Cameron to curb welfare entitlements for migrants - Should Ireland follow suit?

WayneMolloy

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Spot on my bad.

Did he not want to serve his sentence over in his home country as he was hoping to do less time for the crime?? Again i could be wrong on it but i recall reading something along those lines in one of the papers.

Prisoners in an EU country other than their own, can apply for repatriation. A RIRA lad who was arrested in Lithuania for trying to acquire weaponry is trying to get sent back here to serve his time. A czech lad who was given a life sentence here, was sent home to serve his full sentence in a Czech prison recently enough too.

Neither will get released early. Those that apply, usually cite family visitation as their reason.

mikemac1

mango salsa wrote: »

I wouldn't bother responding to all the whataboutery

Yet you thank the post on the 1st page about Tim Kennelly from Kerry.

WayneMolloy

mango salsa wrote: »

I wouldn't bother responding to all the whataboutery

Very little whataboutery on this thread. Loads of links to the unemployment figures, numbers on the housing list and the like.

The response from some - ask for more links,ignore them when provided, label those who disagree with them ignorant, racist, inciting hatred yada yada.

Keep burying your head in the sand on the issue and listen to race hustling quangos instead. Its what our elected representatives have been doing for years now.

Grand Moff Tarkin

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Very little whataboutery on this thread. Loads of links to the unemployment figures, numbers on the housing list and the like.

The response from some - ask for more links,ignore them when provided, label those who disagree with them ignorant, racist, inciting hatred yada yada.

Keep burying your head in the sand on the issue and listen to race hustling quangos instead. Its what our elected representatives have been doing for years now.

That above in bold would be correct.

crockholm

I think that the whole "whataboutery" thing was brought up as a response to someone claiming that a serious racial incident hapens 52 times a year,perhaps as a way of saying"what a nasty racist bunch we are" all I did was respond that Irish people have been victims too.


just reminds me of the whole "dog bites man"-not news


"man bites dog"- newsworthy

Annasopra

WayneMolloy wrote: »

How can one group of white people be racist against another group of white people? Lithuanians and Irish people are of the same race. The word is thrown around like snuff at a rural wake - its lost its meaning.

Some people don't understand the difference between racism and xenophobia

mattjack

WayneMolloy wrote: »

If the Irish emigrants moving to Canada and Australia were over on the mooch, id call them out too. The fact is they aint. Only 2 percent of the Irish community there are unemployed. We may hazzard a guess as to whom they are, but I digress.

If you move to another country, work. If you are struggling to pay your way, look for a higher paying position. If its still not working out and you are about to become a burden on the state you now reside in, then its time to book that flight home. Moving countries just to languish on welfare is utterly insane to me and should not be tolerated. Especially in a broke ass country like ireland. Six months scratch, tops, and then a flight ticket home.

Wayne , broke ass ? Ireland is not broke ass .
People now don't have the standard of living they had during the Celtic Tiger.
No Irish man will starve , nor rear a family on the street.
Broke ass for us means no Sky subscription , no new car every three years, no long weekends in New York etc.
It becomes easy to look around and find the marginalised.

Broke ass for some ,who arrive here means survival , while in some of those 70 odd countries it might be starvation, persecution etc.

WayneMolloy

mattjack wrote: »

Wayne , broke ass ? Ireland is not broke ass .
People now don't have the standard of living they had during the Celtic Tiger.
No Irish man will starve , nor rear a family on the street.
Broke ass for us means no Sky subscription , no new car every three years, no long weekends in New York etc.
It becomes easy to look around and find the marginalised.

Broke ass for some ,who arrive here means survival , while in some of those 70 odd countries it might be starvation, persecution etc.

Define broke? I define it as spending more cash than you take in. Ireland spends 17, 000, 000, 000 euro more than we take in. We are pretty broke.

Irregardless, the persecuted are free to claim asylum here - most that do are found to be making unsubstantiated claims. Ireland is not a charitable organisation. There is no statue of liberty on the Dublin coast asking for the poor and needy. We are a tiny, bankrupt , windswept rock off the west of Europe.

If you wanna come here, work and pay your way - fine. Welcome. If you here for freebies or cant support yourself - then its time to book a flight home. Irish emigrants in Canada and Australia will experience the exact same sentiment there.

WayneMolloy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Define broke? I define it as spending more cash than you take in. Ireland spends 17, 000, 000, 000 euro more than we take in. We are pretty broke.

Irregardless, the persecuted are free to claim asylum here - most that do are found to be making unsubstantiated claims. Ireland is not a charitable organisation. There is no statue of liberty on the Dublin coast asking for the poor and needy. We are a tiny, bankrupt , windswept rock off the west of Europe.

If you wanna come here, work and pay your way - fine. Welcome. If you here for freebies or cant support yourself - then its time to book a flight home. Irish emigrants in Canada and Australia will experience the exact same sentiment there.

May I ask, do you pay your own way, Wayne? 'Cause you, and your ilk are more than welcome to leave, too

Death and Taxes

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Define broke? I define it as spending more cash than you take in. Ireland spends 17, 000, 000, 000 euro more than we take in. We are pretty broke.

Irregardless, the persecuted are free to claim asylum here - most that do are found to be making unsubstantiated claims. Ireland is not a charitable organisation. There is no statue of liberty on the Dublin coast asking for the poor and needy. We are a tiny, bankrupt , windswept rock off the west of Europe.

If you wanna come here, work and pay your way - fine. Welcome. If you here for freebies or cant support yourself - then its time to book a flight home. Irish emigrants in Canada and Australia will experience the exact same sentiment there.

Our current budget defict is nowhere near €17 billion, more made up "facts".

WayneMolloy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

May I ask, do you pay your own way, Wayne? 'Cause you, and your ilk are more than welcome to leave, too

That would leave Ireland to the do gooders and the immigrants - http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/seven-out-of-10-favour-immigration-restrictions-26546841.html

Il leave it with ye.

Edit: And yes I do.

WayneMolloy

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Our current budget defict is nowhere near €17 billion, more made up "facts".

14.9 at present. My mistake

http://www.businesspost.ie/#!story/Home/News/Exchequer+results%3A+deficit+falls+to+%E2%82%AC14.9+billion/id/19410615-5218-50e5-bbc7-3f14b4876749

Gatling

But its proven most of the people who come here claiming asylum in the past I think 90% of them a number in the thousands never followed through with there asylum application's once they entered the welfare system ,
How many court case's costing tax payers millions in legal cost to try remove illegal immigrants who gave ridiculous accounts of persecution ,religious ,female genital mutilation and so on only to be proven complete false ,
Genuine recognised refugees number less than several hundred ,

WayneMolloy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Edit: And yes I do.

Might I ask would you earn enough to be a net contributor to the tax take? Or would you be a net recipient?

WayneMolloy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Might I ask would you earn enough to be a net contributor to the tax take? Or would you be a net recipient?

I pay my taxes and dont receive any welfare handouts. Why do you ask?

Grand Moff Tarkin

WayneMolloy wrote: »

I pay my taxes and dont receive any welfare handouts. Why do you ask?

As a famous Admiral of the Rebel Alliance once said.

"It's a trap" :D

WayneMolloy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

I pay my taxes and dont receive any welfare handouts. Why do you ask?

How much tax do you pay, though? i.e., if you have paid less than 4k in a calendar year then you haven't even covered your health spend by the government. I "pay tax" just isn't enough to cover it, I'm afraid.

Isn't that your problem with welfare going to immigrants, that they haven't covered it in taxes?

WayneMolloy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

How much tax do you pay, though? i.e., if you have paid less than 4k in a calendar year then you haven't even covered your health spend by the government. I "pay tax" just isn't enough to cover it, I'm afraid.

Isn't that your problem with welfare going to immigrants, that they haven't covered it in taxes?

Id say its fairly covered, so. Do you want me to post up my p60 here or something?

WayneMolloy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Id say its fairly covered, so. Do you want me to post up my p60 here or something?

All so vague.

I'm just trying to figure out what your actual problem with immigrants and welfare is. It's been mentioned numerous times that immigrants are entitled to very little with regards to welfare. Also, reports have been posted which espouse the economic benefits of having immigrants arriving and contributing more to the tax take than they take out.

Yet, it's still a problem for you... Why?

WayneMolloy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

All so vague.

I'm just trying to figure out what your actual problem with immigrants and welfare is. It's been mentioned numerous times that immigrants are entitled to very little with regards to welfare. Also, reports have been posted which espouse the economic benefits of having immigrants arriving and contributing more to the tax take than they take out.

Yet, it's still a problem for you... Why?

Ive explained why at least a dozen times now. Have a look at the figures posted in the opening piece. Stop playing dumb.

Links to these reports, if you would be so kind.

1ZRed

This is terrible!

People with migraines shouldn't be treated like this!

Gatling

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

A UK newpaper report has been posted which espouse the economic benefits of having immigrants arriving and contributing more to the tax take than they take out.

Yet, it's still a problem for you... Why?

That figure is based of UK immigration ,if immigrants were contributing 18 billion to our economy we would be in less financial difficulties,

Again people are seriously misreading or not reading at all on here ,
The issue is with people coming here solely for benefits and free housing,
Not coming here to live and work and contribute to society

WayneMolloy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Ive explained why at least a dozen times now. Have a look at the figures posted in the opening piece. Stop playing dumb.

Links to these reports, if you would be so kind.

I did look at the opening post. I don't see the outrage. You're not on the housing list yourself, are you? Looking to have MY taxes fund YOUR house? I'm sickened.

Whats the difference to me if Wayne Molloy gets a house, compared to say Wayne Izevbekhai? There's very little difference from where I'm standing. If it bothers you so much, perhaps you might think of just going the private route where you're not relying on the taxpayer to pay your way.

Weathering

Finally a leader with balls and not one who bases policies on fear of beeing called a racist

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

The issue is with people coming here solely for benefits and free housing,
Not coming here to live and work and contribute to society

Exactly. This is the issue that you guys are trying to propagate. Yet you seem to lack any sort of credible evidence that there are hordes of people coming over without any skills or ambitions, who are only here to live hassle-free off the Irish taxpayer.

In fact, numerous items have been posted which prove otherwise.

WayneMolloy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I did look at the opening post. I don't see the outrage. You're not on the housing list yourself, are you? Looking to have MY taxes fund YOUR house? I'm sickened.

Whats the difference to me if Wayne Molloy gets a house, compared to say Wayne Izevbekhai? There's very little difference from where I'm standing. If it bothers you so much, perhaps you might think of just going the private route where you're not relying on the taxpayer to pay your way.

Ive never been on the dole on my life, buddy, and I aint on the housing register either.

Nice try though.

Do you think it perfectly normal and sane for ireland to have 30, 000 foreign families on the housing list and another 80, 000 living off welfare?

WayneMolloy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Exactly. This is the issue that you guys are trying to propagate. Yet you seem to lack any sort of credible evidence that there are hordes of people coming over without any skills or ambitions, who are only here to live hassle-free off the Irish taxpayer.

In fact, numerous items have been posted which prove otherwise.

20 - 25 per cent of eastern europeans here, are on the dole.

Nearly 40 percent of our largest African minority, are on the dole.

30, 000 foreign families are on the housing list.

70 different nationalities on the housing list in fingal alone.

35 percent of those in recipt of rent allowance, are foreign families.

And thats not taking the countless other benefits into account.

Yet, you tulips still fail to admit that this is a major problem.

WayneMolloy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Ive never been on the dole on my life, buddy, and I aint on the housing register either.

Nice try though.

Do you think it perfectly normal and sane for ireland to have 30, 000 foreign families on the housing list and another 80, 000 living off welfare?

Surely, assuming all you are saying is true, you should be directing your efforts at having welfare as a whole become less attractive? Or do you have no problem with Irish people who laze around on the dole?

When you say 80,000 foreign families on the dole, do you have any links to backup this...at all?

WayneMolloy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

When you say 80,000 foreign families on the dole, do you have any links to backup this...at all?

The opening piece. All in there.

Speaking of links, you have yet to provide one backing up the statement that immigrants in Ireland pay in, more than they take out.

Please provide that link.

WayneMolloy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

The opening piece. All in there.

Speaking of links, you have yet to provide one backing up the statement that immigrants in Ireland pay in, more than they take out.

Please provide that link.

I can't see anything about 80,000 foreign families who are living off welfare. Can you?

WayneMolloy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I can't see anything about 80,000 foreign families who are living off welfare. Can you?

Third down. Being subsidised by welfare would have been more apt.

WayneMolloy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Third down. Being subsidised by welfare would have been more apt.

Children's allowance?

4lovestreet

WayneMolloy wrote: »

How can one group of white people be racist against another group of white people? Lithuanians and Irish people are of the same race. The word is thrown around like snuff at a rural wake - its lost its meaning.

Okay, apologies for not using the correct terminology. I'll reiterate with discriminatory.

WayneMolloy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Children's allowance?

Jobseekers.

Are you reading the links I provided, or are you delibrately being obtuse?

And any chance of an oul link to back up your previous bold statement?

WayneMolloy

4lovestreet wrote: »

Okay, apologies for not using the correct terminology. I'll reiterate with discriminatory.

Three countries allowed Lithuanians and the rest of the new EU member states free access to their labour markets. Ireland was one of the three. The rest of the club shut up shop and placed restrictions on them

Then one must consider the number of rabid neo nazis running around eastern europe and how they treat minorities - the only suitable reaction to their claims of Ireland being a racist place, is one of laughter.

Its like an irish man lecturing a group of Mormons on the dangers of binge drinking.

Latchy

Cameron & co have also introduced the bedroom tax and increased council tax payments to which really hasn't been thought out to well and will hit thousand's of poorer Brits who are struggling enough as it is .Many think Camerons curb on welfare entitlement's for migrants is just a quick response to public outrage and UKIP who had already previously proposed this as part of their manifesto and who have gained popularity because of , before Cameron made it public last week .

WayneMolloy

Latchy wrote: »

Cameron & co have also introduced the bedroom tax and increased council tax payments to which really hasn't been thought out to well and will hit thousand's of poorer Brits who are struggling enough as it is .Many think Camerons curb on welfare entitlement's for migrants is just a quick response to public outrage and UKIP who had already previously proposed this as part of their manifesto and who have gained popularity because of , before Cameron made it public last week .

Dont UKIP want to deport welfare tourists and not just cut them off?

WayneMolloy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Jobseekers.

Are you reading the links I provided, or are you delibrately being obtuse?

And any chance of an oul link to back up your previous bold statement?

OK, so at first we must assume that the majority are on some sort of JSB rather than JSA. If it is JSB then they have paid the stamps. Now, there were 80k unemployed non-Irish, not 80k separate non-Irish families. Of these, we might also assume that many are simply 'in-between' jobs.

Now, once all this is taken into account we can look a bit below, I think it was around page 15-17 on the CSO census report used by the Journal, where it has the percentages of unemployed foreigners in relation to those who are at work - and, shock horror, it's almost identical to the Irish case. Except for the case of Nigerians and one or two other nationalities, it seems.

So what do you propose, when the statistics put foreigners in pretty much the same likelihood as an Irish person to be unemployed (they actually have a much better chance of being employed than a returning Irish person), we are to do? Do we simply book a foreign person a flight home as soon as they lose a job? Do we deny people who may have lived here for years or decades the right to claim any unemployment benefit? Thats it, you're out on the street?

greendom

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Small majority? Id say its a large minority.

Sorry that was a typo - now corrected

Latchy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Dont UKIP want to deport welfare tourists and not just cut them off?

Yes and with one million + young British people unemployed they want British people put first when it comes to jobs ,housing, etc especially with all the austerity measures in place and before the influx of more East Europeans

Latchy

Latchy wrote: »

Yes and with one million + young British people unemployed they want British people put first when it comes to jobs ,housing, etc especially with all the austerity measures in place and before the influx of more East Europeans

Which is all well and good until you have some scally who can hardly read or write write show up in a tracksuit at your business for an interview. Watch an episode of Jeremy kyle and try to imagine employment roles in which to place these people.

mikemac1

UKIP aren't some radical fringe party.
They have overtaken the Lib Dems in recent polls

Anyway the British PM waded into a similar issue a few years back

Gordon Brown has no regrets over using the phrase "British jobs for British workers", Downing Street insisted today as a series of unofficial strikes broke out over UK construction jobs awarded to European workers.

As anger intensified over plans by oil companies to employ Portuguese and Italian workers, the prime minister said that he understood people's concerns.

Asked whether the prime minister regretted using the controversial phrase, branded illegal and racist by critics, his spokesman in London said: "I don't see any reason for regret. The action that we have taken has meant that we are now putting in place measures that ensure British workers can have access to the vacancies in the system."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/jan/30/brown-british-jobs-workers

One day the UKIP will be even bigger and will be securely the 3rd largest party , that's a way off yet though

WayneMolloy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Which is all well and good until you have some scally who can hardly read or write write show up in a tracksuit at your business for an interview. Watch an episode of Jeremy kyle and try to imagine employment roles in which to place these people.

First, you told me to leave my country, then you suggested that I was a council house dweller and now you are saying that a million plus young British people are unemployable.

I bet that you see yourself as an enlightened sort too.

WayneMolloy

Latchy wrote: »

Yes and with one million + young British people unemployed they want British people put first when it comes to jobs ,housing, etc especially with all the austerity measures in place and before the influx of more East Europeans

I dont see an issue with that, even if Irish people suffer. Citizens of a country should always come first imho.

WayneMolloy

WayneMolloy wrote: »

First, you told me to leave my country, then you suggested that I was a council house dweller and now you are saying that a million plus young British people are unemployable.

I bet that you see yourself as an enlightened sort too. :<

Did I? When did I say this now? Regarding your council house exploits, have you seen your 'location'?

It's just so easy to poke holes in your outdated, ignorant, uninformed and xenophobic rhetoric. It's a load of crap. As shown by your inability to back up any of the ludicrous claims that you're making. It's all word of mouth and a few "OMG foreigners" statistics that when you break them down are completely average and normal for the time we are living in.

You're not some free thinker who's blowing holes in a massive foreign invasion conspiracy. You're lying and massaging truths to make your poor starting argument seem somewhat relevant. It isn't.

WayneMolloy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Did I? When did I say this now? Regarding your council house exploits, have you seen your 'location'?

It's just so easy to poke holes in your outdated, ignorant, uninformed and xenophobic rhetoric. It's a load of crap. As shown by your inability to back up any of the ludicrous claims that you're making. It's all word of mouth and a few "OMG foreigners" statistics that when you break them down are completely average and normal for the time we are living in.

You're not some free thinker who's blowing holes in a massive foreign invasion conspiracy. You're lying and massaging truths to make your poor starting argument seem somewhat relevant. It isn't.

All the stats come from the cso and environs.ie

Thats not ill informed rhetoric, buddy. Thats using offical sites and statistics to back up my points. I have not lied, as that would mean that I plucked the figures out of thin air - I havent.

If you migrate to a new country, the onus is on you to provide for yourself. Not the new country. If you cant pay your way, look for a higher paid position. If that doesnt look like being bearing fruition, and you are about to become a burden on the state - its ryanair time.

And its not normal to have 30, 000 non irish families on the housing list, 20-25 percent of eastern europeans on the dooe, near 40 percent of our largest african minority on the dole and 70 nationalities waiting for free housing in f*cking fingal.

If thats perfectly normal, id hate to see it when it becomes an issue!

Latchy

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Which is all well and good until you have some scally who can hardly read or write write show up in a tracksuit at your business for an interview. Watch an episode of Jeremy kyle and try to imagine employment roles in which to place these people.

You're describing a particular type of stereotype which makes up a % of the British population but which doesn't really describe the many youth who do their best at school and college and don't run around in feral gangs . The people on Jeremy Kyle are to be found in every country be it UK ,Ireland , USA and a big % of east European's who settle in UK do so because it's such a soft touch if your career is based around serious crime .The British people have had enough so while Camerons two year rule cap on benefits and social housing from immigrant's is to be welcomed, many see it as political gain and something we should have happened some years ago anyway .

WayneMolloy wrote: »

I dont see an issue with that, even if Irish people suffer. Citizens of a country should always come first imho.

I agree but the political climate we live will have many claiming it's to far right when it's nothing of the sort but either way ,with these new austerity cuts kicking in next month ,you can expect UKIP to gain more votes at election time because just about everybody wants the Torys out ,

greendom

The rise of UKIP looks like it will force all political parties to take a much more reactionary knee-jerk position on immigration. Lowest Common Denominator politics unfortunately.

WayneMolloy

greendom wrote: »

The rise of UKIP looks like it will force all political parties to take a much more reactionary knee-jerk position on immigration. Lowest Common Denominator politics unfortunately.

Every opinion poll conducted on the issue has concluded that the public, in both the UK and Ireland, want a clampdown on immigration.

Its what the people want.

greendom

WayneMolloy wrote: »

Every opinion poll conducted on the issue has concluded that the public, in both the UK and Ireland, want a clampdown on immigration.

Its what the people want.

Doesn't make it the right thing. There's probably a majority in both countries who would favour Capital Punishment for example.