Austerity isn't really working is it?

steddyeddy

Three Seasons wrote: »

Who's dealing with small issues and ignoring big ones?

Large commerical rents have been one of the primary reasons that irish businesses have failed. To revive the Irish economy this needs to be dealt with. lowering the minimum wage will do feck all to revive the economy if you don't deal with commercial rents.

Three Seasons

steddyeddy wrote: »

Large commerical rents have been one of the primary reasons that irish businesses have failed. To revive the Irish economy this needs to be dealt with. lowering the minimum wage will do feck all to revive the economy if you don't deal with commercial rents.

I'd like to see both dealt with ideally.

darkhorse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

When did this austerity start? And how will we know when it is over?

Ah, ya see, dx, it only started for a certain amount of people, and for the same people it will never be over. However, it did'nt affect everyone on our (un)fair isle:



Corrupt Eire

Anynama141

darkhorse wrote: »

Ah, ya see, dx, it only started for a certain amount of people, and for the same people it will never be over. However, it did'nt affect everyone on our (un)fair isle:



Corrupt Eire

Indeed. Core social welfare payments and old age pensions have not really been touched. Middle earners have been hit hard.

darkhorse

Three Seasons wrote: »

Yes they will actually, goods and services prices will fall and more business will start up and more jobs become available. No minimum wage benefits the poorer people in society.

Would that include rents and business rates? I dont think so.

darkhorse

Sandwlch wrote: »

Isnt that the flaw though ? The above, or the vaste majority of people in general have no understanding of the issues involved and so can make no judgement on whether 'austerity is working' or not. Leave it to the people who know best to make their best (which may be right or wrong, but still the best shot at it) effort at improving our situation.

To quote a guy who dabbled in economics:

The time for austerity is when the economy is strong and growing. When it’s stuck in the mud, austerity just digs it in deeper.

Anynama141

darkhorse wrote: »

To quote a guy who dabbled in economics:

Are you (still?) suggesting that the Irish government has a choice about this?

K-9

Phoebas wrote: »

He most likely wouldn't be able to attract staff at that level of pay.

But it does raise a question. If he could get people to work for €4 an hour, why should the employer bear the full cost of what is basically a social support? Surely the state should be picking up at least some of this tab?

The state already helps families through payments like Family Income Supplement, and we also have the internship scheme and half rate PRSI for employers, and you want extra Government subsidies for employers?

At this rate we'll be paying the wages next, because businesses create jobs!

Mongfinder General

We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.

Anynama141

Mongfinder General wrote: »

We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.

<OT> I'm kinda surprised your username is allowed at all </OT>

Mongfinder General

Anynama141 wrote: »

<OT> I'm kinda surprised your username is allowed at all </OT>

This coming from a person who uses a handle that reads like an access code to a gay phone chat.

Anynama141

Mongfinder General wrote: »

This coming from a person who uses a handle that reads like an access code to a gay phone chat.

Touché.

Phoebas

K-9 wrote: »

The state already helps families through payments like Family Income Supplement, and we also have the internship scheme and half rate PRSI for employers, and you want extra Government subsidies for employers?

At this rate we'll be paying the wages next, because businesses create jobs!

You misunderstand. I don't want the Government to pay towards the costs of the minimum wage. I'm just raising the question - why is the 'burden' of the minimum wage carried by business at the lower end? Maybe employers (or employees) higher up the value chain should share the cost.

darkhorse

Three Seasons wrote: »

The cost of living will come down following the abolition of the minimum wage. People will be better off, especially the poorer people in society.

Governments must really hate the poor, because if we were to adhere to your logic, then wages and social welfare should have been slashed, for the benefit of the poor.

Anynama141

darkhorse wrote: »

Governments must really hate the poor, because if we were to adhere to your logic, then wages and social welfare should have been slashed, for the benefit of the poor.

Perhaps they should be? I'm not sure that the culture of dependency helps anyone in the long term.

K-9

Phoebas wrote: »

You misunderstand. I don't want the Government to pay towards the costs of the minimum wage. I'm just raising the question - why is the 'burden' of the minimum wage carried by business at the lower end? Maybe employers (or employees) higher up the value chain should share the cost.

That's a fair point, catering and retail would probably have the most minimum wage jobs, or just above. Multi-national corporations paying the same as a small business.

darkhorse

Suryavarman wrote: »

Austerity will work when it's actually tried.

What Part of 'Austerity Isn't Working' Don't People Get? | Jared ...

Anynama141

darkhorse wrote: »

What Part of 'Austerity Isn't Working' Don't People Get? | Jared ...

Darkhorse, do you think that austerity is a choice for Ireland?

Do you have an alternative?

darkhorse

Anynama141 wrote: »

There is only one side in this discussion not addressing arguments.

I asked repeatedly for anyone to address 5 points I made about the minimum wage - nobody did. Perhaps you would like to?

Or perhaps you would prefer to revert to discussing the hole that Ireland finds itself in, as the minimum wage discussion seems to be a bit of a side track? Because, either way, I'm pretty sure nobody is interested in discussing your attack on me and other posters here.

I don't wish to sound patronizing, but would you and your three friends try and stick to the subject matter of the thread. If you are not too sure what it was, just have a wee look near the top of your screen and to the left. It does'nt say anything about minimum wage.

Anynama141

darkhorse wrote: »

I don't wish to sound patronizing, but would you and your three friends try and stick to the subject matter of the thread. If you are not too sure what it was, just have a wee look near the top of your screen and to the left. It does'nt say anything about minimum wage.

Do you think that austerity is a choice for Ireland?

Do you have an alternative?

Edit: I can only assume that in ignoring these questions you are conceding that it is not a choice, and that you have no alternative to offer.

darkhorse

Anynama141 wrote: »

Indeed. Core social welfare payments and old age pensions have not really been touched. Middle earners have been hit hard.

Fair play to ya. It only took you three minutes to read that, that amazing.

darkhorse

Anynama141 wrote: »

Are you (still?) suggesting that the Irish government has a choice about this?

Why don't ya ask this guy. He was great in opposition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjhxp-JJqDo&feature=player_detailpage

Anynama141

darkhorse wrote: »

Fair play to ya. It only took you three minutes to read that, that amazing.

Thanks. I'm sure nobody notices you dodging the key questions on this thread: is the policy really a choice, and if not, what is the alternative.

Keep posting sh!te though. Remember, you can fool some of them some of the time. Focus on that few.

K-9

Mod:The thread has been relatively civil recently, I'd prefer it remains that way and we have an informative thread, rather than taking snipes at each other, or trying to cheap point score.

I don't wish to sound patronising either, but restoring competitiveness is part (or considered by some) of the austerity programme. I do think we need to do that, but I don't think minimum wage should be the first option. Wage costs are coming down, we now should be looking at rents and energy costs.

Employers paying minimum wage have already had a 50% cut in Employer PRSI, maybe it is time to look at other costs rather hit employees again.

darkhorse

Anynama141 wrote: »

Darkhorse, do you think that austerity is a choice for Ireland?

Do you have an alternative?

I had. I, like many people, put in my submissions to government a couple of years ago. I guess I was one of many people whose idea did'nt receive any consideration. Probably would'nt have worked anyway.

morlock_

The way you take down the value of property is tax land.
The government would never do this because it's mainly the wealthy that own land, so they increase taxes on labour instead.

Having a tax on land means the land is better utilised because it will cost the owner more to keep it if he/she isn't using it productively.

In Latvia, they've kind of implemented such an idea.

A Tax rate of 1.5% on the value of of property.
Uncultivated agricultural land is subject to an additional rate of 1.5%.
Rates on residential property are 0.2%, 0.4% and 0.6% depending on the value.

That would substantially bring down the cost of living in Ireland if implemented but I won't hold my breath since Irish government clearly work for banking interests, not Irish people.

darkhorse

darkhorse wrote: »

I had. I, like many people, put in my submissions to government a couple of years ago. I guess I was one of many people whose idea did'nt receive any consideration. Probably would'nt have worked anyway.

Ya see, Anynama141, I am not dodging anything. I post my reply, and I have to wait for that reply to be published, as it were, so what can I say.

Anynama141

morlock_ wrote: »

The way you take down the value of property is tax land.
The government would never do this because it's mainly the wealthy that own land, so they increase taxes on labour instead.

Having a tax on land means the land is better utilised because it will cost the owner more to keep it if he/she isn't using it productively.

In Latvia, they've kind of implemented such an idea.

A Tax rate of 1.5% on the value of of property.
Uncultivated agricultural land is subject to an additional rate of 1.5%.
Rates on residential property are 0.2%, 0.4% and 0.6% depending on the value.

That would substantially bring down the cost of living in Ireland if implemented but I won't hold my breath since Irish government clearly work for banking interests, not Irish people.

Unfortunately this idea won't be helped by the hissy fit the broad left (plus Fianna Failure) have thrown over property tax - another sensible tax that works everywhere else.

darkhorse

Anynama141 wrote: »

Unfortunately this idea won't be helped by the hissy fit the broad left (plus Fianna Failure) have thrown over property tax - another sensible tax that works everywhere else.

When you say that it works everywhere else, what does that mean? Would ya ever hurry back to me, as Mrs darkhorse is calling me to go to bed.

Noreen1

Anynama141 wrote: »

Do you think that austerity is a choice for Ireland?

Do you have an alternative?

Edit: I can only assume that in ignoring these questions you are conceding that it is not a choice, and that you have no alternative to offer.

Why is that relevant?

A discussion on whether austerity is working, or not, has nothing to do with whether we have a choice in the matter.