Sunderland sack Martin O'Neill

COYVB

daithijjj wrote: »

Fair enough, all the figures i took for wages are in the following link by Newstalk and quoting financialfairplay.com, dated Feb 2013.

http://www.newstalk.ie/Which-Premier-League-club-is-getting-most-points-for-their-money.

Anyway, i think we are going a bit off topic now.

Yeah Feb was when we released the 2011/12 books alright, so it's last season's numbers. Clubs are usually a year behind with that stuff

buyer95

COYVB wrote: »

Based on some allegedly informed estimates from around internet land, not much

Guzan - £18k
Lowton - £12k
Bennett - £12k
Vlaar - £22k
El-Ahmedi - £18k
Westwood - £12k
Benteke - £17k
Bowery - £3k
Sylla - £7.5k

Total of about £125k, rounded up, or just shy of Richard Dunne & Stephen Ireland's wages combined

Not to mention Given's terrible contract, if Guzan and Benteke's are anyway accurate, their a steal

daithijjj

COYVB wrote: »

Yeah Feb was when we released the 2011/12 books alright, so it's last season's numbers. Clubs are usually a year behind with that stuff

Most clubs are having a haircut though of some description. Sunderland are no different. Was a fella on the radio earlier saying Bruce spent money. They made a profit on xfers and Bruce lowered the wage bill according to another fella.

I suppose the point is, Lambert has spent 23m, O'Neill has spent 18m. Both net. They both lost a heap of players off the wage bill. Sunderland let go of 10 or so as well in one way or another.

You have to be careful of doing that too fast too soon, the result of it is a merry go round of managers. And it isnt always about money, its about volume of ins and outs and time to play together.

COYVB

daithijjj wrote: »

You have to be careful of doing that too fast too soon, the result of it is a merry go round of managers. And it isnt always about money, its about volume of ins and outs and time to play together.

Absolutely, but that's where I feel Lambert could well be a much more sustainable manager than O'Neill. He's bringing in young guys (too many of them perhaps, given the league position) with the future in mind. If Villa stay up this season, I can't really see another campaign as bad as this one on the cards. The problem with bringing so much young blood in if you don't have an experienced core is that they're always likely to struggle for confidence and consistency - as shown this season - but the likelihood is that they'll be the stronger for it next year.

O'Neill has always been about the experienced players with little or no sell on. Works well short term, but it bleeds money in the long run as there's no continual income from sales apart from the major successes. They're two different approaches, each extreme, and you have to think that the actual balance is somewhere in the middle - but if I had to choose one over the other, I'd always be inclined to go with the one that has a long term potential there.

I think MON could be a very good international manager though, based on the way he sets his teams out and his reliance on older players. I suspect that'll probably be his next and final stop in the game

ben.schlomo

O'Neill is a spoofer, im quite happy that he has been found out again. Long ball and direct football are just not doable as a way to quickly turnaround a team.

NIMAN

Also heard that he rarely is on the training ground, and usually leaves this to his coaches, then turns up on Fri or Sat to do the motivational chat to the team.

Not sure how true this is.

COYVB

NIMAN wrote: »

Also heard that he rarely is on the training ground, and usually leaves this to his coaches, then turns up on Fri or Sat to do the motivational chat to the team.

Not sure how true this is.

Yeah that's how he works, 100%

He always has done too I believe

Hank Scorpio

this is abit of a shock for me, didn't expect it

altho I expected Sunderland have a good chance to go down considering their remaining fixtures

there team is extremly poor to be fair but it looked like from previous matches his heart wasnt in it

Zatman

daithijjj wrote: »

Most clubs are having a haircut though of some description. Sunderland are no different. Was a fella on the radio earlier saying Bruce spent money. They made a profit on xfers and Bruce lowered the wage bill according to another fella.

I suppose the point is, Lambert has spent 23m, O'Neill has spent 18m. Both net. They both lost a heap of players off the wage bill. Sunderland let go of 10 or so as well in one way or another.

You have to be careful of doing that too fast too soon, the result of it is a merry go round of managers. And it isnt always about money, its about volume of ins and outs and time to play together.

Id be shocked if Sunderland have actually cut their wage bill though. Adam Johnson would have been on big money at City and knowing MON would have given him a payrise Mangane as well was playing in Qatar from France so would have been on a decent salary. probably bumped Fletcher and Graham

Isnt Wes Brown still on their books. has catastrophe written all over it

Royal Legend

Sack Trap and give O'Neill the Ireland job, he is just what we need, a progressive, attack minded manager, with years of experience winning trophies. :rolleyes:

Dempsey

Paully D wrote: »

A lot of us in the Sunderland thread have pointed to the lack of John Robertson in his coaching staff as a possible reason why things haven't been the same for O'Neill. It seems like Stan Collymore agrees:

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/ex-leicester-man-stan-collymore-says-o-neill-was-missing-john-robertson-1-5540809

I assumed John Robertson was involved but that would explain abit. O'Neill relies heavily on his backroom team to deal with the players from day to day & feedback from training sessions.

yohan the great

Francie Barrett wrote: »

It was the right decision to get rid of him. They were going nowhere and still playing caveman football.

When Fat Sam and Pulis eventually leave, you're actually going to end up with 20 teams in the league who at least try to play decent football (assuming Sunderland don't appoint another caveman).

I don't know how pardew gets away with not being called a long ball manager but hopefully he'll be gone soon too

Dempsey

michael gray ‏@mickygray33

Not confirmed yet but I'm hearing di canio...!!! #SAFC

I dont think that would be a popular choice!

Royal Legend

Dempsey wrote: »

I dont think that would be a popular choice!

Its near impossible to turn it around in 7 games, so something left field might work.
De Canio would bring passion and Sunderland has a passionate fanbase, might be the ideal short term partnership, I think Paulo is destined for great things

Paully D

Dempsey wrote: »

I dont think that would be a popular choice!

Gray has no inside track at the club and basically just predicts things on Twitter like any fan, but if we've appointed Di Canio then I just completely give up.

Royal Legend

Paully D wrote: »

Gray has no inside track at the club and basically just predicts things on Twitter like any fan, but if we've appointed Di Canio then I just completely give up.

Southampton were upset when the manager got the sack and the new manager cannot even speak english, but..... he has turned it around big time, three big scalps in the last few weeks and playing good football.

Blatter

Paully D wrote: »

Gray has no inside track at the club and basically just predicts things on Twitter like any fan, but if we've appointed Di Canio then I just completely give up.

Lots of money coming in for Di Canio, around 1/2 on BF. Apparently Sky saying he's travelling to Sunderland now.

Royal Legend

If its true, I think Paulo is going to suprise a few people, plus there is always the chance he will implode, which makes great TV.

Celly Smunt

Turtyturd wrote: »

I doubt MON will take the Ireland job unless they offer him funds to purchase a fake Irish passport for Heskey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWP-z4O8Ddo

Paully D

He's on the way for talks. In other words he agreed to take over a few days ago and is putting pen to paper now with a press conference tomorrow or Tuesday.

Royal Legend

I Love Paulo

Bit of a strange appointment.

buyer95

NIMAN wrote: »

Also heard that he rarely is on the training ground, and usually leaves this to his coaches, then turns up on Fri or Sat to do the motivational chat to the team.

Not sure how true this is.

This is basically how Fergie works too, and it hasn't worked out too bad for him. His job is to pick the team and to come up with tactics, and buy the right players not to set up the cones.

grohlisagod

This should be fun!

super_furry

Alex McLeish would provide more comedy but I'm happy with Di Canio's lunacy factor. Should be fun either way.

thebaz

Royal Legend wrote: »

I Love Paulo

in the sometimes sterile world of EPL - he's personality - wish him luck if true

The_Kew_Tour

Can we not just use the popcorn gif just one last time?

This is going to be great fun.

Professional Griefer

Derby is only 2 weeks away as well.

SlickRic

Di Canio?

football is becoming a joke.

Royal Legend

SlickRic wrote: »

Di Canio?

football is becoming a joke.

What have you got against Paulo?

Rekop dog

Di Canio will be the best thing to happen to the premiership in years.

The_Kew_Tour

Even though he played for Celtic I was always a fan of Di Canio as a player and was hoping he might prove himself at Swindon.

He might do well short term at Sunderland, but can see it being another Roy Keane episode here.

Guess time will tell.

SlickRic

nothing.

but it's a crazy gamble.

I guess clubs really are quite desperate to avail of this new pot of gold next year.

the timing of the McDermott, and now MON sackings, is insane.

Chucky the tree

SlickRic wrote: »

nothing.

but it's a crazy gamble.

I guess clubs really are quite desperate to avail of this new pot of gold next year.

the timing of the McDermott, and now MON sackings, is insane.

But relying on a manager who's picked up earned 1point per game for the season and hasn't won match in 8 games isn't a gamble or insane?

Kiwi_knock

Which player will Di Canio punch first?

T-K-O

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Which player will Di Canio punch first?

I reckon Fletcher slaps DiCanio around the training ground

The_Kew_Tour

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Which player will Di Canio punch first?

McClean.

SlickRic

Chucky the tree wrote: »

But relying on a manager who's picked up earned 1point per game for the season and hasn't won match in 8 games isn't a gamble or insane?

if someone as inexperienced and completely untested at Premier League level as di Canio is your option, then it's a bigger gamble than keeping MON on IMO.

ctrl-alt-delete

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

McClean.

I reckon they might get on well, they both have a knack for making enemies!

Royal Legend

SlickRic wrote: »

if someone as inexperienced and completely untested at Premier League level as di Canio is your option, then it's a bigger gamble than keeping MON on IMO.

O'Neill has offered nothing lately, probably he should have got the sack 7 games ago, not with 7 games left. To have any chance now, Sunderland need a bit of a miricle, DI Canio could be the miricle

Sacking Martin O'Neill is one thing but 1) why now? 2) Is losing to Champions elect United really the straw that broke the camels back i mean come on really now? & 3) The first man Sunderland are talking to is a man who is a former manager of a league 1 club and is a complete head-the-ball who fights with his players, not to forget he is totally unproven.

I think O'Neill is a good manager IMO and probably needed more money to spend and John Robertson was also a big loss as his number 2 as he is a fairly shrewd football man. I could understand if like Southampton they had a proven young coach with new ideas to come in and i could understand if it was the summer but its a bit late in the day to be making these changes. Same thing with Brian McDermott, pure nonsense. Football is losing its common sense but sadly is given its financial back bone by many who dont even know the meaning of the term.

Blatter

Di Canio confirmed as new boss on 2 and a half year deal.

http://www.safc.com/news/club-news/2013/march/new-head-coach-confirmed

Royal Legend

Deleted User wrote: »

Sacking Martin O'Neill is one thing but 1) why now? 2) Is losing to Champions elect United really the straw that broke the camels back i mean come on really now? & 3) The first man Sunderland are talking to is a man who is a former manager of a league 1 club and is a complete head-the-ball who fights with his players, not to forget he is totally unproven.

I think O'Neill is a good manager IMO and probably needed more money to spend and John Robertson was also a big loss as his number 2 as he is a fairly shrewd football man. I could understand if like Southampton they had a proven young coach with new ideas to come in and i could understand if it was the summer but its a bit late in the day to be making these changes. Same thing with Brian McDermott, pure nonsense. Football is losing its common sense but sadly is given its financial back bone by many who dont even know the meaning of the term.

I don't fully agree with your reasoning. You or I do not know what is going on in the background at any club. If MON has lost the players, is devoid of ideas and is 7 games from bringing Sunderland to relegation, then the Directors would not be doing their job if they did not try something that might keep them up, bringing in a new manager is a gamble, but is it not better then sitting on their arses and waiting for the inevitable.

Kiwi_knock

As Head Coach? Was MON head coach as well?

JPA

Di Canio appointed is one of the biggest gambles in football I've ever seen.

A real make or break decision.

JPA

O'Neill pretty much dismantled here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/mar/31/martin-oneill-failure-sunderland

Scene One, August 2012: Bistro Romano in Cleadon on the outskirts of Sunderland. Seated at a prime window table, Martin O'Neill is entertaining a small group of national newspaper writers, correcting gaps in their general knowledge along the way.

He waves an arm in the direction of a handsome, stone-built house across the road before explaining that it had once been home to Charles Dickens. Sunderland's former manager clearly knows his Dickens and as some wonderful, frequently Brian Clough-based, anecdotes subsequently reveal, he patently remains in thrall to football.

Nine months into the job of reviving Sunderland, the team he supported as a boy via a transistor radio smuggled into his Northern Irish boarding school, optimism abounds.

Scene Two, December 2012: The Academy of Light, Sunderland's training ground. O'Neill is bristling with barely suppressed anger as, on a dark Monday morning, he questions how a BBC interviewer had the temerity to inquire whether he "doubted himself" following a 3-1 home defeat by Chelsea 48 hours earlier.

Sunderland are struggling. With Reading due on Wearside the next day, O'Neill is in defiant mode. "Not only am I the best man for this job," he says "but I'm actually the only man for the job. I once really doubted myself before I sat my 11-plus, honestly. I didn't know whether I was going to pass or not. But then I was only seven at the time. I did pass."

Reading were beaten 3-0 but, for such an evidently clever man, the 61-year-old had betrayed a strange lack of emotional intelligence. It was arguably a key reason why it all ultimately went so horribly wrong for him on Wearside, culminating in his Saturday night sacking.

It is part of the human condition to question yourself but the Northern Irishman's intransigence perhaps explains why, at a time when the Premier League landscape is fast changing, he struck fairly rigidly to the managerial methods which had served him so well at Leicester City, Celtic and Aston Villa.

While other managers became converts to regular player rotation, frequent changes of system and the experimentation with assorted branches of sport science, including psychology, O'Neill stayed true to the tried and tested.

He was long renowned as a master motivator but, imperceptibly, his touch seemed to desert him. After he masterminded an impressive revival immediately after succeeding Steve Bruce in December 2011, Sunderland finished last season on a poor run.

At the time not too much was read into it. Instead, as £12m was spent on signing Steven Fletcher from Wolverhampton Wanderers and a further £10m on the recruitment of Adam Johnson from Manchester City, hopes of a top-eight finish at the 49,000-capacity, success-starved Stadium of Light were high. Although Fletcher shone, scoring a third of Sunderland's goals until an ankle injury sustained playing for Scotland last month ruled him out for the rest of the season, Johnson has been an unmitigated disaster.

Deployed in wide roles in O'Neill's preferred 4-4-1-1 system, the former England international has lacked the pace to operate as an orthodox winger. Sunderland's next manager could well give serious consideration to relocating Johnson – who often has not looked properly fit – to "the hole" or, like Roberto Mancini at City, using him as an impact substitute.

If Ellis Short, the financier who owns Sunderland and has invested more than £100m in the club since buying it four years ago, had begun harbouring doubts about O'Neill, publicly at least, he remained fiercely protective.

Short had even taken to touring the press room before games. With the owner good-naturedly chiding those who suggested Bruce's successor was "on the brink", such visits were interpreted as unequivocal shows of support for the manager. Perhaps they were but, in one possibly telling mid-winter aside, Short told someone who had tried to second-guess him: "You don't know what I'm really thinking."

Nonetheless the manager, who was already starting to display signs of the world-weary, battle fatigue which increasingly characterised Kevin Keegan's second stint in charge of Newcastle United, was permitted to spend another £9m in January, importing Alfred N'Diaye, a midfielder from Turkey's Bursaspor, and the £5m Swansea City striker Danny Graham. It is too early to judge N'Diaye but Graham has still to score.

Tactics remained, at best, two dimensional. The gameplan seemed to be to absorb pressure before hitting opponents on the break but Sunderland lacked the necessary pace for such a counter-attacking strategy. A worryingly static team, low on inventive, off-the-ball, between-the-lines movement, let alone slick passing, they were clearly suffering from the loss of their catalytic midfield enforcer and captain, Lee Cattermole, to chronic knee trouble.

Without Cattermole, O'Neill lacked an effective dressing room conduit and it also did not help that two summer signings, Louis Saha and James McFadden, proved well past their best and were swiftly released. Meanwhile O'Neill appeared reluctant to offer young players such as Connor Wickham, the £8m striker bought by Bruce, first-team chances and turned prickly when challenged on the subject.

With only Simon Mignolet, the Belgium goalkeeper, in outstanding form, O'Neill's best outfielder was Danny Rose, a left-back loaned from Tottenham. There is a case for the new manager relocating Rose to midfield but, whoever comes in, must cope with a worryingly small squad.

Part of O'Neill's brief was to prune a first-team pool which had become overblown during years of frantic buying and selling on the part of Bruce and Roy Keane but it is possible that, perhaps under pressure from the boardroom, he cut too far too fast.

Fraizer Campbell, sold to Cardiff City in January, and David Meyler and Ahmed Elmohamady, respectively sold and loaned to Hull City, could all have played roles in the fight against a potentially ruinousrelegation. Indeed, on present form Campbell and Meyler are arguably more effective than Graham and N'Diaye, while Elmohamady may have been useful during a campaign in which Craig Gardner has regularly been fielded out of position at right-back.

If O'Neill will claim that his judgments on Meyler and company were far from knee jerk, Short cannot be accused of acting in haste. Yet as the manager's words and body language became incrementally more downbeat and results deteriorated to the point where Sunderland are without a win in eight games, the owner, by now discreetly letting it be known that he was disappointed at getting such poor return for his £100m plus investment, had little choice but to act.

If losing to United was the tipping point, three moments last month will have provoked alarm. First O'Neill declared his squad lacked "real, true quality" and then, when Sunderland announced a £27m loss for the last financial year, he looked utterly uninterested and claimed "not to have seen" the figures. Similarly, when asked for details of a knee operation Cattermole had newly undergone, he said it was "something to do with a tendon". Where had the former law student with the famously forensic mind disappeared to? The only question is whether, with seven games to go, Short has left it too late to save Sunderland from the Championship?

mike65

David Milliband (Labour MP, soon to be PM) has resigned from the Sunderland board

David Miliband said: “I wish Sunderland AFC all success in the future. It is a great institution that does a huge amount for the North East and I wish the team very well over the next vital seven games. However, in the light of the new manager’s past political statements, I think it right to step down.”

T-K-O

mike65 wrote: »

David Milliband (Labour MP, soon to be PM) has resigned from the Sunderland board

David is off to the states you are thinking of his bro fast Eddie

mike65

T-K-O wrote: »

David is off to the states you are thinking of his bro fast Eddie

Sorry that should have read "soon to be ex MP" not PM!

I shouldn't like DiCanio and yet I do.

T-K-O

mike65 wrote: »

Sorry that should have read "soon to be ex MP" not PM!

I shouldn't like DiCanio and yet I do.

So do I but I would not like him at my club.