Sunderland sack Martin O'Neill

Average-Ro

markie29 wrote: »

i am not surprised they sacked Martin O Neill but why do it after they lost to Manchester United 1-0? why didnt they sack him before the international break so the new manager had some kind of chance working with the players.

strange move to sack him now.

Maybe they wanted to make sure they had a replacement lined up first; avoid what happened to Wolves last year.

Zatman

average 1 dimensional manager who has no tactical awareness as he still uses tactics that were successful in 90s but not anymore,
his rotation policy is a shambles.
cant tell a full back from a centre midfielder
is nothing without Robertson by his side.
has players physical levels that they are shattered by March.
signs mediocre players for inflated salaries and fees

football is turgid and makes Trappatoni look like Zeman

thankfully we will never see him in Premier League again and would cry if he became Ireland manager

Vurnon San Benito

mike65 wrote: »

The "O'Neill bounce", he comes in jumps up and down does his "Mr Motivator"
routine the lads respond (thank God Bruce has gone etc) then they see he has no actual tactical talent and the slump resumes. Throw in a load of poor buys and its no real surprise they are where they are.

Pardew next (in the summer)?

That sounds like NUFC alright.. :rolleyes:

manutd

If Sunderland were going to fire Martin O'Neill why not after they were outplayed by Norwich? Would've had international break for new boss to bed in.

jesus_thats_gre

T-K-O wrote: »

How often do we hear about bigger clubs, Liverpool for example coming out with statements like we need to sell before we can add to the squad.

If Villa didn't say something like. 'OK Martin you can Heskey on 55k but we need to sell x and y'

Well then, they are idiots. To think or expect the manager to have free reign with a cheque book is ludicrous.

If the manager wants to constantly over spend, he's a bad manager if the club allow him to do so - the club is worse.

Granted but the manager is still bad.

T-K-O

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Granted but the manager is still bad.

Like I said in my first post, I think he can do a job but at a lower level.

Dempsey

T-K-O wrote: »

That's a internal board management issue and not the coach / managers fault

When O'Neill was in charge at Celtic, he was involved in the negotiation of contracts. So he was partly responsible for the high wage bill, ridiculous contracts & debt

T-K-O

Dempsey wrote: »

When O'Neill was in charge at Celtic, he was involved in the negotiation of contracts. So he was partly responsible for the high wage bill, ridiculous contracts & debt

To be honest that says more about the club than the manager

COYVB

The problem with Mon at villa wasn't how much he spend. But how much he squandered. Never the wages he put players on, always the wages he wasted on players he didn't play. Never the transfer fees, always the fact that 75% of his signings left for free

Cienciano

T-K-O wrote: »

I agree MON bought some awful players. Im not defending him on that. However I will not accept a club after the fact blaming the manager for their financials woes.

It's a easy out for the club

That's how clubs work in Britain. Manager decides who to buy. The problem with MON is that he rarely buys in players for cheap, he pays top dollar for well known players.
And as for wages, a manager knows how much of his budget is going to a players wages. MON will know that heskey on 55k a week ties up a good percentage of his wage budget, but he believes he's worth it.
Villa drew the line on MON's spending and he walked.

Tough to bring someone else in at this stage.

O Neill isn't up to it anyway, so overrated.

I wonder what Lawro will make of it. Wasn't he a huge MON fan and how he "challenges" players?

jesus_thats_gre

T-K-O wrote: »

To be honest that says more about the club than the manager

Do you really think that a manager shouldn't be aware of or involved in the financial side of the club?

I am a Technical manager of an IT team and I can't even escape having to consider budgets and staff costs.

COYVB

T-K-O wrote: »

To be honest that says more about the club than the manager

It was the same at villa, you can say it was the clubs fault or whatever, but it was the previous owner who hired him, not the current one. The current one was bound by the contract the previous one put him on. When he tried to change it, Mon walked. Mons terms were his way or no way. He was given a chance to do it his way, when that way was prevented he left. The club did try to get him under control, and he sued for breach of contract

Amirani

T-K-O wrote: »

To be honest that says more about the club than the manager

I think it says a lot about both. O'Neill for spending his budget on rubbish when there's better available for less and the club obviously for allowing him to spend it. I agree the club is more at fault, you can't ignore O'Neill's bad decision making in this regard though.

T-K-O

Cienciano wrote: »

That's how clubs work in Britain. Manager decides who to buy. The problem with MON is that he rarely buys in players for cheap, he pays top dollar for well known players.
And as for wages, a manager knows how much of his budget is going to a players wages. MON will know that heskey on 55k a week ties up a good percentage of his wage budget, but he believes he's worth it.
Villa drew the line on MON's spending and he walked.

I dont believe it but lets say that is the case. If a manager blows his load of useless players and bankrupts my club. I would blame the board.

It's a thin line and the manager needs certain control but an open cheque book... get outta here

Maybe Villa fans can chip in but I think something else was going on at the club. They sold EVERYONE in the following year(s)

Dempsey

T-K-O wrote: »

To be honest that says more about the club than the manager

MON stipulated that into his contract when he first joined and when Lawwell (CEO) came to the club, he wanted that taken off MON but MON threatened to walk away. Since MON, only Lawwell negotiates the contracts and thats a very good thing

mike65

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder what Lawro will make of it. Wasn't he a huge MON fan and how he "challenges" players?

MOTD will be very interesting, the media loves a chatty celtic-fringe type and so tend to be very generous in return.

T-K-O

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Do you really think that a manager shouldn't be aware of or involved in the financial side of the club?

I am a Technical manager of an IT team and I can't even escape having to consider budgets and staff costs.

That's not what Im saying... you don't let a football man hold the purse strings of a multi million pound business. You dont give them the power to bankrupt

Zatman

his investment in British players and lack of knowledge in European markets was his main downfall at Villa e.g Villa paid 7.8 million for a poor defender in Cuellar and in same summer City(before sheikhs took over and villa were higher) paid 6million for Kompany.

this wasnt a one-off Davies, Warnock, Harewood, Shorey, Reo-Coker, Sidwell and a few more were bought for horrible fees and stupid salaries when was better value elsewhere

T-K-O

COYVB wrote: »

It was the same at villa, you can say it was the clubs fault or whatever, but it was the previous owner who hired him, not the current one. The current one was bound by the contract the previous one put him on. When he tried to change it, Mon walked. Mons terms were his way or no way. He was given a chance to do it his way, when that way was prevented he left. The club did try to get him under control, and he sued for breach of contract

Good work on the back ground info. Fair play to Villa for getting rid. Smart move.

T-K-O

NiallSparky wrote: »

I think it says a lot about both. O'Neill for spending his budget on rubbish when there's better available for less and the club obviously for allowing him to spend it. I agree the club is more at fault, you can't ignore O'Neill's bad decision making in this regard though.

And I'm not but allowing any man to ruin any of the clubs mentioned is complete madness.

Paully D

Stick with him and we were down. At least now we have a chance of staying up, albeit small it's still greater than it was.

No idea who the club will get in but I'm sure Ellis Short has his replacement sorted and ready to take over in the next few days. If he doesn't I'd be very surprised.

I didn't want O'Neill in the first place and he looked to have proven me so wrong at first but things have gone downhill massively since then. Shame really as the one time we appoint a manager with a half decent pedigree it goes to shit. Typical Sunderland.

Even if we stay up there's a huge rebuild needed in the summer. A tough job on the hands of whoever takes over, but one thing they will get is transfer funds and with games against Aston Villa, Stoke and Southampton to come they can't say they won't have the fixtures to accumulate points.

One thing I hope the club will do is go for even a slightly ambitious candidate, rather than one of the ''jobs for the boys'' group of British managers that are always mentioned for Premier League/Championship jobs but given our predicament I can't be fussy I know.

Interesting/worrying times ahead for us fans but this is a gamble that needed to be taken IMO. Hopefully it pays off but if not I'd rather have given it a go than stuck with O'Neill and gone down miserably.

jesus_thats_gre

T-K-O wrote: »

That's not what Im saying... you don't let a football man hold the purse strings of a multi million pound business. You dont give them the power to bankrupt

But you effectively do as you trust him to completely manage what goes on on the pitch. It is that effectiveness on the pitch that is probably the biggest factor in the finances of the club. He should never be the final decision maker but the board also have to trust the manager to make the right decisions for the club. If there is no trust, the manager is effectively neutered.

T-K-O

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

But you effectively do as you trust him to completely manage what goes on on the pitch. It is that effectiveness on the pitch that is probably the biggest factor in the finances of the club. He should never be the final decision maker but the board also have to trust the manager to make the right decisions for the club.

Agreed, I said it was a fine line. I prefer the manager to have as much control as possible but there must be some controls in place to ensure the clubs future.

Gavlor

The timing is senseless. Before playing utd they had a 2 week break for internationals. Surely 2 weeks ago was the time to sack him and get a new man in by now. Who on the board decided 'tell you what, if he loses to the team that are 15 points clear at the top then we should sack him'. Football clubs are run by idiots.

RayCon

The battle to stay up (lure of the massive new TV money) really is chaotic this year ...

QPR
Southampton
Reading
Sunderland

... all ditching their managers recently in an effort to improve their results.

It would be interesting if Wigan escape and 3 of those 4 go down.

COYVB

Worst thing about it is that he won't get a relegation on his cv, even if Sunderland go down. He'll continue to get a free ride from the media, and the myth will continue

Gavlor

Gavlor wrote: »

The timing is senseless. Before playing utd they had a 2 week break for internationals. Surely 2 weeks ago was the time to sack him and get a new man in by now. Who on the board decided 'tell you what, if he loses to the team that are 15 points clear at the top then we should sack him'. Football clubs are run by idiots.

Panic decision written all over it.

COYVB

It there any evidence he was sacked? Would anyone be surprised if it transpires he's actually walked?

Amirani

Gavlor wrote: »

The timing is senseless. Before playing utd they had a 2 week break for internationals. Surely 2 weeks ago was the time to sack him and get a new man in by now. Who on the board decided 'tell you what, if he loses to the team that are 15 points clear at the top then we should sack him'. Football clubs are run by idiots.

It's hard to know what happened. The may have decided this 2 weeks ago and been doing interviews the international break. Could've just decided to stick with O'Neill during the interview process.

Ilik Urgee

STFU Hansen and Shearer.

Zatman

COYVB wrote: »

It there any evidence he was sacked? Would anyone be surprised if it transpires he's actually walked?

MON is a man of great character and humility. Wouldnt be like him to walk when the going gets tough :P

Hannibal

Steve McClaren leading the betting at 6/4, Di Canio and Di Matteo are next at 10/1 then Hughes at 12/1. So McClaren is odds on to the point that it's an almost certainty

super_furry

Hughes at 12/1 is a massive price. Going to have a bit of that.

Gavlor

The shouts in earlier posts of O'neill for Ireland are funny. The man's tactics are back in the stone age. We should try get Howard Kendall instead

Paully D

Dotsey wrote: »

Steve McClaren leading the betting at 6/4, Di Canio and Di Matteo are next at 10/1 then Hughes at 12/1. So McClaren is odds on to the point that it's an almost certainty

It screams Sunderland appointment but the odds change so much on these markets if someone has a tenner on. It could well happen but I certainly wouldn't call it a certainty based on an hours worth of a next manager market.

Hannibal

super_furry wrote: »

Hughes at 12/1 is a massive price. Going to have a bit of that.

After the jobs he done at City and QPR in money wasting can't see Sunderland letting another chequebook manager in after O'Neill

Gavlor wrote: »

The shouts in earlier posts of O'neill for Ireland are funny. The man's tactics are back in the stone age. We should try get Howard Kendall instead

was thinking George Graham myself

titan18

RayCon wrote: »

The battle to stay up (lure of the massive new TV money) really is chaotic this year ...

QPR
Southampton
Reading
Sunderland

... all ditching their managers recently in an effort to improve their results.

It would be interesting if Wigan escape and 3 of those 4 go down.

Tbf, Southampton and QPR have gotten better imo since they chose to change

Zatman

not true. QPR are actually further off survival than they were when Harry took over.

Cienciano

Ilik Urgee wrote: »

STFU Hansen and Shearer.

What were they saying?

NIMAN

Vastly over-rated manager.

COYVB

NIMAN wrote: »

Vastly over-rated manager.

You're even over rating hin with that comment tbh

Lennonist

There's some right characters havin a go at MON on this thread. O'Neill has had a long career in management to date, with results and performance of his teams varying between mixed and very successful at a range of different clubs.

Panic decision from Sunderland. Maybe they think a new manager at this stage will give them a bounce affect that will stop them being relegated. I reckon their decision might backfire spectacularly.

Amirani

Dotsey wrote: »

Steve McClaren leading the betting at 6/4, Di Canio and Di Matteo are next at 10/1 then Hughes at 12/1. So McClaren is odds on to the point that it's an almost certainty

I've layed McClaren fairly heavily at 4/1.

Zatman

Lennonist wrote: »

There's some right characters havin a go at MON on this thread. O'Neill has had a long career in management to date, with results and performance of his teams varying between mixed and very successful at a range of different clubs.

Panic decision from Sunderland. Maybe they think a new manager at this stage will give them a bounce affect that will stop them being relegated. I reckon their decision might backfire spectacularly.

maybe these "characters" are villa and sunderland fans who have seen his failings in recent years. He hasnt been successful since Leicester days nearly 15 years ago.
as winning Scottish league isnt a great achievement especially when McLeish had a better head to head record in trophies when both were at Old Firm

Paully D

Lennonist wrote: »

There's some right characters havin a go at MON on this thread. O'Neill has had a long career in management to date, with results and performance of his teams varying between mixed and very successful at a range of different clubs.

Panic decision from Sunderland. Maybe they think a new manager at this stage will give them a bounce affect that will stop them being relegated. I reckon they're decision might backfire spectacularly.

Well one thing's for sure mate, we were going down with O'Neill in charge. Have you see us play in the last 8-12 months? You might say we'd have a chance to pick up wins in home games against Stoke and Southampton but us Sunderland fans have been saying that against so called weaker teams for the whole season without any success apart from the Reading game a few months ago.

We may well still go down but it certainly won't be a decision that will backfire at all because if we didn't make a change we were accepting relegation without a whimper. There's been no suggestion from O'Neill's management of the club to date to suggest we had anything to be capable of turning the corner.

Lennonist

Zatman wrote: »

maybe these "characters" are villa and sunderland fans who have seen his failings in recent years. He hasnt been successful since Leicester days nearly 15 years ago.
as winning Scottish league isnt a great achievement especially when McLeish had a better head to head record in trophies when both were at Old Firm

Villa and Sunderland fans? What kind of results constitutes success for clubs like Villa and Sunderland?

Are you a Villa or Sunderland fan? Or are you just some other type of "character"?

Kiwi_knock

He would have been sacked in the summer regardless of whether they stayed up, he has shown no signs that he is the man to take Sunderland forward. At least now the new man will have time to evaluate the squad before the summer.

Paully D

NiallSparky wrote: »

I've layed McClaren fairly heavily at 4/1.

There's a few things that make me think it could be him.

1) Typical Sunderland appointment

2) David Craig, north-east correspondent says to expect a quick appointment and he has a very good relationship with McClaren from his Boro days

3) McClaren has had success in the north-east in the past and has done well developing young players, this will appeal to Ellis Short

I hope it's not him mind, but I wouldn't be surprised at all. Things will become clearer over the next day or two but there's a lot of money to be made on these next manager markets. I hope you'll be collecting!