but as long as the elite are kept sweet, there's no reason why they should act. they all live in a few square miles of pyongyang, apparently the plush suburbs. if you wanted to launch something militarily, that would be a place to start!

are you a journalist? it was the only profession that the tour company wouldn't take in.

Sounds fantastic - well, not fantastic, you know what I mean. I was in SK and the DMZ in 2008, as well. Around this time of year, iirc. Yes, lets say I've done some journalism and it wouldn't be a profession that would be welcomed with open arms in Pyongyang...

ballsymchugh

old hippy wrote: »

Sounds fantastic - well, not fantastic, you know what I mean. I was in SK and the DMZ in 2008, as well. Around this time of year, iirc. Yes, lets say I've done some journalism and it wouldn't be a profession that would be welcomed with open arms in Pyongyang...

it is fantastic indeed, in the worst sense of the word.

good blog here about how life goes on in NK.

http://www.koryogroup.com/blog/

Dyr

old hippy wrote: »

And what would you do, dear?

(prepares to go round in circles, yet again)

As a private individual? If my prime directive was "american intervention is always bad m'kay" I'd probably at least admit that rather than pretend that I could give a f**k about the people of north korea.

Weird eh?

old hippy

Bambi wrote: »

As a private individual? If my prime directive was "american intervention is always bad m'kay" I'd probably at least admit that rather than pretend that I could give a f**k about the people of north korea.

Weird eh?

You certainly are. Keep up with the assumptions, though. This Bambi sure doesn't change its spots; you got form for this kind of thing. Who'd a thunk it; a deer crying crocodile tears?

I care an awful deal about the people of DPRK, which is why I don't think military action is the correct or clever way forward. M'kay?

And as for US intervention? I'm fully behind John Kerry's brave trip to the region & hope that he's awoken a proper sense of responsibilty in Beijing.

Now run along, Bambi.

ballsymchugh

any chance of less condescending posts please?

bohsboy

old hippy wrote: »

Now run along, Bambi.

You're one of the most antagonising posters on boards at the moment. Your arrogance is breathtaking.

old hippy

ballsymchugh wrote: »

any chance of less condescending posts please?

I'm trying but like must be met with like.

old hippy

bohsboy wrote: »

You're one of the most antagonising posters on boards at the moment. Your arrogance is breathtaking.

Thanks for your input but I'm not here for any popularity contests. Where do you stand on the unfolding events, btw?

Gatling

Military options

All out invasion (been its Korea is it really an invasion when your the rightful citizen's of the country)

Aerial bombing campaign taking out com's and military leadership.

Specific target selection

We know there no nuclear option

Complete starvation of the population (good old fashion siege)

Meglamonia

Yeah military action is the best course,as we've seen the last 40 years negotiations are like pissing against the wind.

old hippy

Meglamonia wrote: »

Yeah military action is the best course,as we've seen the last 40 years negotiations are like pissing against the wind.

And dragging East Asia into a war that nobody wants will make a difference, will it?

Gatling

old hippy wrote: »

And dragging East Asia into a war that nobody wants will make a difference, will it?

Who doesn't want it ,

Money speaks and unification of a country is big
business,

South Korea wants it
Japan wants it
China want's it

Construction
Infrastructure
Modernisation

They all want a piece of the pie

Sonics2k

Gatling wrote: »

Who doesn't want it ,

Money speaks and unification of a country is big business

You do know the last Korean war was a disaster, right?

old hippy

Gatling wrote: »

Who doesn't want it ,

Money speaks and unification of a country is big business

China doesn't want it. South Korea doesn't want it. Japan doesn't want it. The USA doesn't want it.

This is not Iraq, this is an entirely different scenario.

Meglamonia

old hippy wrote: »

And dragging East Asia into a war that nobody wants will make a difference, will it?

I think a lot of people want it including USA themselves,sure better chance of improving the country eventually rather than negotiations.

ballsymchugh

old hippy wrote: »

And dragging East Asia into a war that nobody wants will make a difference, will it?

it really wouldn't take long. it all depends on china though.

Gatling

Sonics2k wrote: »

You do know the last Korean war was a disaster, right?

Only thanks to a massive push from China and Russia's
Military,
This would never have got this far 60years ago it they didn't get involved

old hippy

ballsymchugh wrote: »

it really wouldn't take long. it all depends on china though.

I believe (and I hope I'm correct) that China realises it has a lot to lose if it seen as weak in relation to controlling Pyongyang's tantrums.

It would do too much damage to it's inroads into the international arena of commerce and influence.

ballsymchugh

Gatling wrote: »

Only thanks to a massive push from China and Russia's
Military,
This would never have got this far 60years ago it they didn't get involved

this is true. if it wasn't for the chinese, the north would've been pushed back further, if not eradicated.

china could gain a lot from reunification if it came to it. a few commentators will go on about DPRK being a buffer zone, but other commentators say china does pretty well out of the special economic areas it set up on the border of hong kong, so could have more lucrative ones along the border of korea.

Killer Wench

NK lost its window. No belligerant language will gain attention from what happened in Boston.

Gatling

Killer Wench wrote: »

NK lost its window. No belligerant language will gain attention from what happened in Boston.

Then again it might spur them on to throw a strop and get the attention back on them

Killer Wench

They simply don't have the firepower enough to do it. He would have to do something in the continental US to achieve it.

Dyr

old hippy wrote: »

You certainly are. Keep up with the assumptions, though. This Bambi sure doesn't change its spots; you got form for this kind of thing. Who'd a thunk it; a deer crying crocodile tears?

I care an awful deal about the people of DPRK, which is why I don't think military action is the correct or clever way forward. M'kay?

And as for US intervention? I'm fully behind John Kerry's brave trip to the region & hope that he's awoken a proper sense of responsibilty in Beijing.

Now run along, Bambi.

When did I say I that the welfare of north koreans was high on my list of things that I care about?

That said, if it was, I'd be supporting a swift and comprehensive overthrowing of the current regime via the jackboot of the american imperialist warmachine.

Micky Dolenz

old hippy wrote: »

You certainly are. Keep up with the assumptions, though. This Bambi sure doesn't change its spots; you got form for this kind of thing. Who'd a thunk it; a deer crying crocodile tears?

I care an awful deal about the people of DPRK, which is why I don't think military action is the correct or clever way forward. M'kay?

And as for US intervention? I'm fully behind John Kerry's brave trip to the region & hope that he's awoken a proper sense of responsibilty in Beijing.

Now run along, Bambi.

Mod

Banned.

Tabnabs

Fair play to the Yanks, talk about a needle in a haystack

After the North Korean launch, U.S. Navy ships managed to recover the front section of the rocket used in it, according to three U.S. officials who work closely on North Korean proliferation. That part of the rocket in turn provided useful clues about North Korean warhead design, should the next payload be a warhead rather than a satellite.

http://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-tipped-hand-084500657--politics.html

VinLieger

Tabnabs wrote: »

Fair play to the Yanks, talk about a needle in a haystack



http://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-tipped-hand-084500657--politics.html

Yes and no, very easy to see where it falls and figure out its location especially considering they probably had sbx-1 in the area at the time watching Kim take a sh1t

Tabnabs

VinLieger wrote: »

Yes and no, very easy to see where it falls and figure out its location especially considering they probably had sbx-1 in the area at the time watching Kim take a sh1t

Easy to track until it falls below effective radar horizon then it's guesswork based on last known course and speed.

Gatling

Tabnabs wrote: »

Easy to track until it falls below effective radar horizon then it's guesswork based on last known course and speed.

Add modern sonar searches of the seabed pretty easy to find

Tabnabs

Gatling wrote: »

Add modern sonar searches of the seabed pretty easy to find

I used "modern sonar", like I said, needle in a haystack.

Gatling

US Marines MEU helicopter made a hard landing while on exercises near the Korean border,
Must have caused some nerves in the area

Kerrydude1981

Anyone watch Panorama last night,was good enough documentary,but I thought there was noting new in it,just seemed to be the same as the docs on YouTube about NK.

RTE should send in Liam Cunningham to make a documentary about NK

paddy147

WOW...after all that talk fom Kim Jong and we are still waiting and waiting and waiting.

What a let down indeed.

opinion guy

paddy147 wrote: »

WOW...after all that talk fom Kim Jong and we are still waiting and waiting and waiting.

What a let down indeed.

Did you miss this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22195453

They want to talk now. Probably as the entire news industry is in Boston now

stevedublin

opinion guy wrote: »

Did you miss this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22195453

They want to talk now. Probably as the entire news industry is in Boston now

I betcha those conditions for talks won't be met.
....just a suspicion.

bilston

opinion guy wrote: »

Did you miss this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22195453

They want to talk now. Probably as the entire news industry is in Boston now

So it was North Korea who attacked Boston then. I knew it! Clearly they wanted to divert attention from the Korean crisis so that they could backdown quietly...:D

ballsymchugh

good documentary on bbc4 now about comrade joe, an american soldier that defected across the DMZ into the north.