Unemployed & no commitments? Why don't you come to China?

Mr. Loverman

Maudi wrote: »

im far to old to go but i just wonder about freedom of information re internet etc.i know it available but are their restrictions on it or any other restrictions we in the west take for granted? m

You aren't too old! China is full of middle aged Westerners starting a new adventure. I know plenty of 50+ year olds.

Regarding Internet, you need to use a VPN here, otherwise your connection is slow and unreliable. They cost about $5 a month. Technically they are illegal but the authorities do not care about foreigners using Facebook.

Oranage2

thiarfearr wrote: »

What is actually involved in teaching English? How do you teach, what would a typical day/week be like?
Also, are there much opportunities in other English speaking jobs, say like customer service or editing or similar?

I do about 20 hours of teaching.

Young kids 3-5 you hold a picture of an apple and say apple, then banana then a cake.


a bit old you say I live apples bananas cakes

older you say I have an apple ...

etc etc

All my lessons are planned out and I'm shown how to teach.

they have English tests in their national school so you're not really teaching them English just how to pass their exams.

most students have 2 English classes a week, one with a foreign teacher and one with a Chinese one. I think the Chinese teacher is there to teach and I'm there to make the school look good, keep the parents happy.

Chinese teachers work 48 hours, I work 30 and get triple what the Chinese teacher gets.

Mr. Loverman

Oranage2 wrote: »

Chinese teachers work 48 hours, I work 30 and get triple what the Chinese teacher gets.

It's messed up, isn't it?

Oranage2

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

It's messed up, isn't it?

Yep, its one of the downers to the job especially since the Chinese teachers are nothing but nice to me.

Also they work so hard and I'll go in and kick a ball about for an hour because I'll have nothing to do.

billy2012

This sounds amazing. I'm currently jobless and on the dole. Heart breaking stuff!! I would love to teach english in China I have no qualifications but could bluff a business degree.

Is this a serious option??

billy2012

Oranage2 wrote: »

I do about 20 hours of teaching.

Young kids 3-5 you hold a picture of an apple and say apple, then banana then a cake.


a bit old you say I live apples bananas cakes

older you say I have an apple ...

etc etc

All my lessons are planned out and I'm shown how to teach.

they have English tests in their national school so you're not really teaching them English just how to pass their exams.

most students have 2 English classes a week, one with a foreign teacher and one with a Chinese one. I think the Chinese teacher is there to teach and I'm there to make the school look good, keep the parents happy.

Chinese teachers work 48 hours, I work 30 and get triple what the Chinese teacher gets.

Any jobs going??

Oranage2

loverman will know a lot more, but Google Dave esl, and look for the China jobs board.

a few companies advertise no degree necessary there.

I needed my actual degree to get a working visa. I'm not sure how other schools will get you a visa, they'll probably tell you to get a year long tourist visa or possibly get you to buy a fake degree.

billy2012

Cheers....Im seriously looking into this. Could be exactly what I'm looking for.

Would it be possible to this this in Honk Kong? I believe it's extremley expensive over there.

Mr. Loverman

It would be very difficult to get an English teaching job in HK. Not impossible though...

Regarding the "no degree", I know people who got a visa without a degree. The visa agent just had to pay more money. This is of course completely shady.

I don't condone faking documents, but the requirement for a degree seems to be a formality rather than an effort at high standards. They are not going to ring the university.

Burgo

Is there any market for English speakers in IT?

markfinn

Burgo wrote: »

Is there any market for English speakers in IT?

A small one, and mostly not directly in IT, but rather in being a checkbox on the translation process.

I was a founder member of a games company in Xiamen, and the other founders included two other laowai who'd done 3 and 5 years in another games company in Fuzhou, which was a bit different as I ended up creating the entire Development department.

Good pay (by Chinese standards), but do not expect much in the way of respect, job progression or training. It seems us laowai in such companies are more mascots or show-pieces than real devs, and gods help you if you try to do actual work and show up your seniors incompetence.

Also, no matter how good your skills and/or experience, your answers will be dismissed in favor of what an old male Chinese person has to say on the matter.

markfinn

billy2012 wrote: »

Would it be possible to this this in Honk Kong? I believe it's extremely expensive over there.

Forget Hong Kong for English teaching for at least the first few years. Significant experience in teaching, and a genuine teaching certification (Degree or above) are pretty much mandatory.

No doubt there are exceptions, folks who got lucky, or got in years ago, but right now TEFL in Hong Kong is self-sufficient for the most part. Enough local folks have full fluent English skills and are trained as teachers to remove the premium wages and low entry requirements for us whitefaces.

markfinn

What's the boards.ie policy on naming schools you know are hiring, and would consider going back to if you hadn't just left to return home to Ireland for family reasons?

Abracastabya

What's the pay like for someone with no degree? Just out of interest

Mr. Loverman

Abracastabya wrote: »

What's the pay like for someone with no degree? Just out of interest

Well officially you can't get a job without a degree, so I wouldn't risk telling an employer you don't have a degree.

But let's say you are here on a tourist visa and you decide to teach English part-time with private clients. So you are self employed. You could charge around 150 - 250 RMB per hour assuming you were decent at it, and somewhat charismatic and good looking. That's around 20 - 30 EUR per hour.

billy2012

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Well officially you can't get a job without a degree, so I wouldn't risk telling an employer you don't have a degree.

But let's say you are here on a tourist visa and you decide to teach English part-time with private clients. So you are self employed. You could charge around 150 - 250 RMB per hour assuming you were decent at it, and somewhat charismatic and good looking. That's around 20 - 30 EUR per hour.

Do schools look for proof of degrees??

Mr. Loverman

Burgo wrote: »

Is there any market for English speakers in IT?

There is, but you'd need to do a bit of networking when you get here.

For example, go along to these things: www.meetup.com/BeijingSoftwareCraftsmanship/

Mr. Loverman

billy2012 wrote: »

Do schools look for proof of degrees??

Yes, they need a copy of your degree when giving your visa application to the government.

Many people without degrees, work semi-ish-legally using business visas. These visas don't require a degree.

markfinn

billy2012 wrote: »

Do schools look for proof of degrees??

No. The Chinese Government does, in the form of the PSB (Visa Offices to the likes of you and I) as a prerequisite for issuing a visa.

A visa (or a job) without a degree as an English teacher in China means that you are residing in China illegally, and either the school faked a set of degree documents or bribed the officer/clerk who was supposed to check for them.

Both are very common practises, but not something I would recommend. If the school's owners/administrators are so happy to disregard the law which can be enforced on them, and for which they can significantly punished, how likely are they to care much for their contractual agreements with some dumb foreigner who has no hope of any form of retribution or defence against their complete flaunting of any aspects of the employment agreement that they don't feel like upholding?

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Mr. Loverman

markfinn wrote: »

Both are very common practises, but not something I would recommend. If the school's owners/administrators are so happy to disregard the law which can be enforced on them, and for which they can significantly punished, how likely are they to care much for their contractual agreements with some dumb foreigner who has no hope of any form of retribution or defence against their complete flaunting of any aspects of the employment agreement that they don't feel like upholding?

I agree with this.

China isn't a quick Ryanair flight away, so better to play it a bit safer and stick to companies who seem legit.

markfinn

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Many people without degrees, work semi-ish-legally using business visas. These visas don't require a degree.

Unless these people are working for a company outside China and being paid, and paying taxes outside China there's no "semi" or "ish" about the complete lack of legality.

Lack of enforcement, yes, sure. But don't kid yourself. It is completely illegal, and every so often (admittedly only 3 times in 8 years in small locations scattered along the East coast) for various political reasons crackdowns do occur.

The last one I know about was Fuzhou and Xiamen in 2009, where after discovering a drug ring using mules with business visas for a non-existant import/export business there was a sudden rush of school visits and deportations.

Keep in mind, on such a fraudulent business visa there will be no mention of the school, or your employers, so if the metaphorical hits the fan you will be completely out on your own and abandoned.

Bigtoe107

I have an undergrad in English and I'm almost finished an MA in English would I be able to make a good living out there or would I just be on standard wages?

Also how would one begin looking for work, surely its not simply a case of going out there and finding a job, would you recommend booking into a hostel first for a few weeks?

Lastly, what would be considered a good salary?

Mr. Loverman

Bigtoe107 wrote: »

I have an undergrad in English and I'm almost finished an MA in English would I be able to make a good living out there or would I just be on standard wages?

Also how would one begin looking for work, surely its not simply a case of going out there and finding a job, would you recommend booking into a hostel first for a few weeks?

Lastly, what would be considered a good salary?

Some of these questions have been answered already.

You would be on a good wage.

Go to China and find a job, or use some of the websites which have been suggested already.

Good salary is relative. Personally I think it is a European salary.

Bigtoe107

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Some of these questions have been answered already.

You would be on a good wage.

Go to China and find a job, or use some of the websites which have been suggested already.

Good salary is relative. Personally I think it is a European salary.

Ok thank you for the tips,

Is there any way to spot if somebody is scamming you, I would feel more comfortable going out there with a job and the correct visa but I don't want to walk into a scam.

How much is rent on average in a relatively big city, preferably somewhere relatively scenic and relaxed if you have personal experience?

What is the average salary for an esl teacher?

handlemaster

whats the salarys like and cost of living after that

Mr. Loverman

Read through the previous few pages for answers to your questions...

Tar.Aldarion

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Read through the previous few pages for answers to your questions...

Good wage varies from person to person

Mr. Loverman

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Good wage varies from person to person

I agree "good" is relative.

You can make up your own mind...

In 2011, Beijing's average monthly wage was 4672 RMB.

As an English teacher you'd earn at least three times that wage, but would work about 2/3 the hours.

You could afford to rent in the expensive part of the city, and eat/drink whatever you want, and still save a chunk of your salary.

I'd say this is probably the equivalent of getting around 3k - 4k into your hands in Dublin. Basically you can spend without worrying too much.

zweton

guys, came across this job on fas and thought of this thread, not sure if its any good to anyone!

http://jobseeker.fas.ie/Default.aspx?q=B+fomdowzS8kaDnSlUDk1zaMUPiFEeNrNWjviinu490thmC2C0u+DAXuq82E9YjozOz7sur49moRj//3EVQS8HnMhYiAwN27vs1ZbBvLE4QDXCmI97hfLlDTH7mXfPe+8JvrAP350zxRY9la7VXjEy0b0M9J+ISA/cQkf95MavTZMIPeZnuqdVGmkq6qdp/DmmphTUVb39Sin8bgGeu/29cx4iIRrD0OQdkpoO59LLdyBUhy5dP/LqiM8vraUb2PErl8w0v3iOvulpMn0+Rb5mxozyV7hT7JijZTCv6SwC7FhVnRTSwTUA2UBqkPsvvx/ZUWiyr0Z0nLm6DXsPnxj8zdGrQgFAuUe2Rab4UTvFZT94bbXkA4WncnXPbm5wppuh4juXb9508VgrwbvxJGK78uyJ1ndmIn9oNAFR3BOkMcm83Nz3zw6r0/hUXSa8VnGDiaPedYZqVkP8s8WQ/gLgF1qLLegiWV+59f9VIxyrs=

markfinn

zweton wrote: »

guys, came across this job on fas and thought of this thread, not sure if its any good to anyone!

Looks to be in Dalian. Not a particularly impressive wage. Even at the top end of their pay scale. I've seen people work for lower for their first year, but looking for someone with teaching experience for 7500? That's playing it rather cheap. I can point anyone interested to a school in Shenyang that'll pay that for 0 experience, as long as you're not a complete waster.

billy2012

markfinn wrote: »

Looks to be in Dalian. Not a particularly impressive wage. Even at the top end of their pay scale. I've seen people work for lower for their first year, but looking for someone with teaching experience for 7500? That's playing it rather cheap. I can point anyone interested to a school in Shenyang that'll pay that for 0 experience, as long as you're not a complete waster.

Do they require Degrees?

markfinn

billy2012 wrote: »

Do they require Degrees?

Any one of "Valid Degree", "Genuine teaching experience" or "Worthwhile TEFL certification" (CELTA or similar, not a "Learn to teach English in 12 hours from the comfort of your own sofa" routine).

Mr. Loverman

billy2012 wrote: »

Do they require Degrees?

You can't get a valid work visa unless you have a degree.

It is a government requirement. Schools aren't allowed override this.

Any company who says you don't need a degree aren't going to give you a valid work visa.

Many many many people without degrees do this and they get by fine.

But there is a small amount of risk. If the school you work for doesn't have a relationship with the police or someone important, there is a small chance your school could be raided. But in 99.9% of the time, the school has a relationship with someone important so they are told in advance whenever a raid will happen.

In China everything comes down to money...

stek

Hi Mr Loverman,
Thanks for your answers, all very interesting.
Slightly off topic, but what are the women like? Is there any integration with locals etc.
Thanks

Mr. Loverman

stek wrote: »

Hi Mr Loverman,
Thanks for your answers, all very interesting.
Slightly off topic, but what are the women like? Is there any integration with locals etc.
Thanks

If you like Chinese women you will be very happy. Irish people are very exotic and good looking in China. For example, pale skin is considered the height of beauty in China... and Irish people are probably the palest in the world.

But be aware Chinese women are way more innocent and traditional compared to Irish women. A 30 year old Chinese woman is probably the equivalent (in maturity) to a 20 year old Irish woman.

billy2012

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

You can't get a valid work visa unless you have a degree.

It is a government requirement. Schools aren't allowed override this.

Any company who says you don't need a degree aren't going to give you a valid work visa.

Many many many people without degrees do this and they get by fine.

But there is a small amount of risk. If the school you work for doesn't have a relationship with the police or someone important, there is a small chance your school could be raided. But in 99.9% of the time, the school has a relationship with someone important so they are told in advance whenever a raid will happen.

In China everything comes down to money...

My mothers cousin used to be Irish ambassador to China, maybe he could somehow help? I also have a few friends in China...One of which is in the middle of building a school, maybe he could help, and a few other high fliers.

Thanks for the putting the idea in my head...would never of thought about it before.

Mr. Loverman

billy2012 wrote: »

My mothers cousin used to be Irish ambassador to China, maybe he could somehow help? I also have a few friends in China...One of which is in the middle of building a school, maybe he could help, and a few other high fliers.

Thanks for the putting the idea in my head...would never of thought about it before.

If you are determined to do it (without a degree), the way to go is business visa. You can get them in Hong Kong and then enter China, or get them directly in China. I know many people who do this.

It is not the official/legal way to do things, but it is very common and in general no white people ever get problems for it.

pillphil

billy2012 wrote: »

My mothers cousin used to be Irish ambassador to China, maybe he could somehow help? I also have a few friends in China...One of which is in the middle of building a school, maybe he could help, and a few other high fliers.

Thanks for the putting the idea in my head...would never of thought about it before.

Maybe you should of paid more attention in school?
:P

Eoin

pillphil wrote: »

Maybe you should of paid more attention in school?
:P

Leave it out please

Colliewollie

Hello,

Which city would be the best to start an Tefl career in China? I will be doing the Celta course next month and I have a Level 8 honours degree (not related to teaching).. Is pollution (smog etc) a major problem in the larger cities? Generally whats the nightlife like, and of course what are the women like towards Irish men in general. Bearing in mind I'm 6' 4'', and fairly built, would I be seen as a complete freak over there!!!

Thanks for the info so far!

Mr. Loverman

Colliewollie wrote: »

Hello,

Which city would be the best to start an Tefl career in China? I will be doing the Celta course next month and I have a Level 8 honours degree (not related to teaching).. Is pollution (smog etc) a major problem in the larger cities? Generally whats the nightlife like, and of course what are the women like towards Irish men in general. Bearing in mind I'm 6' 4'', and fairly built, would I be seen as a complete freak over there!!!

Thanks for the info so far!

You could get a job in any city. Pollution is really only a major problem in Beijing, although by Irish standards all the large Chinese cities are quite polluted. In general, pick a city on the coast (e.g. Qingdao, Dalian) if you want to avoid pollution.

Nightlife in China is fairly interesting. Places like Beijing have loads of bars and clubs. In non-westernized cities (nearly everywhere) Chinese clubs are mega-clubs with table service and all sorts of mad stuff. HOWEVER if you're the type of guy who likes to relax in a pub with a pint of Guinness, you need to go to one of the major cities with a large expat population.

You will find it spectacularly easy to meet Chinese women whereever you go, but if you pick "smaller" cities (millions of people) you will be a sex symbol.

Colliewollie

Cheers Mr. Loverman, haha I think I see where the name comes from!! Ah I'm not too worried about irish pubs etc I was in Oz for a bit, I'm well used to avoiding them when I want, when abroad!! Mega clubs sound interesting!!

I must do a bit of research and I'll probably be asking for more info sometime soon! Thanks again!

pillphil

Eoin wrote: »

Leave it out please

Usually I would but he wants to be an english teacher.

ciano1

Colliewollie wrote: »

Hello,

Generally whats the nightlife like, and of course what are the women like towards Irish men in general. Bearing in mind I'm 6' 4'', and fairly built, would I be seen as a complete freak over there!!!

This guy has lots of videos about life as a foreigner in China

Colliewollie

Cheers ciano1, I'll have a look at some of those, that guy seems to have a lot of videos on youtube and doesn't seem like an idiot either!!

billy2012

I wonder how beneficial it would be if you were above average in the looks department. I'm no George Clooney, more of a Brad Pitt.

thiarfearr

What is it like for food over there, particularly meat?

Mr. Loverman

thiarfearr wrote: »

What is it like for food over there, particularly meat?

Food quality really varies.

It's difficult to get things like steaks and chicken breasts.

In Beijing I use sherpas.com.cn for deliveries all the time. If you check it out you will see there is a good selection of restaurants.

hurlo83

Mr. Loverman,

Thanks a mil for all the info. so far.
I am moving to China in October with 'himself'. He's all sorted as his American
bank are transferring him. When he mentioned his gf was going with him they seemed less than impressed.
I now have to do up a proposal on how I will get a visa etc etc.
I'm going to do a Celta course as I'd like to earn a good wage when I get over there.
Moving to Hangzhou and our accommodation will be paid for.

My main question is can I apply for a visa before I have a job offer, I saw in earlier posts that you can get a 12 month tourist visa. Is this true?
Once I have my Celta I'm pretty certain I could get a job when I get over there. Have a friend in Gaa club near who knows head of one of the schools.

Thanks in advance for your help!