Graves vandalized and desecrated

fasttalkerchat

GRMA wrote: »

They said that to try and drum up publicity and support for themselves... ie it was aimed at them because they are the real republicans like Tom Barry and co hence they were both targeted.

That's what I was thinking.

GRMA

gurramok wrote: »

So a misguided TV3 program incited this hatred?

No, of course not, but the shoneens will try to say that it was...

In my head I can already see a "Needless to say I don't agree with these actions whatsoever but it shows that the legacy of the IRA and their until now little spoken of atrocities still hasn't been come to terms with by the public. Now that these things are being spoken of and the myths around these "heroes" dispelled its only natural that people feel betrayed by their one time heroes once they see the reality and totality of their actions" type article in a sunday newspaper

kowloon

OCorcrainn wrote: »

It is not, there were swastikas and slurs drawn on the headstones, this is more than a coincidence as this weekend is the commemoration of 1916.

I know, what I meant was I expected it to be a case of scrap thievery when I first opened the thread. As scummy as it is to crowbar plates off a memorial there is motive in the personal gain.

Desecrating graves/headstones/memorials just for the sake of it is more scummy in my pinion, even if paint and marker is more easily remedied than a missing chunk of bronze.

darkdubh

Queen-Mise wrote: »

I wonder if it is not the desecration of the graves he agreed with, but rather the disagreeing that they are hero's of this country.
And maybe he is implying that karma has re-payed them this way for what they did 90 odd years ago. They desecrated Dublin and now their graves have been desecrated.

Albeit is is a VERY odd comment. The above is the only possible explanation I can think of.




This is the only place it is. It isn't on any media outlets as yet.

Would You care to explain how Cork based Republicans desecrated Dublin as You put it.

Rioghain

The memorial is the first thing you come to when you walk in the gates of St. Finbarr's, and my guess is it is the local scumbags that either don't know or don't care about our history.

Somebody already mentioned that graves in St. Joseph's cemetery nearby have also been vandalised, so maybe they are doing the rounds. I know teenagers go drinking in St. Joseph's so they may have had something to do with that.

My grandad is buried in St. Finbarr's and I would be devastated if anybody vandalised his grave, so hopefully this was a once off.

AlekSmart

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Even if it's true, chilling as it sounds, it was during a time of war. Do you expect that those who were fighting the War of Independence against British forces build a state-of-the-art prison and keep their captured Black and Tans and spies in the face of a struggle against overwhelming force?

Also,are you trying develop a broader understanding or are you simply engaging in magnifying the violence of one side while ignoring the context? For a little balance let's consider the violence against those seeking independence:

Somewhat too tit-for-tattery for me,I'm afraid,contextual or not.

There's plenty of active debate elsewhere on the "War" of Independence,even if it usually ends up with grave beardy academics each dissing the others statistics.

Whilst the TV3 series may have ruffled the groves of Academia sure nuff,the bould Martin Corry never hid his light under any bushel..I found this WiKi entry to be quite illuminating in a quirky kinda way..

In the 1938 debate on the Anglo-Irish Trade Agreement which ceded the Treaty Ports to the Irish state, Corry expressed regret that Northern Ireland remained excluded, suggesting "I personally am in favour of storing up sufficient poison gas, so that when you get the wind in the right direction you can start at the Border and let it travel, and follow it."In a 1942 debate on exporting food to Great Britain during World War II, Corry remarked about food shortages there that "They have no more rabbits to get, and now they are on the crows",and "I would not like to see too many crows going out to feed them. I think the crows are too good for them".

The modern Oireachtas Member simply does'nt get as worked up these days.

In general though,as I've aged,and broadened my understanding of human behaviour (;)) I've come to appreciate Henry Ford's thoughts on History...

http://passionforthepast.blogspot.ie/2008/07/history-is-bunk-what-henry-ford-really.html

wolfpawnat

What I find shocking is the fact the desecrated the republican plot and then went off to find Tom Barry's grave, which is located elsewhere in the cemetery. An absolute disgrace, no matter what your leanings, a persons final resting place is sacred. I have been to the graves of loyalist and unionist hero's and though I have little good to say of them, I would treat their graves with at least some dignity. A far cry from these bástards!

Tis true what I have heard said about my birth county in recent times, the only rebel thing the Rebel county ever rebelled against, was rebelling! not to mention "The only rebel they had they shot". Ashamed does not cover my emotion for this. What the hell sort of place is this if graves risk vandalism? Were I in Cork, I would be the first to help clean the graves. No one would like it done to their own families, why the hell do it to others!

getzls

Totally wrong to desecrate any grave.
Even those who some would regard as terrorists ones.

Galwayguy35

getzls wrote: »

Totally wrong to desecrate any grave.
Even those who some would regard as terrorists ones.

And why would anyone regard these men as "terrorists"?

At first I thought is was done by a bunch of skangers who probably couldn't even spell the word "history" but now I'm not so sure.

Grand Moff Tarkin

Mr. Wong wrote: »

Karma's a bitch.

Sad to think such brave men laid down their lives for the likes of you and the people who "thanked" your post.

Also what is the obsession with people wanting to know if it is reported in national media outlets?

Qualitymark

What baffles me is the swastikas.

wolfpawnat

Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »

Also what is the obsession with people wanting to know if it is reported in national media outlets?

Well considering other things that have made the national news. It is sickening that something as horrible as grave desecration has not been reported than a few lines here and there. I understand not wanting to fuel these bástards and highlight their actions, but still.

Lelantos

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Well considering other things that have made the national news. It is sickening that something as horrible as grave desecration has not been reported than a few lines here and there. I understand not wanting to fuel these bástards and highlight their actions, but still.

Graves get desecrated everyday. Headstones vandalised, tributes stolen, obscenities scribbled in permanent marker, alcohol parties held on top of plots, saw it all during a summer job I had many moons ago. If someone of note has their grave desecrated it makes the local papers & that's it.

wolfpawnat

Lelantos wrote: »

Graves get desecrated everyday. Headstones vandalised, tributes stolen, obscenities scribbled in permanent marker, alcohol parties held on top of plots, saw it all during a summer job I had many moons ago. If someone of note has their grave desecrated it makes the local papers & that's it.

Could you imagine what would be said if someone went into Glasnevin and did it, or Westminister Abbey? Yes graves get desecrated often enough, especially ones in disused churches, but these people used an important week in the Republican calender, knowing there would be masses and meetings held in graveyards such as this. Meaning this is not just idiot youths, these people went out of their way to go around and find Tom Barry's grave too. They are some disgraceful human beings.

I would condemn grave desecration of high profile unionists coming up to mid July just as quick!

Lelantos

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Could you imagine what would be said if someone went into Glasnevin and did it, or Westminister Abbey? Yes graves get desecrated often enough, especially ones in disused churches, but these people used an important week in the Republican calender, knowing there would be masses and meetings held in graveyards such as this. Meaning this is not just idiot youths, these people went out of their way to go around and find Tom Barry's grave too. They are some disgraceful human beings.

I would condemn grave desecration of high profile unionists coming up to mid July just as quick!

Most likely its not political, this happens very often, as I said, I used to clean 2-3 a week over the summer in a large & used graveyard, not an abandoned unit. It's nearly always done by teens, and while it wasn't a coincidence that those graves were desecrated, the fact swastikas etc were used would lead me to believe its stupid & ignorant teens looking to be hard men amongst their peers.

wolfpawnat

Lelantos wrote: »

Most likely its not political, this happens very often, as I said, I used to clean 2-3 a week over the summer in a large & used graveyard, not an abandoned unit. It's nearly always done by teens, and while it wasn't a coincidence that those graves were desecrated, the fact swastikas etc were used would lead me to believe its stupid & ignorant teens looking to be hard men amongst their peers.

Tom Barry is located in a completely different area of the graveyard, and the week they chose. Anyone who thinks it was a random attack is in a serious denial. Youths wouldn't put that much effort in to "a bit of fun" sadly there are some, and often the likes of boards shows them and their thinking, that think the Republican movement is extreme right wing as opposed to left wing. :rolleyes: Mis-education and revisionism has a lot to answer for.

Lelantos

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Tom Barry is located in a completely different area of the graveyard, and the week they chose. Anyone who thinks it was a random attack is in a serious denial. Youths wouldn't put that much effort in to "a bit of fun" sadly there are some, and often the likes of boards shows them and their thinking, that think the Republican movement is extreme right wing as opposed to left wing. :rolleyes: Mis-education and revisionism has a lot to answer for.

I did say it wasn't coincidental, it wasn't fun either, but as for it being a concerted effort against the republican heroes of yore, no I don't think so, and you can roll your eyes as much as you wish

wolfpawnat

Lelantos wrote: »

I did say it wasn't coincidental, it wasn't fun either, but as for it being a concerted effort against the republican heroes of yore, no I don't think so, and you can roll your eyes as much as you wish

My eye rolling is in regards to calling extreme left extreme right. It is like saying black is white.

There are theories going around at why it was done, but these so far are mere theories. Attacks to instigate anger particular political groups and the like, but as I say, mere theories. Few of which I would believe. I doubt the attack was on Tom Barry and Terence McSweeney personally, but it could be for what they stood for.

Lelantos

wolfpawnat wrote: »

My eye rolling is in regards to calling extreme left extreme right. It is like saying black is white.

There are theories going around at why it was done, but these so far are mere theories. Attacks to instigate anger particular political groups and the like, but as I say, mere theories. Few of which I would believe. I doubt the attack was on Tom Barry and Terence McSweeney personally, but it could be for what they stood for.

I made no mention of left or right wing. I just mentioned the desecration of the graves. The swastika (if that's was what you were referring to) was reported as being part of the desecration is what makes me think its teens, the racist "one fits all" symbol of the undeveloped mind.

wolfpawnat

Lelantos wrote: »

I made no mention of left or right wing. I just mentioned the desecration of the graves. The swastika (if that's was what you were referring to) was reported as being part of the desecration is what makes me think its teens, the racist "one fits all" symbol of the undeveloped mind.

Swastika is an extreme right symbol, republican is for the most part extreme left. I was not referring to your post, but to the idea of the symbols used in general. Yes the reference is accurate, one symbol fits all extreme beliefs as far as some are concerned, ergo the :rolleyes:

As I said, I doubt this is a direct attack on those buried there as people, but for what they stand for as a whole. The going out of the way to only attack those graves which are located in one area, then head to a completely different part of the graveyard, and find Tom Barry suggests to me it was not youths. Youths wouldn't be bothered going out of their way to go find another grave located elsewhere. There was a particular reason behind it and I for one am interested to find out what the hell it could possibly be.

getzls

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

And why would anyone regard these men as "terrorists"?

At first I thought is was done by a bunch of skangers who probably couldn't even spell the word "history" but now I'm not so sure.

Oh i think you know some people do.

The relatives of the people the IRA, old or new would not describe them as freedom fighters.

awec

Disgraceful act tbh.

Also pretty baffling, I don't get the swastika's at all.

UCDVet

Is it possible to vandalize a grave without desecrating it?

Ruudi_Mentari

In the name of our fathers, their guns and the holy ghost. Sad men

charlemont

This is the culprit...http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-charged-with-vandalising-historic-graves-29177711.html

o1s1n

Wow, gave his exact address too. He's fcuked.

Duggy747

Jaysus, that address is nice and accurate if one was to locate him.

Da Shins Kelly

Mr. Wong wrote: »

Karma's a bitch.

I can only assume that this idiotic comment was born out of complete ignorance of who theses historical figures were.

Disgraceful stuff anyway.

DEFTLEFTHAND

To interfere with anybody's final resting place is the ultimate disrespect. I don't care what political view points are in question, you never fcuk with a person's grave. Anyone who does is a complete plebiscite, the lowest common denominator.

Grand Moff Tarkin

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I can only assume that this idiotic comment was born out of complete ignorance of who theses historical figures were.

Disgraceful stuff anyway.

Did he even try and defend his comment or just more of the same tough Internet hard man act the same poster tries in any thread he posts in.

RoisinD

Glad to see that someone has been charged.
Same Mr. Cooper?
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/hse-employee-charged-with-theft-1.1254738

iDave

We live in a country were paramedics and firemen get attacked while on duty. As a result I am saddened by this but not shocked or surprised.

Sunnyisland

charlemont wrote: »

This is the culprit...http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/man-charged-with-vandalising-historic-graves-29177711.html

I assumed it was a group of young men fueled with alcohol not a fifty two year old fueled with alcohol,I am not playing down the seriousness of what he did in any shape or form but he certainly does not look well.

michael999999

realies wrote: »

I assumed it was a group of young men fueled with alcohol not a fifty two year old fueled with alcohol,I am not playing down the seriousness of what he did in any shape or form but he certainly does not look well.

I have a feeling things might be getting a whole lot worse for him!

Rasheed

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

I can only assume that this idiotic comment was born out of complete ignorance of who theses historical figures were.

Disgraceful stuff anyway.

Stil can't believe that same comment got 14 thanks.

Sunnyisland

Rasheed wrote: »

Still can't believe that same comment got 14 thanks.

Looking at some of the Posters that thanked him its not surprising at all

Rasheed

realies wrote: »

Looking at some of the Posters that thanked him its not surprising at all

Very valid point Realies!

.jacksparrow.

realies wrote: »

Looking at some of the Posters that thanked him its not surprising at all

Gay Byrne springs to mind,the type who loves to sit on his ivory tower condemning things that happend a hundred years ago not realising he got very rich from the outcome of the war of independence.not my words.

Sunnyisland

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Gay Byrne springs to mind,the type who loves to sit on his ivory tower condemning things that happened a hundred years ago not realising he got very rich from the outcome of the war of independence.not my words.

Didn't see Gay byrne thanks on the idiotic post :P:pac:

.jacksparrow.

realies wrote: »

Didn't see Gay byrne thanks on the idiotic post :P:pac:

Oh he's on boards alright,let there be no doubt!

OCorcrainn

I just cannot help but wonder, can you imagine what the national outcry and the headlines in the USA if it happened to Abraham Lincoln's grave, Charles De Gaulle in France or Winston Churchill's grave in the UK. But in Ireland there was not even a peep when it was our own.