Justice Minster Alan Shatter opinions on the man

Sergeant

omahaid wrote: »

I don't think it is sickening at all. Remember that if we had competent politicians for the last 20 years there would be no cuts. But obviously you prefer Bertie "pint of bass" and cutting garda wages to competence.

I couldn't give a fuck if he appears aloof or arrogant, I want competence and honesty.

Great post. Shatter has an abrasive style, but, as I mentioned earlier, having the 'ah sure I love da crack and a day in da bookeys' personality of Ahern doesn't do us any favours.

Alan Shatter has a fine legal mind, and is doing his very best in extraordinary economic circumstances. It doesn't matter to the usual band of whiners, me-feiners and loony left types who seem to think that a utopia is always possible.

Utterly deluded individuals.

omahaid

leggo wrote: »

I think painting it as an either/or situation is massively simplifying the argument; as if suggesting that a politician who relates to the general public can't possibly be competent, and vice versa.

I agree with you, it's not an either/or situation. But we have what we have and if he's honest and competent (which I believe him to be) then that's the minimum I require.

Yitzhak Rabin

Ranicand wrote: »

Disgusting.

No, what is disgusting is your posting history. I've just skimmed over it. You have an unhealthy obsession with all things Jew related. I'm beginning to think it had a part to play in you starting this thread.

But its clear that Shatter's high level of intelligence, his analytical skills, and his private success intimidates people, so he is branded as being aloof and arrogant.

Nodin

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

No, what is disgusting is your posting history. I've just skimmed over it. You have an unhealthy obsession with all things Jew related. I'm beginning to think it had a part to play in you starting this thread.

...........

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Neadine

I don't think the man is even worth discussing.

Vizzy

omahaid wrote: »

I don't think it is sickening at all. Remember that if we had competent politicians for the last 20 years there would be no cuts. But obviously you prefer Bertie "pint of bass" and cutting garda wages to competence.

I couldn't give a fuck if he appears aloof or arrogant, I want competence and honesty.

I don't give a **** if he is aloof either.
It's the fact that some people think that he has some superiority over those "less intelligent than him" that gets me.
If he is a solicitor practicing law he can be as aloof and as arrogant as he wants.In fact it would probably be a good character trait for a solicitor.But you can choose to engage his services or not.
But as a minister in probably one of the most influential ministries in the country it is a bit hard to swallow to be regarded as not being intelligent enough to know what is right and wrong in the country.

leggo

Sergeant wrote: »

Alan Shatter has a fine legal mind, and is doing his very best in extraordinary economic circumstances. It doesn't matter to the usual band of whiners, me-feiners and loony left types who seem to think that a utopia is always possible.

Utterly deluded individuals.

Just a few posts ago, I half-joked that Shatter considered people disagreeing with his policies 'whining'. Wow, I can't believe someone just backed up that view so quickly.

When you're unhappy about being cut to the brim of financial ruin...it's not whining. It is, in fact, a perfectly valid response to being forced to saddle the weight of public debt despite doing a job that's essential to the maintenance of a safe state. And it's downright insulting to be treated as if you're a 'whiner', 'me-feiner' or 'loony left type' to feel that way. As if it's a utopian view to think that you should be entitled to afford to keep a roof over your family's head for doing this service to the state.

You may not have realised it, but you sir have just validated exactly what's wrong with Alan Shatter's attitude.

Miss Lockhart

I don't think he is suited to the job he is supposed to be doing.

I think his arrogance and condescension are a large part of the reason he is not competent and I certainly see no evidence he is more intelligent than me.

I find the implication that we should bow down to his intelligence or defer to his supposed brilliance quite sickening.

Busted Flat.

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

No, what is disgusting is your posting history. I've just skimmed over it. You have an unhealthy obsession with all things Jew related. I'm beginning to think it had a part to play in you starting this thread.

But its clear that Shatter's high level of intelligence, his analytical skills, and his private success intimidates people, so he is branded as being aloof and arrogant.

Typical whinge, a poster makes a point regarding the Malvinas, he is a brit hater, criticize someone of the jewish faith you are anti semitic. Get a life and move into the twenty first century. Stop the whingeing the war and the crimes of that war is over, nearly seventy years ago. I will not go into the war crimes that is happening in Palistine.

Sergeant

Vizzy wrote: »

But as a minister in probably one of the most influential ministries in the country it is a bit hard to swallow to be regarded as not being intelligent enough to know what is right and wrong in the country.

Any examples of what he is doing wrong? We live in one of the safest countries in the world. We do not have a crime epidemic, or any other sensationalist gibberish used to sell papers or TV3 shows.

The man is a noted liberal when it comes to matters of justice. A liberal in general actually.

omahaid

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

I don't think he is suited to the job he is supposed to be doing.

I think his arrogance and condescension are a large part of the reason he is not competent and I certainly see no evidence he is more intelligent than me.

I find the implication that we should bow down to his intelligence or defer to his supposed brilliance quite sickening.

Again with the word sickening? I hope he is brilliant, it would make a change. Anyway, regardless of what we might think here, FG got a nice pat on the back in Meath. I didn't vote FG btw and I'm not convinced austerity is the right way.

orestes

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

No, what is disgusting is your posting history. I've just skimmed over it. You have an unhealthy obsession with all things Jew related. I'm beginning to think it had a part to play in you starting this thread.

But its clear that Shatter's high level of intelligence, his analytical skills, and his private success intimidates people, so he is branded as being aloof and arrogant.

Wait for it......

Nodin

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Typical whinge, a poster makes a point regarding the Malvinas, he is a brit hater, criticize someone of the jewish faith you are anti semitic. /..........

You don't think these comments are anti-semitic?

Yet I bet you would fiy of the handle if I suggested we should reduce the toxic influence of Jewish Hollywood

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83446320&postcount=36

All Hollywood studios are Jewish owned and run.
Hollywood movies are full of casual sex drug use and violence.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83446744&postcount=63

Classic examples, I would have said.

Miss Lockhart

omahaid wrote: »

Again with the word sickening? I hope he is brilliant, it would make a change. Anyway, regardless of what we might think here, FG got a nice pat on the back in Meath. I didn't vote FG btw and I'm not convinced austerity is the right way.

Yes sickening. That's the effect it has on me. There's several online thesauri if you want to insert an alternative more to your taste.

cloudybins

He is a gentleman, scholar and quite the dancer I understand.

tayto lover

Neadine wrote: »

I don't think the man is even worth discussing.

Yes but Fianna Fail seem to be delighted with him.

omahaid

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

Yes sickening. That's the effect it has on me. There's several online thesauri if you want to insert an alternative more to your taste.

I had a quick look, deluded is the word the several online thesauri returned.

Ranicand

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Typical whinge, a poster makes a point regarding the Malvinas, he is a brit hater, criticize someone of the jewish faith you are anti semitic. Get a life and move into the twenty first century. Stop the whingeing the war and the crimes of that war is over, nearly seventy years ago. I will not go into the war crimes that is happening in Palistine.

I was banned for 3 weeks for the posts they keep bringing up which were true.

Now the very people who played the victim card say we should shut up and be grateful to have people ruling us who are more intelligent then us.

Vizzy

Sergeant wrote: »

Any examples of what he is doing wrong? We live in one of the safest countries in the world. We do not have a crime epidemic, or any other sensationalist gibberish used to sell papers or TV3 shows.

The man is a noted liberal when it comes to matters of justice. A liberal in general actually.

Ok,I'll ask you this,do you think that he has handled the whole "Garda walkout" thing well or do you think that he has improved or disimproved his persona to the man in the street ?
Competent he may be,a fine legal mind he may have but he hasn't a clue how to conduct himself in public.

leggo

omahaid wrote: »

Again with the word sickening? I hope he is brilliant, it would make a change. Anyway, regardless of what we might think here, FG got a nice pat on the back in Meath. I didn't vote FG btw and I'm not convinced austerity is the right way.

Totally irrelevant, to the point that I feel you should declare any conflict of interest here because you're pushing the exact FG party line by claiming that as a victory for party policies.

It was a clear sympathy vote for a by-election caused by tragic, extraordinary circumstances...which had a shocking voter turnout. It was, in nobody's language, a 'pat on the back' for FG. It was a shrewd political move by them to maintain their seat, that's the best I can say. Fianna Fáil, shockingly, were the true political victors of that by-election and Labour were the clear losers (there's your punishment for government policy; Labour was the fall guy). Fine Gael just pulled a fast one by entering Helen as the candidate.

Nodin

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes but Fianna Fail seem to be delighted with him.

..which is a bit much, considering that McDowell eejit they let in there. And P Flynn. P Flynn, for fecks sake.

omahaid

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes but Fianna Fail seem to be delighted with him.

Course they are, he's unpopular. Judging by the polls we'll have FF back soon. We'll be getting on the property ladder again soon.

humbert

He's doing something, he's getting a lot of negative press over it and he's not backing down. It's refreshing.

Sergeant

leggo wrote: »

Totally irrelevant, to the point that I feel you should declare any conflict of interest here because you're pushing the exact FG party line by claiming that as a victory for party policies.

It was a clear sympathy vote for a by-election caused by tragic, extraordinary circumstances...which had a shocking voter turnout. It was, in nobody's language, a 'pat on the back' for FG. It was a shrewd political move by them to maintain their seat, that's the best I can say.

Explain the opinion polls then?

omahaid

leggo wrote: »

Totally irrelevant, to the point that I feel you should declare any conflict of interest here because you're pushing the exact FG party line by claiming that as a victory for party policies.

It was a clear sympathy vote for a by-election caused by tragic, extraordinary circumstances...which had a shocking voter turnout. It was, in nobody's language, a 'pat on the back' for FG. It was a shrewd political move by them to maintain their seat, that's the best I can say.

I have no relative, friend or acquaintance in any way part of the FG party, nor am I btw. Is there anything else you would like me to declare? Feel free to examine my posting history.

cloudybins

humbert wrote: »

He's doing something, he's getting a lot of negative press over it and he's not backing down. It's refreshing.

Kudos to you sir. takes a brave man to stand against the mob.

leggo

Sergeant wrote: »

Explain the opinion polls then?

The fact that the party who has committed the biggest financial atrocity in the history of the state is creeping up on a government with a MASSIVE majority just a couple of years removed from said disaster? FF's comeback in the opinion polls speaks volume of the public mistrust for FG and Labour. Labour are just an easy fall guy for now. If FG were doing the bang-up job you seem to think they are, they'd pick up the Labour votes and have a massive lead. And I'm not even anti-FG, just saying what I see.

If anything, I'd say the story the opinion polls tell us is that the public is really, really stuck for options right now.

omahaid

leggo wrote: »

It was a clear sympathy vote for a by-election caused by tragic, extraordinary circumstances...which had a shocking voter turnout. It was, in nobody's language, a 'pat on the back' for FG. It was a shrewd political move by them to maintain their seat, that's the best I can say. Fianna Fáil, shockingly, were the true political victors of that by-election and Labour were the clear losers (there's your punishment for government policy; Labour was the fall guy). Fine Gael just pulled a fast one by entering Helen as the candidate.

And, I wouldn't have voted for a FG candidate and I definitely wouldn't have voted for a "dynasty" candidate.

Miss Lockhart

omahaid wrote: »

I had a quick look, deluded is the word the several online thesauri returned.

If you want to prostrate yourself before Shatter and glorify his intelligence as superior to your own then go right ahead. I have no intention of so I'll thank you not to bother attributing incorrect descriptions to me when you have no clue about me.

tayto lover

Sergeant wrote: »

Explain the opinion polls then?

The poor turnout is a direct symptom of the politics we are getting in Ireland.
Even with the unfortunate death of her father FG barely scraped the seat and the vast majority of the population stayed at home. I expected a landslide win.

HondaSami

Sergeant wrote: »

Any examples of what he is doing wrong? We live in one of the safest countries in the world. We do not have a crime epidemic, or any other sensationalist gibberish used to sell papers or TV3 shows.

This is all down to Alan Shatter is it? He had dealt with the situation in AGS badly, he comes across as a bully, he has to be right maybe he needs to choose his words more carefully.

Sergeant

leggo wrote: »

The fact that the party who has committed the biggest financial atrocity in the history of the state is creeping up on a government with a MASSIVE majority just a couple of years removed from said disaster? FF's comeback in the opinion polls speaks volume of the public mistrust for FG and Labour.

If anything, I'd say the story the opinion polls tell us is that the public is really, really stuck for options right now.

What are the options? How would they restore the country to the level we expect without having to raise taxes or cutting service?

Ming Flanagan and Mick Wallace? A couple of layabouts sitting up in the peripheries of the chamber spouting the type of gibberish that belongs in a fantasy novel. Refunding the property tax like SF are suggesting?

History will record this government as one of the finest we have had.

Busted Flat.

HondaSami wrote: »

This is all down to Alan Shatter is it? He had dealt with the situation in AGS badly, he comes across as a bully, he has to be right maybe he needs to choose his words more carefully.

That is like the teacher telling the school bully, don't do it in the yard, do it behind the shed.

HondaSami

Sergeant wrote: »

History will record this government as one of the finest we have had.

Seriously they haven't much competition, do you not think it's us the people who are taking most of the pain?

Yitzhak Rabin

HondaSami wrote: »

Seriously they haven't much competition, do you not think it's us the people who are taking most of the pain?

Us the people taking the pain, as apposed to what? Let the horses take the pain?

HondaSami

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Us the people taking the pain, as apposed to what? Let the horses take the pain?

You don't think politicians and bankers should take more pain? It's no wonder we take everything so calmly in this country, it's the reason this government have walked all over us and I fcuking voted for them.

leggo

Sergeant wrote: »

What are the options? How would they restore the country to the level we expect without having to raise taxes or cutting service?

Ming Flanagan and Mick Wallace? A couple of layabouts sitting up in the peripheries of the chamber spouting the type of gibberish that belongs in a fantasy novel. Refunding the property tax like SF are suggesting?

History will record this government as one of the finest we have had.

We're getting off-topic now, as I've said I'm not even anti-FG/Labour, just correcting some party propaganda being spouted.

For the record, my view of this government is that it's well-intentioned, getting results in some areas (returning Ireland to the bond markets, slowly but surely lowering unemployment etc), massively failing in others (HEALTH) and careless/heavy-handed at times in how they go about their goals. They lack a grand vision, though, and seem to be just plugging holes instead of creating a sustainable future. Do I believe they'll bring us back to competence? Yes. Bringing prosperity and a future we can get behind to Ireland? That's above them.

They're kinda like a football side who do well to get promoted to the Premier League, then the manager is completely out of his depth once they get there. No they won't be anywhere near one of the finest governments this state has ever seen (that's hyperbolic to the point that I can only assume that Good Friday pints aren't treating you well :pac:), but they might be a suitable stopgap at best.

But we're talking about Alan Shatter here. And he falls very much into the careless/heavy-handed category for me.

Yitzhak Rabin

Miss Lockhart wrote: »

If you want to prostrate yourself before Shatter and glorify his intelligence as superior to your own then go right ahead. I have no intention of so I'll thank you not to bother attributing incorrect descriptions to me when you have no clue about me.

Why is someone being incredibly sharp and competent seen as such a negative attribute? Its as if us Irish have some kind of inferiority complex where we immediately begrudge and are suspicious of intelligent successful people.

I am glad to have a minister with a track record for writing legislation and success in the private sector in government. It doesn't make me uncomfortable to say he's a more intelligent man than I.

tayto lover

Sergeant wrote: »

What are the options? How would they restore the country to the level we expect without having to raise taxes or cutting service?

Ming Flanagan and Mick Wallace? A couple of layabouts sitting up in the peripheries of the chamber spouting the type of gibberish that belongs in a fantasy novel. Refunding the property tax like SF are suggesting?

History will record this government as one of the finest we have had.

Pure ******* delusion :D:D
They looked after their own just like Fianna Fail did.

HondaSami

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Why is someone being incredibly sharp and competent seen as such a negative attribute? Its as if us Irish have some kind of inferiority complex where we immediately begrudge and are suspicious of intelligent successful people.

I am glad to have a minister with a track record for writing legislation and success in the private sector in government. It doesn't make me uncomfortable to say he's a more intelligent man than I.

I don't think anyone could question his intelligence, it's his manner that's wrong. He does not come across as a people person.

Yitzhak Rabin

HondaSami wrote: »

You don't think politicians and bankers should take more pain? It's no wonder we take everything so calmly in this country, it's the reason this government have walked all over us and I fcuking voted for them.

Can you remember what the first thing that this government did when it took power? It was to take a voluntary pay cut, and it reduced the pay of all politicians. Honestly, I don't think people will be happy until a minister earns the same as barber. They work in incredibly high pressure, important jobs. If we hope to attract high calibre candidates to the position (such as Shatter) then the pay has to reflect the gravitas of the job.

As for the bankers. Yes I would like to see the shysters who ran the banks as their own personal slush funds locked up and stripped of their assets. But I am also sensible enough to realise that this is not going to fix the economy. Its an unrelated issue.

Sergeant

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Us the people taking the pain, as apposed to what? Let the horses take the pain?

Ya, why can't we have public services like we had 7 years ago. That whole selling houses to each other, cheap credit and FF-led governments buying elections by bloating up the public sector.

It must be the reason why social democrats like Shatter and Burton are putting aside their principles to implement changes that will eventually return this country to sustainability.

Lots of utter drivel being spouted here tonight by honchos who have all the questions and none of the answers.

Miss Lockhart

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Why is someone being incredibly sharp and competent seen as such a negative attribute? Its as if us Irish have some kind of inferiority complex where we immediately begrudge and are suspicious of intelligent successful people.

I am glad to have a minister with a track record for writing legislation and success in the private sector in government. It doesn't make me uncomfortable to say he's a more intelligent man than I.

Where did I say intelligence or competence is a negative attribute? I think they are valuable assets. I am neither begrudging nor suspicious of Shatter.

I think he is arrogant and condescending and I think he is not doing a good job. And contrary to your earlier assertion, thst doesn't mean I'm less intelligent than him, or jealous of him, or anything else other than unhappy with him as a minister.

strongback

I don't post here much but would I be right in saying there are a few party political hacks on this board. The guy Sergeant seems to have the sole purposes of countering any post that might be seen as anti Fine Gael.

Seems pointless getting involved if that type of spam is the norm.

HondaSami

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Can you remember what the first thing that this government did when it took power? It was to take a voluntary pay cut, and it reduced the pay of all politicians. Honestly, I don't think people will be happy until a minister earns the same as barber. They work in incredibly high pressure, important jobs. If we hope to attract high calibre candidates to the position (such as Shatter) then the pay has to reflect the gravitas of the job.

As for the bankers. Yes I would like to see the shysters who ran the banks as their own personal slush funds locked up and stripped of their assets. But I am also sensible enough to realise that this is not going to fix the economy. Its an unrelated issue.

Yes i remember but it was not enough, i don't expect them to work for nothing but they expect me to work for less and less and you to i assume, we have all had pay cuts.
I think they could cut some of the expenses, coming out telling us to take the pain this time it's the last paycut we will ask from ye, where does it stop?
Cutting sunday pay and allowances for AGS is not fair, it's a hard job with tough unsociable hours.

Yitzhak Rabin

Sergeant wrote: »

Ya, why can't we have public services like we had 7 years ago. That whole selling houses to each other, cheap credit and FF-led governments buying elections by bloating up the public sector.

It must be the reason why social democrats like Shatter and Burton are putting aside their principles to implement changes that will eventually return this country to sustainability.

Lots of utter drivel being spouted here tonight by honchos who have all the questions and none of the answers.

The saddest part is, we're destined for it again

People won't give this government credit for balancing the books, and getting the country back on track. They'll listen to FF and SF-lite and be taken in with promises of increases in social welfare, property tax refunds, and reduced taxes.

The cycle will continue.

tayto lover

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

The saddest part is, we're destined for it again

People won't give this government credit for balancing the books, and getting the country back on track. They'll listen to FF and SF-lite and be taken in with promises of increases in social welfare, property tax refunds, and reduced taxes.

The cycle will continue.

Even more lies than the last time then :pac:

HondaSami

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

The saddest part is, we're destined for it again

People won't give this government credit for balancing the books, and getting the country back on track. They'll listen to FF and SF-lite and be taken in with promises of increases in social welfare, property tax refunds, and reduced taxes.

The cycle will continue.

What did FG promise us? They all make promises until they get elected and then they forget. I will say FG have had a tough time in government which is not their doing.

There will be no refunds and anyone that thinks there will is mad.

leggo

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

The saddest part is, we're destined for it again

People won't give this government credit for balancing the books, and getting the country back on track. They'll listen to FF and SF-lite and be taken in with promises of increases in social welfare, property tax refunds, and reduced taxes.

The cycle will continue.

If that happens, though, it's their own fault. We forget that Irish people still grumbled all throughout 'the good times', yet they still re-elected FF at every general election. That's what Irish voters do: we moan then maintain with the status quo as long as our actual day-to-day problems don't last longer than our moans.

If FG don't get re-elected, it'll be down to a combination of their efforts missing the mark and not being able to reflect the positive changes they have made in their campaign. Not, again, because the public are less intelligent than them. Though they may feel it's the latter. And that's why that arrogant attitude is damaging.

Pappa Charlie

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

The saddest part is, we're destined for it again

People won't give this government credit for balancing the books, and getting the country back on track. They'll listen to FF and SF-lite and be taken in with promises of increases in social welfare, property tax refunds, and reduced taxes.

The cycle will continue.

They are puppets for the troika, they have no balls and no imagination, they really tackled the RTE saleries for example but then again they need RTE on their side! Nothing but broken promises and the same ****! When the Celtic tiger was in full flight all they did in opposition was bemoan that enough was not being spent or tax breaks given. People like you have short memories!!