Selling scrap metal after plumbing job

sullzz

mrcheez wrote: »

he'd be one customer short in a split second.

Lucky him , a bullet dodged I say

QBE

hiluxman wrote: »

i think QBE is on the ball,its like in my trade i prefer to supply the parts myself, as i pay trade and sell them a retail, its a little sweetner for doing the job, if the customer supplys the parts themselves i loose out a little bit and in general this type of customer is a hassley person to deal with due to the fact they have a slight bit of knowlege and think they know it all and that your only trying to cod them out of something.
its the same with the scrap parts left over at the end, I collect them and when i have enough ill way the scrap in

Its to bloody messy. Taking on contracts (even small change overs) without supplying the whole package. Call myself ole stock. If you wish. But Ill take responsibility and guarantee all services and materials supplied. but only on work I am supplying the whole package. I would avoid jobs outside this criteria. I would prefer to go hungry.

The scrap over the years. I use to put it in the stores and cash it in at xmas and divide among the apprentices. I am entering self employment now and If I have apprentices ill do the same.

QBE

sorry for adding to the tread. But thought id just ad this. As its amazing how profitable scrap can be.

I have a 15 year old son and For the last 18 mths of so. I have been bringing home. Used / faulty and replaced boilers & burners. I have a work shop in my garden. With fully functional system for testing oil burners and gas boilers. I take them apart with him. Find the faults. Remove workable parts. Like oil burner pumps , fans , circuit boards ect list them and stock them.

The young lad puts them on a website and sells them. What started out to be a learning curve for him. Has ended up in a nice bit of pocket money for him.

QBE

QBE wrote: »

sorry for adding to the tread. But thought id just ad this. As its amazing how profitable scrap can be.

I have a 15 year old son and For the last 18 mths of so. I have been bringing home. Used / faulty and replaced boilers & burners. I have a work shop in my garden. With fully functional system for testing oil burners and gas boilers. I take them apart with him. Find the faults. Remove workable parts. Like oil burner pumps , fans , circuit boards ect list them and stock them.

The young lad puts them on a website and sells them. What started out to be a learning curve for him. Has ended up in a nice bit of pocket money for him.

British gas did that for a few years till they were prosecuted after a incident.

As for the scrap issue, I wouldn't argue and I wouldn't come back, I detest pettiness.

QBE

gary71 wrote: »

British gas did that for a few years till they were prosecuted after a incident.

gary71 give it a break. he is not fitting them (experience tech should be and doing the safety check procedures. ). Gas heating probably one safest of safest heating boilers in the world and the oil burners should also be fitted by QBE (qualified by experience)

Domestic heating systems and boilers are not rocket science. Especially if a 15 year old schoolboy is more advanced than what is on offer.

.jacksparrow.

QBE wrote: »

gary71 give it a break. he is not fitting them (experience tech should be and doing the safety check procedures. ). Gas heating probably one safest heating in the world and the burners should also be fitted by QBE (qualified by experience)

Domestic heating systems and boilers are not rocket science. Especially if a 15 year old schoolboy is more advanced than what is on offer.

Do you mean domestic gas boilers?

Or industrial gas burners?

QBE

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Do you mean domestic gas boilers?

Or industrial gas burners?

sorry domestic boilers.


The young lad is quite good at the domestic oil burners is well. I have been teaching him with the domestic apliances. Smaller scale and then bring him up to the larger scale in time.

sullzz

QBE wrote: »

gas heating probably one safest of safest heating boilers in the world /quote]

But can be left as one of the most dangerous if worked on by an inexperienced or incompetent worker .

QBE

QBE wrote: »

gary71 give it a break. .

In what respect?

Taking parts off boilers isn't new and hasn't worked out well for some, which isn't widely known hence my post, as suppler you have some responsibility if there is a incident(god forbid). The problem BG had was manly to do with PCB's.

I had many years of removing and fitting secondhand parts for British Gas, so my experiences would be different to yours.

As for gas safety we're only as good as our last job, be it a 15 year old schoolboy or a grumpy old gas fitter who's still learning.

QBE

gary71 wrote: »

In what respect?

Taking parts off boilers isn't new

I had many years of removing and fitting secondhand parts .

As for gas safety we're only as good as a 15 year old schoolboy . who's still learning.

Sorry gary71. I had to edit that. Not to undermine your credibility or professionalism. But just my experience of the domestic market in general.

QBE

QBE wrote: »

Sorry gary71. I had to edit that. Not to undermine your credibility or professionalism. But just my experience of the domestic market in general.

:pac::pac::pac:

QBE

sullzz wrote: »

QBE wrote: »

gas heating probably one safest of safest heating boilers in the world /quote]

But can be left as one of the most dangerous if worked on by an inexperienced or incompetent worker .

ill agree they can be dangerous. My main fear is co2 with any boiler.

outside c02 issue. a pressurised cylinder fitted incorrect is a bigger safety hazard than any gas boiler and these are not regulated and the gas boilers are. But the majority of gas fitters have not been trained / incompetent with pressurised cylinders and visa versa. Don't make sense to me.

shane0007

The Green Party might agree with you but I usually find CO more dangerous to the homeowner than CO2!
I would also be very careful about selling second hand gas components. You are entering a whole different legal world then.

QBE

shane0007 wrote: »

The Green Party might agree with you but I usually find CO more dangerous to the homeowner than CO2!
I would also be very careful about selling second hand gas components. You are entering a whole different legal world then.

little typo sorry. I did mean that colorless, odourless gas. you have corrected me quite rightly.:(

QBE

QBE wrote: »

ill agree they can be dangerous. My main fear is co2 with any boiler.

outside c02 issue. a pressurised cylinder fitted incorrect is a bigger safety hazard than any gas boiler and these are not regulated and the gas boilers are. But the majority of gas fitters have not been trained / incompetent with pressurised cylinders and visa versa. Don't make sense to me.

I once replaced 30 unvented glass lined cylinders and amazingly enough the customer was more than happy to let me have all the old ones, strange that.

In respect of gas and unvented your talking guns and grenades both can be as dangerous as each other, stupidity/incompetence is linked to issues with both.

Domestically unvented is slightly safer as they will cause serious water damage €€€:eek: but as at least the 6 bar is fitted the cylinder won't go KABANG, it's rare they end a life, a defective gas appliance will kill you in a heart beat.

Without a flue proving switch on modern boilers we have to turn our gas paranoia switch all the way up to 11, the good news is manufactures are now fitting CO detectors to appliances which is a beautiful thing.

The real crime is the amount of under sink water heaters fitted in a dangerous manor in schools, playschools and Cresh's across the country, now that's sad.

QBE

gary71 wrote: »

In respect of gas and unvented your talking guns and grenades both can be as dangerous as each other, stupidity/incompetence is linked to issues with both.

Domestically unvented is slightly safer as they will cause serious water damage €€€:eek: but as at least the 6 bar is fitted the cylinder won't go KABANG, it's rare they end a life, a defective gas appliance will kill you in a heart beat.

manufactures are now fitting CO detectors to appliances which is a beautiful thing.

The real crime is the amount of under sink water heaters fitted in a dangerous manor in schools, playschools and Cresh's across the country, now that's sad.

My experience with unvented cylinders and gas boilers / burners. Leaves me more fearful of the cylinders. I had a lad spent a night on lookout with one of these in a hospital. Just to be on the safe side.

depending on the CO levels determains how fast it will kill you. You and I know gary. To many safety advices mitigates these risks.

Great to hear that about the gas appliances. The provisions was there years ago for this to be done and should be compulsory.

All areas like schools playgrounds ect. Should not have domestic appliances like under water fitters fitted in.

shane0007

QBE wrote: »

All areas like schools playgrounds ect. Should not have domestic appliances like under water fitters fitted in.

I usually find "under-water" ones don't light as well as under sink ones. Plus you need specialist equipment to get down to worl on them!

Sorry, couldn't help myself :-)

QBE

shane0007 wrote: »

I usually find "under-water" ones don't light as well as under sink ones. Plus you need specialist equipment to get down to worl on them!

Sorry, couldn't help myself :-)

very good.

I am tired. between me breathing out co2 and putting under sink heaters under water. I am not doing me self the worl of good.

you got me again:(

QBE

QBE wrote: »

My experience with unvented cylinders and gas boilers / burners. Leaves me more fearful of the cylinders. I had a lad spent a night on lookout with one of these in a hospital. Just to be on the safe side.

depending on the CO levels determains how fast it will kill you. You and I know gary. To many safety advices mitigates these risks.

Great to hear that about the gas appliances. The provisions was there years ago for this to be done and should be compulsory.

All areas like schools playgrounds ect. Should not have domestic appliances like under water fitters fitted in.

I work for one of the largest gas boiler and cylinder manufactures in Europe and it's usually me that investigates any incidents in Ireland.

Domestically unvented cylinders usually don't pose a risk of explosion as the 6 bar is part of the combination valve so they have to fit it. I do find the Temperture/ Pressure safety valve can be left off a installation

The biggest injurys i find are heat related as excessive pressure opens a safety valve allowing a torrent of very hot water/steam to flood the property leading to burnt feet as commonly no discharge safety pipes are used or plastic pipe is used instead of copper.

My fear is a repeat of the young girl in England who burnt to death when the cylinder above burst allowing her to be drenched in very hot water, sadly.


Unfortunatly under sink water heaters are common place in the areas little people can be found. The heaters can be fitted with no discharge pipework with the safety valve pointing at the children who are using the sinks, these installations have been passed by H & S so my views tend to fall on deaf ears due to the costs involved in refitting the heaters safely, with no regulations I'm powerless to make safe:mad:

QBE

gary71 wrote: »

I work for one of the largest gas boiler and cylinder manufactures in Europe and it's usually me that investigates any incidents in Ireland.

Domestically unvented cylinders usually don't pose a risk of explosion as the 6 bar is part of the combination valve so they have to fit it. I do find the Temperture/ Pressure safety valve can be left off a installation

The biggest injurys i find are heat related as excessive pressure opens a safety valve allowing a torrent of very hot water/steam to flood the property leading to burnt feet as commonly no discharge safety pipes are used or plastic pipe is used instead of copper.

My fear is a repeat of the young girl in England who burnt to death when the cylinder above burst allowing her to be drenched in very hot water, sadly.


Unfortunatly under sink water heaters are common place in the areas little people can be found. The heaters can be fitted with no discharge pipework with the safety valve pointing at the children who are using the sinks, these installations have been passed by H & S so my views tend to fall on deaf ears due to the costs involved in refitting the heaters safely, with no regulations I'm powerless to make safe:mad:

been employed in the field you are. no need to worry. You are recession proof. Until all tradesmen in the domestic area are rated on a scale for carring out projects.
Iv seen these issues first hand myself over the years. However it would be rare to see any levels of that kind of incompetence in the industrial sector.

Maybe its a regulation needed primarily on the domestic plumbing section (its a lack of supervision and experience) . I do also see lads (no disrespect to anyone) that buy vans and go out on their own. That would be only fit for pipe clipping and lagging or a bit of pipework. They just have not got a clue.

I have been told by lads over the years. " your industrial" you wouldn't know about our game (domestic). That proves their knowledge.

Its comical . I feel sorry for the unsuspecting customers. Everybody is learning everyday In this game. But unless you keep up skilling. You remain on a certain level. That's why I think all plumbers should be graded only after they complete an apprenticeship (no apprenticeship in the trade. you get a max (NG) no grade. regardless of the course you done.). Like in school NG to A1. With a minimum level of (C) to work unsupervised and (A) for a permit to carry out contracted work .That would Separate the wheat from the chaff .

mrcheez

I didn't realise just how archaic the plumbing industry is until I started this thread.

In most industries it's pretty simple: The company quotes for a job, does the job, gets paid for that job.

If any waste material is placed to the side and the customer says he wants to keep it, he is perfectly entitled to as it is HIS property, which was paid for from a previous plumbing job years back. If the customer says he wants to get rid of other material (like rubble), then that's part of the clean-up operation (which is all included in the quote)

There are no requirements for additional "tippage" as they earned their wage doing the job.

This is how it works in the real world.

The sense of entitlement exhibited by some of those posting on this thread is laughable and I'm sure will serve them well in business

.jacksparrow.

QBE wrote: »

been employed in the field you are. no need to worry. You are recession proof. Until all tradesmen in the domestic area are rated on a scale for carring out projects.
Iv seen these issues first hand myself over the years. However it would be rare to see any levels of that kind of incompetence in the industrial sector.

Maybe its a regulation needed primarily on the domestic plumbing section (its a lack of supervision and experience) . I do also see lads (no disrespect to anyone) that buy vans and go out on their own. That would be only fit for pipe clipping and lagging or a bit of pipework. They just have not got a clue.

I have been told by lads over the years. " your industrial" you wouldn't know about our game (domestic). That proves their knowledge.

Its comical . I feel sorry for the unsuspecting customers. Everybody is learning everyday In this game. But unless you keep up skilling. You remain on a certain level. That's why I think all plumbers should be graded only after they complete an apprenticeship (no apprenticeship in the trade. you get a max (NG) no grade. regardless of the course you done.). Like in school NG to A1. With a minimum level of (C) to work unsupervised and (A) for a permit to carry out contracted work .That would Separate the wheat from the chaff .

Do you on much work on industrial gas and oil burners?

I'm just been nosy by the way!

QBE

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Do you do much work on industrial gas and oil burners?

I'm just been nosy by the way!

Ill answer that as simple as I can. yes. loads.

and its a well paid job

.jacksparrow.

QBE wrote: »

Ill answer that as simple as I can. yes. loads.

and its a well paid job

Very good, just interested in that end myself, just checking if there is much work out there in that area.

QBE

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

just checking if there is much work out there in that area.

Especially in the Industrial & commercial boiler & burner servicing & maintenance & the Refrigeration & Air conditioning servicing & maintenance. Its an area I obtained quite a lot of contracts in at present for my own end of self employment.

pm myself your contact details. If your qualified in that area. Ill give you a bell in the coming mounts.

QBE

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Very good, just interested in that end myself, just checking if there is much work out there in that area.

I was reading the evening hearld and I came across some thing as rare as the penny black stamp. An advertisement looking for a plumber.

Well they are looking for one experienced in the service and maintaince of/ in INDUSTRIAL end of things.

That should answer the question In relation to much work in that area and a heads up for anyone seeking employment.
I heard of the company alright that's advertised. But would not be one of the 3 major players in that field. I can only name / think of 3 and iv been in that game a long time. Plenty of work in that area if your experienced. Iv picked up so far 4 yearly contracts valued with a six figure sum and id say by the end of the mounth that could double / treble. (the contracts not the value of the contracts). However in terms of value .one is with a leading multinational gas company that would be worth more than the other 3.
Just goes to show hiring the right people for marketing and the likes of business coaches ect really pays off. Id classify that as part of my advertisement marketing and awareness budget. A lot of self employed on this forum , thinks its a waste of money and I am greatful for their opinions, that confirms what the experts say is correct. But I think its a bit like plumbers . some fit plastic pipes and others can weld copper pipes aswell as use the plastic ones. some can talk a good job/baffle you with science (that's the engs job) and others get a good one done with sufficient talk. So I think its a case of leaving advice /services to specialists in their field. Like marketing , advertisement and awareness would be more relevant and better adviced in a different forum.

.jacksparrow.

QBE wrote: »

I was reading the evening hearld and I came across some thing as rare as the penny black stamp. An advertisement looking for a plumber.

Well they are looking for one experienced in the service and maintaince of/ in INDUSTRIAL end of things.

That should answer the question In relation to much work in that area and a heads up for anyone seeking employment.
I heard of the company alright that's advertised. But would not be one of the 3 major players in that field. I can only name / think of 3 and iv been in that game a long time. Plenty of work in that area if your experienced. Iv picked up so far 4 yearly contracts valued with a six figure sum and id say by the end of the mounth that could double / treble. (the contracts not the value of the contracts). However in terms of value .one is with a leading multinational gas company that would be worth more than the other 3.
Just goes to show hiring the right people for marketing and the likes of business coaches ect really pays off. Id classify that as part of my advertisement marketing and awareness budget. A lot of self employed on this forum , thinks its a waste of money and I am greatful for their opinions, that confirms what the experts say is correct. But I think its a bit like plumbers . some fit plastic pipes and others can weld copper pipes aswell as use the plastic ones. some can talk a good job/baffle you with science (that's the engs job) and others get a good one done with sufficient talk. So I think its a case of leaving advice /services to specialists in their field. Like marketing , advertisement and awareness would be more relevant and better adviced in a different forum.

Must check that out, I have quite a bit of experience in that end of things.