Cameron to curb welfare entitlements for migrants - Should Ireland follow suit?

Prodigious

Your narrowmindedness irks me, and I will now exit the thread.

SWL

Prodigious wrote: »

Your narrowmindedness irks me, and I will now exit the thread.

Thats it run for cover, have you lost the debate?

ResearchWill

SWL wrote: »

Asylum seekers should come from war torn countries but in Ireland they do not, in fact I guarantee you that 100% of Irish people irrespective of their views have no problem supporting (with housing welfare, education opportunities) genuine asylum seekers in controlled numbers. That is not the case in Ireland; the fourth highest minority group in Ireland are Nigerians, higher than the combinedtotal number of some EU countries that have had access to Ireland since 1973 and 1992, and it is beyond comical.

Ireland will do anything to be loved its my biggest pet hate about the Country, if that means providing social housing to every citizen from every country in the world then so be it, given the restrictions on non-EU visa I am surprised so many qualify for social housing, no Irish politician has the balls to even debate the issue of mass immigration, too late for Cameron and the UK their Country has changed.


My partner who works aboard (and lived here for 8 years with me) refuses to visit me in Ireland, she has been adamant that we move home to Sweden especially if we are starting a family and I finally agreed, over the last six weeks I have finally realised she was right all along, Ireland is going nowhere it simply going around in circles, its not a Country run for its citizens, same faces, same policies, same outcome, same emigration, same fools left running the show making the same mistakes over and over.

25% of the new borns are foreign born and people still cannot discuss the negatives associated with mass immigration, only the positive can be discussed of which there are many.

Anyway it’s not longer my problem I won’t be paying for it or paying for the mistakes to support bondholder etc. Possibly my last post on boards as I fly home on Monday so Slan.

The funny thing is the facts don't support your assertions. Nigeria is not the 4th largest nationality in Ireland, it is as follows England & Wales 212k NI 58k Poland 115 k Lithuania 38k United States 27k Latvia 19989 and then Nigeria 19780.

The idea that we have uncontrolled immigration when the UK and EU make up 555k out of 766k the figures are here http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/population/personsusuallyresidentandpresentinthestateoncensusnightclassifiedbyplaceofbirthandagegroup/

BTW Sweeden has a large Somali, Turkish and Iraqi population, as a percentage I believe way more than in ireland so why you moving there then.

The total number of Nigerians in ireland is 20k the total number of Iraqi's who moved to Sweeden in 2007 alone was more than 15k.

"After three years of decreasing numbers of individuals naturalising, 9.9 percent more obtained Swedish citizenship compared to 2009. A total of 32,457 became Swedish, with slightly more women taking citizenship. Most of those who became Swedish were Iraqi citizens, just as in 2009."

From http://www.thelocal.se/32138/20110218/#.UVYI8csgGK0

Ireland had less than a thousand people seeking Asylum in 2012 Sweeden on the other hand http://www.scb.se/Pages/TableAndChart____118098.aspx

Prodigious

Run for cover? Hardly. The ignorance of a few are dragging the thread down.

1. You are calling all foreign nationals asylum seekers.
2. You have some imaginary vision of Ireland and its people as hard working, honourable people.
3. You have no appreciation of culture or diversity.
4. You are attempting to offload the blame of this country's problems on a minority.
5. You are clearly a racist at heart.

Goodbye.

Death and Taxes

SWL wrote: »

Thats it run for cover, have you lost the debate?

There was no debate just inane racist rabble rousing rantings

end of the road

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

People are sick of freeloaders coming into the country getting free bed and board three meals a day and allowances for their kids to go to school while you have families struggling to make ends meet.

i know, shur we have enough with the irish freeloaders, oh wait, shur the irish would never do such a thing

SWL

Prodigious wrote: »

Run for cover? Hardly. The ignorance of a few are dragging the thread down.

1. You are calling all foreign nationals asylum seekers.
2. You have some imaginary vision of Ireland and its people as hard working, honourable people.
3. You have no appreciation of culture or diversity.
4. You are attempting to offload the blame of this country's problems on a minority.
5. You are clearly a racist at heart.

Goodbye.

Incorrect on all counts, you are reading what you WISH I had said not what I said.

On your second point you have a very very low perception of Irsh people, a view I certainly don't share.

WayneMolloy

Prodigious wrote: »

Run for cover? Hardly. The ignorance of a few are dragging the thread down.

1. You are calling all foreign nationals asylum seekers.
2. You have some imaginary vision of Ireland and its people as hard working, honourable people.
3. You have no appreciation of culture or diversity.
4. You are attempting to offload the blame of this country's problems on a minority.
5. You are clearly a racist at heart.

Goodbye.

1- Nope.
2-They mostly are.
3-What cultural benefits, other than the restaurants, have the majority of immigrants brought to the country?
4-Nope. Even the brits are copping onto to this mass immigration crap.
5-lol

Go off and have a good cry.

WayneMolloy

end of the road wrote: »

i know, shur we have enough with the irish freeloaders, oh wait, shur the irish would never do such a thing

Lets import other countries freeloaders too! Genius.

Death and Taxes

WayneMolloy wrote: »

1- Nope.
2-They mostly are.
3-What cultural benefits, other than the restaurants, have the majority of immigrants brought to the country?
4-Nope. Even the brits are copping onto to this mass immigration crap.
5-lol

Go off and have a good cry.

Now theres a word that sums up your posts
And btw we dont have mass immigration

WayneMolloy

WileyCoyote wrote: »

There was no debate just inane racist rabble rousing rantings

Is David Cameron a racist?

Death and Taxes

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Is David Cameron a racist?

You clearly are, Cameron is not posting here, good to see you hero worshipping a toffee nosed old etonian snob, looks like your more English than your masters!

pragmatic1

youtube! wrote: »

Asylum seekers are not the issue here but more the immigrants who decide to stay on when they have no work. I am talking about legal not illegal because illegals won't get anything anyway.

Exactly. The asylum seeker debate is a red herring. The main drain on the system would be EU citizens who are entitled to claim benefits in this state.

WayneMolloy

WileyCoyote wrote: »

You clearly are, Cameron is not posting here, good to see you hero worshipping a toffee nosed old etonian snob, looks like your more English than your masters!

That is not very tolerant.

SWL

ResearchWill wrote: »

The funny thing is the facts don't support your assertions. Nigeria is not the 4th largest nationality in Ireland, it is as follows England & Wales 212k NI 58k Poland 115 k Lithuania 38k United States 27k Latvia 19989 and then Nigeria 19780.

The idea that we have uncontrolled immigration when the UK and EU make up 555k out of 766k the figures are here http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/population/personsusuallyresidentandpresentinthestateoncensusnightclassifiedbyplaceofbirthandagegroup/

BTW Sweeden has a large Somali, Turkish and Iraqi population, as a percentage I believe way more than in ireland so why you moving there then.

The total number of Nigerians in ireland is 20k the total number of Iraqi's who moved to Sweeden in 2007 alone was more than 15k.

"After three years of decreasing numbers of individuals naturalising, 9.9 percent more obtained Swedish citizenship compared to 2009. A total of 32,457 became Swedish, with slightly more women taking citizenship. Most of those who became Swedish were Iraqi citizens, just as in 2009."

From http://www.thelocal.se/32138/20110218/#.UVYI8csgGK0

Ireland had less than a thousand people seeking Asylum in 2012 Sweeden on the other hand http://www.scb.se/Pages/TableAndChart____118098.aspx

I was taking the UK as one nation, I saw a figure of 63k for Nigeria,maybe it was the total number of Africans, I am moving to Sweden because I am Swedish and the Country is better run than Ireland,it took the best part of 10 plus years to realise this. Ireland has no immigration controls the arrival of 300k accession citizens in less than 18 months proves this as does the 80k sitting on the dole.

As for the rest of your points feel free to visit Sweden and see things for yourself. Sweden is not the Country many people believe.

As I have already said no longer my problem enjoying paying.

SWL

WileyCoyote wrote: »

There was no debate just inane racist rabble rousing rantings

Keep them coming you really are adding to the quality of debate here.

Death and Taxes

WayneMolloy wrote: »

That is not very tolerant.

Well then you should feel at home with it as intolerance seems to be your strongest if not your only suit.

Prodigious

Did you sign up to boards just to push your racist agenda?

WayneMolloy

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Well then you should feel at home with it as intolerance seems to be your strongest if not your only suit.

I dont tolerate freeloaders.

What quango are you aligned to?

ResearchWill

SWL wrote: »

I was taking the UK as one nation, I saw a figure of 63k for Nigeria,maybe it was the total number of Africans, I am moving to Sweden because I am Swedish and the Country is better run than Ireland,it took the best part of 10 plus years to realise this. Ireland has no immigration controls the arrival of 300k accession citizens in less than 18 months proves this as does the 80k sitting on the dole.

As for the rest of your points feel free to visit Sweden and see things for yourself. Sweden is not the Country many people believe.

As I have already said no longer my problem enjoying paying.

The irony a immigrant making complaint about immigration in a country he is not even from. I would say that Irish but then again your not. If you believe Sweden is better run you could well be correct, and enjoy your life there.

WayneMolloy

ResearchWill wrote: »

The irony a immigrant making complaint about immigration in a country he is not even from. I would say that Irish but then again your not. If you believe Sweden is better run you could well be correct, and enjoy your life there.

Your intolerance is showing. Just like mr coyotes. After ten years here the poster may well be an Irish citizen.

teatreeshamble

WayneMolloy wrote: »

If you migrate to another country, pay your way and respect the law of the land. I dont really care about integration and your religous beliefs.

Cant pay your way - slan leat.

Other than in the UK, where would an Irish lad be able to move to another country, work a minimum wage job and got hooked up with a nice free abode?

We are broke. We cant house anyone and everyone who rocks on up here.

Integration or religous beliefs - what are you on about?
If someone has paid PRSI, then they should get whatever paying PRSI gets every and anybody, regardless of their birth nation. If change is called for, it should be across the board, targeting freeloaders, regardless of where they were born. If they're not contributing to society, they shouldn't get priority for housing. I'd much rather see a low wage earner(who works 40hr) get a house rather than a lazy Irish fcuk who just couldn't be arsed working get it. Being Irish shouldn't entitle you to jack **** in this country. Being a tax payer should.

end of the road

SWL wrote: »

25% of the new borns are foreign born and people still cannot discuss the negatives associated with mass immigration, only the positive can be discussed of which there are many.

i'm afraid bubba the days of ireland for the irish and england for the english are long gone, hay so is america for the americans, people emigrate and migrate, if you have a problem with it tuff, infact by the sounds of it you came from another country to here so i don't see what your problem is, if your talking about those screwing the system then yes i completely agree the full force of the law should be put up on them no matter where they are from.

SWL wrote: »

Anyway it’s not longer my problem I won’t be paying for it or paying for the mistakes to support bondholder etc. Possibly my last post on boards as I fly home on Monday so Slan.

bye then

ResearchWill

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Your intolerance is showing. Just like mr coyotes.

Where is my intolerance. I pointed out irony where did I say he had no right to be here, work here, collect welfare here. I even said he could be correct about his view if his own country and wished him luck in his choice to go home. How was anything I said intolerance.

Even if he has a Irish passport it does not take away that he is an immigrant bashing immigration go figure if you think that intolerant.

Prodigious

WayneMolloy wrote: »

I dont tolerate freeloaders.

What quango are you aligned to?

If your head wasn't so perfectly aligned with your arse maybe you'd be able to take it out and see some sense.

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Your intolerance is showing. Just like mr coyotes. After ten years here the poster may well be an Irish citizen.

Not just a racist, a hypocrite too? Congratulations.

Death and Taxes

WayneMolloy wrote: »

I dont tolerate freeloaders.

What quango are you aligned to?

The Irish

WayneMolloy

teatreeshamble wrote: »

Integration or religous beliefs - what are you on about?
If someone has paid PRSI, then they should get whatever paying PRSI gets every and anybody, regardless of their birth nation. If change is called for, it should be across the board, targeting freeloaders, regardless of where they were born. If they're not contributing to society, they shouldn't get priority for housing. I'd much rather see a low wage earner(who works 40hr) get a house rather than a lazy Irish fcuk who just couldn't be arsed working get it. Being Irish shouldn't entitle you to jack **** in this country. Being a tax payer should.

Being Irish should entitle you to jack sh*t in Ireland lol. The whole point of the nation state is to look after its citizens. That is its sole, and most important, purpose.

If you move to another country and need the country to provide you with housing - then you shouldnt really be in that country in the first place. If I moved to another nation, I dont think id have the balls to ask for a free abode - fair play to anyone that does. But they cant get miffed when some of us call it like it is. Freeloading in a foreign country.

ResearchWill

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Being Irish should entitle you to jack sh*t in Ireland lol. The whole point of the nation state is to look after its citizens. That is its sole, and most important, purpose.

If you move to another country and need the country to provide you with housing - then you shouldnt really be in that country in the first place. If I moved to another nation, I dont think id have the balls to ask for a free abode - fair play to anyone that does. But they cant get miffed when some of us call it like it is. Freeloading in a foreign country.

Can you tell me where these free abodes are, I know of no house that is free to its occupant, unless we are talking about the president's home. But everyone in social housing pays rent.

BTW this circular puts a lot if what has been said on this thread in context, http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,29412,en.pdf

Some interesting info

All EEA nationals may be considered for assessment for social housing support from housing authorities if;
1) they are in employment/self-employed in the State; or
2) where they are not currently working/employed it is because -
 they are temporarily unable to work because of illness/accident;
 they are recorded as involuntarily unemployed after having been employed for longer than
a year, and they are registered as a job-seeker with Department of Social Protection and
FÁS.4

WayneMolloy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

4-Nope. Even the brits are copping onto to this mass immigration crap.

"The Brits" of course have famously always been overwhelmingly pro-immigration.

WayneMolloy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

The whole point of the nation state is to look after its citizens. That is its sole, and most important, purpose.

How very left-wing of you.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

teatreeshamble

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Being Irish should entitle you to jack sh*t in Ireland lol. The whole point of the nation state is to look after its citizens. That is its sole, and most important, purpose.

If you move to another country and need the country to provide you with housing - then you shouldnt really be in that country in the first place. If I moved to another nation, I dont think id have the balls to ask for a free abode - fair play to anyone that does. But they cant get miffed when some of us call it like it is. Freeloading in a foreign country.

Tax payers are citizens...REGARDLESS OF PLACE OF BIRTH.
What part of that don't you get? This has been the case in most countries since the time of the Romans.
You can't see past your own story to see the bigger picture. Targeting migrants without targeting freeloaders as a whole is the typical poorly thought out, narrow minded idiocy that is prevalent amongst those who think Ireland is somehow superior to every other country just because we're Irish.

/end of

WayneMolloy

teatreeshamble wrote: »

Tax payers are citizens...REGARDLESS OF PLACE OF BIRTH.
What part of that don't you get? This has been the case in most countries since the time of the Romans.
You can't see past your own story to see the bigger picture. Targeting migrants without targeting freeloaders as a whole is the typical poorly thought out, narrow minded idiocy that is prevalent amongst those who think Ireland is somehow superior to every other country just because we're Irish.

/end of

Taxpayers are citizens regardless of place of birth. Being Irish in Ireland should entitle you to jack sh*t.lol

Keep them coming, buddy. I take it you stocked up well yesterday.

teatreeshamble

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Taxpayers are citizens regardless of place of birth. Being Irish in Ireland should entitle you to jack sh*t.lol

Keep them coming, buddy. I take it you stocked up well yesterday.

You keep using 'lol'.
Coupled with your ill-thought out comments, I'm pegging you as a 12 year old who overheard an adult's conversation and tried to regurgitate some words from memory.
Sun went down a while ago - you should get back to see how George and the rest of the gang solved the latest mystery.

Edit: Just to clarify that I'm not your buddy.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

Prodigious wrote: »

It's not racism to pay one man less because he's foreign? Sort yourself out.

Shove your politically correct condescension. This government needs to sort itself and its welfare policies out. The country is broke. Its not about paying one man less because he's foreign, but if someone chooses to move to this country (I'm not talking about asylum seekers here) of their own accord then they should only be afforded the protection of the welfare system in time of hardship up to a point. Or should we just pay them all and pay them often?

hyperborean

Its not the people claiming but the system, too many holes for Irish and non alike to take advantage of and in some cases far to generous which actually stops economic immigrants from moving to better climes

woodoo

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Being Irish should entitle you to jack sh*t in Ireland lol. The whole point of the nation state is to look after its citizens. That is its sole, and most important, purpose.

If you move to another country and need the country to provide you with housing - then you shouldnt really be in that country in the first place. If I moved to another nation, I dont think id have the balls to ask for a free abode - fair play to anyone that does. But they cant get miffed when some of us call it like it is. Freeloading in a foreign country.

I agree with that, immigrants should be here to work, study or retire on their own pension otherwise why come, what have they to offer us.

ResearchWill

deccurley wrote: »

Shove your politically correct condescension. This government needs to sort itself and its welfare policies out. The country is broke. Its not about paying one man less because he's foreign, but if someone chooses to move to this country (I'm not talking about asylum seekers here) of their own accord then they should only be afforded the protection of the welfare system in time of hardship up to a point. Or should we just pay them all and pay them often?

OK if a guy moves here legally from say America, and claims social welfare on arrival do you know how much he will get well its €0.00 a week. All person claiming social welfare (except single parent) have to satisfy the habitual residency test, that includes returning Irish. The usual ruleis if you are here working for 2 years then you may be entitled.

Also for a lot of Non EU immigrants to claim social welfare in the first 5 years can put your status at risk. While of course some immigrants are immediately entitled to payments an example recognised refugees, non EU wife or partner of an Irish Citizen or EU citizen.

Many of our non Irish have no automatic right to any payment from any SW source.

SWL

ResearchWill wrote: »

The irony a immigrant making complaint about immigration in a country he is not even from. I would say that Irish but then again your not. If you believe Sweden is better run you could well be correct, and enjoy your life there.

Looks like the mask is slipping, are you suggesting that as an immigrant and hefty tax payer, that I am not allowed pass comment on how my taxes and the society I live in is run? Sounds like you are pushing some sort of an agenda.

Would you be as quick at your attempts to ridicule me if I agreed with your position, pretty much sums a lot of so called tolerant types like you up

I have a lot of time for Irish people and Ireland, but Sweden is better run than Ireland, it has indigenous heavy industries, better education and healthcare,the IMF/EU is not demanding their money back from the backs of the working poorand I would like to think even the boring Swedes would put up a fight for their Country unlike the fighting Irish who lay down and accepted everything other than the odd phone call to Joe Duffy.

If some of you guys defending your own the way you defend immigration Ireland would be a lot better off, but Ireland is always completely preoccupied with how it is viewed from abroad.

Incidentally I do qualify for citizenship in Ireland from one of my parents but chose not to apply for the coveted passport.

questionmark?

Let's start at the first hurdle. Welfare is meant to be a stop gap that people can fall back on, on hard times. So how can people sign on at 18 and never work they are a small but expensive minority but should be routed out in the same way people who come to Ireland should not expect anything for nothing.

SWL

ResearchWill wrote: »

Where is my intolerance. I pointed out irony where did I say he had no right to be here, work here, collect welfare here. I even said he could be correct about his view if his own country and wished him luck in his choice to go home. How was anything I said intolerance.

Even if he has a Irish passport it does not take away that he is an immigrant bashing immigration go figure if you think that intolerant.

The idea that all immigrants to Ireland think the same show how weak your views are, immigrants don't all think the same way, follow the same religion, in fact many immigrants i work with share my views and believe Ireland has lost its way in many ways including the immigration issue, they too have left, so the immigrats you should keep are leaving and the what remains the State must support and you wonder why the IMF is here.

ResearchWill

SWL wrote: »

Looks like the mask is slipping, are you suggesting that as an immigrant andhefty tax payer, that I am not allowed pass comment on how my taxes and the societyI live in is run? Sounds like you are pushing some sort of an agenda.

Would you be as quick at your attempts to ridicule me if I agreed with yourposition, pretty much sums a lot of so called tolerant types like you up

I have a lot of time for Irish people and Ireland, but Sweden is better runthan Ireland, it has indigenous heavy industries, better education and healthcare,the IMF/EU is not demanding their money back from the backs of the working poorand I would like to think even the boring Swedes would put up a fight for theirCountry unlike the fighting Irish who lay down and accepted everything otherthan the odd phone call to Joe Duffy.

If some of you guys defending your own the way you defend immigrationIreland would be a lot better off, but Ireland is always completely preoccupied with how it is viewed from abroad.

Incidentally I do qualify for citizenship in Ireland from one of my parents butchose not to apply for the coveted passport.

Where did I say what you claim I said. I never said you have no right to say how money is spent, I simply said it irony that an immigrant is knocking immigration. I went on to say you may be correct in your view of sweeden national debt in sweeden is about 30% of GDP. I also said to enjoy your move home.

I pointed out that sweeden has a large immigrant population, in response to your attack on ireland policy towards immigration.

BTW where did I ridicule you.

ResearchWill

SWL wrote: »

The idea that all immigrants to Ireland think the same show how weak your views are, immigrants don't all think the same way, follow the same religion, in fact many immigrants i work with share my views and believe Ireland has lost its way in many ways including the immigration issue, they too have left, so the immigrats you should keep are leaving and the what remains the State must support and you wonder why the IMF is here.

Again where did I say all immigrants think the same, where did I say they should think the same. I simply pointed out the irony of an immigrant knocking immigration. Like sweeden ireland has open borders to the EU. 2/3 of our immigrants are EU. 1/3 come from the rest of the world. Of which about 50 thousand or less than 10% are illegal. Where is the rampant immigration.

You are entitled to believe what you want about Ireland, all I have done is politely point out where your information has been incorrect. I have looked back over my posts and do not see any place where I ridiculed you or your views.

BTW Sweden in the early 1990's went through a serious financial crises, by doing so and taking in on the chin it was able to weather the current downturn, I believe that ireland will get through its current woes and will bounce back. Also the crises in Sweden in early 90's was a housing bubble.

Interesting paper on the crises http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/publications/publication14098_en.pdf

As you will see it paid off for Sweden, who did a lot of what ireland did 20 years later, lets hope it works out as well for us as it did for Sweden.

greendom

Why is it, whenever there is an economic crisis, it's deemed acceptable to attack those least able to look after themselves ?

Read this article from the (UK) Independent today by comedian Mark Steel. Summed up quite a few people's thinking on here it seems.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-poor-spend-all-the-money-isnt-it-obvious-8553643.html

SWL

ResearchWill wrote: »

Again where did I say all immigrants think the same, where did I say they should think the same. I simply pointed out the irony of an immigrant knocking immigration. Like sweeden ireland has open borders to the EU. 2/3 of our immigrants are EU. 1/3 come from the rest of the world. Of which about 50 thousand or less than 10% are illegal. Where is the rampant immigration.

You are entitled to believe what you want about Ireland, all I have done is politely point out where your information has been incorrect. I have looked back over my posts and do not see any place where I ridiculed you or your views.

BTW Sweden in the early 1990's went through a serious financial crises, by doing so and taking in on the chin it was able to weather the current downturn, I believe that ireland will get through its current woes and will bounce back. Also the crises in Sweden in early 90's was a housing bubble.

Sweden had a similar crises in fact in many ways almost identical (in terms of the asset and bankin solvency) to Irelands, so why didn’t Ireland learn from the mistakes in Sweden

But you are not comparing like with like

The financial crises is still ongoing, the government still owns a high percentage of the banks it rescued, hardly a completely success. The government also played a poker game with international investors, Ireland and the Euro can’t do the same.

Inflation rises in Germany and Ireland is in big trouble.

Ireland is not Sweden, Ireland don’t have the internal resources to get themselves out of this mess. Ireland also has a big internal budgeting problem which is the theme of this thread, as a State it cannot cover its own costs, the model used in Sweden is half replicated in Ireland and is still failing in Ireland.

The financial crises is already half a decade old and the main problems are yet to be addressed, such as mortgage debt relief, so Ireland won’t be bouncing out of anything anytime soon, in fact with debt levels so high and inter generational sovereign debt Ireland could go the way of Japan and stagnant of the next decade. If the EU pulls the plug on corporation tax in the next five years, Ireland will be in big trouble.

But as I said in my first post, same faces, same policies, same incompetence.

homerjay2005

Ranicand wrote: »

It is my experience these threads never go well.

The usual suspects will be on before long screaming racism.

The truth can not be told and the usual suspects will bait users who dare speak the truth and get them banned.

Because we all know it is very hateful to disagree with throwing money away to people who have never or will never contribute a cent to this state.

I will be one of those people when things get to the Cyprus stage saying I told you so.

very simple, like other countries if your not bringing anything to the country in terms of skils/education, then you should not be left in.

its too easy to come in here and scrounge off the state, we need to change it....the problem is however, are we legally obligued to leave it as it is?

ResearchWill

SWL wrote: »

Sweden had a similar crises in fact in many ways almost identical (in terms of the asset and bankin solvency) to Irelands, so why didn’t Ireland learn from the mistakes in Sweden

But you are not comparing like with like

The financial crises is still ongoing, the government still owns a high percentage of the banks it rescued, hardly a completely success. The government also played a poker game with international investors, Ireland and the Euro can’t do the same.

Inflation rises in Germany and Ireland is in big trouble.

Ireland is not Sweden, Ireland don’t have the internal resources to get themselves out of this mess. Ireland also has a big internal budgeting problem which is the theme of this thread, as a State it cannot cover its own costs, the model used in Sweden is half replicated in Ireland and is still failing in Ireland.

The financial crises is already half a decade old and the main problems are yet to be addressed, such as mortgage debt relief, so Ireland won’t be bouncing out of anything anytime soon, in fact with debt levels so high and inter generational sovereign debt Ireland could go the way of Japan and stagnant of the next decade. If the EU pulls the plug on corporation tax in the next five years, Ireland will be in big trouble.

But as I said in my first post, same faces, same policies, same incompetence.

A couple of differences 1 Sweden had a shorter boom, 2 Sweden had its own currency 3 Sweden lost its battle to keep its currency pegged. By floating free Sweden became instantly cheaper to do business. And yes Sweden did not have two hits in one it did not have to deal with a banking crises and a large annual deficit.

But as so so expertly explained the crises in Sweden can you now point out where I ridiculed you.

WayneMolloy

greendom wrote: »

Why is it, whenever there is an economic crisis, it's deemed acceptable to attack those least able to look after themselves ?

Read this article from the (UK) Independent today by comedian Mark Steel. Summed up quite a few people's thinking on here it seems.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-poor-spend-all-the-money-isnt-it-obvious-8553643.html

Nothing to do with the thread. Do you think it sane for a small bankrupt rock to be providing social housing and other assorted benefits to 70 different nationalities, in just one small enclave of Dublin city?

Nodin

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Nothing to do with the thread. Do you think it sane for a small bankrupt rock to be providing social housing and other assorted benefits to 70 different nationalities, in just one small enclave of Dublin city?

Are you saying we should run some North Korean style regime and remove ourselves from the geneva convention and the European free movement area?

ResearchWill

homerjay2005 wrote: »

very simple, like other countries if your not bringing anything to the country in terms of skils/education, then you should not be left in.

its too easy to come in here and scrounge off the state, we need to change it....the problem is however, are we legally obligued to leave it as it is?

Yes we are legally obliged to allow all people from the EU in. But they do not have any automatic right to SW. Those people make up 2/3 of immigrant population.

We are legally obliged to allow those who seek Asylum in, we only accept about 10% of applicants who are then legally entitled to everything a citizen is. We have had roughly 75k applications for Asylum. About 7.5k accepted about 20k given leave to remain for other reasons mostly parents of Irish citizen children. A few thousand only have been deported and about 30 - 50k remain illegally.

Then other than spouses of persons here legally the only other ways to enter and stay are student limited for 7 years no social welfare. Or work permit or green card high value job in certain areas. If I remember correctly if salary between 30 to 60 k there must be proof job can not be filled within EU. If over 60K no job test.