How much is too much money?

southsiderosie

On the consultant thread, some posters couldn't believe that someone would turn down a job for 116,000/year. Others thought that expecting a high six-figure salary for a doctor is excessive.

This isn't the first time I've seen complaints (some would say begrudgery) like this on boards, especially when it involves salaries over 100K. I remember a few years ago a poster saying that nobody should make more than 100K, which I found absurd (and at the rate I am going, I will never in my lifetime make that much money).

Do you think there should there be some kind of limit on how much money people can make? While I think that some salaries are excessive (American CEOs who drive their companies into the ground come to mind), I don't believe in caps either (which seem kind of arbitrary). And frankly, I think a lot of the complaints about how much money people make in some fields are largely due to a complete lack of understanding about what goes into making that kind of money in the first place (years of foregone income for schooling, high demand/low supply, etc).

Is there such a thing as too much money?

LETHAL LADY

I don't get in or out of bed for less than three hundred and fifty euros.

P_1

Its a tough one tbh. On the one hand you want to have equality for all but on the other you don't want to stifle effort and innovation.

At the end of the day all you really need is food, shelter and security. Anything else is a bonus.

Caps on potential earnings are a dangerous road to travel down IMO

Montroseee

P_1 wrote: »

Its a tough one tbh. On the one hand you want to have equality for all but on the other you don't want to stifle effort and innovation.

At the end of the day all you really need is food, shelter and security. Anything else is a bonus.

Caps on potential earnings are a dangerous road to travel down IMO

Yes, you only have to look at France to see that.

BorneTobyWilde

LETHAL LADY wrote: »

I don't get in or out of bed for less than three hundred and fifty euros.

So it takes 350 to get you into bed
But catch is
Its takes 350 to get you out

Great business plan

Dwork

I have to earn 1.2 million a year to break even. Anything above that's a profit. 116k? Alright for a month, but that's about it. It depends on your circumstances. And yes, the tools are about to descend on me for my honesty. 116k is unimaginably huge to some. It was once to me. Now, it's just routine and nothing to get excited about. There's loads of others the same, but they'd never admit it, they'd crap on about how it's a "huge" sum of money etc etc. It isn't. It's peanuts. If you need 120K.

Montroseee

Dwork wrote: »

I have to earn 1.2 million a year to break even. Anything above that's a profit. 116k? Alright for a month, but that's about it. It depends on your circumstances. And yes, the tools are about to descend on me for my honesty. 116k is unimaginably huge to some. It was once to me. Now, it's just routine and nothing to get excited about. There's loads of others the same, but they'd never admit it, they'd crap on about how it's a "huge" sum of money etc etc. It isn't. It's peanuts. If you need 120K.

What do you do?

LETHAL LADY

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

So it takes 350 to get you into bed
But catch is
Its takes 350 to get you out

Great business plan

Thanks btw, now redundant tile shop.

candy-gal1

You can never have too much money imho, unless of course you resort to blowing some of it on drugs - not hash - cos youve no idea what else to buy/boredom, but yeah other than that there is no limit tbh.

P_1

P_1 wrote: »

Its a tough one tbh. On the one hand you want to have equality for all but on the other you don't want to stifle effort and innovation.

At the end of the day all you really need is food, shelter and security. Anything else is a bonus.

Caps on potential earnings are a dangerous road to travel down IMO

Caps are dangerous if they dissuade people from perusing a careerer that could be beneficial to themselves and those that career will serve (10,000km view).

The real issue is, what actually determines what a particular career position should earn!

I would advocate a cap for CEO (the chief of the company) earn no more than 10 X the average salary of the staff for example, so he in incentified to pay his staff more so that he benefits by them earning more rather than less!

joetoad

If I had 1500 free a month after paying mortgage, car loan, bills,foode I think that would be enough for me. A salary of 60,000 to 80,000 a year would do me just fine

P_1

Deleted User wrote: »

Caps are dangerous if they dissuade people from perusing a careerer that could be beneficial to themselves and those that career will serve (10,000km view).

The real issue is, what actually determines what a particular career position should earn!

I would advocate a cap for CEO (the chief of the company) earn no more than 10 X the average salary of the staff for example, so he in incentified to pay his staff more so that he benefits by them earning more rather than less!

That's a good idea, the only concern is that that could inflate prices and leave people effectively the same way but with more euros in the bank

Dwork

Montroseee wrote: »

What do you do?

I run my own business. 1.2 covers wages, insurance, blah blah blah. I have to make 3.5k a day to stay afloat. It gets interesting somtimes.

Phoebas

Montroseee wrote: »

What do you do?

Amateur spoofer.

BorneTobyWilde

Dwork wrote: »

I run my own business. 1.2 covers wages, insurance, blah blah blah. I have to make 3.5k a day to stay afloat. It gets interesting somtimes.

Then surely advertise it
Not keep it a secret
Should be proud of that
Not shady about it

Dwork

Phoebas wrote: »

Amateur spoofer.

Sigh. No. Not really. Like I said, the tools will come on with their "gtfo" etc. I'm too honest for my own good. I should go with the "100K? Madness, sack em all". I'd get less grief.

Montroseee

Dwork wrote: »

Sigh. No. Not really. Like I said, the tools will come on with their "gtfo" etc. I'm too honest for my own good. I should go with the "100K? Madness, sack em all". I'd get less grief.

What type of business do you run?

Dwork

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Then surely advertise it
Not keep it a secret
Should be proud of that
Not shady about it

I'm not shady? I work for Primark, Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, Toyota, etc etc. Too many students and not enough real business people on Boards. If you mention a large sum, everyone shouts bullsh1t. I don't get to keep it, I pay wages, taxes, the whole nine yards. I keep my wage, it's a company. If less ejits shouted "bullsh1t" and instead shouted "how?", Ireland might be a better place. Also, I'm a tiny, tiny business. I often wonder just how in touch with reality Boards is? To loads of people, a million a year is buttons. Ye do get that, right?

Montroseee

Dwork wrote: »

I'm not shady? I work for Primark, Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, Toyota, etc etc. Too many students and not enough real business people on Boards. If you mention a large sum, everyone shouts bullsh1t. I don't get to keep it, I pay wages, taxes, the whole nine yards. I keep my wage, it's a company. If less ejits shouted "bullsh1t" and instead shouted "how?", Ireland might be a better place. Also, I'm a tiny, tiny business. I often wonder just how in touch with reality Boards is? To loads of people, a million a year is buttons. Ye do get that, right?

Do you have a website?

gctest50

Dwork wrote: »

I run my own business. 1.2 covers wages, insurance, blah blah blah. I have to make 3.5k a day to stay afloat. It gets interesting somtimes.

This yoke might make it easier to see how quick it mounts up :

http://tobytripp.github.com/meeting-ticker/




.

fasttalkerchat

Anything over 80k you're going to give it away either now or when you die so its pointless really.

BorneTobyWilde

Dwork wrote: »

I'm not shady? I work for Primark, Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, Toyota, etc etc. Too many students and not enough real business people on Boards. If you mention a large sum, everyone shouts bullsh1t. I don't get to keep it, I pay wages, taxes, the whole nine yards. I keep my wage, it's a company. If less ejits shouted "bullsh1t" and instead shouted "how?", Ireland might be a better place. Also, I'm a tiny, tiny business. I often wonder just how in touch with reality Boards is? To loads of people, a million a year is buttons. Ye do get that, right?

Sounds like an online/ IT Business
?

fasttalkerchat

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Sounds like an online/ IT Business
?

I thought maintenance contractor or IT installation. Security are minimum wage now and advertising wouldn't be a one man band.

Montroseee

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Sounds like an online/ IT Business
?

Maybe transport? but we better stop speculating as its driving the thread off topic

Dwork

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Anything over 80k you're going to give it away either now or when you die so its pointless really.

I agree. The amount I get to keep is stupidly low for the effort involved. I often wonder if people, when they walk down the street, ever stop to ask, who owns the buildings they're walking past? Especially in Cities. You do realise that those huge blocks belong to someone. Ultimatly? Someone paid for them to be built, someone collects rent. My good friend owns Dundrum shopping center. Have a goo at it next time you go there, and have a giggle at me with my p1ssy little amateur hour business. Then have a goo at yourself. Then take the p1ss out of me.

joetoad

Sounds like an IT outsourcing company where they do a lot of work for companies behind the scenes like reports, in house database systems,accounts etc

P_1

P_1 wrote: »

That's a good idea, the only concern is that that could inflate prices and leave people effectively the same way but with more euros in the bank

Not really, it would reduce the difference between the top earners and the bottom earners, historically, the CEO's earned much less than they earn now (relative to their staff).

Dwork

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Sounds like an online/ IT Business
?

I'll be very frank here, I build the infrastructure for online businesses, amongst other things. They'd die if they earned the buttons I do. I have a friend who buys bulldozers. They cost close to 3/4 a million a piece. What he buys in a week would keep me for ten years. So I have no illusions as to how small I am. There's a lot of money floating around out there. It's just a question of perception. If youignore the fools who spout "you're a spoofer", you might get a better idea of the scale of the money in the world. And one man band? I feckin wish. I employ a lot of people. By my standards. i.e 10-15 every day. Which is again, small time and mickey mouse.

kiffer

Dwork wrote: »

I don't get to keep it, I pay wages, taxes, the whole nine yards. I keep my wage, it's a company.

Your company is the thing making 1.2m a year. For the purpose of "how much is too much" the OP is talking about your take home wage...

Stinicker

It depends how much are coke and hookers these days?

Dwork

kiffer wrote: »

Your company is the thing making 1.2m a year. For the purpose of "how much is too much" the OP is talking about your take home wage...

Good point and well put. 365K would be my top limit for anyone. If a grand a day isn't enough, you're living too high on the hog. I get it hard to think of too many people I would like to see earn more than 1k a day. Top surgeons maybe? Or Fund managers on comission? Loads do get more, much more. Are they worth it? Meh, sure that's capitalism. A footballer=20 surgeons. Go figure. I jacked in a €750.00 euro a day job to go out on my own. Was I worth €750.00 a day? I think I was. I made my Boss far more. And that's the bottom line.

wonski

Dwork wrote: »

I'm not shady? I work for Primark, Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, Toyota, etc etc. Too many students and not enough real business people on Boards. If you mention a large sum, everyone shouts bullsh1t. I don't get to keep it, I pay wages, taxes, the whole nine yards. I keep my wage, it's a company. If less ejits shouted "bullsh1t" and instead shouted "how?", Ireland might be a better place. Also, I'm a tiny, tiny business. I often wonder just how in touch with reality Boards is? To loads of people, a million a year is buttons. Ye do get that, right?

You broke some rules here...

Dwork

wonski wrote: »

You broke some rules here...

Oh No. Which ones?. Yawns.

BorneTobyWilde

wonski wrote: »

You broke some rules here...

I like freedom to express
Can't knock anyone for that

Montroseee

wonski wrote: »

You broke some rules here...

Maybe that is why he has done well...

The Dagda

Dwork wrote: »

Oh No. Which ones?. Yawns.

FFS you "have" a company that "makes" 1.2mill a year but you couldn't figure out that the OP is about personal salaries.

Yep that's trolling right there...

wonski

Dwork wrote: »

Oh No. Which ones?. Yawns.

You should know better than me.

BorneTobyWilde

I knew it had to be online/IT type business
Websites, Online shopping, online advertising stuff like that,
Needs to tick like a Swiss watch, Big money, Big players
Toyota. Aldi.........

wonski

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I knew it had to be online/IT type business
Websites, Online shopping, online advertising stuff like that,
Needs to tick like a Swiss watch, Big money, Big players
Toyota. Aldi.........

This bring the question - would these companies allow for this info to be posted on online forums by the contractors/suppliers?
Companies websites are allowed to do this if customer - be it Toyota, Aldi or Tesco - agreed. But company posting this info in such a way? Doubt it.

Anything is acceptable if it makes economic sense.. If people collectively give a fund manager one billion dollars to manage and he earns them a good return, then he is worth his massive salary.

opinion guy

I think the question asked by the OP depends on how many people depend on you really.
If you are a single person you might be happy with 30-40k or over. If you have 8 children and your parents are in a home 40k would be buttons.

Tis all relative

Galwayguy35

southsiderosie wrote: »

On the consultant thread, some posters couldn't believe that someone would turn down a job for 116,000/year. Others thought that expecting a high six-figure salary for a doctor is excessive.

This isn't the first time I've seen complaints (some would say begrudgery) like this on boards, especially when it involves salaries over 100K. I remember a few years ago a poster saying that nobody should make more than 100K, which I found absurd (and at the rate I am going, I will never in my lifetime make that much money).

Do you think there should there be some kind of limit on how much money people can make? While I think that some salaries are excessive (American CEOs who drive their companies into the ground come to mind), I don't believe in caps either (which seem kind of arbitrary). And frankly, I think a lot of the complaints about how much money people make in some fields are largely due to a complete lack of understanding about what goes into making that kind of money in the first place (years of foregone income for schooling, high demand/low supply, etc).

Is there such a thing as too much money?

Really?

What about bankers pay?

Do you think Richie Boucher was worth every cent that he received last year?

Three Seasons

I don't see why anyone else should have the right to say how much an employee for a private company should earn. That is the company's business. Not anyone else's. if they want to pay their cleaners 1 million per annum so what, they can choose how to spend their hard earned revenue how they wish.

sock puppet

Three Seasons wrote: »

I don't see why anyone else should have the right to say how much an employee for a private company should earn. That is the company's business. Not anyone else's. if they want to pay their cleaners 1 million per annum so what, they can choose how to spend their hard earned revenue how they wish.

Except that's not what happens at all. The owners of businesses don't actually have the power to decide on executive pay packages.

Suryavarman

Deleted User wrote: »

Caps are dangerous if they dissuade people from perusing a careerer that could be beneficial to themselves and those that career will serve (10,000km view).

The real issue is, what actually determines what a particular career position should earn!

I would advocate a cap for CEO (the chief of the company) earn no more than 10 X the average salary of the staff for example, so he in incentified to pay his staff more so that he benefits by them earning more rather than less!

They won't be incentivsed to pay their employees more. They'll just be incentivsed to relocate to a country that doesn't have that stupid law in place.

123 LC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l91ISfcuzDw

southsiderosie

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Really?

What about bankers pay?

Do you think Richie Boucher was worth every cent that he received last year?

Private banks should be able to set wages however they want. If they are taken over by the public, or being bailed out, I think they've lost that privilege. However, I think you would have a hard time finding seasoned managers who would agree to have a lot of interference with how they run things...which is exactly why a) bad banks/companies should be allowed to fail, rather than getting bailed out by the government, and b) no bank or company should be allowed to get so large that their failure presents a systemic risk to the rest of the economy.

KyussBishop

I think that there is a point, where the amount of money that can be earned, is not just no longer beneficial to society, but is detrimental.

Money buys political power and in general, influence over other people; people definitely should be rewarded (and handsomely) for work that provides significant benefit to society, but at some point the reenumeration can become excessive, or can be gained on the back of socially destructive actions (such as CEO's/directors looting companies), and thus there should be an upper-limit/cap on what can be earned.

100k is too low I would say, maybe even a million is too low, but I think a good starting rule of thumb (as someone already mentioned), would be that the wage of CEO's in a company, should be capped between 10-40x the lowest salary within the company, as at least then the gains are shared more equitably.


One of the big problems with excessive salaries though, is the political power it generates; I think this may be one of the biggest arguments in favour of caps, so that people don't earn such an obscene amount, to be able to gain undue influence over democracy (threatening to undermine it) or society.

When you look at the US, and the significant corruption/influence in politics generated through lobbying and the like, which runs off of truly enormous sums of money, I think that's a strong argument for setting caps in place so individuals can't gain that much access/influence/power (especially seeing the corrupt and unethical means used to generate a lot of that money, which is also an argument in itself).

It's not a topic/line-of-discussion I've looked at in great detail yet though, so there's probably a lot of room for fleshing out the range of arguments, as to why such caps may be a good idea.

southsiderosie

KyussBishop wrote: »

I think that there is a point, where the amount of money that can be earned, is not just no longer beneficial to society, but is detrimental.

Money buys political power and in general, influence over other people; people definitely should be rewarded (and handsomely) for work that provides significant benefit to society, but at some point the reenumeration can become excessive, or can be gained on the back of socially destructive actions (such as CEO's/directors looting companies), and thus there should be an upper-limit/cap on what can be earned.

100k is too low I would say, maybe even a million is too low, but I think a good starting rule of thumb (as someone already mentioned), would be that the wage of CEO's in a company, should be capped between 10-40x the lowest salary within the company, as at least then the gains are shared more equitably.


One of the big problems with excessive salaries though, is the political power it generates; I think this may be one of the biggest arguments in favour of caps, so that people don't earn such an obscene amount, to be able to gain undue influence over democracy (threatening to undermine it) or society.

When you look at the US, and the significant corruption/influence in politics generated through lobbying and the like, which runs off of truly enormous sums of money, I think that's a strong argument for setting caps in place so individuals can't gain that much access/influence/power (especially seeing the corrupt and unethical means used to generate a lot of that money, which is also an argument in itself).

It's not a topic/line-of-discussion I've looked at in great detail yet though, so there's probably a lot of room for fleshing out the range of arguments, as to why such caps may be a good idea.

Two points.

First, if CEOs loot companies, then the companies should be allowed to collapse. But that hasn't been the case. Stronger enforcement of anti-trust law over time might make companies, and in particular corporate boards, more watchful, since they would know that they could not merge their way out of trouble to the point where the government would have to step in to rescue them.

Second, there isn't actually a great deal of empirical evidence that links spending on elections to broader outcomes (individuals are somewhat different). The 2013 elections are a prime example: Karl Rove's group got $200 million in donations, and not only did Republicans fail to take the White House, they failed to take the Senate as well.

I think caps on lobbying make sense because they fuel the perception that the government is for sale, but in the case of the US, I think gerrymandering has had a much more pernicious effect on the Congress than money.

Miss Lockhart

I don't think the poll options offer a suitable option for me.

I think there is such a thing as earning too much money when being paid by the tax payer, and in general I think that €100k is a reasonable point to introduce higher taxes.

However, I think the levels of responsiblity and the standard of working conditions has to be taken into account. Currently I think that what is being offered is not enough compensation for the responsibility and conditions involved. I would like to see that addressed before cutting doctors' salaries.

Mr. Incognito

Let the free market decide.

That goes for banks that fail too.

Including bankers salaries which now would be a big fat nil