martin o neil for ireland?

Hank Scorpio

RodgersLFC wrote: »

Brian McDermott would be a good appointment I think.

I'd hate McDermott to be appointed, his whole demeanor never struck me as a good manager

Oranage2

Oranage2 wrote: »

What we need is Di canio, you'd have him giving people like harte and Doyle a slap if they cried over not getting picked.

Both have served Ireland very well. Harte wasnt giving out about not getting picked, but the fact that the manager wasnt even aware that he was Irish and he had a valid argument for saying he deserved a call up at the very least.
Doyle saved our arses in Kazakhstan and yet was dropped by text message. He deserves a bit better then that surely. Kilbane 110 caps and also dropped by text message.

Di Canio would provide great entertainment to the neutral with his antics but weve been enough of a circus over the years to put up with him on top of it. He'd have been found out at Swindon down the line too just as Roy Keane was eventually found out.

Jarrod

Chris Hughton, Dave O'Leary or Brian Kerr. Hughton being my first choice.

Hannibal

srfc19 wrote: »

Have you seen the budget/crowd level? The club is massively over reaching to stay in the top division. And a large factor in that is Martinez.

He is also the manager who kickstarted Swanseas recent success. Think he won manager of the year, the year he got them promoted from League One. Great manager.

You could say the same about Paul Jewell, he got Wigan promoted up two tiers and then kept them up in the Premier League twice plus a League Cup final appearance. He also got Bradford promoted to the PL and when Kerr and Staunton left he was a leading candidate both times, not saying I want him as our manager but it does put Martinez in perspective a wee bit.

I think its obvious Trapattoni will be leaving after the current cycle, hopefully it ends in Brazil. I do think that getting a manager that has experience at European level would be a massive advantage, out of the current candidates this leaves O'Neill, McCarthy and O'Leary out in front and no doubt the FAI will probably place Philippe Troussier at the top of their list again.

Two managers interest me and they are Bert van Marwijk and the soon to be unemployed Jupp Heynckes, both have excellent records wherever they've been. Another is also a certain Mr Eriksson, although these three managers aren't of Trapattoni's calibre if they're available at the right price they would certainly be a step up on the likes of Coyle, McDermott etc which would have us heading into the oblivion after Scotland, Wales and NI.

TheDoc

No thanks.

Over rated in my view, comes into clubs and brings their stock up for a short term period, invests terribly and then the club slides, left with financial troubles from poor investments and signings.

Remove the signings and you have a very mediocre manager, whose only relative success came in a lobsided league in Scotland.

International football, among football in general is changing. I'd genuinely like us to move away from getting into old , experienced managers. We have a serious rebuilding project on our hands that needs someone involved for a relatively long length of time to oversee it. So get someone in that wont cost a **** ton, that can do a good few years.

We have some players coming into the fray that can play football and are actual footballers. We need a coach that trusts his players, and encourages them to play and teach versatility in formations and tactics.

AKA, a ****ing young fella, and not an old foggy looking for his last pay cheque, but gets paraded as a top class manager for winning something in the 70's.

Trap wasn't a world class manager coming to us, has being found out horridly, and I feel smug for being pretty much spot on

FernandoTorres

TheDoc wrote: »

No thanks.

Over rated in my view, comes into clubs and brings their stock up for a short term period, invests terribly and then the club slides, left with financial troubles from poor investments and signings.

Remove the signings and you have a very mediocre manager, whose only relative success came in a lobsided league in Scotland.

International football, among football in general is changing. I'd genuinely like us to move away from getting into old , experienced managers. We have a serious rebuilding project on our hands that needs someone involved for a relatively long length of time to oversee it. So get someone in that wont cost a **** ton, that can do a good few years.

We have some players coming into the fray that can play football and are actual footballers. We need a coach that trusts his players, and encourages them to play and teach versatility in formations and tactics.

AKA, a ****ing young fella, and not an old foggy looking for his last pay cheque, but gets paraded as a top class manager for winning something in the 70's.

Trap wasn't a world class manager coming to us, has being found out horridly, and I feel smug for being pretty much spot on

What a load of b****cks! While I'm not the biggest fan of everything Trap has done for Ireland he is one of the most successful managers ever in the game and deserves respect. The fact that you say he hasn't done anything since the 70s says it all.

Also why do you care how much the manager costs? You can be sure that anything the FAI save won't be pumped into the domestic game anyway! I think experience goes an awful long way in international management. Very few young coaches are successful.

I do agree on your assessment of MON. Not good enough.

markesmith

Some of the posts on this thread are an absolute joke. Absolutely everyone in football is overrated according to some of you.

Come back when you have won the League Cup twice with Leicester, got to a UEFA Cup Final with Celtic, and had Villa fans daring to dream, nudging on the top 4.

Until then you're just another armchair sergeant, and your post count is no indication of the wisdom in your opinions. O'Neill's done a great job, and can look back with pride at what he's achieved.

I swear, some men just want to watch the world burn!

Jarrod

markesmith wrote: »

Some of the posts on this thread are an absolute joke. Absolutely everyone in football is overrated according to some of you.

Come back when you have won the League Cup twice with Leicester, got to a UEFA Cup Final with Celtic, and had Villa fans daring to dream, nudging on the top 4.

Until then you're just another armchair sergeant, and your post count is no indication of the wisdom in your opinions. O'Neill's done a great job, and can look back with pride at what he's achieved.

I swear, some men just want to watch the world burn!

Well this certainly fits into the category of 'an absolute joke.' The 'come back when you've done x,y or z' argument is the biggest load of nonsense I've ever heard. It means nothing. Are people only allowed to judge those less successful than them now? If so then surely this entire soccer forum is pointless.

Also, nudging on the top 4? Seriously? The man has had a decent career but come on. He spent huge money at Villa and didn't win a thing. He did well at Celtic and Leicester but he's hardly a great manager.

Coillte_Bhoy

TheDoc wrote: »

No thanks.

Over rated in my view, comes into clubs and brings their stock up for a short term period, invests terribly and then the club slides, left with financial troubles from poor investments and signings.

Remove the signings and you have a very mediocre manager, whose only relative success came in a lobsided league in Scotland.

International football, among football in general is changing. I'd genuinely like us to move away from getting into old , experienced managers. We have a serious rebuilding project on our hands that needs someone involved for a relatively long length of time to oversee it. So get someone in that wont cost a **** ton, that can do a good few years.

We have some players coming into the fray that can play football and are actual footballers. We need a coach that trusts his players, and encourages them to play and teach versatility in formations and tactics.

AKA, a ****ing young fella, and not an old foggy looking for his last pay cheque, but gets paraded as a top class manager for winning something in the 70's.

Trap wasn't a world class manager coming to us, has being found out horridly, and I feel smug for being pretty much spot on

So just ignore his fine European record with Celtic then, eh?

markesmith

Jarrod wrote: »

Well this certainly fits into the category of 'an absolute joke.' The 'come back when you've done x,y or z' argument is the biggest load of nonsense I've ever heard. It means nothing. Are people only allowed to judge those less successful than them now? If so then surely this entire soccer forum is pointless.

Also, nudging on the top 4? Seriously? The man has had a decent career but come on. He spent huge money at Villa and didn't win a thing. He did well at Celtic and Leicester but he's hardly a great manager.

What is your definition of a great manager? Ferguson, Mourinho, Guardiola...after that is there a second tier? Was O'Neill ever a *good* manager?

As for Villa, didn't he get three 6th-place finishes? And when he was spending huge money at Villa, what were Liverpool, Chelsea, United and my beloved Spurs doing? Villa were dicing with relegation before he took over.

O'Neill did a mighty job with Leicester, overturned Rangers' dominance while at Celtic, and got Aston Villa fans believing again. He failed at Sunderland, but he can still look back with pride and I think he'd be a fantastic choice for the Ireland job.

Dempsey

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

So just ignore his fine European record with Celtic then, eh?

If you want express an Eamon Dunphy style opinion, you have to ignore these things! :rolleyes:

COYVB

markesmith wrote: »

And when he was spending huge money at Villa, what were Liverpool, Chelsea, United and my beloved Spurs doing?

They were all spending less money

Jarrod

markesmith wrote: »

What is your definition of a great manager? Ferguson, Mourinho, Guardiola...after that is there a second tier? Was O'Neill ever a *good* manager?

As for Villa, didn't he get three 6th-place finishes? And when he was spending huge money at Villa, what were Liverpool, Chelsea, United and my beloved Spurs doing? Villa were dicing with relegation before he took over.

O'Neill did a mighty job with Leicester, overturned Rangers' dominance while at Celtic, and got Aston Villa fans believing again. He failed at Sunderland, but he can still look back with pride and I think he'd be a fantastic choice for the Ireland job.

I'm not going to try to define what a 'great manager' is but suffice to say there are very few of them at the minute and I stick by what I said in that O'Neill isn't one. Was he ever a good manager? Yes.

Yes, he got 6th place three years running. As for what the other clubs mentioned, I'm pretty sure all bar Liverpool actually won something in that time and all of them qualified for the Champions League at least once.

We all know he did a good job at Leicester and had success at Celtic but I don't think he'd be a 'fantastic choice'. I don't think he'd be a disaster by the way but I think a lot of people see him as some sort of miracle worker when frankly, he's not.

Jarrod

COYVB wrote: »

They were all spending less money

Winning things or qualifying for the Champions League.

COYVB

Jarrod wrote: »

Winning things or qualifying for the Champions League.

All the while spending less money.

Diabhal Beag

There's only one man I can trust with a task as important as the Ireland gaffer role.

The stars say "Hire Domenech".

markesmith

COYVB wrote: »

They were all spending less money

I'd say Chelsea were spending a lot more than Villa 2004-2008...

Gbear

A ****e manager for a ****e team.


Why not?

Ganymede Glow

A lot of people telling us who's not good enough. Start putting some names forward because I'd like to know who is?

COYVB

markesmith wrote: »

I'd say Chelsea were spending a lot more than Villa 2004-2008...

Martin O'Neill wasn't Villa manager in 2004. Only City outspent Villa during MON's time at the club afaik

Augmerson

O'Neill spent 82 million pounds - that's net spend, during his tenure at Villa. Now, I'm not 100% about my maths but I reckon that's not far off. Seems about right for a team trying to break into Champions League football.

Kinski

Lennonist wrote: »

Well you can take this with a pinch of salt; There was a time (during his time at Celtic) when he was being linked with all the big jobs in England. Man United were linked with him, but Ferguson never left his job. He was actually offered the Leeds job - which was a big job at the time - before he went to Celtic. Liverpool definitely chased him and wanted him, he turned them down for family reasons - his wife was ill at the time.

All of that is a few years ago

A few years ago...in fantasy land. He was linked with all the top jobs in England, by the ever-reliable, never-ever-talking bollocks backpages.

Liverpool never wanted O'Neill; their top two choices for manager after Houllier left were Benitez and Mourinho (and O'Neill's name didn't even feature on the long-list of contenders, unlike such stellar figures as *erm* Alan Curbishly). Chelsea had managerial vacancies in 2004 and 2007; O'Neill was considered for neither (Spurs appointed new managers in those years too; I don't recall O'Neill figuring as a contender, but I'm less sure on this one.) Nevertheless, between them, two top jobs in England were available three times during O'Neill's "golden" period, and he didn't get a look in.

Leeds were in freefall by the time the hated Peter Risdale (credited with running the club into the ground) approached O'Neill (they had mighty Venables at the time.)

In fact, the only major job O'Neill appears to have been a serious candidate for was England; the interview panel apparently heard enough when O'Neill responded to a question about the FA's youth set-up by telling them he wanted to be senior manager and didn't care about the youth system.

COYVB

Augmerson wrote: »

O'Neill spent 82 million pounds - that's net spend, during his tenure at Villa. Now, I'm not 100% about my maths but I reckon that's not far off. Seems about right for a team trying to break into Champions League football.

I believe his total expenditure at the club in his four years, with silly wages included, was in excess of a quarter of a billion pounds.

Dempsey

MON's idea of youth development was giving injury time minutes to u21 players

COYVB wrote: »

I believe his total expenditure at the club in his four years, with silly wages included, was in excess of a quarter of a billion pounds.

Guesswork

COYVB

Dempsey wrote: »

MON's idea of youth development was giving injury time minutes to u21 players



Guesswork

It's not actually. All the club's books are available now from his tenure in charge if you care to check them out

Augmerson

COYVB wrote: »

I believe his total expenditure at the club in his four years, with silly wages included, was in excess of a quarter of a billion pounds.

Sounds about right for that era of the PL. You could look at many other clubs, clubs that weren't even challenging for CL football, and they were spending in that region of money. The EPL is serious money.

I don't think that MON was responsible for the expenditure of a quarter of a billion pounds though - he wasn't responsible for wages and contracts afaik. Managers don't sign up contracts or offer clubs money for players although I do understand that they are involved in that process. Manager says he wants a player to the chairman or board and they get on that. Isn't that how it works?

Neil3030

Augmerson wrote: »

Sounds about right for that era of the PL. You could look at many other clubs, clubs that weren't even challenging for CL football, and they were spending in that region of money. The EPL is serious money.

I don't think that MON was responsible for the expenditure of a quarter of a billion pounds though - he wasn't responsible for wages and contracts afaik. Managers don't sign up contracts or offer clubs money for players although I do understand that they are involved in that process. Manager says he wants a player to the chairman or board and they get on that. Isn't that how it works?

MON had complete control over transfer and contract negotiations.

markesmith

If you inherit a squad that just avoided relegation, you obviously have to spend to drag them up the table...

COYVB

markesmith wrote: »

If you inherit a squad that just avoided relegation, you obviously have to spend to drag them up the table...

Look at the circumstances around the club that particular season though. It tells a very different story than the table suggests

markesmith

COYVB wrote: »

Look at the circumstances around the club that particular season though. It tells a very different story than the table suggests

One could say the same about Sunderland this season...club captain and main striker injured to end of season; much-admired new winger letting everyone down with his form; a squad inherited from Steve Bruce that was a bit unbalanced...

COYVB

markesmith wrote: »

One could say the same about Sunderland this season...club captain and main striker injured to end of season; much-admired new winger letting everyone down with his form; a squad inherited from Steve Bruce that was a bit unbalanced...

Except that's absolutely nothing like Villa in 2005/2006

markesmith

COYVB wrote: »

Except that's absolutely nothing like Villa in 2005/2006

Neither club were in a good place when he joined

COYVB

markesmith wrote: »

Neither club were in a good place when he joined

I never said that was the point I was making. I said Villa weren't in as bad a spot, in terms of players available, as the league table suggested at the end of the previous season. It was a position that was brought on in part by some of the worst back room bickering at a premiership team I can remember. Chairman getting players to write anonymous letters to local newspapers about the manager is one thing that sticks out

djPSB

Never rated O'Neil as highly as others did.

Especially when it came to his use of a transfer budget.

But we're Ireland, and beggars cannot be choosers. O' Neil would be a good appointment.

Good knowledge of the players available, tactically okay and a pretty good motivator.

Zeek12

djPSB wrote: »

But we're Ireland, and beggars cannot be choosers. O' Neil would be a good appointment.

Good knowledge of the players available, tactically okay and a pretty good motivator.

Yeah. I'd agree with those points.
O'Neill does have his faults. But let's be honest, he's probably the best of a fairly poor choice of options for our next manager. I think he's definitely a better bet than the much-hyped Brian McDermott, who tbh is still a bit of a rookie. But we don't even know if O'Neill would even want to take it yet. Plus most likely the FAI will bottle it and won't change manager at least until this qualification series is finished. By then, O'Neill could well be in another club job:eek: